Well, I went ahead and got this about a week ago after reading over some of the manual.
Some first impressions, in no particular order, after playing several turns of the Fall Blau scenario, and 1 full turn of the campaign game:
1. The game is not as big as it first seems. Don't get me wrong - it is fucking big, but it is not nearly as ponderous as, say, War in the Pacific. Not even close. Took me maybe a couple hours to do my first German turn of Barbarossa.
2. It could be smaller, imo, without detracting from what it is setting out to do. There seems to be a lot of shit in there that I am not sure adds anything to to gameplay or *interesting* decisions, but does add to a lot of the sense of "wtf am I supposed to do with that, anyway?" A good example is the attachments. You have all these attachment units that do not appear on the map, but can be attached to units to augment them. But they can be attached at all different levels. So - do you attach your heavy AT battalion to a Army HQ? Corps? Directly to a division? Who fucking knows? And why do I care? I am sure there is some optimal answer to this question though...
3. The game, for being as big as it is, plays very, very cleanly. The system itself, while almost ridiculously detailed, actual plays pretty simply. Units have MPs, but there is no combat phase - combat is simply a part of movement. You have two different types of combat, hasty and prepared, hasty uses few MPs, but attacker CV is halved and you cannot make multi-hex attacks. Think overruns basically. Prepared you can attack hexes with multiple hexes, but of course it takes a lot more MPs. There is also a greater chance with prepared attacks to get support.
4. The command and control system is fucking awesome. A little unweildy, but fucking awesome. The basic unit is the division (but can be broken down). On the German side, divisions are under Corps, Corps are under armies, armies are under Army Groups, and the Army Groups are under O.K.H. The nice touch here is that various HQs have limited capability to handle units. This I suspect is going to be a big reason why the Soviets are so brittle - their HQs simply do not have the admin capability to manage their units, especially their armor. I am looking forward to playing Barby as the Soviets, if only to take a look at their force structure.
Overall the game is at least as impressive as I hoped it would be, and like considerably mores so. Some design decisions I don't like, but they are livable.
I've been intrigued by the game since it came out. There is no way I can afford to pay for an $80 PC game now, so I will just continue to follow the discussion, and likely never get it.
I have had loads of fun with this. I played the first month and a half or so exclusively against the AI to learn as much as I wanted (and I still don't do all the battalion crap), then I played a couple of hot-seat games against a friend, now I am in my first PBEM and having a ball.
I think this game is well worth the money, given that I now have 3 months of straight gaming, almost exclusively, the dollars are well spent.
I have gotta pick this up and while away my spring break with horrible atrocities on the Ostfront.
Looks good. Let me know when there's a deep price cut. :)
May 2016. :)
Or Matrix's usual Christmas sale at 30% off.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 08, 2011, 07:38:58 PM
Or Matrix's usual Christmas sale at 30% off.
But not until Xmas 2012 probably, and then you won't have enough time to learn to play before the end of the world. :cry:
Getting ready to start a PBEM game with sbr. I shall be the Lebensraum seeking liberators of Kiev.
I've been practicing my opening move airstrikes. The Red Air Force is in some serious trouble. Shooting for 5000 destroyed aircraft on turn 1!
Quote from: Berkut on March 09, 2011, 08:51:01 AM
Getting ready to start a PBEM game with sbr.
:unsure:
Quote from: Syt on March 09, 2011, 11:09:43 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 09, 2011, 08:51:01 AM
Getting ready to start a PBEM game with sbr.
:unsure:
Errh, yeah. I mean you. Probably. All you commies are pretty much the same.
I think I just saw his name on the post above so just typed sbr. hehe.
:lol:
Anyways, I put up a private challenge in that MP thingy.
Private challenge? Hitler dueling Stalin? :hmm:
Hitler in 8th.
Berk, I'll have to make my move tomorrow - I put up the best player ever for trade in my online baseball league yesterday as he's too expensive for my club and I'm launching a rebuild, so I had to sift through a dozen of preliminary offers this evening.
I can see where your priorities lie. :mad:
So, war proceeds on a similar chronological scale, then?
Just as my game got good*, my opponent is away from his computer for a few days. I hope this means he hasn't run off. Apparantly the latest theme is that the Germans stand no chance in this game, and it is BORKEN! (I think it just takes a lot longer to learn how to play the Germans properly - finesse vs a sledgehammer).
*good for me, as the Germans I managed to kinda close the Kiev Pocket in middle August.
As Germans, finding the right balance for the various units' advance is tricky. Be too cautious and you get bogged down quickly. Drive your tanks too deep and they get cut off.
Quote from: Syt on March 11, 2011, 12:18:11 AM
Drive your tanks too deep and they get cut off.
Ruh roh. :cry:
Hmmm, just loaded up Turn 2 of the game against Syt.
1. How do I see a replay of his half of turn 1?
2. Where the fuck did the Russians go????
You don't get a replay, you can see battle sites by hitting "f11"
He might be doing the "Comrade Robin-ski" tactic, to withdraw and set up a defense further inland. Fly recon as far away as you can.
Quote from: PDH on March 11, 2011, 08:27:48 PM
You don't get a replay,
There's only so much basic functionality you can squeeze into a budget title like this one.
Quote from: The Brain on March 12, 2011, 02:22:36 AM
Quote from: PDH on March 11, 2011, 08:27:48 PM
You don't get a replay,
There's only so much basic functionality you can squeeze into a budget title like this one.
I lol'ed.
Berkut, one hint about creating pockets: you don't need it an unbroken line of units to create one. Zone of Control counts towards it.
You cut off me panzers and motorized divisions!
Although I think I have a pretty substantial pocket down in the south now. Not sure if that is really a good thing though - should I be focused on killing Russians or driving east and north? Who knows?
Your goals should be destroying formations by surrounding them and forcing surrender. It takes longer for these formations to be rebuilt, the manpower is gone, and you won't be facing the units route that get unrouted and rebuilt in a few weeks.
The Matrix forums has some good stuff on openings for the Germans - they are the harder side to play.
I'm by far no expert on the game, but the three turn Minsk scenario is a good primer on how to play the first turns as Germans, because you have to be ridiculously aggressive to reach all objectives. Germans can get as far as Minsk on turn one and pocket all units west of it. As said, you don't need a continuous line of units to create a pocket, which greatly aids - just make sure your advance doesn't get cut off. Also, pockets take a day to come into full effect. And if you know that units will be pocketed next turn, it makes sense to not attack them this turn, because you will wipe them up next turn, anyways. Attacking now would be a waste of resources.
I like your sweep into the Baltics, though. :)
As Soviet there's not much more to do in the first turns than trying to save as many units as possible while trying to build up a defense and choke points. Some people seem to favor a "checkerboard defense" of overlapping ZOCs, but though there's some arguments for them it feels a bit gamey.
Btw, I hooked up my old 1920x1200 screen to the laptop for this game ... much more playable than in 1366x768 (I had to hide the taskbar in that to see all). :lol:
Quote from: Syt on March 12, 2011, 11:29:23 PM
I'm by far no expert on the game, but the three turn Minsk scenario is a good primer on how to play the first turns as Germans, because you have to be ridiculously aggressive to reach all objectives. Germans can get as far as Minsk on turn one and pocket all units west of it. As said, you don't need a continuous line of units to create a pocket, which greatly aids - just make sure your advance doesn't get cut off. Also, pockets take a day to come into full effect. And if you know that units will be pocketed next turn, it makes sense to not attack them this turn, because you will wipe them up next turn, anyways. Attacking now would be a waste of resources.
I like your sweep into the Baltics, though. :)
As Soviet there's not much more to do in the first turns than trying to save as many units as possible while trying to build up a defense and choke points. Some people seem to favor a "checkerboard defense" of overlapping ZOCs, but though there's some arguments for them it feels a bit gamey.
My not spacing units out isn't because I don't know that I ought to, it is usually because I am struggling to get units in space due to trying to go as far as possible. And hence everyone ends up going the (roughly) same way, and hence they end up all bunched up. Which is rather accurate, historically.
To be honest, I am not trying THAT hard to optimize. Just trying to figure the game out. I actually really like the first couple times through a new game, when you don't really know what you are doing and kind of feeling your way forward. Makes for a fun experience, and one that can never be replicated again.
Quote from: Berkut on March 13, 2011, 12:03:39 AM
To be honest, I am not trying THAT hard to optimize. Just trying to figure the game out. I actually really like the first couple times through a new game, when you don't really know what you are doing and kind of feeling your way forward. Makes for a fun experience, and one that can never be replicated again.
Oh, I agree. My playing the Soviets is similar - so far I played them once, up to turn 5, in an aborted PBEM game. It should make for a somewhat historical result how I handle them. ;) And yes, learning a new game is always fun - trying new things and not yet being set on the "optimal" way to play things.
So where is my turn???
I'll have a shwoer now, then breakfast ... probably this afternoon.
Well, AGS ended up making a pretty nice encirclement, with some timely help from the Romanians.
Another potential encirclement forming near Pskov, although I have not managed to get enough troops around the southern end.
Kind of annoying that you cannot access the game once you upload your turn though - would like to post some screenshots.
Soviet High Command appears to have gone on vacation.
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2011, 12:22:43 AM
Soviet High Command appears to have gone on vacation.
Stalin spent a lot of last evening on a conference call with the American allies and expects to have to do the same today. :(
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2011, 01:57:31 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2011, 12:22:43 AM
Soviet High Command appears to have gone on vacation.
Stalin spent a lot of last evening on a conference call with the American allies and expects to have to do the same today. :(
Damn Americans. Always interfering and mucking things up.
Syt, you are really letting me down here. :(
Quote from: Berkut on March 17, 2011, 02:55:03 PM
Syt, you are really letting me down here. :(
Sorry... not much computer time recently. :( Turn coming tonight!
Quote from: Syt on March 18, 2011, 02:44:49 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 17, 2011, 02:55:03 PM
Syt, you are really letting me down here. :(
Sorry... not much computer time recently. :( Turn coming tonight!
:yeahright:
You should have played a frenchman like I am. They are far more reliable than the damned boche.
Quote from: Berkut on March 20, 2011, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 18, 2011, 02:44:49 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 17, 2011, 02:55:03 PM
Syt, you are really letting me down here. :(
Sorry... not much computer time recently. :( Turn coming tonight!
:yeahright:
He got absorbed into Tamas' High Frontier game.
Sorry, haven't had a good time recently. I suggest we postpone?
After all, it's only fair after you fluked out of the two PBEM games (CMBB & TOAW) we tried before.
Quote from: Syt on March 21, 2011, 01:27:44 AM
Sorry, haven't had a good time recently. I suggest we postpone?
After all, it's only fair after you fluked out of the two PBEM games (CMBB & TOAW) we tried before.
CMBB? That seems unlikely, I can never get anyone to play that game!
The Soviets in WitE are difficult. I have a game going against another supposed newb player, and on turn 4 his Germans are threatening Moscow. I think I must be doing something wrong as the Soviets.
Quote from: Berkut on March 21, 2011, 07:50:07 AM
The Soviets in WitE are difficult. I have a game going against another supposed newb player, and on turn 4 his Germans are threatening Moscow. I think I must be doing something wrong as the Soviets.
Ah, the old "I have never played this game before" ploy. Probably that nazi fanboi over at Matrix...
Quote from: PDH on March 21, 2011, 09:13:14 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 21, 2011, 07:50:07 AM
The Soviets in WitE are difficult. I have a game going against another supposed newb player, and on turn 4 his Germans are threatening Moscow. I think I must be doing something wrong as the Soviets.
Ah, the old "I have never played this game before" ploy. Probably that nazi fanboi over at Matrix...
For someone who supposedly is a newb, he is an expert at setting up perfect encirclements every single turn. I need to get better at defending against them though.
I am kind of wondering how he is getting so far - in my games as the Germans, I cannot get my mech forces to move so far every turn, they have long since outrun their supply lines.
The first two turns you get massive supplies as the Germans. An experienced player (and this is what gives it away, I think) then uses turn 3 to do an "HQ Buildup" to have full move again on turn 4 (and another hefty move on turn 5. He has enough transport to fuel a couple of tank corps each turn, but not all of them.
The "perfect encirclements" is also a give away - even the better players get them broken all the time...so either he is very lucky or he is not that new.
I am unsure how people break encirclements. 95% of my troops are 1 CV, maybe 2 at best. I had one mech corp that had a couple 6 CV tank divisions and a 4 CV motorized that I had been hording.
I carefully saved them and pounced on a German motorized division that was the "point" of an encirclement.
Total of 12 CV against his 6 or 8 or something. Not only did I lose, I lost 350 AFVs. He lost 4.
Counter-attacks is a bit dicey as the Soviets. Multiple units, and the goal is to get to 1-1 odds (which kicks up to victory). You will always lose more men, but it can work.
Deliberate attacks work best, that is why the armor and mech for the soviets is shitty in 1941, they don't have enough movement. Masses of infantry are what you need in deliberate attacks.
The easiest encirclements to break are the one that aren't "rings of iron" if you don't have infantry to counter-attack. Slipping units into ZOCs and as soon as it is broken the units inside are not isolated.
Quote from: PDH on March 21, 2011, 09:34:22 AM
Counter-attacks is a bit dicey as the Soviets. Multiple units, and the goal is to get to 1-1 odds (which kicks up to victory). You will always lose more men, but it can work.
Deliberate attacks work best, that is why the armor and mech for the soviets is shitty in 1941, they don't have enough movement. Masses of infantry are what you need in deliberate attacks.
The easiest encirclements to break are the one that aren't "rings of iron" if you don't have infantry to counter-attack. Slipping units into ZOCs and as soon as it is broken the units inside are not isolated.
Right. My problem with this is that what happens is something like this.
And army gets isolated by being encircled after attacks on its flanks. It is a loose encirclemtn though, with ZOCs blocking supply, rather than actual units.
I can probably "relieve" it by moving units up, but what tends to happen is that the germans just encircle those units as well, and I end up throwing even more units into the encirclement, because they move so much further than my guys can.
It feels like I should have more units. I am no where close to being able to amass enough shitty 1 CV infantry units to attack anything, without leaving huge holes in my lines.
Just break the encirclements every turn, who cares if you throw more crap units into the cauldron. Eventually with ZOCs behind them the Germans will be strung out, low on supply, and not in too good a position. The key is to get those units unisolated each turn so they route instead of surrendering. Use a carpet of ZOCs behind your front lines too. This slows the Germans down if they are inexperienced.
OK, figuring more stuff out. Finally got a handle on the Coviet command structure and how the CP thing works. The manual is annoyingly clear on some things, then completely opaque on specifics.
Anyway, another useful thing to do is use the 'z' key to switch between how the unit factors are displayed. Turning on my own units defense strength helps a lot - they are not nearly as useless as I thought. Kind of silly that they cannot manage to get three numbers on the counters though.
This game sounds fun, challenging. Is that so, even playing against the AI?
Yeah, although playing against the AI is supposed to be quite good, but I cannot get into it.
Syt, are we just giving up on this, at least for now?
No time, or just don't like playing the Soviets?
PDH, you are up for some PBEM?
I am in two PBEMs now, sorry. Email me a first turn (I want to be the Axis, as I love black counters) though, and I can get a couple of turns in a week I am sure.
Quote from: Berkut on March 27, 2011, 09:17:50 PM
Syt, are we just giving up on this, at least for now?
No time, or just don't like playing the Soviets?
PDH, you are up for some PBEM?
Sorry, crazy times over here, not much time. :(
There's Wiking on the Pardox OT forums, though, who's playing, I think.
Quote from: Syt on March 28, 2011, 09:54:43 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 27, 2011, 09:17:50 PM
Syt, are we just giving up on this, at least for now?
No time, or just don't like playing the Soviets?
PDH, you are up for some PBEM?
Sorry, crazy times over here, not much time. :(
Does that mean you want to 86 this game, or just not going to get to it all that often?
Quote
There's Wiking on the Pardox OT forums, though, who's playing, I think.
Why would I want to play with someone from over there???
If you don't mind receiving only two, three moves on weeeknds, we can carry on. :)
Some moves is better than no moves...
I thought Syt was just trying to recreate the length of the actual war.
Hehe, Berk is using logic against the German Fanbois who are screaming that the production pools have unused Tiger Tanks.
They are certain he hates history.
Some of the breathless posters over there make Martinus' histrionics seem rational and even-keeled.
I might have been a little harsh.
I tried to argue that the 1st winter was in reality quite harsh with abul and kirk...and they freaked out. Being told off by a fanboi isn't too bad, even when they tell you that it is obvious that you have never studied history. :)
I don't understand, are they arguing that the 1941-1942 winter in the area being one of the harshest recorded is not historical, especially in summer German uniforms with wrapped newspapers in their boots and gloves? :huh:
Frogboy (Brad Waddell from Stardock recently linked in his Elemental journals to an interesting WitE article re: rail supplies and the importance of them:
http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2011/03/22/war-in-the-east-sid-meiers-heinz-guderians-railroad-tycoon/
Cool article. I love well written AARs. I wish I had the patience to do them myself.
We need to talk the Devs into adding the Maus to the production schedule.
Don't ever have a unit that has it in its TO&E though. Just let them accumulate in the pool. Sitting there. Never being used...
The fanbois would all have a collective stroke.
Just 2 Maus. And give the Confederates ironclads in 1861.
Just don't try and rationalize with Abul or Kirk...they don't use logic. They are all that is good and true about fanbois.
People seem to like my suggestion of killing two birds with one stone, and using up those 200 extra Tigers and 400 extra 10.5cm AA guns by allowing the players to simply place 2 of each gun on a Tiger and form up a serious Panzer division with them...After all, it is totally unrealistic to just leave them sitting in the pool! It would never happen!
I totally agree. Any casual reading of history will show you that there were NEVER 200 Tiger tanks in the national pool.
Belgian SS fanbois. :bleeding:
The WitE forum delivers!
I especially like the newer players who complain that they can't succeed at the game, so it must be broken.
I can't succeed as the Soviets in taking Berlin in 1941 against Berkut's Germans. Game is t3h borken. :mad:
Well, I have 200 Tigers in my pool and I demand the 1st SS WaffenTiger Division NOW!
:bleeding: The SS fanboi is getting worse.
It is an old schtick. Trolling, then asking "what is a troll?" when called on it. In this case it is the "what does it mean to be ignored?'
Oh well, at least they are consistent.
And the relativism taken to extremes is worse than the fanboism to me. Churchill supported Eugenics in 1910, he is obviously as bad as Hitler!
Berk, I have to bow out, I just don't have the time right now. :(
Quote from: PDH on April 03, 2011, 11:29:39 AM
And the relativism taken to extremes is worse than the fanboism to me. Churchill supported Eugenics in 1910, he is obviously as bad as Hitler!
Churchill was a meat-eater. To PETA fanbois he is worse than Hitler.
:zzz
WE HAFTA WAIT FOR 1.04!
Actually, I've been kind of busy being single dad, and by the time I sat down to get some gaming in, I just wasn't up to something as heavy as WITE. So I just did my turn for the other game, because I knew you would be very understanding, the way you are.
Awfully convenient that your lack of time happens when we hit the first turn of blizzard. :hmm:
Quote from: Habbaku on April 13, 2011, 01:26:32 PM
Awfully convenient that your lack of time happens when we hit the first turn of blizzard. :hmm:
Is it blizzard? Hadn't noticed.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 13, 2011, 01:26:32 PM
Awfully convenient that your lack of time happens when we hit the first turn of blizzard. :hmm:
Smart... waiting for the storm to end!
Some q's:
Do you have to move every friggin' unit, or can you order a HQ to do something and it moves the shit for you? I know I want to move every GODDAMN GERMAN DIVISION on the east front about as much as I want to have my teeth drilled.
Airpower: can you let the machine do it, or do you have to tell Rudel where to take a shit after dropping his bombs?
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 12, 2011, 10:29:36 AM
Airpower: can you let the machine do it, or do you have to tell Rudel where to take a shit after dropping his bombs?
"Herr Rudel, ze poo goes in zat hole over dere, und ze bombs goes on ze head on Ivan over dere" :D
no sorry I have no idea
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 12, 2011, 10:29:36 AM
do you have to tell Rudel where to take a shit after dropping his bombs?
With the G forces he is endures right after dropping his bombs, this isn't an issue.
Air support is largely automated by default.
You do have to order ground units individually however.
Gracias.
From the wite forum resident axis apoplectic apologist:
QuoteI'm not going to say I know more than ANYBODY else on the topic in this forum, but I will definitely say I know as much or more than anybody on this forum. I've spent the last 20 years doing research for many reason on the subject. This includes reading over 200 books on WWII and attending many lectures on the subject. I'd welcome anybody that would like to challenged my knowledge.
I love the smell of arrogance in the morning, it smells like...bullshit.
What a loser. :D
Quote from: PDH on May 22, 2011, 03:58:02 PM
From the wite forum resident axis apoplectic apologist:
QuoteI'm not going to say I know more than ANYBODY else on the topic in this forum, but I will definitely say I know as much or more than anybody on this forum. I've spent the last 20 years doing research for many reason on the subject. This includes reading over 200 books on WWII and attending many lectures on the subject. I'd welcome anybody that would like to challenged my knowledge.
I love the smell of arrogance in the morning, it smells like...bullshit.
Ill check this out, looks entertaining. He sounds like a Fanboi zealot. Try to work Glantz into the conversation. It gets them all frothed up.
I'm thinking of offering myself this gem when I can afford it.
So what's the verdict, ja oder nein?
It is excellent.
Quote from: Berkut on August 06, 2011, 12:40:54 AM
It is excellent.
against human, but AI seems like an actual AI when compared to Paradox titles :)
Meh, everyone should know by now that with very few exceptions any wargame rating from me is always considered against human opponents.
Quote from: szmik on August 06, 2011, 08:50:42 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 06, 2011, 12:40:54 AM
It is excellent.
against human, but AI seems like an actual AI when compared to Paradox titles :)
Does that mean the AI is good, or at least capable?
Quote from: sbr on August 06, 2011, 11:02:50 AM
Quote from: szmik on August 06, 2011, 08:50:42 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 06, 2011, 12:40:54 AM
It is excellent.
against human, but AI seems like an actual AI when compared to Paradox titles :)
Does that mean the AI is good, or at least capable?
It is capable, especially on harder difficulties. You quickly learn its patterns and exploit its quirks, but it is still a lot of fun. You won't regret.
Quote from: PDH on May 22, 2011, 03:58:02 PM
From the wite forum resident axis apoplectic apologist:
QuoteI'm not going to say I know more than ANYBODY else on the topic in this forum, but I will definitely say I know as much or more than anybody on this forum. I've spent the last 20 years doing research for many reason on the subject. This includes reading over 200 books on WWII and attending many lectures on the subject. I'd welcome anybody that would like to challenged my knowledge.
I love the smell of arrogance in the morning, it smells like...bullshit.
I wonder what the "many reason" was.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 06, 2011, 03:44:35 PM
I wonder what the "many reason" was.
When you have been jacking off to Nazi fetishes and WWII Wehrmacht memorabilia for 20 years, you're bound to know alot about the subject.
I surrender.
Bought that motherfucker, both digital and physical. Downloading.
Should I get assraped by PBEM to learn, or should I get schooled first by the AI?
Play the AI several times.
Play the fool straight away.
Play a couple turns against the AI just to get the mechanics down.
Began to read the manual, from what I see the counter system isn't that different from TOAW3 and WITP.
It's gonna take a while, though. I suspect the physical copy won't have a physical manual. :cry:
Also, what are the usual house rules so that the Soviet player doesn't become a juggernaut as soon as the blizzard goes away in 1942? Reading the Matrix forum, I read several players "complaining" that the Soviet player becomes virtually unplacatable in 1942, mainly because the USSR gains reinforcements too fast during the Winter of 1941 and most players would be more... conservative with their manpower pool than Stalin was.
As I don't know if the complainers are Nazi-SS fan-jugends or not, I inquire.
The complainers are poor players. But from what I can tell playing Axis is very hard and mistakes will cost you, even against average Soviet player. As Soviet you can lose both Leningrad and Moscow and still win without much problem, the only question is how long it would take.
Look into AARs, there're some juggernaught Axis players.
The basic complaint now about 1942 is not just that the Soviets are too strong in 1942 (they should be far stronger, especially if they don't waste too much in the winter - no player does a Kharkov 1942), but rather that the entrenching rules favor very deep carpets of units that become almost impossible to break.
I have played and won a GC against a human, I have also been stalemated in 1942. One game I am playing now I fully expect 1943 to be a "pull back" year as the Germans, after a trench warfare 1942.
So are these "complaints" dealt with house rules, or players usually rely on the competency of their opponents?
By comparison I'm beginning a WITP game with TGL in the end of the week, and there's at least 8 house rules at start.
Just tone down Soviet entrenchment rate in game options at start. :) The only reasonable house rule imho is that of no/limited sea invasions by Soviets.
Still it's like fighting ants. Start a game against AI and you'll soon get the feel of it. AI is actually good at making deep carpets, especially when covering important cities.
Quote from: Drakken on August 08, 2011, 10:16:51 AM
So are these "complaints" dealt with house rules, or players usually rely on the competency of their opponents?
By comparison I'm beginning a WITP game with TGL in the end of the week, and there's at least 8 house rules at start.
What are they?
1. CAP/Sweep altititude limited to the 2nd highest manuever band of the aircraft being used.
2. No unrealistic first turn invasions by the Japanese (i.e. no Mersing Gambit).
3. The Allies will not create any new Task Forces on Turn 1, but can move existing Task Forces anywhere they please.
4. No strategic bombing until 1944.
5. Pay PPs for units crossing national borders (i.e. I would need to change HQs for my Manchukuo units if I want to use them in China).
6. No Allied aircraft or ground units in Soviet territory and vice versa (China is fine though!).
7. No invasions on non-dot or base hexes.
8. No paradrops using fragments (the whole unit must be involved).
9. Limit to one Port strike by the Japanese on December 7th (So I either hit Pearl, or pick another port such as Manila, but not both).
10. No unrealistic resizing of aircraft groups (45 fighters was the largest unit the Japanese operated in the field -"Hikō Sentai" Air Combat Group-), so obviously I wouldn't make any of my units larger than that. The Allied player isn't able to resize his air units as large right away I don't think, but it would be very gamey for either of us to take one squadron, use it to fill the entire carrier, and then keep all of the extra squadrons for training or other purposes. Equally gamey would be to fill the carrier to capacity using only one air group, and then split that air group so only a fragment is on the carrier, but the rest of the air group is used for training or combat purposes elsewhere. You may have seen in my AAR against CC that I resize float planes with CS-class cruisers, but that only brings them up to about 28 planes, and many of them must be bought with PPs to unrestrict them.
They all make sense to me, and of course it's Admiral Edition, latest beta patch.
Quote from: PDH on August 08, 2011, 09:05:53 AM
The basic complaint now about 1942 is not just that the Soviets are too strong in 1942 (they should be far stronger, especially if they don't waste too much in the winter - no player does a Kharkov 1942), but rather that the entrenching rules favor very deep carpets of units that become almost impossible to break.
I saw your AAR against Capt. Flam and some pictures of so-called very deep carpet of units. I looked at the salients there and immediately saw weaknesses I could exploit for a breakthrough. And I focused only on spotting hexes with low fortifications and low Defensive CVs.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg534.imageshack.us%2Fimg534%2F8774%2Fcarpety.jpg&hash=b4832c03b13e335efd0d59d01704d7dc08fb57aa)
So I am wondering if most of the people complaining about this so-called "deep carpets of units" are just too inexperienced to see potential holes to punch in, or too lazy or risk-averse to exploit these. :shutup:
Problem is why he would want to punch a hole there :rolleyes: To kill some more Russians and what else? There're no manpower centers or industry worth the effort.
Moreover Axis just don't have enough counters to spread frontline too much.
Quote from: szmik on August 09, 2011, 10:06:43 AM
Problem is why he would want to punch a hole there :rolleyes: To kill some more Russians and what else? There're no manpower centers or industry worth the effort.
So the problem is that the USSR is defending Moscow strongly in 42? But isn't that what they actually did?
QuoteMoreover Axis just don't have enough counters to spread frontline too much.
Also a problem I recall casually from the histories.
Not so much Moscow being defended by huge rings of fortifications, but the entire front being fortified 100 miles deep.
I'm fairly certain 2by3 and testers is having a look at this to limit this in the future. My contention is that even with the current issue, weaknesses can be found in the front and plans can be made, but just like in real 1942, it's a huge gamble and the Axis player has to be creative.
What I see on the forums, however, is the some complaining that the Germans in 1942 should still be able to throw the Russians around like a dummy, without realizing that going for Crimea was possible because Stalin spent so many resources walling up around Moscow at the detriment of others sectors, like the Caucasus.
But I speak in total inexperience. Maybe when I play the Axis and face full walled-up Commie line that makes it look like it's 1914 post-Schlieffen all over again, I'll speak differently.
In the meantime, house rules can be proposed and agreed upon to curtail the issue. Since you, Berk, and szmik are much, much more knowledgeable about the current balance of the game than I am, maybe you can already interject some ideas.
For instance, what was the depth of Soviet fortification efforts historically that could be made within weeks or months to make a makeshift defence line. If I pull a number out of my ass and say about 20-30 miles deep (feel free to correct me on that for the real numbers), that means it would be reasonable to limit the depth to two hexes deep max, if everything else is peachy. After all, it took almost two years of building the Molotov Line for it to be almost a 80 miles deep, and it was still unfinished when Barbarossa started.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 09, 2011, 12:14:39 PM
Quote from: szmik on August 09, 2011, 10:06:43 AM
Problem is why he would want to punch a hole there :rolleyes: To kill some more Russians and what else? There're no manpower centers or industry worth the effort.
So the problem is that the USSR is defending Moscow strongly in 42? But isn't that what they actually did?
QuoteMoreover Axis just don't have enough counters to spread frontline too much.
Also a problem I recall casually from the histories.
You're correct, but what's your point?
I just don't see the reason to go the route indicated by Drakken. :) That's just playing in the hands of Soviet player, when your offensive is driven by the weakness in his line. Valid strategy against AI, but not against human.
In several AARs I read, I see "checkerboard defence" mentioned often, but I haven't found any definition for it.
What does that mean? How it is more effective than going for a linear front? Is it why I often see Russian lone counters scattered two to three hexes apart and deep over an area in early campaigns?
This game is giving me a severe murder boner. I imagine each pocketed soviet unit full of Ide's, each clutching a bag of Reese Cups.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 23, 2011, 06:44:20 PM
This game is giving me a severe murder boner. I imagine each pocketed soviet unit full of Ide's, each clutching a bag of Reese Cups.
But is your cock Panzergruppe 4?
Quote from: FunkMonk on November 23, 2011, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 23, 2011, 06:44:20 PM
This game is giving me a severe murder boner. I imagine each pocketed soviet unit full of Ide's, each clutching a bag of Reese Cups.
But is your cock Panzergruppe 4?
Heeresgruppe Mitte.
Heeresgruppe Mittens.
I bought it :blush:
Appears to be surprisingly easy to manage compared to the scale.
Turn 2 and I've hit the point where I start thinking I'm running the panzers into the ground. I don't want to restart this fucker. :lol:
Quote from: FunkMonk on November 23, 2011, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 23, 2011, 06:44:20 PM
This game is giving me a severe murder boner. I imagine each pocketed soviet unit full of Ide's, each clutching a bag of Reese Cups.
But is your cock Panzergruppe 4?
4. Panzerarmee. Changes to the OOB are important.
How....small.
QuoteHow....small.
I'm thinking the Steppe Front might be more appropriate anyway. I'm a grower, not a shower. :hmm:
Budenny's 1st Red Cavalry Army.
I just need 1 more panzer corps and a couple of Infantry ones. :weep:
The AI doesn't seem bad so far. It worked itself out of a pocket that was forming at Smolensk.
Quote from: Drakken on August 10, 2011, 02:51:07 PM
In several AARs I read, I see "checkerboard defence" mentioned often, but I haven't found any definition for it.
What does that mean? How it is more effective than going for a linear front?
Defense in depth, maybe. Hedgehog type defense?? Doesnt sound new. People been using it in board wargames for a long time. Good in TOAW3 too.
QuoteIs it why I often see Russian lone counters scattered two to three hexes apart and deep over an area in early campaigns?
Maybe to slow down explotation.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 27, 2011, 07:49:04 PM
I just need 1 more panzer corps and a couple of Infantry ones. :weep:
The AI doesn't seem bad so far. It worked itself out of a pocket that was forming at Smolensk.
Yeah, altough it must certainly be helped by me jumping into the GC after like half an hour of dicking around in smaller scenarios :P I am learning the ropes while storming through Russia. It has been given a suspiciously easy time for the Finns so far though.
It is something like end of July and I am at the gates of Kiev, but gotta' go a way until Smolensk (still have that other big city to capture west of it). After the initial run back, the AI has formed a defensive line all along the front, probably I wasn't fast enough in forming pockets, though I have several hundred thousand PoWs.
I am in a surprisingly good shape supply-wise, considering that I read the supply rules after several turns of the GC, but what I intended to be my Moscow spearhead is very low on gas at the moment.
So the point is, that I bought this because I knew I would succumb eventually, and I can't really expect Matrix to decrease prices more in the next 15 years. But it has been surprisingly fun and engrossing so far.
Now all I have left is to somehow make the AI drive all the Romanians into the Black Sea.
Quote from: Tamas on November 28, 2011, 02:19:35 PM
Now all I have left is to somehow make the AI drive all the Romanians into the Black Sea.
Place them at front in blizzard weather and retreat with Germans. :menace: AI Reds will eat them alive.
I have gotten to the end of August, and still haven't taken Moscow or Leningrad. The Romanian tank division is about as useful as Kim Kardashian and the rest of the Romanians are like Khloe, just taking up space. Only decent axis ally units so far are the Finns, and they can't cross a line and the Miroslav Satan Slovak mobile brigade. The Hungarian mobile brigades are somewhat useful, if they run across beet supplies to fuel their motorized gypsy wagons.
But I've caused 2.5 million Russian casualties, which gives me a raging murder boner and my pants are a dairy factory when the black SS units pulverized Russian units.
Btw, I've seen boxed copies at an electronics store today for €49.99.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 02:52:49 PM
The Hungarian mobile brigades are somewhat useful, if they run across beet supplies to fuel their motorized gypsy wagons.
:lmfao:
Man, I can't wait till I can buy this thing.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 02:52:49 PM
I have gotten to the end of August, and still haven't taken Moscow or Leningrad. The Romanian tank division is about as useful as Kim Kardashian and the rest of the Romanians are like Khloe, just taking up space. Only decent axis ally units so far are the Finns, and they can't cross a line and the Miroslav Satan Slovak mobile brigade. The Hungarian mobile brigades are somewhat useful, if they run across beet supplies to fuel their motorized gypsy wagons.
But I've caused 2.5 million Russian casualties, which gives me a raging murder boner and my pants are a dairy factory when the black SS units pulverized Russian units.
:rolleyes:
our mobile unit used bicycles
Ed you write the best AARs :wub:
:)
The Italians have arrived, however partisans are luring Italian troops away from their positions with boxes of pasta and the occasional whore. Also, the honey trap of middle aged women acting like their mothers are causing Italian troops to lounge around in the house they are quartered in and not go out and fight.
Quote from: Tamas on December 02, 2011, 06:22:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 02:52:49 PM
I have gotten to the end of August, and still haven't taken Moscow or Leningrad. The Romanian tank division is about as useful as Kim Kardashian and the rest of the Romanians are like Khloe, just taking up space. Only decent axis ally units so far are the Finns, and they can't cross a line and the Miroslav Satan Slovak mobile brigade. The Hungarian mobile brigades are somewhat useful, if they run across beet supplies to fuel their motorized gypsy wagons.
But I've caused 2.5 million Russian casualties, which gives me a raging murder boner and my pants are a dairy factory when the black SS units pulverized Russian units.
:rolleyes:
our mobile unit used bicycles
Stolen bicycles.
The Romanians never get better - ever. Even if you leave them in a city, on full refit, training for a year, they pretend they are better (maybe cv of 6), but when they meet the russians, they all flee.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 08:52:36 PM
Quote from: Tamas on December 02, 2011, 06:22:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 02:52:49 PM
I have gotten to the end of August, and still haven't taken Moscow or Leningrad. The Romanian tank division is about as useful as Kim Kardashian and the rest of the Romanians are like Khloe, just taking up space. Only decent axis ally units so far are the Finns, and they can't cross a line and the Miroslav Satan Slovak mobile brigade. The Hungarian mobile brigades are somewhat useful, if they run across beet supplies to fuel their motorized gypsy wagons.
But I've caused 2.5 million Russian casualties, which gives me a raging murder boner and my pants are a dairy factory when the black SS units pulverized Russian units.
:rolleyes:
our mobile unit used bicycles
Stolen bicycles.
:moon:
Does this game attempt to model Hitler's retard directives?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2011, 05:45:17 PM
Does this game attempt to model Hitler's retard directives?
not at all :) all he does in game is dismissing generals you actually need :P
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2011, 05:45:17 PM
Does this game attempt to model Hitler's retard directives?
AFAIK the game doesn't include eugenics.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2011, 05:45:17 PM
Does this game attempt to model Hitler's retard directives?
I've gave up territory to shorten lines and an angry picture of Hitler didn't appear on the screen. I'm still in the semi-sane period of Hitler, 1941.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2011, 05:45:17 PM
Does this game attempt to model Hitler's retard directives?
You're invading Russia aren't you? What other retard directives do you want?
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2011, 08:10:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2011, 05:45:17 PM
Does this game attempt to model Hitler's retard directives?
You're invading Russia aren't you? What other retard directives do you want?
That pretty much somes it up there. :lmfao:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2011, 05:45:17 PM
Does this game attempt to model Hitler's retard directives?
Nope, and not Stalin's retard counteroffensives either.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 08:52:23 PM
:)
The Italians have arrived, however partisans are luring Italian troops away from their positions with boxes of pasta and the occasional whore. Also, the honey trap of middle aged women acting like their mothers are causing Italian troops to lounge around in the house they are quartered in and not go out and fight.
:yeah:
Reading this thread makes me want this game, but I never played something like this: is it difficult/complicated to play? should I start from some less complex war game? some suggestions, please?
L.
Quote from: Pedrito on December 05, 2011, 03:42:54 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 08:52:23 PM
:)
The Italians have arrived, however partisans are luring Italian troops away from their positions with boxes of pasta and the occasional whore. Also, the honey trap of middle aged women acting like their mothers are causing Italian troops to lounge around in the house they are quartered in and not go out and fight.
:yeah:
Reading this thread makes me want this game, but I never played something like this: is it difficult/complicated to play? should I start from some less complex war game? some suggestions, please?
L.
That isn't in the game. I love stereotypes though. :) And good sound systems.
The game isn't hard, but its LARGE. I can usually only do 1 Army Group or so before I have to save and do the next 2 tomorrow. And other than the automated recon and airbase attacks you can set up, air is a chore.
One good thing was I've looked in the manual maybe twice. Haven't tried to read the damn thing.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2011, 08:52:45 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on December 05, 2011, 03:42:54 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 08:52:23 PM
:)
The Italians have arrived, however partisans are luring Italian troops away from their positions with boxes of pasta and the occasional whore. Also, the honey trap of middle aged women acting like their mothers are causing Italian troops to lounge around in the house they are quartered in and not go out and fight.
:yeah:
Reading this thread makes me want this game, but I never played something like this: is it difficult/complicated to play? should I start from some less complex war game? some suggestions, please?
L.
One good thing was I've looked in the manual maybe twice. Haven't tried to read the damn thing.
I would chaulk that up in the pro column.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2011, 12:03:20 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2011, 08:52:45 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on December 05, 2011, 03:42:54 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 08:52:23 PM
:)
The Italians have arrived, however partisans are luring Italian troops away from their positions with boxes of pasta and the occasional whore. Also, the honey trap of middle aged women acting like their mothers are causing Italian troops to lounge around in the house they are quartered in and not go out and fight.
:yeah:
Reading this thread makes me want this game, but I never played something like this: is it difficult/complicated to play? should I start from some less complex war game? some suggestions, please?
L.
One good thing was I've looked in the manual maybe twice. Haven't tried to read the damn thing.
I would chaulk that up in the pro column.
Ignorance is a blessing. :D
I noticed I got the "mighty" Hungarian tank division. It starts with 5 Russian T26 tanks stolen from those poor Slavs.
When it arrives at the front, I'm sure the division will be good for scaring children, knifing policemen and chasing chickens.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2011, 12:17:03 PM
I noticed I got the "mighty" Hungarian tank division. It starts with 5 Russian T26 tanks stolen from those poor Slavs.
When it arrives at the front, I'm sure the division will be good for scaring children, knifing policemen and chasing chickens.
enough of the gypo jokes, they were busy digging trenches and clearing minefield during this time :P
We, on the other hand, served as partisan hunters and cannon fodder.
Quote from: Tamas on December 05, 2011, 12:22:26 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2011, 12:17:03 PM
I noticed I got the "mighty" Hungarian tank division. It starts with 5 Russian T26 tanks stolen from those poor Slavs.
When it arrives at the front, I'm sure the division will be good for scaring children, knifing policemen and chasing chickens.
enough of the gypo jokes, they were busy digging trenches and clearing minefield during this time :P
We, on the other hand, served as partisan hunters and cannon fodder.
:)
I am using two Hungarian security brigades to hold Kiev and the surrounding airgroup cluster I moved in there. Along with a Romanian Cavalry brigade (The Ramblin Wreck brigade)
Also, in an amusing sort of way, I had a Hungarian cav brigade in Odessa shootin' folk policing, and I couldn't move Romanian units into the city. NO SCUM ALLOWED.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2011, 12:37:56 PM
Also, in an amusing sort of way, I had a Hungarian cav brigade in Odessa shootin' folk policing, and I couldn't move Romanian units into the city. NO SCUM ALLOWED.
:lol: :thumbsup:
As the mud arrives, it now looks like somebody threw shit on my screen. Thanks developers!
Using my mystical in game nazi powers of FORESIGHT AND HINDSIGHT, I spend the last clear turn using my panzer corps as daggers, stabbing at Soviet armor clumps in the rear then running back behind the infantry line. Special note goes to the Miroslav Satan Slovak Mobile Brigade, who shattered the 5th Guards Cavalry Division.
Demerits go to the Hungarian tank division, which seemingly lost their 5 T26 tanks on the train. Likely sold them for glass beads.
http://i.imgur.com/jbvck.jpg
:lol:
:lol:
Ed's AARs: :thumbsup:
L.
Halder's war diary, October 1941
Things have ground to a halt on the front, as mud chokes the movement ability of the army and chokes supply. One panzer division reports not receiving its fuel allotment and a couple units did not get their supply of carbon paper for filling out their forms. Army Group South reports the Hungarian garrison commander in Kiev was killed when they stormed the people's beet warehouse #23 and discovered it empty. Little do they know the German troops moving through emptied the warehouse and sent the beets to Germany. Our allies are stupid. They were: delicious.
Meanwhile at the Wolf's lair, Eva made the Fuhrer an bunny suit with feeties. It is just so cute. Keitel stole my lunch again from the fridge. Little does he know I had laxatives baked into the brownies.
The game seems to be a bit too detailed.
:D
:thumbsup:
The AI has no balls. Huge swaths of German units are "isolated" but the AI sits and waits. I think it knows something.
Going for attrition?
Quote from: AnchorClanker on December 06, 2011, 06:32:04 PM
Going for attrition?
I'm waiting for '42. It, I assume is waiting for winter.
If I had played all crazy, I could've had Moscow. The ghost of Napoleon was watching over my shoulder, making
tsk tsk sounds. Damn perv ghost.
Edit: And with the first snow turn, everybody got their vittles n' shit. After looking over Russian units I can see, I'm gonna go with Typhoon. Fuck it. Go for broke.
Halder's War Diary, November 1941
The mood has lightened a bit here at the Wolf's Lair! Reports are coming in of a hole being blown in the Russian lines on the road to Moscow and two Panzer Corps pushing through. Hitler had one of his spells when the generals argued for keeping some panzers in reserve, while the Fuhrer raged about throwing them all in. It didn't help that Goering kept asking for his copy of 'Railroader magazine' back from Himmler and interrupting AH repeatedly. Stupid fat fuck.
Meanwhile in the South, the Russian lines had begun to disintegrate under a combined German/Romanian assault to clear the Russians from west of the Dnieper in the south Ukraine. Shockingly, AGS says that the Roms are fighting fiercely. Even the Wops and Gypsies are fighting hard. SHOCKA. AGS reports several very understregth Sov tank brigades may be engaged soon.
Keitel has stopped stealing my lunches. I hope he enjoyed those couple of days in the can. Stupid fuck. Eva is letting herself go. ABOMINATION.
I think I made way too many mistakes and and going to start a Russian game now. Ed Hitler is retired.
Production system or set reinforcement schedule?
For the Rooskies? No idea. I've only gotten through the turn one knee to the groin.
For either or both.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2011, 04:35:01 PM
For either or both.
Germans have a reinforcement/withdrawal schedule. The game doesn't make it easy to ID units peeling off back to Germany. MAKE IF FLASH DEVELOPERS. One turn a division is there, the next, a GIANT GAPING HOLE in the line.
Russians, no idea. I took a lookee and it is so fucking depressing I just exited it. EVERYBODY IS GOING TO DIE.
Maybe a '42 or '43 start is in order. Me need big murder boner corps.
What, really? I mean, I can see requiring you to choose divisions to lose--iirc, this is basically how WitP did it with British recommitments to the Atlantic, you had to move ships back to Karachi or face... some sort of penalty, it never really mattered because I always won the war in thirty or forty days). But just zapping them away--in 1941? to where? :unsure: were German units shorn off the Eastern Front to go to Serbia or something?--and without warning? Bogus.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 09, 2011, 09:04:26 PM
What, really? I mean, I can see requiring you to choose divisions to lose--iirc, this is basically how WitP did it with British recommitments to the Atlantic, you had to move ships back to Karachi or face... some sort of penalty, it never really mattered because I always won the war in thirty or forty days). But just zapping them away--in 1941? to where? :unsure: were German units shorn off the Eastern Front to go to Serbia or something?--and without warning? Bogus.
Rest and refit. Also the times when the SS stuff withrawals is when they were were upgunned. The 8th ss cav brigade leaves and I assume it becomes th FlorianGeyer cav division.
Actually, that seems like the sort of thing you should be able to manually control. Huh.
I mean, if I want to run LSSAH into the ground till it's one guy with a broken leg in an obsolete tank that can't move, that's my business, not theirs. I am: fuhrer.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 09, 2011, 09:50:21 PM
Actually, that seems like the sort of thing you should be able to manually control. Huh.
I mean, if I want to run LSSAH into the ground till it's one guy with a broken leg in an obsolete tank that can't move, that's my business, not theirs. I am: fuhrer.
dr. Strangelove just popped into my head.
mein fuhrer, I can walk!
Quote from: Ideologue on December 09, 2011, 09:50:21 PM
Actually, that seems like the sort of thing you should be able to manually control. Huh.
I mean, if I want to run LSSAH into the ground till it's one guy with a broken leg in an obsolete tank that can't move, that's my business, not theirs. I am: fuhrer.
Well you are not Fuhrer, you are OKW. Hence why Fuhrer removes your toys from time to time, because they are needed elsewhere. Sadly, the same logic isn't kept on the Russian side since nothing forces the Russian player to waste valuable resources on insane counter-offensives and hopeless defensive lines.
That is also why the OOB is much less flexible on the German side than on the Russian one. If you didn't agree with Hitler, you got reassigned elsewhere. If you didn't agree with Stalin, you got whacked (unless you were Zhukov). STAVKA was much more of a Stalin hands-on control tool than the OKW, who got almost free reign on waging the war of annihilation except those times Hitler intervened punctually. Finally, as the Russian Red Army got nigh-on annihilated several times and have an immense reserve of manpower they could afford to recreate units and staff them
ad hoc, while the Germans are stuck to play with what they've got until they win or get attrited out.
Somehow I think Hitler would be pretty receptive to arguments to effect that keeping x number of divisions in the line would win the war.
SUPER-CANNAE!
The game misrepresents Hitler's genius.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 09, 2011, 09:26:37 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 09, 2011, 09:04:26 PM
What, really? I mean, I can see requiring you to choose divisions to lose--iirc, this is basically how WitP did it with British recommitments to the Atlantic, you had to move ships back to Karachi or face... some sort of penalty, it never really mattered because I always won the war in thirty or forty days). But just zapping them away--in 1941? to where? :unsure: were German units shorn off the Eastern Front to go to Serbia or something?--and without warning? Bogus.
Rest and refit. Also the times when the SS stuff withrawals is when they were were upgunned. The 8th ss cav brigade leaves and I assume it becomes th FlorianGeyer cav division.
Two questions:
What happens after 1945? There aren't exactly a lot of German ORBATs for 1946.
What about brigades that were upgraded to division status but never actually reached division manpower levels? Do they remain as brigades, or can you keep them off the line for a bit until they get enough reinforcements to actually make them a division? Can Dirlwanger actually get his division? An entire division of rapists and pedophiles... Chris Hansen would have his work cut out for him.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 10, 2011, 02:03:11 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 09, 2011, 09:26:37 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 09, 2011, 09:04:26 PM
What, really? I mean, I can see requiring you to choose divisions to lose--iirc, this is basically how WitP did it with British recommitments to the Atlantic, you had to move ships back to Karachi or face... some sort of penalty, it never really mattered because I always won the war in thirty or forty days). But just zapping them away--in 1941? to where? :unsure: were German units shorn off the Eastern Front to go to Serbia or something?--and without warning? Bogus.
Rest and refit. Also the times when the SS stuff withrawals is when they were were upgunned. The 8th ss cav brigade leaves and I assume it becomes th FlorianGeyer cav division.
Two questions:
What happens after 1945? There aren't exactly a lot of German ORBATs for 1946.
What about brigades that were upgraded to division status but never actually reached division manpower levels? Do they remain as brigades, or can you keep them off the line for a bit until they get enough reinforcements to actually make them a division? Can Dirlwanger actually get his division? An entire division of rapists and pedophiles... Chris Hansen would have his work cut out for him.
1) game ends
2) Don't know. I started the 44 scenario as the Russians, I'll see if the 36th SS shows up.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 10, 2011, 02:03:11 AM
What happens after 1945? There aren't exactly a lot of German ORBATs for 1946.
Basically if Berlin isn't in Russian hands by a certain date in 1945, Germany "wins" by doing better than the original.
Yes, there are VPs but no player really gives a damn about them.
Hmmm. 44 scenario and turn 1 a kajillion panzer divisions pop up in AGC. MY BULLSHIT DETECTOR WENT OFF.
I would not mind trying a PBEM game again...
The problem with PBEM is that most German players will never continue passed 1942 when they haven't taken Moscow and the jig is up for them.
How much computer does this game require?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2011, 03:33:51 PM
How much computer does this game require?
Product Requirements :
Minimum Specs:
OS: Windows XP/Vista/7
CPU: 1.5GHz+
RAM: 1GB
Video Card: 128MB DirectX 9+ Compatible
Sound Card: 16 bit DirectX 9+ Compatible
Hard Drive Space: 1.5 GB Free
DirectX 9.0c or higher
Recommended Specs:
OS: Windows XP/Vista/7
CPU: 2.0GHz+ (or multi-core equivalent)
RAM: 2GB
Video Card: 256MB DirectX 9+ Compatible
Sound Card: 16 bit DirectX 9+ Compatible
Hard Drive Space: 1.5 GB Free
DirectX 9.0c or higher
My 6 core eats this fucker for breakfast and shits out numbers.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 09, 2011, 04:19:04 PM
I think I made way too many mistakes and and going to start a Russian game now. Ed Hitler is retired.
Was it the going for broke that did it, or something else? 198 Soviet divisions destroyed seems pretty good to me.