I'd be surprised if they changed this after all these years, even given the current scandals.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-27/vatican-s-no-2-says-celibacy-not-untouchable-tv3-reports.html
QuoteVatican's No. 2 Says Celibacy Not 'Untouchable,' TV3 Reports
April 27, 2010, 11:22 AM EDT
By Jeffrey Donovan
April 27 (Bloomberg) -- The Roman Catholic Church is open to discussing whether priests must remain celibate, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican's second-in-command, told Spain's channel TV3 in an interview.
Celibacy is not "untouchable" and some Catholic priests in the church's Greek-rite tradition lead married lives, the Vatican secretary of state told the Catalan-language station in an interview posted on its Web site today. Still, the centuries- old celibacy rule remains "a positive and fruitful tradition."
The Vatican is struggling to respond to a wave of child sex-abuse allegations against priests in several countries, including Pope Benedict XVI's native Germany. Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schonborn wrote in March that there may be a link between celibacy and pedophilia by priests. Bertone said there's no direct connection between celibacy and "the deviant behavior of certain priests," according to an April 25 interview he gave to Spanish newspaper La Vanguardia.
The Vatican on March 12 denied it's secretly planning to scrap the rule of priestly celibacy within 50 years. The denial came after Italian newspaper la Repubblica reported the Church is studying ways to loosen the requirement that priests abstain from sexual activity in an effort to rebuild its image in the wake of the sex-abuse scandals.
--Editors: Andrew Davis, Kevin Costelloe
To contact the reporter on this story: Jeffrey Donovan at [email protected]
QuoteCelibacy is not "untouchable"
Just like little children!
Don't be. Even today there is a non insignificant - and growing - number of married Catholic priests, because the Catholic Church does accept Anglican and Orthodox Greek priests in the 'true faith' ranks with their wives and sons. Also, supposedly some Catholic priests in Eastern Europe did marry during the Cold War; Rome granted them exemptions from celibacy due to the secret or semi-secret nature of their missions.
It would be quite revolutionary, true, but it's not only the recent scandals. Empty seminaries have been deeply troubling Rome for a long time too. Actually I would be tempted to say that their very serious difficulties getting new recruits are one of the reasons the Church accepted so many rotten apples...
Doesn't surprise me.
Quote from: The Brain on April 28, 2010, 02:05:48 AM
QuoteCelibacy is not "untouchable"
Just like little children!
:lmfao:
Celibacy niether addresses or solves kiddiefucking.
It would stop nocturnal emissions though.
Quote from: garbon on April 28, 2010, 03:16:40 AM
It would stop nocturnal emissions though.
I was a celibate teenager as a virgin; didn't stop mine.
What kind of person would want to live a life of perpetual celibacy?
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on April 28, 2010, 04:01:59 AM
What kind of person would want to live a life of perpetual celibacy?
Rex?
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on April 28, 2010, 04:01:59 AM
What kind of person would want to live a life of perpetual celibacy?
Why not? Think of all the bullshit you avoid what with the dinner and a movie nonsense wondering when she's finally going to be ready to put out only to have to leverage whatever possible ass you can score into having to go to arts and crafts shows during the wild card weekend and that's only if you're not trapped in the Friend Zone and that's not the Friend Zone with her but her own friends who silently judge and conspire against you.
Priests just can't sleep in on Sundays, and Mass is over by kickoff anyway.
Fags are right. Being a cuntslave sucks.
Pardon me if I can't weep tears for you, Seed, at this juncture.
Quote from: garbon on April 28, 2010, 04:17:25 AM
Pardon me if I can't weep tears for you, Seed, at this juncture.
Why not. I do.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 28, 2010, 04:18:24 AM
Why not. I do.
Because your condition is not critical. Besides, having recently started an attempt at a sincere relationship, I don't really see what the big deal is. Do it if you want, drop it if you don't.
WTF surely Maryland hookers don't demand that you meet their friends? If so MD = FIAL. :bleeding:
Quote from: The Brain on April 28, 2010, 04:30:07 AM
WTF surely Maryland hookers don't demand that you meet their friends? If so MD = FIAL. :bleeding:
:lol:
I think Seedy would make a good priest. :)
Quote from: garbon on April 28, 2010, 04:24:49 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 28, 2010, 04:18:24 AM
Why not. I do.
Because your condition is not critical. Besides, having recently started an attempt at a sincere relationship, I don't really see what the big deal is. Do it if you want, drop it if you don't.
ZOMG TBR SANKTITTY VIOLATR
Quote from: Razgovory on April 28, 2010, 05:02:03 AM
I think Seedy would make a good priest. :)
I'd make an awesome priest.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 28, 2010, 04:15:15 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on April 28, 2010, 04:01:59 AM
What kind of person would want to live a life of perpetual celibacy?
Why not? Think of all the bullshit you avoid what with the dinner and a movie nonsense wondering when she's finally going to be ready to put out only to have to leverage whatever possible ass you can score into having to go to arts and crafts shows during the wild card weekend and that's only if you're not trapped in the Friend Zone and that's not the Friend Zone with her but her own friends who silently judge and conspire against you.
Priests just can't sleep in on Sundays, and Mass is over by kickoff anyway.
Fags are right. Being a cuntslave sucks.
And yet for all that, you still wouldn't want a life of celibacy. ;)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 28, 2010, 04:15:15 AM
Fags are right. Being a cuntslave sucks.
Took you long enough. However you're getting old for the endless hot sex that is our prerogative. On the other hand you're wealthy enough to find a compliant boy toy, one that will welcome the cuffs and anal ramming. :contract:
Welcome into the welcoming embrace of our Faith(TM). :hug:
G.
Quote from: The Brain on April 28, 2010, 02:05:48 AM
QuoteCelibacy is not "untouchable"
Just like little children!
I wanted to say the same when I saw the thread title!
In a world of declining religosity having your most religious of people not breed is silly.
Quote from: Alatriste on April 28, 2010, 02:07:28 AM
It would be quite revolutionary
Not at all - for much of Late Antiquity it was quite common for priests to be ordained later in life after they had a family. The expectation and ideal was that marital relations would cease but that was not always enforced strictly.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 28, 2010, 10:03:24 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on April 28, 2010, 02:07:28 AM
It would be quite revolutionary
Not at all - for much of Late Antiquity it was quite common for priests to be ordained later in life after they had a family. The expectation and ideal was that marital relations would cease but that was not always enforced strictly.
It wouldn't be unprecedented, but it would be a tremendous change--if you think of the three vows of celibacy, obediance, and poverty that many priests make--once you remove chastity it becomes hard to make the other two (you can't tell a potential father he needs to stay in poverty, and must follow the directions which may move him to a dangerous place or job). There is also probably something to the idea that the Catholic Church is less open to change than mainstream protestant sects because its clergy is has to make much more extreme lifestyle changes due to celibacy and thus keeps out more secular individuals--ending celibacy could open the floodgates to change.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 28, 2010, 10:39:09 AM
It wouldn't be unprecedented, but it would be a tremendous change--if you think of the three vows of celibacy, obediance, and poverty that many priests make--once you remove chastity it becomes hard to make the other two (you can't tell a potential father he needs to stay in poverty, and must follow the directions which may move him to a dangerous place or job). There is also probably something to the idea that the Catholic Church is less open to change than mainstream protestant sects because its clergy is has to make much more extreme lifestyle changes due to celibacy and thus keeps out more secular individuals--ending celibacy could open the floodgates to change.
The Church has been around for almost 2000 years; it has had to be open to change and will need to be in the future to survive.
The strict enforcement of celibacy and marriage bans was the product of a particular social environment, not some irrevocable and inevitable dogmatic truth. In a feudal era where status was inherited, the Church needed to have some mechanism to keep control over its property and to maintain authority over its people. That era has long past and the Church now faces a radically altered social reality that requires a different approach.
Quote from: Alatriste on April 28, 2010, 02:07:28 AM
Don't be. Even today there is a non insignificant - and growing - number of married Catholic priests, because the Catholic Church does accept Anglican and Orthodox Greek priests in the 'true faith' ranks with their wives and sons. Also, supposedly some Catholic priests in Eastern Europe did marry during the Cold War; Rome granted them exemptions from celibacy due to the secret or semi-secret nature of their missions.
they accept any married man as priest, they just don't allow priests to marry after they take their vows.
Quote from: Grallon on April 28, 2010, 07:11:05 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 28, 2010, 04:15:15 AM
Fags are right. Being a cuntslave sucks.
Took you long enough. However you're getting old for the endless hot sex that is our prerogative. On the other hand you're wealthy enough to find a compliant boy toy, one that will welcome the cuffs and anal ramming. :contract:
Welcome into the welcoming embrace of our Faith(TM). :hug:
G.
sounds like you are volunteering for Cdm...
You can't take away celibacy. Celibacy is what makes Catholic priests special. Well that and organized pedophilia.
Quote from: Martinus on April 28, 2010, 07:44:29 AM
Quote from: The Brain on April 28, 2010, 02:05:48 AM
QuoteCelibacy is not "untouchable"
Just like little children!
I wanted to say the same when I saw the thread title!
So did I. :(
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 28, 2010, 12:40:23 PM
The Church has been around for almost 2000 years; it has had to be open to change and will need to be in the future to survive.
The strict enforcement of celibacy and marriage bans was the product of a particular social environment, not some irrevocable and inevitable dogmatic truth. In a feudal era where status was inherited, the Church needed to have some mechanism to keep control over its property and to maintain authority over its people. That era has long past and the Church now faces a radically altered social reality that requires a different approach.
I don't disagree as far as the health of the Catholic Church is concerned.
I'm just pointing out that the clergy of the Catholic Church makes the rules, and what most of the clergy has in common is that it has taken the vow of celibacy and is living the lifestyle of a priest under those rules. For the policy to change, elderly members of the clergy like the pope need to put in place changes that makes the mode of life they have lived obsolete and end a defining mark of priestly culture for the past 1,000 years. For a conservative like Pope Benedict, you are putting the future of the church into the hands of a future clergy that is likely going to be much more socially progressive.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 28, 2010, 10:39:09 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 28, 2010, 10:03:24 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on April 28, 2010, 02:07:28 AM
It would be quite revolutionary
Not at all - for much of Late Antiquity it was quite common for priests to be ordained later in life after they had a family. The expectation and ideal was that marital relations would cease but that was not always enforced strictly.
It wouldn't be unprecedented, but it would be a tremendous change--if you think of the three vows of celibacy, obediance, and poverty that many priests make--once you remove chastity it becomes hard to make the other two (you can't tell a potential father he needs to stay in poverty, and must follow the directions which may move him to a dangerous place or job). There is also probably something to the idea that the Catholic Church is less open to change than mainstream protestant sects because its clergy is has to make much more extreme lifestyle changes due to celibacy and thus keeps out more secular individuals--ending celibacy could open the floodgates to change.
Even today, there are non-celibate Catholic priests; for example, Ukranian Catholic priests can have wives, as long as they marry 'em before they become priests. My wife's family's Catholic church has a priest who is married, and is presumably not celibate.
Priestly celibacy is only required for the Latin Rite within the Catholic Church. They are the majority, but certainly not all, of the Church; it isn't a doctine of faith binding on Catholics per se.
Quote from: Malthus on April 28, 2010, 02:13:54 PM
Even today, there are non-celibate Catholic priests; for example, Ukranian Catholic priests can have wives, as long as they marry 'em before they become priests. My wife's family's Catholic church has a priest who is married, and is presumably not celibate.
Priestly celibacy is only required for the Latin Rite within the Catholic Church. They are the majority, but certainly not all, of the Church; it isn't a doctine of faith binding on Catholics per se.
I realize this, and while doctrinally it may not be a huge change, for priestly culture that is currently celibate it would be a tsunami and would have a huge impact on the type of people entering the priesthood.
Which might be good.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 28, 2010, 02:19:52 PM
I realize this, and while doctrinally it may not be a huge change, for priestly culture that is currently celibate it would be a tsunami and would have a huge impact on the type of people entering the priesthood.
Possible, but not likely, as the priestly culture today is not completely celibate, and the introduction of non-celibate priests appears to have created no problems at all. I would argue that a bigger impact than the loss of celibate culture would be the re-introduction of parish priests - the catholic clergy would no longer be moving from church to church to cover all of the parishes which the shortage of priests will not permit to have a permanently assigned priest.
Quote from: Malthus on April 28, 2010, 02:13:54 PM
Priestly celibacy is only required for the Latin Rite within the Catholic Church. They are the majority, but certainly not all, of the Church; it isn't a doctine of faith binding on Catholics per se.
no, they have the same rules in the Latin Rite. But it's not advertized.
Quote from: Grallon on April 28, 2010, 07:11:05 AM
Took you long enough. However you're getting old for the endless hot sex that is our prerogative.
Only if he was seeking to have sex with a child. I think you would be hard pressed to tell individuals 35+ in SF that they were getting old for endless hot sex.
Quote from: viper37 on April 28, 2010, 02:50:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 28, 2010, 02:13:54 PM
Priestly celibacy is only required for the Latin Rite within the Catholic Church. They are the majority, but certainly not all, of the Church; it isn't a doctine of faith binding on Catholics per se.
no, they have the same rules in the Latin Rite. But it's not advertized.
I never knew that. Only married Catholic priests I know are Ukranian. But then, I don't know many priests.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on April 28, 2010, 04:01:59 AM
What kind of person would want to live a life of perpetual celibacy?
Me :ph34r:
Half-joking.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 28, 2010, 10:39:09 AM
It wouldn't be unprecedented, but it would be a tremendous change--if you think of the three vows of celibacy, obediance, and poverty that many priests make--once you remove chastity it becomes hard to make the other two (you can't tell a potential father he needs to stay in poverty, and must follow the directions which may move him to a dangerous place or job).
I can see the problem with forciing a man with a family to take a vow of property, but not so much the vow of obediance. Soldiers take a vow to obey orders, and those orders can definately take them to dangerous places, yet that doesn't stop married men from joining the Army.
Quote from: Alatriste
Empty seminaries have been deeply troubling Rome for a long time too.
If the Catholic Church were to do away with clerical celebacy, I think it would have more to do with this than with the molestation scandal.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 28, 2010, 12:56:08 PM
For a conservative like Pope Benedict, you are putting the future of the church into the hands of a future clergy that is likely going to be much more socially progressive.
Is there any actual evidence that a non-celibate clergy would, in fact, likely be more socially progressive? That would be my gut instinct, but OTOH, the Southern Baptist clergy isn't celibate, but isn't exactly socially progressive either.
Quote from: dps on April 28, 2010, 03:28:19 PM
Is there any actual evidence that a non-celibate clergy would, in fact, likely be more socially progressive? That would be my gut instinct, but OTOH, the Southern Baptist clergy isn't celibate, but isn't exactly socially progressive either.
Not that I know of--just a guess on my part. Southern Baptists are probably much more socially conservative because they are southern white guys. Catholics tend not to be southern white guys.
Quote from: garbon on April 28, 2010, 02:54:58 PM
Only if he was seeking to have sex with a child. I think you would be hard pressed to tell individuals 35+ in SF that they were getting old for endless hot sex.
I think you should wait to get there before predicting anything in that particular regards... Especially considering your... looks.
G.
Quote from: Grallon on April 28, 2010, 06:52:11 PM
I think you should wait to get there before predicting anything in that particular regards... Especially considering your... looks.
G.
I'm not predicting anything, simply reporting. It is demonstrably untrue that gays 35+ in SF have a hard time getting laid. Why both here and Palm Springs celebrate age. So once again, he wouldn't have any trouble unless he was chasing after children like you...although as you already pointed out, he'd fair better as he actually has cash.