I think I speak for us all when I call for Sweden to be bathed in atomic fire. :sleep:
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/04/hen_sweden_s_new_gender_neutral_pronoun_causes_controversy_.html
QuoteHOME / Doublex : What women really think about news, politics, and culture.
Sweden's New Gender-Neutral Pronoun: Hen
A country tries to banish gender.
By Nathalie Rothschild|Posted Wednesday, April 11, 2012, at 5:43 PM ET
By most people's standards, Sweden is a paradise for liberated women. It has the highest proportion of working women in the world, and women earn about two-thirds of all degrees. Standard parental leave runs at 480 days, and 60 of those days are reserved exclusively for dads, causing some to credit the country with forging the way for a new kind of nurturing masculinity. In 2010, the World Economic Forum designated Sweden as the most gender-equal country in the world.
But for many Swedes, gender equality is not enough. Many are pushing for the Nordic nation to be not simply gender-equal but gender-neutral. The idea is that the government and society should tolerate no distinctions at all between the sexes. This means on the narrow level that society should show sensitivity to people who don't identify themselves as either male or female, including allowing any type of couple to marry. But that's the least radical part of the project. What many gender-neutral activists are after is a society that entirely erases traditional gender roles and stereotypes at even the most mundane levels.
Activists are lobbying for parents to be able to choose any name for their children (there are currently just 170 legally recognized unisex names in Sweden). The idea is that names should not be at all tied to gender, so it would be acceptable for parents to, say, name a girl Jack or a boy Lisa. A Swedish children's clothes company has removed the "boys" and "girls" sections in its stores, and the idea of dressing children in a gender-neutral manner has been widely discussed on parenting blogs. This Swedish toy catalog recently decided to switch things around, showing a boy in a Spider-Man costume pushing a pink pram, while a girl in denim rides a yellow tractor.
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The Swedish Bowling Association has announced plans to merge male and female bowling tournaments in order to make the sport gender-neutral. Social Democrat politicians have proposed installing gender-neutral restrooms so that members of the public will not be compelled to categorize themselves as either ladies or gents. Several preschools have banished references to pupils' genders, instead referring to children by their first names or as "buddies." So, a teacher would say "good morning, buddies" or "good morning, Lisa, Tom, and Jack" rather than, "good morning, boys and girls." They believe this fulfills the national curriculum's guideline that preschools should "counteract traditional gender patterns and gender roles" and give girls and boys "the same opportunities to test and develop abilities and interests without being limited by stereotypical gender roles."
Earlier this month, the movement for gender neutrality reached a milestone: Just days after International Women's Day a new pronoun, hen (pronounced like the bird in English), was added to the online version of the country's National Encyclopedia. The entry defines hen as a "proposed gender-neutral personal pronoun instead of he [han in Swedish] and she [hon]."The National Encyclopedia announcement came amid a heated debate about gender neutrality that has been raging in Swedish newspaper columns and TV studios and on parenting blogs and feminist websites. It was sparked by the publication of Sweden's first ever gender-neutral children's book, Kivi och Monsterhund (Kivi and Monsterdog). It tells the story of Kivi, who wants a dog for "hen's" birthday. The male author, Jesper Lundqvist, introduces several gender-neutral words in the book. For instance the words mammor and pappor (moms and dads) are replaced with mappor and pammor.
The free lifestyle magazine, Nöjesguiden, which is distributed in major Swedish cities and is similar to the Village Voice, recently released an issue using hen throughout. In his column, writer Kawa Zolfagari says, "It can be hard to handle the male ego sometimes. I myself tend to get a stinging feeling when a female friend has had it with sexism or has got hurt because of some guy and desperately blurts out some generalisation about men. Sometimes I think 'Hen knows me, hen knows I am not an idiot, why does hen speak that way of all men?' Nöjesguiden's editor, Margret Atladottir, said hen ought to be included in the dictionary of the Swedish Academy, the body that awards the Nobel Prize in literature.
Hen was first mentioned by Swedish linguists in the mid-1960s, and then in 1994 the late linguist Hans Karlgren suggested adding hen as a new personal pronoun, mostly for practical reasons. Karlgren was trying to avoid the awkward he/she that gums up writing, and invent a single word "that enables us to speak of a person without specifying their gender. He argued that it could improve the Swedish language and make it more nuanced.
Today's hen champions, however, have a distinctly political agenda. For instance, Lundqvist's book is published by a house named Olika, which means "different or diverse." Olika only publishes books that "challenge stereotypes and obsolete norms and traditions in the world of literature." Its titles include 100 möjligheter Istället för 2! ("100 possibilities instead of 2!"), a book for adults who "want to give children more opportunities in gender-stereotyped everyday life"; and Det var en gång ... en ritbok! ("Once upon a time there was ... a drawing book!"), the first "gender-scrutinizing" drawing book for children that "challenges traditional and diminishing conceptions of girls and boys, men and women."
But not everyone is keen on this political meddling with the Swedish language. In a recent interview for Vice magazine, Jan Guillou, one of Sweden's most well-known authors, referred to proponents of hen as "feminist activists who want to destroy our language." Other critics believe it can be psychologically and socially damaging, especially for children. Elise Claeson, a columnist and a former equality expert at the Swedish Confederation of Professions, has said that young children can become confused by the suggestion that there is a third, "in-between" gender at a time when their brains and bodies are developing. Adults should not interrupt children's discovery of their gender and sexuality, argues Claeson. She told the Swedish daily, Dagens Nyheter, that "gender ideologues" have managed to change the curriculum to establish that schools should actively counter gender roles.
Claeson might have a point. The Swedish school system has wholeheartedly, and probably too quickly and eagerly, embraced this new agenda. Last fall, 200 teachers attended a major government-sponsored conference discussing how to avoid "traditional gender patterns" in schools. At Egalia, one model Stockholm preschool, everything from the decoration to the books and toys are carefully selected to promote a gender-equal perspective and to avoid traditional presentations of gender and parenting roles. The teachers try to expose the pupils to as few "gendered expressions" as possible. At Christmastime, the Egalia staff rewrote a traditional song as "hen bakes cakes all day long." When pupils play house, they are encouraged to include "mommy, daddy, child" in their imaginary families, as well as "daddy, daddy, child"; "mommy, mommy, child"; "daddy, daddy, sister, aunty, child"; or any other modern combination.
To those who feel gender equality or gender neutrality ought to be intrinsic to a modern society, it probably makes sense to argue for instilling such values at an early age. The Green Party has even suggested placing "gender pedagogues" in every preschool in Stockholm, the Swedish capital, who can act as watchdogs. But of course toddlers cannot weigh arguments for and against linguistic interventions and they do not conceive of or analyze gender roles in the way that adults do.
Ironically, in the effort to free Swedish children from so-called normative behavior, gender-neutral proponents are also subjecting them to a whole set of new rules and new norms as certain forms of play become taboo, language becomes regulated, and children's interactions and attitudes are closely observed by teachers. One Swedish school got rid of its toy cars because boys "gender-coded" them and ascribed the cars higher status than other toys. Another preschool removed "free playtime" from its schedule because, as a pedagogue at the school put it, when children play freely "stereotypical gender patterns are born and cemented. In free play there is hierarchy, exclusion, and the seed to bullying." And so every detail of children's interactions gets micromanaged by concerned adults, who end up problematizing minute aspects of children's lives, from how they form friendships to what games they play and what songs they sing.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 18, 2012, 03:18:51 AM
The Swedish Bowling Association has announced plans to merge male and female bowling tournaments in order to make the sport gender-neutral.
This part is ok, apart from the misuse of the word "sport".
Like calling curling a sport.
Much of the article I could agree with, except the final paragraph. If true freedom from oppression is the goal (which I know in some ways it isn't), why not just let children play freely (while keeping any eye out for bullying and safety, obviously), and with the toys they want, regardless of their gender? E.g. if boys want to play with dolls, great, and if girls want to play with dolls, good for them. Same goes for cars, etc.
A gender neutral pronoun in the singular other than "it" would be a good addition to English, too.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on April 18, 2012, 06:22:53 AM
A gender neutral pronoun in the singular other than "it" would be a good addition to English, too.
Perhaps. A lot of people use "they" in circumstances where that would be called for.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on April 18, 2012, 06:22:53 AM
Much of the article I could agree with, except the final paragraph. If true freedom from oppression is the goal
Yeah the goals of equality are good but it sorta sounds kinda authoritarian...but granted these are schools not exactly bastions of freedom.
I would be interested to know the extent this sort of thing is embraced by their immigrant communities.
QuoteA gender neutral pronoun in the singular other than "it" would be a good addition to English, too.
Knowing English we probably already have about 60 such words :P
Will Feminism in Sweden be renamed: Personism?
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 18, 2012, 06:22:11 AM
Like calling curling a sport.
:ultra:
You try dragging a 40lb hunk of granite down a sheet of ice using nothing but a broom for two hours before telling me curling isn't a sport.
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 18, 2012, 06:22:11 AM
Like calling curling a sport.
:ultra:
You try dragging a 40lb hunk of granite down a sheet of ice using nothing but a broom for two hours before telling me curling isn't a sport.
I bet hauling boulders up hills with nothing but a broom is pretty difficult as well but that isn't a sport either.
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2012, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 18, 2012, 06:22:11 AM
Like calling curling a sport.
:ultra:
You try dragging a 40lb hunk of granite down a sheet of ice using nothing but a broom for two hours before telling me curling isn't a sport.
I bet hauling boulders up hills with nothing but a broom is pretty difficult as well but that isn't a sport either.
You're right, it isn't. Nobody in the world plays a sport involving hauling bolders up hills.
But quite a few people do play the sport of curling.
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 09:31:05 AM
You're right, it isn't. Nobody in the world plays a sport involving hauling bolders up hills.
But quite a few people do play the sport of curling.
I bet there actually are places in the world where that is a sport :P
But I was disputing your evidence that it is a sport simply because it involves heavy things and brooms.
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2012, 09:32:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 09:31:05 AM
You're right, it isn't. Nobody in the world plays a sport involving hauling bolders up hills.
But quite a few people do play the sport of curling.
I bet there actually are places in the world where that is a sport :P
But I was disputing your evidence that it is a sport simply because it involves heavy things and brooms.
Know what else involves lifting heavy things and brooms?
Being a janitor. ;)
Curling, like golf, could be considered a sport because strength gives a great advantage. That's not the case in similar games like bowling, target shooting, pool or horseshoes.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 18, 2012, 09:39:30 AM
Curling, like golf, could be considered a sport because strength gives a great advantage. That's not the case in similar games like bowling, target shooting, pool or horseshoes.
I don't know that strength necessarily gives an advantage. But what it does require is a decent level of fitness.
It doesn't? Then why are you always going on about how heavy the stones are? :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 18, 2012, 09:47:15 AM
It doesn't? Then why are you always going on about how heavy the stones are? :P
Well it obviously requires a basic level of strength - you need to be able to move the stone. But, unlike certain other sports, you don't get more of an advantage the stronger you are.
And because talking about "40lb hunks of granite" is both true, and makes curling sound more badass. :scots:
Well, I noticed a significant increase in my ability to make 3-point shots in basketball when I got strong enough to *shoot* the ball that far instead of heaving it at the basket.
We still have gender studies and crap like that at Swedish "universities". Places where low-grade DNA gathers and comes up with garbage like "hen".
Quote from: The Brain on April 18, 2012, 10:05:08 AM
We still have gender studies and crap like that at Swedish "universities". Places where low-grade DNA gathers and comes up with garbage like "hen".
Don't worry. Sweden is going to destroy gender and it will no longer be necessary to study it.
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 18, 2012, 06:22:11 AM
Like calling curling a sport.
:ultra:
You try dragging a 40lb hunk of granite down a sheet of ice using nothing but a broom for two hours before telling me curling isn't a sport.
Dragging? You're doing it wrong.
At any rate, curling is more of a sport than baseball.
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2012, 10:08:26 AM
Quote from: The Brain on April 18, 2012, 10:05:08 AM
We still have gender studies and crap like that at Swedish "universities". Places where low-grade DNA gathers and comes up with garbage like "hen".
Don't worry. Sweden is going to destroy gender and it will no longer be necessary to study it.
A good point. Most Scandi men seem fairly emasculated.
Pretending that something isn't there doesn't make it go away.
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2012, 07:59:23 AM
Yeah the goals of equality are good but it sorta sounds kinda authoritarian...but granted these are schools not exactly bastions of freedom.
Well, pre-university schools rarely are. It always annoys me when people attack programms like this from a conservative perspective, by arguing that this makes the school authoritarian - schools are and have always been authoritarian - it's just a matter of what behaviour we are enforcing.
Quote from: Martinus on April 18, 2012, 11:11:38 AM
Well, pre-university schools rarely are.
Yes that is what I said.
"That sounds squicky but then this is a school so that is probably not that unusual" was what I was going for.
Quote from: Neil on April 18, 2012, 11:03:07 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 18, 2012, 06:22:11 AM
Like calling curling a sport.
:ultra:
You try dragging a 40lb hunk of granite down a sheet of ice using nothing but a broom for two hours before telling me curling isn't a sport.
Dragging? You're doing it wrong.
At any rate, curling is more of a sport than baseball.
No, dragging a rock is a curling term. You take a rock that is really doesn't have enough weight, but you put down a serious scrub in order to get it further.
If a sport can be played at a competitive level by people who are overweight or otherwise unathletic then yes, curling is a sport.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 18, 2012, 11:46:04 AM
If a sport can be played at a competitive level by people who are overweight or otherwise unathletic then yes, curling is a sport.
While you used to see plenty of overweight, out of shape curlers, you rarely do anymore. The top curlers have all learned the advantages of being fit in curling.
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 12:03:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 18, 2012, 11:46:04 AM
If a sport can be played at a competitive level by people who are overweight or otherwise unathletic then yes, curling is a sport.
While you used to see plenty of overweight, out of shape curlers, you rarely do anymore. The top curlers have all learned the advantages of being fit in curling.
Yeah, thing have really changed over the last 15 years or so. These days, most leads and seconds look like old-school bodybuilders.
I think the sport of Curling's greatest failure is the inability to have come up with a name other than "Curling".
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 18, 2012, 03:18:51 AM
I think I speak for us all when I call for Sweden to be bathed in atomic fire. :sleep:
You basically never speak for me. Ever.
Even if I agree with you on something.
Just in case anyone wants an actual example of the amazing things having a gender neutral language can do for women's rights. (http://www.vice.com/vice-news/bride-kidnapping-in-kyrgyzstan-part-1)
Quote from: derspiess on April 18, 2012, 12:30:47 PM
I think the sport of Curling's greatest failure is the inability to have come up with a name other than "Curling".
But it's perfectly descriptive name - the rock does indeed "curl" down the ice.
Rock Pounding - now there is a sport we can all identify with....
Quote from: Queequeg on April 18, 2012, 12:36:22 PM
Just in case anyone wants an actual example of the amazing things having a gender neutral language can do for women's rights. (http://www.vice.com/vice-news/bride-kidnapping-in-kyrgyzstan-part-1)
Quotehe surprised his teenage girlfriend Nazgul with the gift of marriage/kidnapping
I think Sauron will not be pleased.
Quote from: Solmyr on April 18, 2012, 02:26:14 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 18, 2012, 12:36:22 PM
Just in case anyone wants an actual example of the amazing things having a gender neutral language can do for women's rights. (http://www.vice.com/vice-news/bride-kidnapping-in-kyrgyzstan-part-1)
Quotehe surprised his teenage girlfriend Nazgul with the gift of marriage/kidnapping
I think Sauron will not be pleased.
He is watching this very closely!! (http://www.knack.be/nieuws/wetenschap/jonge-ster-formalhaut-is-uitzonderlijk-actief/article-4000080583114.htm#reviews?rnd=62866)
I hate to bust Swedish bubbles, but, as one example, the Hungarian language has always been gender neutral, and that doesn't really result in a more tolerant, or enlightened society when it came to gender roles and such.
Quote from: Tamas on April 19, 2012, 07:53:53 AM
I hate to bust Swedish bubbles, but, as one example, the Hungarian language has always been gender neutral, and that doesn't really result in a more tolerant, or enlightened society when it came to gender roles and such.
Further socialization via school policies does not have a great track record either.
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 18, 2012, 12:30:47 PM
I think the sport of Curling's greatest failure is the inability to have come up with a name other than "Curling".
But it's perfectly descriptive name - the rock does indeed "curl" down the ice.
It's also what women do with their hair. LEARN MARKETING.
Could they call it braiding?
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2012, 11:37:59 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 18, 2012, 12:30:47 PM
I think the sport of Curling's greatest failure is the inability to have come up with a name other than "Curling".
But it's perfectly descriptive name - the rock does indeed "curl" down the ice.
It's also what women do with their hair. LEARN MARKETING.
The earliest use of the word curling to describe the sport was in 1620. LEARN HISTORY.
So they had hundreds of years to correct the mistake.
Quote from: Barrister on April 19, 2012, 11:41:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2012, 11:37:59 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 18, 2012, 12:30:47 PM
I think the sport of Curling's greatest failure is the inability to have come up with a name other than "Curling".
But it's perfectly descriptive name - the rock does indeed "curl" down the ice.
It's also what women do with their hair. LEARN MARKETING.
The earliest use of the word curling to describe the sport was in 1620. LEARN HISTORY.
It would seem the word "curl" has always been associated with hair. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=curl&allowed_in_frame=0
Quote from: Razgovory on April 19, 2012, 11:47:20 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 19, 2012, 11:41:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2012, 11:37:59 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 18, 2012, 12:30:47 PM
I think the sport of Curling's greatest failure is the inability to have come up with a name other than "Curling".
But it's perfectly descriptive name - the rock does indeed "curl" down the ice.
It's also what women do with their hair. LEARN MARKETING.
The earliest use of the word curling to describe the sport was in 1620. LEARN HISTORY.
It would seem the word "curl" has always been associated with hair. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=curl&allowed_in_frame=0
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=curling&allowed_in_frame=0
The words originated at the same time - early 17th century.
Yes, the modern word. But the words it derived from also refer to hair. That indicates that the word referred to hair before it became a verb and then a noun to describe a sport.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 19, 2012, 11:58:25 AM
Yes, the modern word. But the words it derived from also refer to hair. That indicates that the word referred to hair before it became a verb and then a noun to describe a sport.
Of the possible sources listed in your link, only one referred to hair.
Quote from: Tamas on April 19, 2012, 07:53:53 AM
I hate to bust Swedish bubbles, but, as one example, the Hungarian language has always been gender neutral, and that doesn't really result in a more tolerant, or enlightened society when it came to gender roles and such.
Did you contact the Swedish embassy? I imagine they'd want to know as soon as possible.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mickeyray.com%2F3-stooges_curly.jpg&hash=87415eefe344f8110d803d1cc9750994a3598229)
Not a whole lot of hair to work with. :hmm:
The word does seem to come from hair.
The first examples of curl as a verb for twisting ringlets into hair come from the 14th and 15th century. In the early 17th century to curl starts to mean to cause a curl or twist or undulation. It's that verb that's then used in curling. Interestingly - separately - it seems the Flems developed a similar-ish game and used the same sort of words 'krullebol' (curl-bowl) to describe their stone and sport based on its movement on the ice.
That in no way demeans what is a magnificent sport.
It doesn't even matter to me which came first. In modern usage, curling is much more associated with hair than with some ice sport.
I thought the Brain was clear example of Swedish gender neutrality. :huh:
Quote from: katmai on April 19, 2012, 12:37:35 PM
I thought the Brain was clear example of Swedish gender neutrality. :huh:
Yep, as long as it has four legs he is happy.
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2012, 12:35:15 PM
It doesn't even matter to me which came first. In modern usage, curling is much more associated with hair than with some ice sport.
Not in Canada. :Canuck:
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 19, 2012, 12:16:17 PM
Interestingly - separately - it seems the Flems developed a similar-ish game and used the same sort of words 'krullebol' (curl-bowl) to describe their stone and sport based on its movement on the ice.
weird. Searched for it and the closest I got was pétanque, which seems to have been just one of the games that falls under the term "krullebollen". Funky, I've only heard the word being used in relation to hair, and I'm guessing that'll go for must of the dutchspeakers.
I love how a short statement about combining men and women's pool leagues led to an indept sports discussion.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 19, 2012, 12:49:05 PM
weird. Searched for it and the closest I got was pétanque, which seems to have been just one of the games that falls under the term "krullebollen". Funky, I've only heard the word being used in relation to hair, and I'm guessing that'll go for must of the dutchspeakers.
From the OED:
QuoteIt appears in its earlier form to have been akin to Quoits, but has now more analogy with Bowls, with modifications consequent upon the situation. A game similar to it in its early form appears in Flanders a1600; Kilian has kluyten kalluyten, 'ludere massis siue globis glaciatis; certare discis in æquore glaciato', to play a match with quoits on a smooth surface of ice. The name appears to describe the motion given to the stone. In Flemish the name krullebol (curl-bowl) is given, apparently from its motion, to the wooden bowl with which a somewhat similar game bolspel is played in an alley.
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 09:31:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2012, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 18, 2012, 06:22:11 AM
Like calling curling a sport.
:ultra:
You try dragging a 40lb hunk of granite down a sheet of ice using nothing but a broom for two hours before telling me curling isn't a sport.
I bet hauling boulders up hills with nothing but a broom is pretty difficult as well but that isn't a sport either.
You're right, it isn't. Nobody in the world plays a sport involving hauling bolders up hills.
But quite a few people do play the silly ass game of curling.
Yeah, yeah. Olympic level skill is required I'm sure.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 20, 2012, 09:01:12 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 09:31:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2012, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2012, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 18, 2012, 06:22:11 AM
Like calling curling a sport.
:ultra:
You try dragging a 40lb hunk of granite down a sheet of ice using nothing but a broom for two hours before telling me curling isn't a sport.
I bet hauling boulders up hills with nothing but a broom is pretty difficult as well but that isn't a sport either.
You're right, it isn't. Nobody in the world plays a sport involving hauling bolders up hills.
But quite a few people do play the silly ass game of curling.
Yeah, yeah. Olympic level skill is required I'm sure.
You have no idea.
I consider myself a decent curler, play once or twice a week, do some practicing.
Our team played the Yukon/NWT championship team a few times. They would blow us out of the water.
Then of course I've watched them play in the Canadian men's championship. The really good teams would blow them out of the water. It's scary how good a team like Kevin Martin's is, and requires a huge amount of practice - and definitely on par with any other winter olympian.
As long as shooting's an Olympic sport I think all others are free from criticism.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 20, 2012, 09:07:32 AM
As long as shooting's an Olympic sport I think all others are free from criticism.
You assume people are willing to grant the IOC the power to determine what is and isn't a sport. We don't. Shooting's not a sport, neither is bowling. Jury's out on curling.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 20, 2012, 09:26:31 AM
You assume people are willing to grant the IOC the power to determine what is and isn't a sport. We don't. Shooting's not a sport, neither is bowling. Jury's out on curling.
How about that carriage driving business? That's some gripping shit.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 20, 2012, 09:26:31 AM
You assume people are willing to grant the IOC the power to determine what is and isn't a sport. We don't. Shooting's not a sport, neither is bowling. Jury's out on curling.
A friend of mine refuses to accept that basketball or tennis are sports so I know what you mean :lol:
I was just picking up on Wag's slight of the 'Olympic' skill required for curling. I'm sure everyone agrees that the IOC do define what is an Olympic sport.
Seems to me this is just a slippage of terminology. "Olympic class athlete" means something, "olympic class sport" does not.
Quote from: Barrister on April 19, 2012, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2012, 12:35:15 PM
It doesn't even matter to me which came first. In modern usage, curling is much more associated with hair than with some ice sport.
Not in Canada. :Canuck:
Or anywhere. When you Google 'Curling', you get the sport.
Quote from: Neil on April 20, 2012, 10:13:39 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 19, 2012, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2012, 12:35:15 PM
It doesn't even matter to me which came first. In modern usage, curling is much more associated with hair than with some ice sport.
Not in Canada. :Canuck:
Or anywhere. When you Google 'Curling', you get the sport.
Good point. When I google "curling" I went through the first 100 links. 99 of them are for the sport of curling. Only item 34 isa non-sport hit (some movie called Curling, which also has nothing to do with hair).
I guess I'm open to the possibility that someone using google in a different country would get different results, but I doubt it.
I'm guessing that's a function of sites associated with hair curling using curler, curled, or curls much more than curling.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 20, 2012, 09:07:32 AM
As long as shooting's an Olympic sport I think all others are free from criticism.
I think "sport" is a wide enough term to include shooting, as well as curling, bowling, etc. To me a sport is any competitive even that requires dexterity or physical ability (or some combination of both).
I wouldn't consider shooting or bowling to be athletic events, per se, but I think they are fairly classified as sports. I would call curling semi-athletic.
Quote from: Neil on April 20, 2012, 10:13:39 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 19, 2012, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2012, 12:35:15 PM
It doesn't even matter to me which came first. In modern usage, curling is much more associated with hair than with some ice sport.
Not in Canada. :Canuck:
Or anywhere. When you Google 'Curling', you get the sport.
Yet the sport is still widely mocked and derided, at least in part for its name.
Quote from: derspiess on April 20, 2012, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: Neil on April 20, 2012, 10:13:39 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 19, 2012, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2012, 12:35:15 PM
It doesn't even matter to me which came first. In modern usage, curling is much more associated with hair than with some ice sport.
Not in Canada. :Canuck:
Or anywhere. When you Google 'Curling', you get the sport.
Yet the sport is still widely mocked and derided, at least in part for its name.
Within your house doesn't count as "widely mocked and derided".
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 11:50:44 AM
Within your house doesn't count as "widely mocked and derided".
Indeed. Most people either have never heard of it, or forget its existence as soon as the Winter Olympics end. :homestar:
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 11:50:44 AM
Within your house doesn't count as "widely mocked and derided".
It ain't just my house.
Actually, it's not mocked in my house at all. Wife & kids have no idea what it is and I'm largely indifferent to it, though I'll watch it with some interest during the Olympics.
But I do know it's been the subject of a lot of jokes since its inclusion in the Olympics. I just wish they had picked a better name.
Btw, have you guys tried googling "curlers"? I don't see a lot of curling players show up in the results :P
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 10:29:13 AMGood point. When I google "curling" I went through the first 100 links. 99 of them are for the sport of curling. Only item 34 isa non-sport hit (some movie called Curling, which also has nothing to do with hair).
I guess I'm open to the possibility that someone using google in a different country would get different results, but I doubt it.
While I'm on your side in the curling vs curling debate, I believe that google does tailor its hits to the information it has on its searcher so the results you get for curling might be different from those, say, a hair dresser might get.
Quote from: Jacob on April 20, 2012, 12:41:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 10:29:13 AMGood point. When I google "curling" I went through the first 100 links. 99 of them are for the sport of curling. Only item 34 isa non-sport hit (some movie called Curling, which also has nothing to do with hair).
I guess I'm open to the possibility that someone using google in a different country would get different results, but I doubt it.
While I'm on your side in the curling vs curling debate, I believe that google does tailor its hits to the information it has on its searcher so the results you get for curling might be different from those, say, a hair dresser might get.
Which is why I mentioned that possibility, and was hoping someone else would try the same search.
By the way speiss, when I google curlers this is my first result:
www.curlerscorner.com/ - guess what kind of curlers they are talking about. :p
The results after that are about 60/40 for hair/sport.
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 12:47:03 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 20, 2012, 12:41:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 10:29:13 AMGood point. When I google "curling" I went through the first 100 links. 99 of them are for the sport of curling. Only item 34 isa non-sport hit (some movie called Curling, which also has nothing to do with hair).
I guess I'm open to the possibility that someone using google in a different country would get different results, but I doubt it.
While I'm on your side in the curling vs curling debate, I believe that google does tailor its hits to the information it has on its searcher so the results you get for curling might be different from those, say, a hair dresser might get.
Which is why I mentioned that possibility, and was hoping someone else would try the same search.
By the way speiss, when I google curlers this is my first result:
www.curlerscorner.com/ - guess what kind of curlers they are talking about. :p
The results after that are about 60/40 for hair/sport.
Well, I logged out of my gmail account so that I don't get my tailored search results, and out of the whole first page of results I get one related to the sport, and it's third from the bottom. Second page has nothing related to the sport, neither does the third or fourth. Almost everything is related to hair or eyelash curlers.
And here's my first result: http://www.target.com/s/curlers
Another damned Curling hijack. :glare:
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 20, 2012, 01:24:12 PM
Another damned Curling hijack. :glare:
:scots:
Wags started it.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 20, 2012, 01:33:41 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 20, 2012, 01:24:12 PM
Another damned Curling hijack. :glare:
:scots:
Wags started it.
Blame rolls uphill to you automatically.
But of course. Wags merely gave me the opening. :cool:
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 20, 2012, 01:24:12 PM
Another damned Curling hijack. :glare:
Be honest. Is that worse than talking about "a gender neutral society"?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 20, 2012, 01:39:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 20, 2012, 01:24:12 PM
Another damned Curling hijack. :glare:
Be honest. Is that worse than talking about "a gender neutral society"?
Yes.
What makes Swedes go neutral? Lust for Gold? Power? Or were they just born with a heart full of neutrality?
Quote from: Valmy on April 20, 2012, 01:41:11 PM
What makes Swedes go neutral? Lust for Gold? Power? Or were they just born with a heart full of neutrality?
Shush you - we're talking about curling.
So what is everyone's opinion on the free guard zone rule?
Quote from: Valmy on April 20, 2012, 01:41:11 PM
What makes Swedes go neutral? Lust for Gold? Power? Or were they just born with a heart full of neutrality?
Realization they could never win a war.
Quote from: derspiess on April 20, 2012, 01:22:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 12:47:03 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 20, 2012, 12:41:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 10:29:13 AMGood point. When I google "curling" I went through the first 100 links. 99 of them are for the sport of curling. Only item 34 isa non-sport hit (some movie called Curling, which also has nothing to do with hair).
I guess I'm open to the possibility that someone using google in a different country would get different results, but I doubt it.
While I'm on your side in the curling vs curling debate, I believe that google does tailor its hits to the information it has on its searcher so the results you get for curling might be different from those, say, a hair dresser might get.
Which is why I mentioned that possibility, and was hoping someone else would try the same search.
By the way speiss, when I google curlers this is my first result:
www.curlerscorner.com/ - guess what kind of curlers they are talking about. :p
The results after that are about 60/40 for hair/sport.
Well, I logged out of my gmail account so that I don't get my tailored search results, and out of the whole first page of results I get one related to the sport, and it's third from the bottom. Second page has nothing related to the sport, neither does the third or fourth. Almost everything is related to hair or eyelash curlers.
And here's my first result: http://www.target.com/s/curlers
Now do the same search for "curling".
If you're looking for info, you'd be searching for the name of the sport, not the name of the players. You'd search golf, not golfers.
Not if you have a fetish for knickerbockers and flat caps.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 20, 2012, 01:43:46 PM
Realization they could never win a war.
Denmark is a pretty formidable force. See how they intimidated Canada.
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 01:47:25 PM
Now do the same search for "curling".
I'll take your word for it. I've already searched for "curlers" here at work. I don't want to set off any more alarms here than I have to :P
QuoteIf you're looking for info, you'd be searching for the name of the sport, not the name of the players. You'd search golf, not golfers.
Very true. But searching for golfers only returns items related to people who play that sport. I don't see any feminine beauty hits there (particularly if you're searching for LPGA :D ).
Quote from: derspiess on April 20, 2012, 02:02:12 PM
Very true. But searching for golfers only returns items related to people who play that sport. I don't see any feminine beauty hits there (particularly if you're searching for LPGA :D ).
I beg to differ. :contract:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-YksIdbw3nrg%2FTYyWQkgtjhI%2FAAAAAAAAAkw%2FKLyyc9MvAxM%2Fs400%2FMichelle-Wie-180.jpg&hash=5a0ac759da02ff8cb3bf53d2b2f985e54b11dc28)
She got purty, so I stand corrected.
I went to an LPGA event back in 1996 and stil can't get the horrific images out of my mind.
Just for kicks I did am google image search for "women curlers".
What a bizarre mix of hott women curlers, fugly women curlers, and of course, women in curlers. :lol:
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2012, 03:34:21 PM
Just for kicks I did am google image search for "women curlers".
What a bizarre mix of hott women curlers, fugly women curlers, and of course, women in curlers. :lol:
The German team had a cute redhead:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.curling-dcv.de%2Fgrafiken%2F09_EM_Damen_Sieger.JPG&hash=3b0ba6037ed45bb5f9d5399d53e971c43f76dfb7)
Turns out her name is Stelle Heiß. Heiß being German for "hot".
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abendblatt.de%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F00340%2Fschoen_gal1_5_HA_Sp_340152b.jpg&hash=c90540d625a92aaea99312701052414d8baf20f4)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww4.pictures.zimbio.com%2Fgi%2FCurling%2BDay%2B10%2BRb-_Ci0t23Wl.jpg&hash=40e329dafdced0bc0cbf62258363fc3fcf38623d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_5--ca8rX4ks%2FSyDm5MznplI%2FAAAAAAAAMlg%2FresHkuIpcAw%2Fs400%2FLead-Germany-2.jpg&hash=949db1f589ae4e74f06bd959b0f94e1f19158eea)
Eskimo bowling is not a sport.
Quote from: Valmy on April 20, 2012, 01:41:11 PM
What makes Swedes go neutral? Lust for Gold? Power? Or were they just born with a heart full of neutrality?
a surplus of ballbearings