http://news.yahoo.com/supreme-court-hear-case-brought-white-student-claims-112510107.html
QuoteSupporters of affirmative action fear that the Supreme Court could curtail or further restrict the use of race-conscious admissions policies at public universities.
On Wednesday, all eyes will be on Justice Anthony Kennedy, whose vote is considered pivotal in the case brought by a white Texan who has sued the University of Texas at Austin, claiming that she was denied admission to the school in 2008 because of her race. Abigail Fisher, who has since graduated from Louisiana State University, said she was subject to unequal treatment in violation of the 14th Amendment.
"I was taught from the time I was a little girl that any kind of discrimination was wrong, and for an institution of higher learning to act this way makes no sense to me," Fisher said in an interview clip posted on the website of the Project on Fair Representation, a legal defense foundation that's providing her with legal representation.
On the other side are lawyers for the University of Texas, who argue that, like many other universities, UT seeks to assemble a class that is diverse in innumerable ways -- including race -- and that "race is just one of many characteristics that form the mosaic presented by an applicant's file."
More than 90 friend of the court briefs have been filed in the case, with the Obama administration weighing in favor of the university. Others, who support Fisher, argue that diversity can be achieved through race-neutral programs, and that race-preferential admissions policies can do more harm than good.
"What's at issue is: (1) whether it will remain permissible to consider race in an attempt to ensure that higher level education remains integrated; and (2) whether universities or the court are going to be the ones to determine what academic diversity consists of," said David D. Cole, a professor at Georgetown Law, who believes UT's plan should be upheld.
It was only recently, in 2003, that the Supreme Court narrowly upheld the limited use of race in public university admissions policies in Grutter v. Bollinger. The five-four opinion was written by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who said that diversity was a compelling government interest. But O'Connor has since retired from the high court, and has been replaced by Justice Samuel Alito, who is more skeptical of race-conscious admissions preferences.
In 1997, the Texas legislature passed the "Top 10 Percent Law," which mandates that Texas high school seniors in the top 10 percent of their class be automatically admitted to any Texas state university. But after the Grutter decision came down, another policy was added that allows the school to consider race among several other factors for admission. Fisher did not qualify for automatic admission, and was forced to compete with other non-top-10-percent state applicants. She said she was denied admission, even though her academic credentials exceeded those of some of the admitted minority candidates.
The University of Texas, which was racially segregated during the first 70 years of its existence, argues that its current program exemplifies the type of plan the Supreme Court allowed in Grutter v. Bollinger: "Race is only one modest factor among many others weighed; it is considered only in an individualized and contextual way that examines the student in their totality."
But lawyers for Fisher said that the top 10 percent plan had made UT one of the most diverse public universities in the nation, and that the school did not need to overlay the successful race-neutral program with another one that considered race. Furthermore, they said that the school is working toward an impermissible goal of using race in admissions to mirror the demographics of Texas, which they said amounted to "racial balancing."
While Fisher's lawyers argue that Grutter should be clarified or even overturned, supporters of UT's program take solace in Kennedy's opinion in Grutter. He ruled against the University of Michigan Law School program named in that case but said, "There is no constitutional objection to the goal of considering race as one modest factor among many others to achieve diversity, but an educational institution must ensure, through sufficient procedures, that each applicant receives individual consideration and that race does not become a predominant factor in the admissions decision making."
Despite those words, Kennedy has never -- in his entire career on the bench -- voted in favor of racial preferences.
"That fact makes it hard to predict how Justice Kennedy will address this plan," said Cole. "If any plan would satisfy Justice Kennedy, it would seem that this one would because the university formulated its plan to meet the specific objections that Justice Kennedy had to the Michigan affirmative action plan."
Justice Elena Kagan will not participate in the case, because she dealt with it in her previous position as solicitor general.
Lawyers for Fortune 100 companies filed a friend of the court brief on behalf of the UT, arguing that those who have been educated in a diverse setting are "better equipped to understand a wider variety of consumer needs" and are "likely to generate a more positive work environment by decreasing incidents of discrimination and stereotyping."
Even the National Association of Basketball coaches said in briefs, "Our student athletes, and all of the students who attend our institutions, receive the best education when they are able to interact with others within a university community that is broadly diverse across its entire scope."
Filing on behalf of Abigail Fisher, three members of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights point to empirical evidence that they said shows that race-preferential admissions policies do more harm than good. "If this research is right," argued lawyers for commission members Gail Heriot, Peter Kirsanow and Todd Gaziano, "We now have fewer minority science and engineering graduates than we would have under race-neutral admissions policies."
There are six states that have laws banning the use of affirmative action in public universities (Arizona, Michigan, Nebraska, Washington, California and Florida, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures). The University of California has filed a brief arguing that its inability to consider race has hurt the school's diversity. The university said it has experimented with different strategies to address underreprestend minority student populations, but that these measures have enjoyed only "limited success," and that the school, particularly, in its most highly ranked campuses, has not been able to reverse a decline in minority admissions and enrollment.
A decision in the current case, likely to come down sometime in early 2012, could have implications for private institutions that receive federal funding, as well as hiring decisions in public institutions.
Well, that's one way to take care of those student loans.
Kagan's recusing herself so for affirmative action supporters realistic best case scenario is 4-4 decision (or just saying the student lacks standing, which is kind of a bullshit move). Could be a huge decision. But both sides say they don't want to overturn the last major affirmative action decision (ten years ago) so affirmative action could be gutted without being made illegal.
Study more and party less, you stupid bitch. It's not that hard to get into UT Austin.
Yeah if I can get in anybody can.
This is sort of ridiculous anyway. Race is like the ninth tie breaker in UT admissions.
Poor girl, affirmative action has sentenced her to a lifetime of 6-3 football games.
Quote from: Valmy on October 10, 2012, 11:29:59 PM
This is sort of ridiculous anyway. Race is like the ninth tie breaker in UT admissions.
Perhaps, though I think it gets at a key side effect problem of these quotas/policies.
Not reading stuff. But surely the fact that non-ethnic students will be pushed aside is the whole idea of affirmative action? Otherwise it seems pointless.
Quote from: The Brain on October 11, 2012, 02:10:48 PM
Not reading stuff. But surely the fact that non-ethnic students will be pushed aside is the whole idea of affirmative action? Otherwise it seems pointless.
Sure but for how long do current/future non-ethnic students have to get handicapped by that?
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 02:12:29 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 11, 2012, 02:10:48 PM
Not reading stuff. But surely the fact that non-ethnic students will be pushed aside is the whole idea of affirmative action? Otherwise it seems pointless.
Sure but for how long do current/future non-ethnic students have to get handicapped by that?
Until affirmative action stops?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 10, 2012, 11:38:15 PM
Poor girl, affirmative action has sentenced her to a lifetime of 6-3 football games.
:lol:
LSU seems like a pretty fun school to have to settle for if you don't get your first choice.
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 02:15:24 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 10, 2012, 11:38:15 PM
Poor girl, affirmative action has sentenced her to a lifetime of 6-3 football games.
:lol:
LSU seems like a pretty fun school to have to settle for if you don't get your first choice.
No shit. Then again, it's a much more stable conference.
That's not saying much.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 02:27:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 02:15:24 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 10, 2012, 11:38:15 PM
Poor girl, affirmative action has sentenced her to a lifetime of 6-3 football games.
:lol:
LSU seems like a pretty fun school to have to settle for if you don't get your first choice.
No shit. Then again, it's a much more stable conference.
Elaborate.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 02:27:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 02:15:24 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 10, 2012, 11:38:15 PM
Poor girl, affirmative action has sentenced her to a lifetime of 6-3 football games.
:lol:
LSU seems like a pretty fun school to have to settle for if you don't get your first choice.
No shit. Then again, it's a much more stable conference.
:bewaregrumbler:
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 02:15:24 PM
:lol:
LSU seems like a pretty fun school to have to settle for if you don't get your first choice.
It isn't bad at all. I have a couple buddies who went to LSU after high school and had a blast.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on October 11, 2012, 02:51:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 02:15:24 PM
:lol:
LSU seems like a pretty fun school to have to settle for if you don't get your first choice.
It isn't bad at all. I have a couple buddies who went to LSU after high school and had a blast.
I swung through their campus in August when I need to kill some time before a flight home. Their fall term had not yet started but there was plenty of social activity going on. Made me miss college (even more than I miss it every day of my life) and lament the fact that I didn't go to a 'fun' school.
I mean, I had a blast at Delaware and all but I always felt like I was missing out on some things.
UT is poon city. Young healthy Texas girls with fine asses in cowboy boots.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2012, 03:43:23 PM
UT is poon city. Young healthy Texas girls with fine asses in cowboy boots.
No shit man the ladies here are amazing.
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2012, 03:48:39 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2012, 03:43:23 PM
UT is poon city. Young healthy Texas girls with fine asses in cowboy boots.
No shit man the ladies here are amazing.
Too bad Austin itself is a city full of fruit loops.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2012, 03:50:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2012, 03:48:39 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2012, 03:43:23 PM
UT is poon city. Young healthy Texas girls with fine asses in cowboy boots.
No shit man the ladies here are amazing.
Too bad Austin itself is a city full of fruit loops.
Sounds like Boulder.
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 03:56:29 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2012, 03:50:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2012, 03:48:39 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2012, 03:43:23 PM
UT is poon city. Young healthy Texas girls with fine asses in cowboy boots.
No shit man the ladies here are amazing.
Too bad Austin itself is a city full of fruit loops.
Sounds like Boulder.
A giant Yellow Springs Ohio. Full of Meri's praying to trees and shit.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2012, 03:50:05 PM
Too bad Austin itself is a city full of fruit loops.
Yeah but they are fun fruitloops. People here are laid back and friendly which is how I like it, nobody here gives you any shit.
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 03:56:29 PM
Sounds like Boulder.
Not really. People in Boulder try way too hard. Nobody in Austin tries hard.
One of the most impressive things to me about Austin was the presence of non fat Mexican chicks.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 02:12:29 PMSure but for how long do current/future non-ethnic students have to get handicapped by that?
This is classic garbo stuff. You made it through with affirmative action in your favour, time to slam that door behind you :lol:
I feel I got into my university despite the idiot affirmative action program; though thinking back on it it wasn't an idiotic policy and I might actually have benefited from it in the end. :cool:
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2012, 04:28:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 02:12:29 PMSure but for how long do current/future non-ethnic students have to get handicapped by that?
This is classic garbo stuff. You made it through with affirmative action in your favour, time to slam that door behind you :lol:
Actually I never thought it was particularly fair when I was doing it either - but why would I turn down a handout? :cool:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2012, 04:28:05 PM
One of the most impressive things to me about Austin was the presence of non fat Mexican chicks.
Pricks up ears, do tell more.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2012, 04:28:05 PM
One of the most impressive things to me about Austin was the presence of non fat Mexican chicks.
Yeah Latinas are wonderful when they take care of themselves. They dress wonderfully to. I dated some when I was dating but the ones I dated were completely nutty people.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 04:45:36 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2012, 04:28:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 02:12:29 PMSure but for how long do current/future non-ethnic students have to get handicapped by that?
This is classic garbo stuff. You made it through with affirmative action in your favour, time to slam that door behind you :lol:
Actually I never thought it was particularly fair when I was doing it either - but why would I turn down a handout? :cool:
Heh. I can relate to that. Back when I was in college, full-time college students could still get a Social Security survivor's check through age 21. I always had felt that wasn't a proper use of Social Security funds, but did I turn down the money? Heck, no.
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2012, 05:03:01 PM
Yeah Latinas are wonderful when they take care of themselves. They dress wonderfully to. I dated some when I was dating but the ones I dated were completely nutty people.
Comes with the territory.
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2012, 05:03:01 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2012, 04:28:05 PM
One of the most impressive things to me about Austin was the presence of non fat Mexican chicks.
Yeah Latinas are wonderful when they take care of themselves. They dress wonderfully to. I dated some when I was dating but the ones I dated were completely nutty people.
:wub: wonderful squared, but all let down by one word. :(
:rolleyes:
Quote from: katmai on October 11, 2012, 06:10:32 PM
:rolleyes:
:unsure:
Oh and when did you nick my shtick ? <_<
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2012, 05:03:01 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2012, 04:28:05 PM
One of the most impressive things to me about Austin was the presence of non fat Mexican chicks.
Yeah Latinas are wonderful when they take care of themselves. They dress wonderfully to. I dated some when I was dating but the ones I dated were completely nutty people.
:wub: wonderful squared, but all let down by one word. :(
It's true, unfortunately.
And the worse part is you're not only dating a nutty Latino chick, but you're dating her entire nutty family straight from the get-go.
Plus, you'll have to buy the Lemon Pledge.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 08:02:37 PM
And the worse part is you're not only dating a nutty Latino chick, but you're dating her entire nutty family straight from the get-go.
Helps to have them on another continent.
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 08:05:50 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 08:02:37 PM
And the worse part is you're not only dating a nutty Latino chick, but you're dating her entire nutty family straight from the get-go.
Helps to have them on another continent.
lol, yeah, you lucked out: not everybody's so lucky. My friend wound up meeting his girl's two brothers, sister and Mom before the first date. High maintenance Peruvians.
I bet the food was good at least. In between all the screaming.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2012, 08:08:57 PM
I bet the food was good at least. In between all the screaming.
Ceviche... :mmm:
Quote from: dps on October 11, 2012, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 04:45:36 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2012, 04:28:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 02:12:29 PMSure but for how long do current/future non-ethnic students have to get handicapped by that?
This is classic garbo stuff. You made it through with affirmative action in your favour, time to slam that door behind you :lol:
Actually I never thought it was particularly fair when I was doing it either - but why would I turn down a handout? :cool:
Heh. I can relate to that. Back when I was in college, full-time college students could still get a Social Security survivor's check through age 21. I always had felt that wasn't a proper use of Social Security funds, but did I turn down the money? Heck, no.
Whereas I've never availed myself of direct government assistance. Funny world. :P
(Unless you count IBR, but that's really recent and arguably doesn't count, since I accidentally double-paid my student loan bills this month, the first month my reduced payment kicked in. :grr: )
Affirmitive action is a crazy and broken idea.
The only discrimination should be wealth based, not race.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2012, 08:04:20 PM
Plus, you'll have to buy the Lemon Pledge.
You mean Fabuloso, don't you?
Looks like the Court kinda-sorta upheld affirmative action in this case. They reversed the lower court in this case, but only for an incorrect application of the standard required. However, they may have done so only because the issue of reversing an earlier decision allowing affirmative action wasn't squarely before them (at least Scalia said that this was the only reason that he did not vote to reverse the earlier case - and Thomas in a concurrence said that he would also overrule the earlier case). It's possible that the Court's formulation of the "correct" standard may make affirmative action programs more difficult, but it looks like they're not per se invalid.
The decision was 7-1, BTW. Ginsberg dissented.
So many cases not going 5-4 recently. :ph34r:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 24, 2013, 09:47:58 AM
So many cases not going 5-4 recently. :ph34r:
The two other cases decided today went 5-4 (w/ the conservatives in the majority), so I don't think you need to worry that the Court is becoming unduly cooperative. :P
Quote from: Ideologue on October 13, 2012, 10:03:11 PM
Quote from: dps on October 11, 2012, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 04:45:36 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2012, 04:28:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 02:12:29 PMSure but for how long do current/future non-ethnic students have to get handicapped by that?
This is classic garbo stuff. You made it through with affirmative action in your favour, time to slam that door behind you :lol:
Actually I never thought it was particularly fair when I was doing it either - but why would I turn down a handout? :cool:
Heh. I can relate to that. Back when I was in college, full-time college students could still get a Social Security survivor's check through age 21. I always had felt that wasn't a proper use of Social Security funds, but did I turn down the money? Heck, no.
Whereas I've never availed myself of direct government assistance. Funny world. :P
(Unless you count IBR, but that's really recent and arguably doesn't count, since I accidentally double-paid my student loan bills this month, the first month my reduced payment kicked in. :grr: )
Technically, it wasn't government assistance; it was survivor's benefits. It wasn't need-based.
I should have gone to college.
Quote from: Siege on June 25, 2013, 01:19:06 PM
I should have gone to college.
Aren't you still eligible on the GI Bill or whatever they call it now?
Siege would be happier going to junior high.
Quote from: Caliga on June 25, 2013, 01:25:53 PM
Aren't you still eligible on the GI Bill or whatever they call it now?
Which one? Ours or the IDFs? He's on both rosters.