QuoteBin Laden's last stand: In final months, terrorist leader worried about his legacy
www.washingtonpost.com
A few months before Osama bin Laden's death, Web sites linked to al-Qaeda ran excited commentary about a proposed new killing machine dubbed the "human lawn mower." The idea was to attach rotating blades to the front of a pickup truck and drive the contraption into crowds.
While some jihadists admired the idea, one graying veteran of the terrorist movement took a stand against it. That was bin Laden himself, by then living out his twilight years in a Pakistani villa with ample time to think about his legacy. The man who famously ordered jetliners flown into skyscrapers drew the line at cutting down humans like weeds.
"He was upset about it," said a former U.S. intelligence official who viewed bin Laden's writings on the subject, part of a trove of documents seized from the terrorist's compound in Pakistan a year ago this week. "He felt it conflicted with his vision for what he wanted al-Qaeda to be."
Bin Laden's chances of trying to remake al-Qaeda's image ended abruptly when Navy SEALs kicked in the door of his Pakistani hideout. But in the year since his death, U.S. officials have gained a deeper understanding of the man, his internal struggles and his plans for the terrorist group he co-founded.
Although some insights from the documents have been revealed over the past year, new excerpts show the extent of bin Laden's obsession with ideological purity as he sought to manage the group's demoralized and scattered networks in his final years. They show him seeking to reassert control over factions of loosely affiliated jihadists from Yemen to Somalia, as well as independent actors whom he believed had sullied al-Qaeda's reputation and muddied its central message.
The new details about bin Laden's final months were provided in interviews with current and former U.S. officials — several of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to provide assessments of documents that are not yet public — as well as a pair of new books that quote extensively from the documents recovered from computer equipment seized during the May 2 raid.
Bin Laden emerges from these accounts as a chief executive fully engaged in the group's myriad crises, grappling with financial problems, recruitment, rebellious field managers and sudden staff vacancies resulting from the unrelenting U.S. drone campaign. In some memos he worried about his own security, and in others he fretted about missing a huge potential marketing opportunity: the Arab Spring, with its millions of street revolutionaries looking to reshape politics in the Middle East.
Reining in attacks
The Saudi who built the world's first truly global jihadist movement is viewed as distracted at times by mundane details, such as which crops should be planted by al-Shabab allies in Somalia. He was coolly cordial with his former partner Ayman al-Zawahiri, and increasingly drawn to the ideas of a younger lieutenant who possessed a firmer grasp of the power of the Internet and an ambition to modernize al-Qaeda's message.
The new deputy, Libyan-born Atiyah Abd al-Rahman, a veteran of Algeria's brutal Muslim-against-Muslim violence in the 1990s, emerged in bin Laden's final year as a key advocate for reining in al-Qaeda-inspired carnage in Iraq and other Middle Eastern lands.
With bin Laden's support, Atiyah, as the aide is informally known, began trying to codify rules of behavior for al-Qaeda and its affiliates, warning that killings of innocent Muslims would hurt the organization and probably violate sharia, or Islamic law. The killing of Americans — including noncombatants — would meanwhile remain permissible, even obligatory. Bin Laden's aversion to the "human lawn mower" was noted last year in a report on ProPublica's Web site.
"To the end, Atiyah kept trying to rein in attacks inside the Middle East," said Jarret Brachman, an author and consultant on al-Qaeda to U.S. government agencies. "Both he and bin Laden remained rabid in their hatred for the West. But they felt that attacks within Muslim countries were bad for their public image."
Among the documents seized in the raid were thousands of electronic memos and missives that captured conversations between bin Laden and his deputies around the world, U.S. officials say. Because the security-conscious bin Laden had no Internet connection, the documents were hand-delivered by couriers over circuits that would require up to a month to complete.
Despite bin Laden's physical isolation, the documents show him as a hands-on manager who participated in the terrorist group's operational planning and strategic thinking while also giving orders and advice to field operatives scattered worldwide. The exchanges were described in interviews, as well as in new books, including "Manhunt," by Peter L. Bergen, and "Hunting in the Shadows: The Pursuit of al Qa'ida After 9/11," by Seth G. Jones.
"He was not a recluse; he was the CEO of a global terrorist organization," said Bruce Riedel, a former CIA counterterrorism official and White House adviser on terrorist groups. "He was receiving communications from al-Qaeda's operatives literally around the world, and he was instructing them to carry out acts of terror."
But bin Laden was a weakened leader, presiding over a group that had lost scores of key operatives to U.S. drone strikes while being pursued around the world. Increasingly, bin Laden's musings about future terrorist strikes took on a fanciful air, given the group's dwindling resources. Occasionally his talk of bold attacks was met with shrugs and skepticism, said one senior U.S. counterterrorism official familiar with the documents.
"It was a classic headquarters-vs.-field mentality," the official said. "Headquarters thinks it knows better and instructs the field to do something, and the field manager says, 'Boss, you don't know what kind of stress we're under.' "
Common cause
Among those offering advice to bin Laden was Atiyah, a rising star within al-Qaeda's upper echelon who helped engineer the group's successful suicide attack on a CIA base in Khost, Afghanistan, in December 2009. Atiyah had posed for a phony secret video made by a supposed Jordanian spy to win the trust of U.S. intelligence operatives, a key step in luring the agency into a deadly trap.
Atiyah, slim with a youthful, wispy beard, commiserated with bin Laden about the group's mounting problems while occasionally indulging in wistful planning for a grand strike against the United States that would reverse al-Qaeda's decline.
The two found common cause in their drive to break the group's affiliates of their use of high-casualty attacks on Muslim civilians. In March 2011, less than two months before bin Laden's death, Atiyah warned jihadists against bombing marketplaces, mosques, playgrounds and other sites where innocent Muslims were likely to be killed.
Supervision of such high-
impact operations should not be delegated to field commanders but rather "assigned to trusted specialized committees of seekers of religious knowledge and military men," wrote Atiyah, who was killed a few months after bin Laden, in a U.S. drone strike in Pakistan last August.
Bin Laden, in his missives, displayed an increasingly legalistic interpretation of whether a terrorist act is permissible under sharia. When Pakistani American Faisal Shahzad tried to detonate a car bomb in New York's Times Square in May 2010, his attempt, widely hailed by jihadists, drew a surprising rebuke from bin Laden, who took a rare break from his self-imposed seclusion in central Pakistan to denounce Shahzad.
It wasn't the prospect of civilian deaths that upset bin Laden, but rather the fact that Shahzad had planned the act after swearing a loyalty oath to the United States as a newly naturalized citizen.
"You know it is not permissible to tell such a lie to the enemy," bin Laden wrote, according to a copy of his missive obtained by Jones, a senior political scientist at Rand Corp. (Bergen also refers to this incident in his book.)
Complaining of the "negative effects" to al-Qaeda's image, bin Laden noted that jihadists already were under suspicion in parts of the world for "reneging on oaths, and perfidy."
Scip thinks it's bad that we celebrate the death of Bin Laden.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2012, 02:32:36 PM
Scip thinks it's bad that we celebrate the death of Bin Laden.
Only because the Republicans can't capitalize on it themselves and make it an election issue. SO SOLLY GOPTARDS NOT THIS TIME FUCKERS
Quote from: BarryO
"We don't need to spike the football."
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: BarryO
"We don't need to spike the football."
I know, it's just killing you fuckers, isn't it? First time since '68 the GOP can't lord over of the Democrats with the WE DO FOREIGN POLICY AND NATIONAL SECURITY BETTER meme during an election year.
As far as I'm concerned, spike away, Mr. President.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2012, 02:55:28 PM
As far as I'm concerned, spike away, Mr. President.
Oh, don't worry about that. His arm's probably tired by now.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 03:22:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2012, 02:55:28 PM
As far as I'm concerned, spike away, Mr. President.
Oh, don't worry about that. His arm's probably tired by now.
:lol: I know mine is. :smarty: :smarty: :smarty: :smarty:
Sorry, dercheney, there'll be no polemical fearmongering this election year. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2012, 03:25:00 PM
Sorry, dercheney, there'll be no polemical fearmongering this election year. :P
What is good old Karl up to these days?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2012, 03:25:00 PM
:lol: I know mine is. :smarty: :smarty: :smarty: :smarty:
YOU SEE WHAT I DID THERE.
QuoteSorry, dercheney, there'll be no polemical fearmongering this election year. :P
I wish. I'm sure we'll hear how the evil Republicans want to poison the air & water, steal old people's medicine, starve kids, make whore pills illegal, etc.
Quote from: katmai on May 01, 2012, 03:26:50 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2012, 03:25:00 PM
Sorry, dercheney, there'll be no polemical fearmongering this election year. :P
What is good old Karl up to these days?
Stockpiling the cash for the 6 swing states in play. Man, it's gonna be ugly.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 03:30:08 PM
I wish. I'm sure we'll hear how the evil Republicans want to poison the air & water, steal old people's medicine, starve kids, make whore pills illegal, etc.
Maybe, namely because it's true, but there'll be no Dick Cheney IF YOU VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATS WE WILL BE HIT AGAIN bullshit. No more "credible yet non-specific threats" ramp ups of the Homeland Security threat level right after Democratic Party election events. Nope, not this time, suckers. The GOP's gonna have to go another route this time.
"Whore pills"... wow.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 03:30:08 PM
I wish. I'm sure we'll hear how the evil Republicans want to poison the air & water, steal old people's medicine, starve kids, make whore pills illegal, etc.
I'll raise you "Liberals are going to ban the bible". Brought to you by the Republican National committee.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-645393.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xun9UYCO7es :lol:
The type of thing we'd be reading right now if the raid had gone wrong: http://correctnicity.com/blog/2012/05/01/what-we-might-be-reading-if-the-bin-laden-raid-had-failed/
Quote from: PRC on May 01, 2012, 03:47:47 PM
"Whore pills"... wow.
It's been a while since I used that, so I figured I'd throw it in there.
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 04:17:02 PM
The type of thing we'd be reading right now if the raid had gone wrong: http://correctnicity.com/blog/2012/05/01/what-we-might-be-reading-if-the-bin-laden-raid-had-failed/
The only thing that would've made that spoof better would've been a quote from Romney: "Not even Jimmy Carter would've authorized that raid." :lol:
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 04:31:07 PMIt's been a while since I used that, so I figured I'd throw it in there.
It's sweet how you always keep talking about your mum.
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 04:55:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 04:31:07 PMIt's been a while since I used that, so I figured I'd throw it in there.
It's sweet how you always keep talking about your mum.
:huh:
Still no answers from Pakistan. <_<
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2113584,00.html
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 01, 2012, 05:14:06 PM
Still no answers from Pakistan. <_<
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2113584,00.html
You think that Islamabad is going to actually say what we all know to be true? Shit. The Argies still think they own the Falklands, and the Turks the Sea of Azov. The Austrians still think that Franz Ferdinand's death caused WWI, and the Germans believe that Barbarossa is going to rise from the dead to lead them to world hegemony. Pakistan's dysfunctional foundational myth is that they are not a pile of terrorist-funding wankbags, and they are not going to surrender that for any collection of well-identified, universally known facts.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 05:09:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 04:55:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 04:31:07 PMIt's been a while since I used that, so I figured I'd throw it in there.
It's sweet how you always keep talking about your mum.
:huh:
That was unnecessary roughness. I would have flagged Jake and called the 15 yard penalty.
Agreed. Sit him out for a series.
It will be interesting to see how Obama tries to play the Osama card during the campaign.
Man Languish really is dying when you can't call someone's mother a whore. :cry:
Quote from: katmai on May 01, 2012, 05:51:57 PM
Man Languish really is dying when you can't call someone's mother a whore. :cry:
MOMS ARE OFF LIMITS. :mad:
Quote from: Ed AngerThat was unnecessary roughness. I would have flagged Jake and called the 15 yard penalty.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2012, 05:48:31 PM
Agreed. Sit him out for a series.
"Your mom" is "unnecessary roughness"? Man, you guys must have had a hard time of it in kindergarden.
QuoteIt will be interesting to see how Obama tries to play the Osama card during the campaign.
You think it's going to be played more than it is now? He's already doing the "making tough decisions and standing by them, doing the right thing; Romney says he wouldn't have gone after Osama."
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2012, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: katmai on May 01, 2012, 05:51:57 PM
Man Languish really is dying when you can't call someone's mother a whore. :cry:
MOMS ARE OFF LIMITS. :mad:
Guess Katmai and Jacob's moms didn't teach them proper respect. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 01, 2012, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2012, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: katmai on May 01, 2012, 05:51:57 PM
Man Languish really is dying when you can't call someone's mother a whore. :cry:
MOMS ARE OFF LIMITS. :mad:
Guess Katmai and Jacob's moms didn't teach them proper respect. :P
i give it when i get it. ^_^
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 01, 2012, 05:59:11 PMGuess Katmai and Jacob's moms didn't teach them proper respect. :P
How is it disrespectful to suggest that someone uses birth control?
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 06:01:42 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 01, 2012, 05:59:11 PMGuess Katmai and Jacob's moms didn't teach them proper respect. :P
How is it disrespectful to suggest that someone uses birth control?
If only Derspicys had :(
:P
WTF, OBAMA IS INTERRUPTING MAH JEOPARDY PROGRAM. :mad:
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2012, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: katmai on May 01, 2012, 05:51:57 PM
Man Languish really is dying when you can't call someone's mother a whore. :cry:
MOMS ARE OFF LIMITS. :mad:
Marty's isn't. At least not to the Red Army.
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 04:17:02 PM
The type of thing we'd be reading right now if the raid had gone wrong: http://correctnicity.com/blog/2012/05/01/what-we-might-be-reading-if-the-bin-laden-raid-had-failed/
That's pretty good. Reminds me of that air strikes on Sudan and Afghanistan back during the Clinton administration.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2012, 07:10:06 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2012, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: katmai on May 01, 2012, 05:51:57 PM
Man Languish really is dying when you can't call someone's mother a whore. :cry:
MOMS ARE OFF LIMITS. :mad:
Marty's isn't. At least not to the Red Army.
Dude. NO. If I had a ruler, I'd smack you.
Doesn't matter. He can't hear me.
We lose Mart again? Rage quit or Fatmai oppression?
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2012, 07:22:20 PM
We lose Mart again? Rage quit or Fatmai oppression?
No. He's ignoring me. So I can say anything I want about it him. Like that I respect him immensely and think his contributions are incisive and thought-provoking. See? He won't get to read that. So long as you don't quote me.
Raz and Mart are not on seeing terms.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2012, 07:27:48 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2012, 07:22:20 PM
We lose Mart again? Rage quit or Fatmai oppression?
No. He's ignoring me. So I can say anything I want about it him. Like that I respect him immensely and think his contributions are incisive and thought-provoking. See? He won't get to read that. So long as you don't quote me.
WHOOPS.
Goddamn it.
You know what, I'm being a Sally Sensitive. Fuck it. You all want to act like baboons, go right on ahead.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2012, 07:34:20 PM
You know what, I'm being a Sally Sensitive. Fuck it. You all want to act like baboons, go right on ahead.
Yet you continue to slur me....I see being senstive only goes one way with you sirrah!
You didn't like the sweater I got you.
I don't like vests!
Scarlet looks fabulous on large people.
I imagine Katami wouldn't mind having Miss Johansson on top of him.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2012, 07:56:33 PM
Scarlet looks fabulous on large people.
MotherF#%*&
:lol:
Jake did cross the line, but I'm not all that worked up about it. His joke was awkwardly placed, so it was a pretty big swing & a miss.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 08:16:21 PM
Jake did cross the line, but I'm not all that worked up about it. His joke was awkwardly placed, so it was a pretty big swing & a miss.
Well I take exception to him calling
your mother names.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 08:16:21 PM
Jake did cross the line, but I'm not all that worked up about it. His joke was awkwardly placed, so it was a pretty big swing & a miss.
You guys are hilarious :lol:
"Your mom" is a "big swing"?
No, it's a pointless, juvenile, insipid "comeback" worthy of a grade-school spat or a junior high stoner joke.
In other words, it's on the same level as your trademark "whore pills" line and thus a perfectly appropriate response :)
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2012, 04:31:07 PM
Quote from: PRC on May 01, 2012, 03:47:47 PM
"Whore pills"... wow.
It's been a while since I used that, so I figured I'd throw it in there.
It just doesn't make sense, haven't literally 98% of American women used birth control in their lives?
Whores, every one of them.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2012, 05:48:31 PM
Agreed. Sit him out for a series.
It will be interesting to see how Obama tries to play the Osama card during the campaign.
Expect to see him with the new world trade center and a banner with the wording "I killed the MoFo" in the background.
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 06:01:42 PM
How is it disrespectful to suggest that someone uses birth control?
I thought it was great. When trolls get trolled, and are upset about it, that's pure internet win.
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 09:25:36 PM
You guys are hilarious :lol:
"Your mom" is a "big swing"?
No, it's a pointless, juvenile, insipid "comeback" worthy of a grade-school spat or a junior high stoner joke.
In other words, it's on the same level as your trademark "whore pills" line and thus a perfectly appropriate response :)
I and the other objectors interpreted your remark as calling Speesh's mom a whore.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2012, 07:16:45 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 09:25:36 PM
You guys are hilarious :lol:
"Your mom" is a "big swing"?
No, it's a pointless, juvenile, insipid "comeback" worthy of a grade-school spat or a junior high stoner joke.
In other words, it's on the same level as your trademark "whore pills" line and thus a perfectly appropriate response :)
I and the other objectors interpreted your remark as calling Speesh's mom a whore.
That's how I saw this. I mean, his mom is no saint, she did raise a son who thinks "whore pills" is an amusing troll, but that's still too harsh.
Grumbler is right. As spicey has said, he uses that term to get a reaction - it is a troll. The iron-clad laws of internet allowed Jake to troll him back, and to go nuclear.
C'mon people, "whore pills" is as much as derspiess schtick as kimono tea parties are for Lettuce-san.
Quote from: DGuller on May 02, 2012, 07:22:46 AM
That's how I saw this. I mean, his mom is no saint, she did raise a son who thinks "whore pills" is an amusing troll, but that's still too harsh.
Trolls are rarely amusing themselves, that one's elicited amusing reactions in the past but he's overplayed it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 02, 2012, 07:30:58 AM
C'mon people, "whore pills" is as much as derspiess schtick as kimono tea parties are for Lettuce-san.
:huh: It didn't sound like a troll the first few times he said it, when I angrily responded to it.
Quote from: grumbler on May 02, 2012, 06:36:12 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 06:01:42 PM
How is it disrespectful to suggest that someone uses birth control?
I thought it was great. When trolls get trolled, and are upset about it, that's pure internet win.
You're never amused when you get trolled.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 02, 2012, 07:30:58 AM
C'mon people, "whore pills" is as much as derspiess schtick as kimono tea parties are for Lettuce-san.
Exactly, a troll.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2012, 05:48:31 PM
It will be interesting to see how Obama tries to play the Osama card during the campaign.
QuotePresident Obama: Bin Laden raid is 'most important single day of my presidency'
President Barack Obama describes the killing of Osama bin Laden as the "most important single day" of his presidency and said that the decision to carry out the raid was one that he had to ultimately make alone.
"I did choose the risk," the president said in an exclusive interview with Rock Center Anchor and Managing Editor Brian Williams. "The reason I was willing to make that decision of sending in our SEALs to try to capture or kill bin Laden rather than to take some other options was ultimately because I had 100 percent faith in the Navy SEALs themselves."
A year after the May 1, 2011, raid on bin Laden's compound, Obama and several of the advisers who helped plan the operation, known as "Operation Neptune's Spear," spoke exclusively to NBC News, reflecting on the tense months spent planning and debating the feasibility of this daring raid. The interviews occurred before the president made an unannounced visit to Kabul on Tuesday, where he and President Hamid Karzai signed an agreement on the future of U.S. involvement in Afghanistan.
"This had to be such a close-held operation," the president said in the interview airing tonight at 9pm/8c on NBC. "There were only a handful of staff in the White House who knew about this."
The president did not share news of the mission's launch with his staff, or with the first lady.
"Even a breath of this in the press could have chased bin Laden away," Obama said. "We didn't know at that point whether there might be underground tunnels coming out of that compound that would allow him to escape."
The killing of the 9/11 mastermind had been years in the making, a mission that Obama's two predecessors had been unable accomplish. President Bill Clinton fired 75 cruise missiles trying to kill bin Laden while President George W. Bush was frustrated by the al-Qaeda leader's ability to evade capture.
Helmed by then CIA Director Leon Panetta, the agency identified the home of bin Laden's courier in the upscale town of Abbottabad, not far from Pakistan's capital, Islamabad. Satellites revealed someone else living at the same compound: a tall man walking in the courtyard that analysts dubbed "The Pacer."
"Ultimately it was a 50/50 proposition as to whether this was actually bin Laden," Obama said.
He and his advisers, including Vice President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, hammered out the possibilities.
Clinton said that she was brought into the process in January 2011 when a series of intensive meetings began in the White House Situation Room, or "Sit Room."
In March of 2011, the president ordered Admiral William McRaven, then commander of Joint Special Operations, to outline a possible raid on the suspected bin Laden compound.
"I remember the moment in the Sit Room with General McRaven," Clinton said, "and, you know, someone said, 'Well, this sounds really dangerous and we're going to expose our guys and what do we know is going to happen?' And he said, 'Well, with all due respect, we've done this hundreds of times.'"
In fact, the night bin Laden was killed, Special Forces carried out several other missions in the region.
"What may not be known is in addition to this operation that night, this specific one, there were multiple operations just like this going on in Afghanistan," said retired Admiral Mike Mullen, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "Some of them actually more difficult than the one that got bin Laden. And when I say more difficult, I don't think higher strategic risk, certainly not more important, but physically more difficult, more dangerous than the one that our great Special Forces executed."
The dress rehearsal
The plan to raid the compound in Abbottabad developed rapidly and by April 21, 2011, Admiral Mullen attended a dress rehearsal in the Nevada desert.
"When I actually went to the rehearsal and watched it at night at a place where they built a compound just like Abbottabad and watched it in execution, that just gave me great confidence that they could execute this," Mullen said.
He met every member of the SEAL Team Six that would ultimately carry out the mission.
"I got to look each of them in the eye. They showed me in their execution of rehearsal and also in that steely-eyed glare that they give you that they were ready to go," Mullen said.
Some of the men weren't yet aware who they were preparing to attack, but Mullen's presence signaled that they were going after a high-value target.
"They knew certainly how critical this was. They knew who they were and who they were working with," he said. "They may not even have known it was bin Laden at that point, but I'm sure they suspected it."
One week later, it looked like weather conditions in Pakistan would be perfect for the raid — a moonless night with clear skies. If the raid didn't happen that night, it could be months before weather conditions would be appropriate again for this high-risk operation.
Making the decision
Armed with the confidence that the Special Forces could carry out the mission, it was decision time. So on Thursday, April 28, 2011, the president gathered his advisers in the Situation Room, located below ground level in the White House.
"There was no consensus," Biden said. "The president on the last day got us all down in the Situation Room and he said, 'Okay, it's basically a roll call.'"
Secretary of Defense Robert Gates recommended an air strike with no forces on the ground. CIA Director Panetta supported a raid by Special Forces and so did Secretary of State Clinton. Vice President Biden wanted to wait on further proof that bin Laden was indeed in the compound.
"It was never contentious because I think everybody understood both the pros and cons of the action," Obama said. "People who were advocating action understood that if this did not work, if we proved to be wrong, there would be severe geopolitical consequences and obviously most importantly, we might be putting our brave Navy SEALs in danger."
During the meeting, the president never indicated which way he was leaning. After the discussion, he dismissed his team and said he'd have a decision in the morning. He had dinner with his family and then went to his study after his wife and daughters went to bed.
"Well, there is no doubt that you don't sleep as much that evening as you do on a normal night," the president said. "I stayed up late and I woke up early."
The next morning, in the Diplomatic Room of the White House, he told his national security advisers that the mission was a go.
"You have some serenity in knowing that you've made the best possible decision that you can and, you know, in that situation you just, you do some praying," Obama said.
A trio of national security advisers – John Brennan, Tom Donilon and Denis McDonough – had prepared briefing points for the president, but it was clear his mind was made up.
"My recollection is that he said, 'It's a go, we're going to do the assault. We're going to do the raid. Complete the orders, let's go,'" said Donilon.
Keeping the Secret
In order to not raise suspicions, the president and his advisers had to keep up their weekend plans.
Secretary Clinton said she faced an awkward question at a wedding for one of her daughter's friends.
"It was so ironic," she said. "All these smart young people who work in all kinds of enterprises, one of them came up and said, 'Do you think we'll ever get bin Laden?' I said, 'I don't know. I have no way of knowing, but I can tell you this, we'll keep trying.'"
She also hid the raid from her husband.
"This was such an important secret to keep," she said. "No one in the State Department knew. "I just felt a personal responsibility to keep it close, but that meant that I was basically, you know, having to consult with myself, to be honest."
Moments after giving the go-ahead for the raid, the president and the first lady boarded Marine One on a trip to inspect tornado damage in Tuscaloosa, Ala. And on Saturday night – the evening before the raid – he attended the White House Correspondents' Dinner and chuckled when a joke about bin Laden was made by comedian Seth Meyers.
"That was a little bit of acting going on there because my mind was elsewhere," he said.
National Security Advisor Donilon said that when he left the White House Correspondents' Dinner early, a reporter asked why he was leaving before the event concluded.
"I got this thing tomorrow," Donilon said as offhandedly as he could.
The raid
On Sunday, May 1, 2011, the president's advisers gathered in the Situation Room at around 11 a.m. Half a world away, the SEAL team waited for nightfall.
So as not to arouse suspicion that a major gathering was under way in the West Wing, the team ordered pizza from several different places and also sent someone to Costco to get food.
The president played nine holes of golf at Andrews Air Force Base before heading to the Situation Room at around 2 p.m.
"It is one of those rare moments when you know that the man you're watching is putting everything on the line," Biden said. "Everything on the line. Not only risking the lives of these incredible, incredible warriors, but also knowing that if he's wrong about this man, he's going to pay a very, very high price for it."
At around 2:30 p.m., word arrived that the first wave of helicopters had left Jalalabad, Afghanistan, for Abbottabad with Navy SEALs, a Pakistani-American translator and a service dog named Cairo. At the president's request, two Chinook helicopters stayed close by with additional SEALs as backup.
"They were accustomed to operating in the dark," Obama said. "They were accustomed to landing in the compounds where they weren't sure what was behind closed doors. These guys were all trained to do that."
"A lot of them had as much gray hair as you and me and, you know, if you had passed them on the street, you might have – and if they were in civilian clothes – you might have thought they were accountants or doctors or, you know, worked at Home Depot."
After the mission started, the CIA provided audio and video of the raid in real time in a smaller room next to the Situation Room. The atmosphere, said Admiral Mullen, was tense.
Soon, the president and his advisers began crowding into the room where the video was being played, which was never meant to hold as many people as it did that day. Brigadier General Marshall "Brad" Webb was receiving and interpreting information from the mission. Never expecting Obama to come in the room, he was sitting in the chair intended for the president.
"He started to get up and people were starting to go through the protocol and figuring out how to rearrange things," the president said. "I said, 'You don't worry about it. You just focus on what you're doing. I'm sure we can find a chair and I'll sit right next to him.' And that's how I ended up (on a) folding chair."
The group watched the hazy, but intelligible images and gasped when the first helicopter's rotor stopped turning and it suddenly dropped, crashing over a stone wall.
"That helicopter didn't make it to the right spot and everyone went, like, 'Whoa,'" Biden said.
Obama remembers seeing the Secretary of State cover her mouth with her hand.
"It was just the shock of the moment," Clinton said. "It was, I mean, all of us sitting there, and I would even predict probably our military and defense colleagues, you know, for a minute were kind of holding that breath again."
The mishap was blamed on a bad downdraft and unusually warm temperatures, which can affect lift and maneuverability. The president called it a "touch and go moment."
"The only thing that I was thinking about throughout this entire enterprise was, 'I really want to get those guys back home safe,'" he added. "I want to make sure that the decision I've made has not resulted in them putting their lives at risk in vain, and if I got that part of it right, if I could look myself in the mirror and say as commander in chief I made a good call."
Back inside the Situation Room, the loss of a helicopter didn't make any difference in Admiral McRaven's monotone play-by-play voice, beamed in from Afghanistan.
"Did not miss a beat. He is a cool customer," said Obama.
Clinton recalled watching the SEALs leave the helicopters.
"We could see our guys moving," she said. "It was an intense experience for all of us because it was real time, visually, until we lost the visual connection inside the building."
The SEALs had moved inside the compound with their body armor, weapons and night vision.
"At this point, I think all of us understand that we're a long way to go before the night is done," Obama said. "And, you know, I've said this was the longest 40 minutes of my life."
As the SEALs moved inside, the national security team listened for "Geronimo," the code name for bin Laden.
"We knew that was the call sign and when we heard that, they felt they had identified Geronimo, that was the first moment, and then Geronimo KIA," the president said.
Several members of the president's national security team told NBC News that there were provisions in place to take bin Laden alive.
"But we also understood that it was not likely that he was going to be giving himself up in that way," Obama said, "and that there was a strong possibility that he would end up being killed if in fact he was in the compound."
Along with precision and planning, prayer played a role for some of the president's closest advisers. Vice President Biden and Admiral Mullen both nervously spun rosary rings on their fingers as they received word that the body of the man they believed was bin Laden had been put on a helicopter with U.S. forces.
"We knew the mission had been successful in that bin Laden was on board, but then it was an hour flight back," Biden said.
Biden had begun to put his rosary away when he felt a tap on his shoulder from Mullen.
"I leaned down," Mullen explained. "I said, 'Mr. Vice President, not yet. Keep it going because as important as killing, capturing or killing bin Laden was, it was more important to get him out.' And so we were a long way, even as we got bin Laden, his body in that helicopter, we were a long way from completing that mission at that point."
The death photo
When the SEAL team made it safely back to Afghanistan, photos were transmitted to the president and his team to offer photographic proof that bin Laden was dead.
When asked about seeing the picture of bin Laden, who had been shot in the head, the president took a long pause.
"I think it's wrong to say that I did a high five," he said, "because you have a picture of a dead body and, you know, there's I think regardless of who it is, you always have to be sober about death. But understanding the satisfaction for the American people, what it would mean for 9/11 families, what it would mean for the children of folks who died in the Twin Towers who never got to know their parents, I think there was a deep-seated satisfaction for the country at that moment."
Secretary Clinton believes strongly that the president was right not to release the photos.
"I looked at them," she said. "Obviously, (it's) never easy to see any dead body, but it was part of the job. I think we made the right decision not to sensationalize this, not to desecrate it, so to speak. His body was flown to a Navy ship. It was given a proper Islamic burial at sea and I think that we handled it exactly right."
After the president and his team felt confident that bin Laden was indeed dead, they began calling Cabinet members, Congressional leaders and foreign heads of state.
The president called Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.
"I think it was an important symbol of who we are as a people," he said of the calls. "We get into these partisan fights, administrations come and go, but there's a certain continuity about who we are and what we care about and what our values are."
For Mullen, one of the most important calls placed was to his Pakistani military counterpart about the crashed helicopter.
When the first pictures of the wreckage emerged hours later, aviation websites went wild. The crashed chopper appeared to be proof of a stealth version of the Blackhawk that the United States had been rumored to be developing for years. Its noise-reducing technology and unique fin had been designed for near silent, invisible operation. In coming days, neighborhood children picked through pieces of what had been among the military's best kept secrets.
"I called General [Ashfaq Parvez] Kayani in Pakistan," Mullen said. "I felt obligated to let him know what had happened ... and then part of that conversation was about the helicopter and I said, 'We need that back.'"
As more calls were made, the news began to leak, spread at lightning speed by the Internet. The president and his advisers, however, were unaware that throngs of young people were pouring into Lafayette Park to cheer outside the White House.
"The thing that surprised me that night and I don't think we had planned for was the public reaction," Donilon said. "We walked out and we could hear the noise and I remember very clearly turning to whoever was walking next to me saying, 'What is that?'"
Secretary Clinton described it as an "astonishing moment."
"We could hear this roar. We had no idea what it was," she said. "Then all of a sudden we were able to decipher, 'U.S.A., U.S.A.'"
Telling his family
Before the president heard the cheering crowds and addressed the nation, he checked in with the first lady.
"She's at dinner," he said. "I let her know, you know, that I'm probably going to miss dinner because I've got a few other things going on tonight. It turns out we had a fairly important thing to announce."
He recalled telling his daughters that bin Laden was dead.
"Malia and Sasha, I think, were too young to fully absorb 9/11. On the other hand, they've grown like all our children have grown up in the shadow of 9/11 and terrorism and understood who Osama bin Laden was."
The president said that the full impact of the mission hit him a few days later when he met the SEALs who had carried out the operation. He said that he gave the pilot of the helicopter that crashed a "pretty good hug."
"They presented me with the flag that had gone on that mission, signed by all of them on the back and I think it's fair to say that will probably be the most important possession that I leave with from this presidency," he said.
You make it sound like something bad, Kleves.
What should've been the President's most important single day? Meeting the Super Bowl champion New York football Giants?
Maybe Kleves would feel better if Obama had a big shindig on a aircraft carrier.
Quote from: grumbler on May 02, 2012, 06:36:12 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 06:01:42 PM
How is it disrespectful to suggest that someone uses birth control?
I thought it was great. When trolls get trolled, and are upset about it, that's pure internet win.
Yes, I was quite upset about it. In fact, I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to the forum for my emotional outburst. I'll try not to react so strongly next time.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 02, 2012, 08:43:17 AM
You make it sound like something bad, Kleves.
I didn't make any comment at all; I just posted the article. Methinks you're a bit defensive about this. :P
Kleves, is this article from Fox News?
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2012, 08:46:18 AM
Yes, I was quite upset about it. In fact, I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to the forum for my emotional outburst. I'll try not to react so strongly next time.
[strawman backatcha] And, on the behalf of the forum, I'd like to apologize for our making so many posts in such a short time condemning your childish behavior that the board crashed and we all had to wait for this exchange of posts. We'll try to restrain our giveashit to a level the technology can handle.[/strawman backatcha]
Quote from: DGuller on May 02, 2012, 08:52:45 AM
Kleves, is this article from Fox News?
http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/02/11493919-president-obama-bin-laden-raid-is-most-important-single-day-of-my-presidency?lite
Quote from: grumbler on May 02, 2012, 08:55:38 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2012, 08:46:18 AM
Yes, I was quite upset about it. In fact, I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to the forum for my emotional outburst. I'll try not to react so strongly next time.
[strawman backatcha] And, on the behalf of the forum, I'd like to apologize for our making so many posts in such a short time condemning your childish behavior that the board crashed and we all had to wait for this exchange of posts. We'll try to restrain our giveashit to a level the technology can handle.[/strawman backatcha]
:lol: There is some life in the troll still after all. I was wrong.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I was was referring to whore pills, not grumbler.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2012, 07:16:45 AMI and the other objectors interpreted your remark as calling Speesh's mom a whore.
But you have no objection to Speesh calling most women (including 98% of American women not to mention any number of fellow posters' mothers) whores?
Quote from: Jacob on May 02, 2012, 09:21:00 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2012, 07:16:45 AMI and the other objectors interpreted your remark as calling Speesh's mom a whore.
But you have no objection to Speesh calling most women (including 98% of American women not to mention any number of fellow posters' mothers) whores?
It's called diffusion of insult (well, from this moment on it is). Insults that insult everyone insult no one.
Yet insults that target nobody always seem to target me for some reason. :(
Quote from: PRC on May 01, 2012, 03:47:47 PM
"Whore pills"... wow.
Why is this a big deal? I didnt find anything DS posted offensive. What line was crossed? :huh:
Quote from: DGuller on May 02, 2012, 09:25:54 AM
It's called diffusion of insult (well, from this moment on it is). Insults that insult everyone insult no one.
Also, insults that no one cares about insult no one.
Who cares if someone called someone else's mom a whore. It doesn't make her one.
Unless she is a whore.
Quote from: Jacob on May 02, 2012, 09:21:00 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2012, 07:16:45 AMI and the other objectors interpreted your remark as calling Speesh's mom a whore.
But you have no objection to Speesh calling most women (including 98% of American women not to mention any number of fellow posters' mothers) whores?
Leaving aside the dubious and/or irrelevant 98% figure, I can assure you that was not my intent.
The term started out as an inside joke between me, my wife & some of our friends. I really don't mean anything by it; I always just thought it was a funny term.
Further, I'm fascinated by the reaction it gets on Languish. It's what I would expect if a majority here were female. Given the strong language that is typically used here and general lack of sensitivity toward women, I originally did not expect even an eyebrow to be raised when I first used the term.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2012, 10:43:38 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 02, 2012, 09:21:00 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2012, 07:16:45 AMI and the other objectors interpreted your remark as calling Speesh's mom a whore.
But you have no objection to Speesh calling most women (including 98% of American women not to mention any number of fellow posters' mothers) whores?
Leaving aside the dubious and/or irrelevant 98% figure, I can assure you that was not my intent.
The term started out as an inside joke between me, my wife & some of our friends. I really don't mean anything by it; I always just thought it was a funny term.
Further, I'm fascinated by the reaction it gets on Languish. It's what I would expect if a majority here were female. Given the strong language that is typically used here and general lack of sensitivity toward women, I originally did not expect even an eyebrow to be raised when I first used the term.
It's like when Seedy calls someone a nigger, and when Lettow calls someone a nigger. Same words have different meanings when spoken by different people.
I can't believe the 'whore pills' line still attracts this much attention.
And here I am adding to the problem.
I have some acquintances whom I would like to turn into whores. Are these pills only available in the land of the free and easy or are they more widely available?
Quote from: Gups on May 02, 2012, 11:28:28 AM
I have some acquintances whom I would like to turn into whores. Are these pills only available in the land of the free and easy or are they more widely available?
:lol:
Quote from: Gups on May 02, 2012, 11:28:28 AM
I have some acquintances whom I would like to turn into whores. Are these pills only available in the land of the free and easy or are they more widely available?
Cold hard cash.
Necklace? Vaginal sex
Gold bracelet? Anal
Anyway, getting back to the topic at hand (who was the jerk that derailed this thread anyway??), from an objective standpoint I'm curious to know how this will affect Obama vs. Romney polling numbers.
Curiously, in the Gallup poll Romney has now pulled even with Obama even though he had been trailing by 7 points the previous week. But in the Rasmussen poll Romney now trails Obama by 3 points after having led by about that same margin last week.
Gallup polls registered voters, which seems to slightly favor Obama, while Rasmussen polls only likely voters, which has generally favored Romney up until this week.
In terms of approval numbers, I'm guessing Obama will get a momentary bump that will mirror last year's bump.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 02, 2012, 11:40:37 AM
Quote from: Gups on May 02, 2012, 11:28:28 AM
I have some acquintances whom I would like to turn into whores. Are these pills only available in the land of the free and easy or are they more widely available?
Cold hard cash.
Necklace? Vaginal sex
Gold bracelet? Anal
Ah, that's what they mean when they say "put a ring on it"
Quote from: Gups on May 02, 2012, 11:49:10 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 02, 2012, 11:40:37 AM
Quote from: Gups on May 02, 2012, 11:28:28 AM
I have some acquintances whom I would like to turn into whores. Are these pills only available in the land of the free and easy or are they more widely available?
Cold hard cash.
Necklace? Vaginal sex
Gold bracelet? Anal
Ah, that's what they mean when they say "put a ring on it"
Whether it's cash on the dresser by the door, dinner and a movie, an engagement ring or a mortgage, on a long enough timeline it's all extortion and cash for services with mob interest rates, pal.
In other news, the world is round.
Quote from: Gups on May 02, 2012, 11:49:10 AM
Ah, that's what they mean when they say "put a ring on it"
Usually that translates in my brain as "object not human enough to use personal pronoun".
I suppose the finger in question may technically be female, but "it" makes more sense.
nigger
I'll add some more.
Is it the word that is more hurtful or the actual act of discrimination/racism?
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 02, 2012, 11:40:37 AM
Quote from: Gups on May 02, 2012, 11:28:28 AM
I have some acquintances whom I would like to turn into whores. Are these pills only available in the land of the free and easy or are they more widely available?
Cold hard cash.
Necklace? Vaginal sex
Gold bracelet? Anal
Pearl necklace? You know :perv:
from ABC News:
Quote
The CIA, working with allied spy agencies in other countries, has apparently pulled off a real life "Mission Impossible." According to officials, a double agent disrupted al-Qaida's latest plane bomb plot by infiltrating the organization, posing as a suicide bomber, and then delivering the bomb to intelligence agents instead of carrying the device onto a U.S.-bound plane.
Details of the spy's identity are being closely held, but authorities tell ABC News he was able to actually infiltrate the bomb-making cell, learn of the plot, get his hands on a bomb, and get it out of Yemen through Saudi Arabia last week.
"It's quite an accomplishment to be able to pass yourself off as an al-Qaida terrorist to the terrorists, when in fact you're working for a US or allied intelligence agency," said Richard Clarke, an ABC News consultant and former White House counter-terrorism advisor.
Al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, al-Qaida's Yemeni affiliate, is known for its ideological purity and for carefully screening its recruits. Yet somehow, the spy agencies were able to get someone inside. The Obama administration confirmed Monday that the bomb plot, timed to the first anniversary of Osama bin Laden's death, had been disrupted last week.
Said John Brennan, current White House counter-terror advisor, "We had confidence that we had control, that the [bomb] was not a threat, it was not an active threat at that time."
The bomb is being described by U.S. officials as an upgrade to the underwear bomb used three years ago in a failed attempt to bring down a Detroit-bound jetliner.
Now being studied by the FBI, this new design is described as being made with a different chemical formula, with dual detonation systems to make it easier to set off.
Said Richard Clarke, "By having the bomb in its original state, before it goes off, U.S. experts are now able to figure out how the bomb works, how it might be detected. That's a heck of a lot easier when the bomb is still intact, than after it's exploded and you're picking up pieces."
Still, there is great concern that al-Qaida's chief bombmaker, 30-year old Ibrahim al-Asiri, is working on other bomb designs, including bombs surgically implanted in terrorists, even picture frames and radios, as shown in an al-Qaida video from 2009.
"They keep trying to devise more and more perverse and terrible ways to kill innocent people," said Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
In this case, the bomber was actually the source working for the US and others and there was no threat. But American authorities said today that as long as Asiri is alive, making other bombs for real terrorists, there remains a grave threat to the U.S.
by James E. Miller of the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Canada:
Quote
Today it was widely reported that the CIA thwarted a "plot by al Qaeda's affiliate in Yemen to destroy a U.S.-bound airliner using a bomb." This bomb, which was to be concealed in a pair of underwear, was designed as an improvement over what Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab attempted to use to blow up an airliner over Detroit on Christmas Day of 2009. This bomb was upgraded and designed to specifically avoid metal detectors. At first glance it would appear to be a job well done by the world's leading domestic affairs meddlers. The truth was finally revealed as the would-be bomber was, in fact, a double agent of the CIA.
When considering the nature of the state, this new instance of government supported terrorism is unsurprisingly comparable to previous cases. The alleged Yemen "underwear" bomber was just another fabricated spook in the long line of mounting justifications to keep the war on terror and its profiteers going; no matter the cost. As long as the American people are still easily whipped into a frenzy over forged menaces from afar, their blood and treasure will go on to be squandered on military boondoggles and redundant intelligence agencies. War and fear end up becoming a way of life. And so does the state's command over what could be a life of peace and tranquility for the nation it supposedly protects. This isn't conspiracy theory; just a recognition of the various hobgoblins, as H.L. Mencken described them, invented to justify encroaching totalitarianism.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmimg.ugo.com%2F201108%2F4%2F3%2F4%2F205434%2Fcuts%2Fbattleship-rihanna-jpg_288x288.jpg&hash=f67d06f7d8257d586b240d87604d886bc073e4ae)
I'm much more fascinated with the latest GOP strategy to Swift Boat the President.
QuoteThe Swift Boating of Obama Has Begun
By John Hudson | May 2, 2012
The AtlanticWire.com
The tactic credited with unraveling John Kerry's presidential campaign is being re-tooled for President Obama.
On Tuesday night, Veterans for a Strong America, a political action group led by Joel Arends, a lawyer and veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, released an ad attacking Obama for exploiting the killing of Osama bin Laden. The powerful spot tugs at the heartstrings of supporters of American Special Forces units and looks in horror at any politician who might put himself above the selfless men of SEAL Team Six.
The ad also summons the memory of the 2004 Swift Boats Veterans for Truth ad campaign, which succeeded in casting doubt on Sen. Kerry's chief selling point, his Vietnam war hero status. In this respect, the Veterans for a Strong America ad chips away at one of Obama's signature stump lines: I killed bin Laden. In the ad, you'll notice a series of frames proclaiming what "real heroes do" that leave the viewer left thinking: Is that what Obama did?
The ad then cuts over to the president's announcement of the raid on May 1, 2011, splicing together every instance he refers to himself: "I can report ... I directed Leon Panetta ... I was briefed ... I determined ... at my direction ... I called President Zardari ... I, as commander-in-chief." It then shifts over to the Obama campaign's latest ad with former President Clinton emphasizing how bad a botched raid would've been for President Obama. "For Him"? asks the ad. What about for the SEALs?
It shouldn't surprise anyone that this type of attack campaign was going to surface. The first signs of veteran angst concerning the raid came in a Daily Mail story Monday involving a handful of current and former Navy SEALs chastising the president for using the raid to score political points. That was followed up by a report by BuzzFeed's Michael Hastings, who said he heard similar rumblings from current and former SEALs.
Of course, the thing about this ad—like the Swift Boat ad—is it's nearly impossible to tell how much this sentiment is genuinely coming from the community it purports to represent. Yes, Swift Boats Veterans for Truth included some 200 Vietnam veterans, but the majority of the veterans had never even served with Kerry. What do we know about "Veterans for a Strong America"? Very little from FEC data at this point though its clear from the group's website it has a somewhat inclusive mission to represent "veterans and veterans' supporters as advocates in the public policy process." One thing that's clear from this advertisement, if more current and former SEALs decided to come out of the woodwork in opposition to Obama, it could do real damage to him.
Gotta love the videos.
http://m.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/05/swift-boating-obama-has-begun/51811/
Oh Wow.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 08, 2012, 11:40:16 PM
I'm much more fascinated with the latest GOP strategy to Swift Boat the President.
The Swift Boating of Obama Has Begun
and he(Obamanation) could have said no. Sorry GOP monkies. He gave the green light. As far as I'm concerned he can use it anyway he sees fit.
I wonder if they would blame the troops if the mission failed.
I read a very good article about the Bin Laden death the other day. Can't seem to find it online though. It was about the PR war- how in burying him at sea and without any pictures or ceremony his death has not become an iconic moment. How releasing details about his porn collection and well decked out house his mystique of a holy man in a mountain cave has crumbled. How not parading around their defeated enemies has played out very well for the US.
Was very interesting stuff. Particularly since I remember a lot of moans about this sort of thing back when it happened.
Haven't seen any Obama ads about capping OBL yet (have seen ads about Good Barak creating clean energy jobs and Bad Mitt shipping jobs overseas).
But if what I've read is true, that Obama has a youtube video talking about how Romney wouldn't have whacked OBL, that's pretty wierd and indefensible.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2012, 03:35:26 PM
there'll be no Dick Cheney IF YOU VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATS WE WILL BE HIT AGAIN bullshit.
Of course, it's true that if you vote for the Democrats will eventually be hit again. OTOH, it's also true that eventually we'll be hit again if you vote for the Republicans, or a third party, or don't vote at all.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 09, 2012, 10:52:38 AM
But if what I've read is true, that Obama has a youtube video talking about how Romney wouldn't have whacked OBL, that's pretty wierd and indefensible.
Considering how both Mittens and McCain excoriated candidate Obama's statement in the 2008 campaign that he would violate Pakistani sovereignty to get the guy, I think it's not very weird and indefensible.
And instead of reading your propoganda about Youtube videos, why don't you go straight to Youtube yourself?
Here, I'll do it for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jWUzOrObXo
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2012, 11:18:56 AM
Considering how both Mittens and McCain excoriated candidate Obama's statement in the 2008 campaign that he would violate Pakistani sovereignty to get the guy, I think it's not very weird and indefensible.
And instead of reading your propoganda about Youtube videos, why don't you go straight to Youtube yourself?
Here, I'll do it for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jWUzOrObXo
:lol: Yeah, that CNN propaganda gave me a really twisted version of reality.
Even NPR has been hitting Obama on this one. But I'm glad you've got your marker down and are holding firm.
I don't see Obama doing anything wrong at all in pointing out that the news media should ask [Romney] about any inconsistencies in his statements about whether or not he would have violated Pakistani sovereignty to whack bin Laden.
I really do think the Republicans are going to lose my vote on this issue with these two-minute unskippable ads on some Youtube vids that essentially just show me pictures of Navy SEALs and note that Obama wasn't a SEAL. Like many, I instantly felt the vomit start its journey as I realized that the Swiftboat Swifties for Swift Mistruths in Swiftness were back, or their identical twins were appearing for the first time.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 09, 2012, 11:33:34 AM
But I'm glad you've got your marker down and are holding firm.
El Presidente Negro has got the high ground on foreign policy this election. Not even Swift Boats can touch him.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2012, 11:42:57 AM
El Presidente Negro has got the high ground on foreign policy this election. Not even Swift Boats can touch him.
No doubt. The question is whether he has the high ground on campaign rhertoric.
Quote from: grumbler on May 09, 2012, 11:41:07 AM
the Swiftboat Swifties for Swift Mistruths in Swiftness were back, or their identical twins were appearing for the first time.
:lol:
You mean, identical twin. The "Veterans for a Strong America" is actually just one veteran.
From Hansy's and Yi's reading list, Mother Jones--
QuoteHere's what we do know about Arends and Veterans For A Strong America:
1. In four days, the first ad by Veterans For A Strong America garnered almost 1 million views on Youtube. It has also been played frequently on TV news shows. [YouTube, 5/1/12]
2. Veterans For A Strong America is seeking to recruit Navy SEALS to attack Obama. "In the wake of a warm conservative reception for a web video trashing the president for 'spiking the football' on the anniversary of Osama Bin Laden's death, the conservative group Veterans for a Strong America plans to gather Navy SEALs and Special Forces operators to criticize the White House during the 2012 campaign." [BuzzFeed, 5/3/12]
3. Arends also tried to Swift Boat Obama in 2008. Arends, under the auspices of a similar group called "Vets for Freedom," ran an ad accusing Obama of refusing to meet with wounded soldiers from Illinois. [NPR, 7/5/08]
4. Arends worked as a consultant for the Koch Brothers' Americans for Prosperity. "Though he doesn't list it on his public resume, around 2006 Arends went to work for Craig Dewey, the state director of Americans for Prosperity, an advocacy outfit that's Astroturfed everything from the tea party and the Wisconsin union fight to public-school segregation." The Koch Brothers and their allies have pledged to spend $100 million to defeat Obama. [Mother Jones, 5/4/12; HuffingtonPost, 2/3/12]
5. In 2008, Arends — posing as a "journalist" — organized and participated in a taxpayer-subsidized propaganda trip to Iraq. "American taxpayers are paying for politically slanted, pro-McCain, anti-Obama 'reporters' embedded with U.S. troops in Iraq. Vets for Freedom – a pro-war organization that buys attack ads against Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama – assembled a team of eight military veterans with dubious journalistic credentials to report 'objectively' on what is occurring in Iraq...Joel Arends, another "reporter," is VFF's executive director and was on McCain's campaign payroll between March 2007 and February 2008." [Charleston Gazette, 8/28/08]
6. Arends is coordinating with key Islamophobic figures on the far right. He regularly appears at events with anti-Islam conspiracy theorist Frank Gaffney, who has been condemned by mainstream conservatives for his intolerant views. He is also alligned with William "Jerry" Boykin, who was found to have violated Pentagon rules by expressing his anti-Muslim views in an official capacity. [ThinkProgress, 2/12/12; For The Common Defense; New York Times, 3/4/05]
7. Arends helped promote a documentary advocating war with Iran. Arends appeared on a panel in March 2011 in South Dakota promoting the documentary Iranium, which strongly suggests beginning a war with Iran. [Flier; ThinkProgress, 11/3/11]
8. Veterans for A Strong America is fully endorsed by Karl Rove. The man known as "Bush's Brain" tweeted his support of their first web ad. [Twitter, 5/3/12]
Quote from: Jacob on May 01, 2012, 09:25:36 PMYou guys are hilarious :lol:
"Your mom" is a "big swing"?
No, it's a pointless, juvenile, insipid "comeback" worthy of a grade-school spat or a junior high stoner joke.
In other words, it's on the same level as your trademark "whore pills" line and thus a perfectly appropriate response :)
I know. 'Your mum' isn't crossing a line :lol:
Whoa, Romney is now up on Obama in both Gallup (+3) and Rasmussen (+5).
Either Obama's bin Laden death anniversary bump is already over or Romney is in his de facto post-primary consolidation mode, or both.
I'm offering even money on Obama for a limited time.
Quote from: derspiess on May 09, 2012, 12:37:26 PM
Either Obama's bin Laden death anniversary bump is already over or Romney is in his de facto post-primary consolidation mode, or both.
With the primaries effectively over, the voters are picking their sides.
And, it's getting warmer out--coon-hating crackers start getting agitated.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2012, 01:00:05 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 09, 2012, 12:37:26 PM
Either Obama's bin Laden death anniversary bump is already over or Romney is in his de facto post-primary consolidation mode, or both.
With the primaries effectively over, the voters are picking their sides.
Yeah, though a significant number of WV Democrat voters picked this dude over Obama :D
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl3.yimg.com%2Fbt%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FOa8HPcMPuj_.j9cRqRrFGQ--%2FYXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD01MjU7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.zenfs.com%2Fen_us%2FNews%2Fap_webfeeds%2F39fb75ec1586210d0f0f6a70670000fc.jpg&hash=7d88efed1124406778dd34eb3c28132a64296d13)
QuoteAnd, it's getting warmer out--coon-hating crackers start getting agitated.
I can tell that from the tone of your posts ;)
Quote from: derspiess on May 09, 2012, 01:17:28 PM
QuoteAnd, it's getting warmer out--coon-hating crackers start getting agitated.
I can tell that from the tone of your posts ;)
:lol:
Nice try, whore pill. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2012, 01:18:59 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 09, 2012, 01:17:28 PM
QuoteAnd, it's getting warmer out--coon-hating crackers start getting agitated.
I can tell that from the tone of your posts ;)
:lol:
Nice try, whore pill. :P
:punk:
Baring some kind of complete foreign policy disaster between now and the general election, or some truly shocking revelation about Romney, the election will be decided on what the economy does, not by foreign policy rhetoric.
What's the definition of a moderate muslim?
A muslim that ran out of ammo.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fazizonomics.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F05%2Fndaa_20obama_20hope1.jpg%3Fw%3D600&hash=c1133b46c636a5f5cf7a8740ea6027e4f5086640)
In other Afghan related news...members of the ANA negotiating with the Taliban to ambush/loot "retreating" U.S. troops....
QuoteReport: Taliban, Afghan troops forge agreements as NATO prepares draw-down
By msnbc.com staff
May 20, 2012, 9:49 pm
MSN.com
Members of the Afghan army are forging secret alliances with the Taliban, threatening to undermine the ability of Afghan authorities to maintain control just as NATO troops prepare to hand over power to the country's security forces, Britain's Sunday Times reported.
In Ghazni province an hour from capital Kabul, Afghan army lieutenant Mohammad Wali admitted to the newspaper that he and a local Taliban commander were working together. (The Sunday Times operates behind a paywall)
"We lost seven men in an ambush when I first arrived at the base," Wali, who commands 18 men, told The Times. "So I thought, why risk my life when there's another way?"
The two share intelligence about military operations and plan to loot Nato supply convoys and divide-up the proceeds, the newspaper reported.
Wali told the newspaper that he met the local Taliban chief in a bazaar, where the two agreed a ceasefire and plans to ambush NATO convoys on the Kabul-Kandahar highway.
"The plan is simple," Wali told the newspaper. "When the Taliban attack the convoys we stay in our bases. If the Taliban capture something valuable then they share it with us later."
Local Taliban commander Mohammad Hassan told The Times that he had hit dozens of convoys in this way.
Forget protests: NATO summit's problem is Afghanistan
Around 20 percent of NATO supply convoys come under attack in Afghanistan, the newspaper reported. NATO and the government of President Hamid Karzai have down-played down the significance of such ceasefires and informal agreements, it added.
However, at least one recently returned officer said such agreements seemed to be commonplace.
"In almost every combat outpost I visited, troopers reported to me they had intercepted radio or other traffic between (Afghan forces) and local Taliban making mini non-aggression deals," Lt. Col. Daniel Davis told the newspaper.
NYT: US-led imperative in peril as trained Afghans turn enemy
In its own internal assessments, NATO acknowledged that that there has been a "conspicuous increase" in intelligence indicating cooperation between the Nato-trained Afghan security and the Taliban, according to the newspaper.
The Pentagon has said that the performance of the Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF) are key to the success of the handover.
"The ANSF, now responsible for leading security for almost half of Afghanistan's population, partners with (NATO forces in Afghanistan) on nearly 90 percent of all coalition operations, of which the ANSF is the lead for more than 40 percent of those partnered operations," according to the Pentagon's 'Report on Progress and Stability in Afghanistan.'
Motorcycle bomber kills 10 in eastern Afghanistan
Despite the Pentagon's claims, almost all of the joint activities were simple operations, Michael O'Hanlon, a defense expert at the Brookings Institution, who visited Afghanistan last week, told The Times.
Reports that some Afghan security officials are colluding with insurgents is sure to cause worry as NATO nations meet in Chicago to discuss the future of the war-torn country once 130,000 NATO troops leave.
While some troops from NATO countries will most probably stay behind after 2014, local forces will be expected to bear the brunt of the fighting and security operations, and stop the country from sliding into civil war.
About 3,000 foreign soldiers have died in Afghanistan since the war began after the September 11, 2001 attacks.
:lmfao:
Shows how you can't just time travel back into the stone age and instantly form a modern state out of a "tribes we couldnt bother to conquer" territory posing as a country.
Look at what that "officer" is saying. He has zero loyalty to the flag and army. In his mind, being armed means being entitled to loot whoever can't protect it's stuff.
Quote"The plan is simple," Wali told the newspaper. "When the Taliban attack the convoys we stay in our bases. If the Taliban capture something valuable then they share it with us later."
The same plan they've been working since 800 BC.