Now this is new: 'Diversity' new euphemism for less Asians? http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news/2012/01/27/diversity-remains-issue-despite-efforts
These are the demographics for the class of Freshmen from Texas High Schools that hit campus at the University of Texas at Austin last fall: 46% White 6% Black 23% Latino 19% Asian 6% Other (Other usually means Pacific Islander/Native American/Mixed Race person of some flavor)
These are the demographics of Texas according to the last census: 45.3% White 11.8% Black 37.6% Latino 3.8% Asian 1.5% Other
I mean the obvious over-representation here is the enormous numbers of Asians of various flavors. But still just because Asians are way over-represented in top educational institutions that is hardly a diversity issue, I mean the Asians themselves are a ridiculously diverse group being the loosest definition of an ethnic group in world history.
Yet this article says this:
QuoteThe senator said tuition increases keep minority students from attending public universities.
Asians: not minorities? They make up 4% of the population.
Quote"I think the University should make the efforts to reach out to students of color so they know there's a way to get to a higher education program," Durman said.
Asians are aparently not people of color. Who knew? Also it seems having nearly 30% of the students being Black and Latino seems sufficient for them to know there is a way to get into UT Austin.
It is just sort of amusing that this article seems to be calling for less Asians and more Latinos and Blacks but for some reason cannot come out and say it. 'This University suffers from yellow peril!'
Asians don't enjoy protected minority status. Is that news to you?
Why do you think I vote Republican?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2012, 04:33:58 PM
Asians don't enjoy protected minority status. Is that news to you?
Why do you think I vote Republican?
I have just never seen it stated so brazenly before. That a group that consists of everybody from Turks to the Japanese and everybody in between is not diverse.
The thing I don't get is how Latinos made the cut but Asians didn't.
Did they find themselves in '82?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2012, 04:52:10 PM
The thing I don't get is how Latinos made the cut but Asians didn't.
It could just be because they are still such a small group here that nobody feels the need to pander to them...but I guess it is the same in California where they are not so small.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2012, 04:33:58 PM
Asians don't enjoy protected minority status. Is that news to you?
Why do you think I vote Republican?
Technically, that's not what the laws on racial discrimination say.
In practice, it probably often works out that way.
Quote from: ValmyThat a group that consists of everybody from Turks to the Japanese and everybody in between is not diverse.
Wouldn't most Turks and Arabs in the US identify themselves as white?
Quote from: dps on January 27, 2012, 05:07:44 PM
Wouldn't most Turks and Arabs in the US identify themselves as white?
Why would they? No idea. In that case the article failed again by showing an obviously Middle Eastern woman as an example of an 'Asian'.
Well they are obviously not a minority, there are billions of those little guys running around.
North African Arabs get all the perks of being officially Black, right?
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2012, 05:18:25 PM
North African Arabs get all the perks of being officially Black, right?
In Texas they are all classes as "terrorists"
Quote from: PDH on January 27, 2012, 05:21:20 PM
In Texas they are all classes as "terrorists"
Truth! That and 'Camel Jockeys'.
Anyway, this was the first thing that came into my head when I saw this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qid_WGBrQjA
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 05:12:16 PM
Quote from: dps on January 27, 2012, 05:07:44 PM
Wouldn't most Turks and Arabs in the US identify themselves as white?
Why would they? No idea. In that case the article failed again by showing an obviously Middle Eastern woman as an example of an 'Asian'.
Most Arab-Americans I know are pretty light skinned. I'm not sure that I actually know any Turkish Americans, but I'd assume that they're the same, as a rule.
My experience in Tennessee has been that Syrians, Turks, and such can claim to be white and be treated as such with great rate of success, while north africa/arabian peninsula arabs are a strange "other" element that isn't accepted into social circles.
Minorities that are successful cease to be treated as minorities, hence the idea that minorities do badly because of nasty white people can be maintained.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2012, 04:52:10 PM
The thing I don't get is how Latinos made the cut but Asians didn't.
Failure to organise politically?
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 27, 2012, 05:49:48 PM
Minorities that are successful cease to be treated as minorities, hence the idea that minorities do badly because of nasty white people can be maintained.
What about gays? We are richer and have better jobs on average, yet we are considered a minority. :hmm:
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 04:29:44 PM
Asians are aparently not people of color.
Well, milky-light-yellow is not much of a color, to be honest. Try painting your walls with that - it comes off almost as white.
Quote from: Martinus on January 27, 2012, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 27, 2012, 05:49:48 PM
Minorities that are successful cease to be treated as minorities, hence the idea that minorities do badly because of nasty white people can be maintained.
What about gays? We are richer and have better jobs on average, yet we are considered a minority. :hmm:
Are you?
I hadn't heard that is the case, higher disposable incomes certainly, but maybe not absolute incomes.
Quote from: Martinus on January 27, 2012, 06:06:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 04:29:44 PM
Asians are aparently not people of color.
Well, milky-light-yellow is not much of a color, to be honest. Try painting your walls with that - it comes off almost as white.
That's just the Japanese.
Gay isn't a race, silly.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2012, 04:33:58 PM
Asians don't enjoy protected minority status. Is that news to you?
Why do you think I vote Republican?
I thought it was because your parents were rich and you didn't want to pay taxes on their estate when they finally die.
Quote from: Martinus on January 27, 2012, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 27, 2012, 05:49:48 PM
Minorities that are successful cease to be treated as minorities, hence the idea that minorities do badly because of nasty white people can be maintained.
What about gays? We are richer and have better jobs on average, yet we are considered a minority. :hmm:
Is that why you pretend to be gay? So we'll think you are rich and have a good job?
Quote from: Martinus on January 27, 2012, 06:06:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 04:29:44 PM
Asians are aparently not people of color.
Well, milky-light-yellow is not much of a color, to be honest. Try painting your walls with that - it comes off almost as white.
Um...Indians and Pakistanis? We have at least as many of them as East Asians here in Texas.
America is doing it totally the wrong way. Race shouldn't matter at all for university entry these days.
What should matter however is wealth.
Poor white kids don't deserve to be lumped in with the rich white kids who traditionally dominate, they belong more with the poor black kids who traditionally were screwed over but now get a big leg up...as do the rich black kids.
If Asians want to study hard then all power to them- though I do hope universities consider more than pure test scores in picking their students.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2012, 04:33:58 PM
Asians don't enjoy protected minority status. Is that news to you?
Why do you think I vote Republican?
Qualified evil.
:P
Quote from: Martinus on January 27, 2012, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 27, 2012, 05:49:48 PM
Minorities that are successful cease to be treated as minorities, hence the idea that minorities do badly because of nasty white people can be maintained.
What about gays? We are richer and have better jobs on average, yet we are considered a minority. :hmm:
A sexual minority, there is a difference, you know...
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2012, 04:59:25 PM
Did they find themselves in '82?
The disco hot spots held no charm for them
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 27, 2012, 06:13:20 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 27, 2012, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 27, 2012, 05:49:48 PM
Minorities that are successful cease to be treated as minorities, hence the idea that minorities do badly because of nasty white people can be maintained.
What about gays? We are richer and have better jobs on average, yet we are considered a minority. :hmm:
Are you?
I hadn't heard that is the case, higher disposable incomes certainly, but maybe not absolute incomes.
I would actually be curious how the average income/wealth level compares for gays/lesbians and non-gays/lesbians.
@Marti - I suspect it would be higher, but there are some important distorting factors.
Firstly, gay people often spend time in the closet and then come out. So, to take your case as an example, in the early stages of your career, on a smaller salary, you would be counted as non-gay (I guess).
Another factor might be that people in lower income groups are less likely to come out due to greater homophobia in those circles. Or, as with a number of people that I know, they were "hetero" in their godforsaken pit villages in Durham, but openly gay as soon as they got to London or Brighton - a move which also resulted in higher incomes.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 28, 2012, 04:35:24 AM
@Marti - I suspect it would be higher, but there are some important distorting factors.
Firstly, gay people often spend time in the closet and then come out. So, to take your case as an example, in the early stages of your career, on a smaller salary, you would be counted as non-gay (I guess).
Another factor might be that people in lower income groups are less likely to come out due to greater homophobia in those circles. Or, as with a number of people that I know, they were "hetero" in their godforsaken pit villages in Durham, but openly gay as soon as they got to London or Brighton - a move which also resulted in higher incomes.
Actually, while you make some good points, I earlier thought about it and reached completely opposite conclusions. :D
There are many low paid jobs where you can be openly gay and this will not hurt you in any meaningful way. On the other hand (while it is changing), most high paid job positions (excluding some outliers like entertainment) are fairly homophobic old boys' networks - law firms, boardrooms and halls of power are imo more likely to be riddled with closeted (or at least closeted on a much deeper level) gays (and also have less gays, whether closeted or not, in general) than beauty parlors and H&M stores.
How many openly gay people are there on Forbes' top 100 richest people lists?
Leave the H&M stores out of this please.
Quote from: The Brain on January 28, 2012, 04:45:34 AM
Leave the H&M stores out of this please.
Why? They are like hives for gay activity.
Quote from: Martinus on January 28, 2012, 04:46:24 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 28, 2012, 04:45:34 AM
Leave the H&M stores out of this please.
Why? They are like hives for gay activity.
Keep Swedish companies out of this.
There might be a difference between Poland and the UK here, or perhaps I am simply ignorant of how homophobic people are at the top levels.
Another factor is that having children is a great motivator to get out there and make money, so it may be that a lot of gay people are not so driven as their hetero-with-kids counterparts. I read an interesting article a few years ago about how much women earned by ethnicity in the UK. Apparently the highest earning group were African-Carribean women. Two things about that group, a high proportion live in London and they also have the highest proportion of single parents.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 28, 2012, 04:49:24 AM
There might be a difference between Poland and the UK here, or perhaps I am simply ignorant of how homophobic people are at the top levels.
Another factor is that having children is a great motivator to get out there and make money, so it may be that a lot of gay people are not so driven as their hetero-with-kids counterparts. I read an interesting article a few years ago about how much women earned by ethnicity in the UK. Apparently the highest earning group were African-Carribean women. Two things about that group, a high proportion live in London and they also have the highest proportion of single parents.
Man, don't give me the "UK is a paradise" spiel. Any changes in this regard are a product of the last decade and they didn't take much hold yet. :lol:
I don't think bringing in a gay outlier like the UK adds much to the discussion.
Quote from: Martinus on January 28, 2012, 05:01:31 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 28, 2012, 04:49:24 AM
There might be a difference between Poland and the UK here, or perhaps I am simply ignorant of how homophobic people are at the top levels.
Another factor is that having children is a great motivator to get out there and make money, so it may be that a lot of gay people are not so driven as their hetero-with-kids counterparts. I read an interesting article a few years ago about how much women earned by ethnicity in the UK. Apparently the highest earning group were African-Carribean women. Two things about that group, a high proportion live in London and they also have the highest proportion of single parents.
Man, don't give me the "UK is a paradise" spiel. Any changes in this regard are a product of the last decade and they didn't take much hold yet. :lol:
One interesting factoid for you, there are 5,000 professional football players in England.............none of them are gay :P
Quote from: Tyr on January 27, 2012, 10:48:37 PM
America is doing it totally the wrong way. Race shouldn't matter at all for university entry these days.
What should matter however is wealth.
Poor white kids don't deserve to be lumped in with the rich white kids who traditionally dominate, they belong more with the poor black kids who traditionally were screwed over but now get a big leg up...as do the rich black kids.
If Asians want to study hard then all power to them- though I do hope universities consider more than pure test scores in picking their students.
I don't think that you understand how university admissions work in the US. A lot of American colleges and universities have open admissions--basically, if you have a high school diploma or a GED, you can get in. Now that doesn't hold true with the more elite schools, but your typical state school, yeah.
Quote from: dps on January 28, 2012, 06:15:02 AM
I don't think that you understand how university admissions work in the US. A lot of American colleges and universities have open admissions--basically, if you have a high school diploma or a GED, you can get in. Now that doesn't hold true with the more elite schools, but your typical state school, yeah.
Maybe the schools that are causing a university college to be useless. If there isn't some toil to get into college (even if that toil is just getting good grades at a junior college and then transferring to a UC), what's the point?
It isn't the getting in to college, it's the getting out with a degree.
Quote from: ulmont on January 28, 2012, 11:30:26 AM
It isn't the getting in to college, it's the getting out with a degree.
Which is trivially easy.
Over 40 percent of people don't complete a 4 year degree in even 6 years, indicating achieving a degree is not trivially easy.
Quote from: garbon on January 28, 2012, 11:47:09 AM
Quote from: ulmont on January 28, 2012, 11:30:26 AM
It isn't the getting in to college, it's the getting out with a degree.
Which is trivially easy.
For you. My livelihood depends on repeat customers :)
Quote from: ulmont on January 28, 2012, 12:14:15 PM
Over 40 percent of people don't complete a 4 year degree in even 6 years, indicating achieving a degree is not trivially easy.
I wonder how much that has to do with lack of application (i.e. putting said degree on hold while focusing on a job) than any actual difficulty of getting a diploma.
Quote from: garbon on January 28, 2012, 10:04:52 AM
Quote from: dps on January 28, 2012, 06:15:02 AM
I don't think that you understand how university admissions work in the US. A lot of American colleges and universities have open admissions--basically, if you have a high school diploma or a GED, you can get in. Now that doesn't hold true with the more elite schools, but your typical state school, yeah.
Maybe the schools that are causing a university college to be useless. If there isn't some toil to get into college (even if that toil is just getting good grades at a junior college and then transferring to a UC), what's the point?
I was neither defending or attacking the concept of open admisssions, merely pointing out its existance.
Quote from: garbonQuote from: ulmontOver 40 percent of people don't complete a 4 year degree in even 6 years, indicating achieving a degree is not trivially easy.
I wonder how much that has to do with lack of application (i.e. putting said degree on hold while focusing on a job) than any actual difficulty of getting a diploma.
I don't have any stats on the issue, but FWIW, anecdotally I know more people who dropped out because they either got a job offer as good as they could expect to have gotten with a degree, or who simply needed a full-time income and couldn't afford to stay in school than people who flunked out.
Yeah, getting a degree is pretty darn easy.
Getting one with good grades is a bit more challenging but just getting something...anyone can do it.
Quote
I don't think that you understand how university admissions work in the US. A lot of American colleges and universities have open admissions--basically, if you have a high school diploma or a GED, you can get in. Now that doesn't hold true with the more elite schools, but your typical state school, yeah.[/-/quote]
ey? You don't have admissions like in other countries? You just let anyone in?
I'm sure I've seen in stuff set in American high schools people worrying about getting into X or Y university and having to apply.
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 10:42:18 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 27, 2012, 06:06:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 04:29:44 PM
Asians are aparently not people of color.
Well, milky-light-yellow is not much of a color, to be honest. Try painting your walls with that - it comes off almost as white.
Um...Indians and Pakistanis? We have at least as many of them as East Asians here in Texas.
But it's the
white Asians that are overrepresented in college while the
black Asians aren't. :contract:
Whatchu talkin bout, Tim. There's tons of Indians in college.
I'm glad that we can bring black and white as differences within each "race".
I never went to college.
I feel inadecuate here in Languish.
I wouldn't worry about the resident intellectuals. "Inte" in Swedish means "not".
Quote from: The Brain on January 29, 2012, 04:47:17 PM
I wouldn't worry about the resident intellectuals. "Inte" in Swedish means "not".
What wisdom is there to be found in Sweden?
Quote from: garbon on January 29, 2012, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 29, 2012, 04:47:17 PM
I wouldn't worry about the resident intellectuals. "Inte" in Swedish means "not".
What wisdom is there to be found in Sweden?
Viking.
I thought he was from Iceland?
Quote from: PDH on January 29, 2012, 04:53:36 PM
I thought he was from Iceland?
You're thinking of the giant ash cloud.
Same thing, really.