Well, I'll try my luck.
I'm at one of the "big 4" consultancies. I came in with a company takeover, and the first few years were actually quite fun, assignments decent, prospects looked good and all that.
Then things slowly detoriated. Lots of promises from the first years on promotions and responsibilities never fulfilled. And so my motivation has dropped, and now from working hard to deliver goals I have a hard time motivating myself to even deliver on assignments.
Paired with that I have felt the turmoil of being a "bought in company" the bosses who came in with me at senior levels, and who made the goals, promises, and then negated on them have all been replaced, in fact i've had 3 different senior line managers (partners and directors) in 12 months.
So, I find I want a new job and I activate my network. Basically I had come to the conclusion I should get out of consultancy and back into industry (I used to work in tobacco and beer companies).
And here is the catch. The ones responding fastest and most aggressively are other consultancy companies. I've taken their offer of interviews to feel out the market and get a bit of rust knocked of my interviewing skills, as well as get a better bearing on what I want. And now I think I may land a good offer with one of the other companies right below the big4. After a long proces I met with the senior partner and I think it went well.
However, I still feel that while I tend to like consultancy assignments proffessionally, I am not too keen on the working atmosphere when it comes to the aggressive pursue of hours, the big focus on sales for the sake of sales (all the way down to cold canvassing) and the everlasting long hours needed (with two boys 11+8)
On the other hand, the current job is a 9 out of 10 on the choke factor, and I see no way out of the rut I'm being pushed into, in part due to the association I have with the semi failed integration of the company I came in with.
My dilemma therefore is:
Do I gut it out, accepting shitty assignments with no possibility of advancements or reaching bonus goals, hoping the right "industry" job comes after summer?
Or, do I take the other job, pursuing better assignments, hoping that I will regain the will to live (or just work) and then jump ship if the right job appears down the line in 6-8-12-24 months?
V
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeoliveri.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F01%2Fmilton.jpeg&hash=c2854ed084f1ecb496e096cf1713eae4875ed970)
Quote from: Slargos on June 09, 2011, 06:21:31 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeoliveri.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F01%2Fmilton.jpeg&hash=c2854ed084f1ecb496e096cf1713eae4875ed970)
Is that you? :D
V
Hasn't been me for over a decade. :P
I have no experience with the corporate rat-race, but I feel like I want to laugh at your misfortune nonetheless. :sleep:
Quote from: Slargos on June 09, 2011, 06:28:12 AM
Hasn't been me for over a decade. :P
It used to be you then? :o
V
There are a LOT of things which are better than the corporate world.
Wearing pink t-shirts and selling kitchen furniture is not one of them.
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2011, 06:39:57 AM
There are a LOT of things which are better than the corporate world.
Wearing pink t-shirts and selling kitchen furniture is not one of them.
:lol:
How would you know, being a corporate slave yourself. :hmm:
Quote from: Slargos on June 09, 2011, 06:41:51 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2011, 06:39:57 AM
There are a LOT of things which are better than the corporate world.
Wearing pink t-shirts and selling kitchen furniture is not one of them.
:lol:
How would you know, being a corporate slave yourself. :hmm:
That's exactly how I know it: I'd never exchange one for the other :contract:
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2011, 06:53:30 AM
Quote from: Slargos on June 09, 2011, 06:41:51 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2011, 06:39:57 AM
There are a LOT of things which are better than the corporate world.
Wearing pink t-shirts and selling kitchen furniture is not one of them.
:lol:
How would you know, being a corporate slave yourself. :hmm:
That's exactly how I know it: I'd never exchange one for the other :contract:
You
could never.
There is a not very subtle difference. :hug:
@V - Sounds like you know what you want to do (leave consultancy) but are concerned about the ramifications of abandoning ship. Any appealing non-consultancy prospects?
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2011, 07:01:07 AM
@V - Sounds like you know what you want to do (leave consultancy) but are concerned about the ramifications of abandoning ship. Any appealing non-consultancy prospects?
Not here and now, and the thing is I LIKE the consultancy assignments, thats the kind of advisory role i'm really good at.. its the consultancy workplace, and in particullar the one I'm at, that I'm fed up with
V
Quote from: Valdemar on June 09, 2011, 07:02:58 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2011, 07:01:07 AM
@V - Sounds like you know what you want to do (leave consultancy) but are concerned about the ramifications of abandoning ship. Any appealing non-consultancy prospects?
Not here and now, and the thing is I LIKE the consultancy assignments, thats the kind of advisory role i'm really good at.. its the consultancy workplace, and in particullar the one I'm at, that I'm fed up with
V
Be your own independent consultant? :hug:
I wouldn't have the nerves for that.
V
Quote from: jamesww on June 09, 2011, 06:20:24 AM
QuoteRe: Can one get serious career advise at languish?
Probably not.
Sure you can. You just need to keep in mind who is giving the advice and totally disregard as appropriate. :)
I'd take the next best opportunity you were offered. I don't think 'environment' is as big a factor as others do. People tend to like their jobs when they feel they are being fairly compensated, have opportunity for growth, and like their co-workers, regardless of the type of environment or nature of the business.
Quote from: Slargos on June 09, 2011, 06:58:18 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2011, 06:53:30 AM
Quote from: Slargos on June 09, 2011, 06:41:51 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2011, 06:39:57 AM
There are a LOT of things which are better than the corporate world.
Wearing pink t-shirts and selling kitchen furniture is not one of them.
:lol:
How would you know, being a corporate slave yourself. :hmm:
That's exactly how I know it: I'd never exchange one for the other :contract:
You could never.
There is a not very subtle difference. :hug:
Well, true enough, there is a level of honor above which one becomes incapable of acting as a salesman. :)
Quote from: Caliga on June 09, 2011, 07:21:23 AM
Sure you can. You just need to keep in mind who is giving the advice and totally disregard as appropriate. :)
I would disregard Cal's advice, but that results in a paradox. :unsure:
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2011, 07:38:11 AM
Well, true enough, there is a level of honor above which one becomes incapable of acting as a salesman. :)
:lol:
Whatever you say, Ned.
Quote from: Caliga on June 09, 2011, 07:21:23 AM
Quote from: jamesww on June 09, 2011, 06:20:24 AM
QuoteRe: Can one get serious career advise at languish?
Probably not.
Sure you can. You just need to keep in mind who is giving the advice and totally disregard as appropriate. :)
For instance, take my advice, don't listen to me.
In that case it is perhaps inappropriate to disregard the advice. :)
Is there anything that stops you from taking one of the currently available consultancy positions, reasses and then start looking for the kind of industry job you think you prefer?
The way I look at it is that if you're waiting around for your ideal job, there's no reason not to do so in a less miserable position in a new job. And who knows, maybe it'll turn out that the less miserable position is actually very fulfilling. On the other hand, if it isn't, you haven't really lost anything and in most likelihood some of the misery has been abated by the excitement and hubbub of getting into a new position. There's usually a bit of a honeymoon period like that.
To me it sounds like you're a bit afraid of change and using the ideal of perfection to talk you out of the achievable and available good.
In short, pull the trigger. Go. Sitting around and hoping that things get better is miserable.
Quote from: Jacob on June 09, 2011, 10:54:02 AM
In short, pull the trigger. Go. Sitting around and hoping that things get better is miserable.
:yes:
I know lots of people who sit around hoping for that, and it never happens. Meanwhile, they're wasting time and getting stale.
Yeah, I'd say that option seems the best. A job that is slightly less shitty than your current one is still a step in the right direction even if it isn't your ideal job. Just because you're working a less shitty job doesn't mean you have to stop looking for a good one.
On the other hand, would your current employer give you better leverage to find an industry job? If you don't like your current job because of the hours, pressure, and sales culture, are you sure the consulting gig you are contemplating is going to be different?
If you're not happy about your present job situation then leave for something else. Change is generally for the better.
Quote from: The Brain on June 09, 2011, 12:33:47 PM
If you're not happy about your present job situation then leave for something else. Change is generally for the better.
So you're a follower of Tzeentch. I always had you pegged (ahem) as more of a Slaanesh guy.
Quote from: Jacob on June 09, 2011, 12:36:43 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 09, 2011, 12:33:47 PM
If you're not happy about your present job situation then leave for something else. Change is generally for the better.
So you're a follower of Tzeentch. I always had you pegged (ahem) as more of a Slaanesh guy.
I'm flighty.
QuoteAnd so my motivation has dropped, and now from working hard to deliver goals I have a hard time motivating myself to even deliver on assignments.
This right here caught my attention.
If things are so bad you're having trouble even finishing your assignments you need to get out. Now. Before they fire you down the road.
I don't have any experience in consultancy, but I do in law. And everything you described about your job sounds like a big law firm, so I can commiserate. In particular what you describe sounds just like the law firm mergers I have seen - everyone is smiles at first, but eventually people from the smaller firm feel frozen out, and many / most leave within a few years.
There's little downside to going to another consultancy firm and seeing how you like it. You can always leave it further down the road. Don't spend too much time waiting for the "perfect" job - just get a good job.
You already have a Big Four on the resume. Go do what you want now.
Thanks all :)
Most of you say what i feel.. "get out of there before it makes you suicidal" :D
But, I've been givn the warning advice from some contacts in headhunting.. too many and too often a change on your resume needs very good reasoning and is pulling down.
In short, if i change for anoterh consultancy, and then back to industry shortly after it may or may not, depending on my interviewing skills, reflect badly. It is seen as someone not committing or unable to settling and always looking for something else :)
But yeah, BB and others, the big four are very much like a big lawfirm, in particuallr those of them that still has accountants running the show....
V
Quote from: Valdemar on June 09, 2011, 06:18:50 AM
(I used to work in tobacco and beer companies).
Ah. Death merchant then, huh?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 10, 2011, 04:24:51 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on June 09, 2011, 06:18:50 AM
(I used to work in tobacco and beer companies).
Ah. Death merchant then, huh?
yeah, i was considering medical or weapons next. Aren't many weapons facories in DEN though, apart from ships.
I consider consultancy almost a merc at times though :D
V
My brother-in-law is up for a lobbyist position with a well-known defense industry corporation. I think I'm more excited about it than he is.
Hey Valdemar,
I'll echo the majority here - get out and take another consultancy gig if that's what's on offer (I know plenty of people who had your experience - namely that consultants mostly get pitched/headhunted to other consultancies).
While skipping about with short periods in each job can be a bad thing for your resume, going to another consultancy but a short while later deciding that you want out of the consultancy business is a pretty fair narrative that should work fine in an industry interview. Especially since most people working in industry like hearing a consultant confess that consultancy sucks and that someone wants out of it.
Any ideas on where you'd want to go? Any options where you've been previously?
Quote from: bogh on June 10, 2011, 09:17:49 AM
Hey Valdemar,
I'll echo the majority here - get out and take another consultancy gig if that's what's on offer (I know plenty of people who had your experience - namely that consultants mostly get pitched/headhunted to other consultancies).
While skipping about with short periods in each job can be a bad thing for your resume, going to another consultancy but a short while later deciding that you want out of the consultancy business is a pretty fair narrative that should work fine in an industry interview. Especially since most people working in industry like hearing a consultant confess that consultancy sucks and that someone wants out of it.
Any ideas on where you'd want to go? Any options where you've been previously?
Well to a dane it isn't giving too much away to say the tobacco company doesn't have much business left in Denmark ;) There only was one, and they are now british and have sent all production out of the country.
The beer thing, maybe, but not the kind of jobs I want. Issue partly is, I know what i want, and i can get the interviews, but I end up falling at the last interview to someone who has had the exact or close to exact position elsewhere, the safe bet if you will
V
Oh and the "other place" called back today, I've done good, so now they want references from former clients, assignments and possibly bosses :ph34r:
I think this is their last ditch effort to find something wrong with me :shutup:
V
Let me add my voice to those saying, "Get out". From the sound of your post, you're miserable, and the problem is something that systematic to the company you work for, so it's not going to get better. There's no point in waiting around for things to improve.
Quote from: The Brain on June 09, 2011, 12:33:47 PM
If you're not happy about your present job situation then leave for something else. Change is generally for the better.
I was actually going to say something opposite. While change can be good for your mental health (at least in a short run), it is not necessarily for the better, especially if in the new job you do not have clear career prospects ahead of you.
Consider this - are you more likely to get promoted in your new job? If so, why? Consider also that, while you make dislike your current working environment, don't you already have some good grounding/know the "lay of the land" which you will need to learn anew in your new job.
In my experience (nb, I never switched jobs, but talking based on people I worked with who did :P), changing your job is a no-brainer only in one of three cases:
- your position in your current job is untenable and it's clearly something endemic to your current firm (shithead boss who hates you and you can't switch positions within your organization), or
- your new job is clearly better (they pay you significantly more and/or you get an instant or quickly incoming promotion to a much higher position), or
- you simply hate your current job - but in this case it is probably better to switch to something more different from your current position (in your case, don't go to another big four/close competitor, but perhaps look for some boutique or similar agency - I don't know your market quite well, but in my line of work I knew people who switched from an international big M&A lawfirm to small "niche" specialist lawfirm, for that reason).
Quote from: dps on June 10, 2011, 05:56:23 PM
Let me add my voice to those saying, "Get out". From the sound of your post, you're miserable, and the problem is something that systematic to the company you work for, so it's not going to get better. There's no point in waiting around for things to improve.
The question is whether what makes him miserable is just his current job/company or is this something about the industry he works with. If it is the latter, than switching jobs is just wasting time, money and energy.
Quote from: Martinus on June 11, 2011, 02:11:52 AM
Quote from: dps on June 10, 2011, 05:56:23 PM
Let me add my voice to those saying, "Get out". From the sound of your post, you're miserable, and the problem is something that systematic to the company you work for, so it's not going to get better. There's no point in waiting around for things to improve.
The question is whether what makes him miserable is just his current job/company or is this something about the industry he works with. If it is the latter, than switching jobs is just wasting time, money and energy.
Yes, if it's systematic to the industry as a whole, not just his present employer, then switching jobs within the same industry makes little sense.
It is a combination, some of the factors that I hate about my job certainly is industry specific.
OTOH some of the things I love is also industry specific :D
On your list I can sign of on most points
I hate my bosses, and they seem to disregard me/my dep. and the "silo" thinking makes switching lanes harder in my company than industry in generel.
I get a better position and slight raise. I get a better supplementary packages (not much, but still better)
And from the talks I get better assignments due to the different position.
All answers here echo my exact dilema quite well. Is the shitty parts shitty enough to warrant a switch in and off themselves? Or is a switch to another company inthe same industry just going to be like peeing your pant`s? Warm for a short time only?
Time will tell :D
V
They have returned with an offer.
It is slightly higher than my current salary, but the pension scheme is way lower, making the total almost equal, and at the cost of my pension.
Now that i didn't expect....
And they raised a warning flag, at one of the 3 interviews i seemed unmotivated for the tasks ahead and underproductive :ph34r: which they, rightly contributed to the situation where I'm currently at...
V
They have now mailed me. They have a contract ready that I can pick up and go over over the weekend.
I have a strange feeling in my stomach :blush:
I think it is because I'll be leaving my comfort zone and a lot of good colleaques behind. And because their offer is better than what I have, but not THAT much better. I'll have to use some of the proceedings to finance my pensions in ways i didn't.
The assignments over there better be better :ph34r:
V
Good luck. :cool:
Quote from: Valdemar on June 14, 2011, 09:02:34 AM
And they raised a warning flag, at one of the 3 interviews i seemed unmotivated for the tasks ahead and underproductive
You're supposed to wait to get the job to act the Debbie Downer, not during the job interview. But congrats anyway; I would've turned you down.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 24, 2011, 07:05:22 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on June 14, 2011, 09:02:34 AM
And they raised a warning flag, at one of the 3 interviews i seemed unmotivated for the tasks ahead and underproductive
You're supposed to wait to get the job to act the Debbie Downer, not during the job interview. But congrats anyway; I would've turned you down.
Txs cdM, it means especially much coming from you :)
V