It doesn't look like he really said anything quite that outrageous; but details like that have never slowed Al Jazeera down:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/09/200992116049879437.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/09/200992116049879437.html)
QuoteUS 'likely behind' Chavez coup
Carter, left, said it was understandable that Chavez blames the US for the abortive coup [EPA]
Jimmy Carter, a former US president, has said that Washington knew about an abortive coup against Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, in 2002, and that it may even have taken part.
"I think there is no doubt that in 2002, the United States had at the very least full knowledge about the coup, and could even have been directly involved," Carter said in an interview with Colombian El Tiempo newspaper published on Sunday.
Carter said it was understandable that Chavez continues to blame the US for the failed attempt to overthrow him.
Chavez was deposed by a civilian-military junta for about 48 hours in April 2002, before returning to power.
George Bush, the then US president, denied any US involvement in the abortive coup and called on Chavez, who is critical of US policy, to "learn a lesson" from the attempted overthrow.
'Receding popularity'
Carter told El Tiempo that he believed Chavez was elected in a "fair" vote in 1999, had carried out necessary reforms for Venezuela and ensured that "those who are traditionally excluded are able to get a larger share of the national wealth".
But he also said he was worried by the Venezuelan leader's drift towards "authoritarianism" and added that he felt Chavez's popularity at home and his influence abroad have receded.
Carter said that Barack Obama, the US president, had told him he would eventually like to have normal relations with Venezuela.
"But he [Chavez] has made this almost impossible," Carter said, adding that "international relations would be better if he would stop his attacks and insults against the United States".
That evil Carter. First he almost supported Wallace now this! When will his evil end?
Jimmy doubles down.
Next up: the truth about 9/11?
Well great now every Swede and Portutard is going to assume the US government actually engineered the whole thing.
QuoteI think there is no doubt that in 2002, the United States had at the very least full knowledge about the coup
Why is there no doubt? If we are so freaking omniscient and almighty can't we someday use that to actually do something useful?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2009, 02:40:10 PM
Jimmy doubles down.
Next up: the truth about 9/11?
Jimmy needs to shut up man. He has no evidence to support this ridiculous claim only that he assumes it to be true. It is like we elected Martim Silva to the Presidency.
Actually speaking of truthers this is exactly the sort of logic that spawns conspiracy theories: just assuming brilliance and superpowers by the US government. Surely this tower of wisdom and infinite knowledge never makes any mistakes or fails to know about everything that is going to happen so how can there be any doubt they were not behind it?
Quote from: Valmy on September 21, 2009, 02:41:19 PM
Jimmy needs to shut up man. He has no evidence to support this ridiculous claim only that he assumes it to be true. It is like we elected Martim Silva to the Presidency.
Jimmy was a uboat commander. He can just tell man.
I think we need to schedule Carter for end-of-life counseling.
Anyone get al Jazeera? There's an article in The Atlantic in which the author absolutely raves about their reporting.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2009, 02:49:51 PM
Anyone get al Jazeera? There's an article in The Atlantic in which the author absolutely raves about their reporting.
Yeah. It's absolutely superb. I'd say it's the best news channel I get (most of the US ones, the British ones, the Japanese, Chinese, French, Russian and Iranian ones).
I think the big distinction is that it just seems to do far more on most of the world, it makes the other channels seem more parochial.
What ever happened to Pres Carter? He's been off the deep end for a while now.
He used to be known for his work with Habitat for Humanity, monitoring elections in other countries (I think), and some other good stuff. Yes, he had a bad run as President, wasn't seen too kindly there. But it's been as if he's trying to cement his place as the worst US former President. :huh:
I am waiting for JR and Seedy to tell us how even though there isn't any evidence for these assertions, we can presume they are true anyway, because Carter just knows about things like this, no matter how careful the perps are to mask their language.
Quote from: Valmy on September 21, 2009, 02:40:25 PM
Why is there no doubt? If we are so freaking omniscient and almighty can't we someday use that to actually do something useful?
IIRC, former presidents get routine intelligence briefings.
Quote from: Berkut on September 21, 2009, 03:06:50 PM
I am waiting for JR and Seedy to tell us how even though there isn't any evidence for these assertions, we can presume they are true anyway, because Carter just knows about things like this, no matter how careful the perps are to mask their language.
I don't think Joan ever said anything like that. You need to get your culprits straight.
Seedy said Carter could tell because Carter was a southerner, and Seedy could tell Carter was right because Seedy is from a slave state.
Faeelin said he could tell himself; said nothing about Carter being right or wrong.
Shelf said unspecified people can tell.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on September 21, 2009, 03:10:19 PM
IIRC, former presidents get routine intelligence briefings.
Link? Yeah right telling a guys political opponents all about what their secret international dealings are sounds like a great idea.
Eh. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're a senile old fool.
Quote from: Faeelin on September 21, 2009, 03:39:47 PM
Eh. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're a senile old fool.
Translation: Sometimes you agree with me, and sometimes you don't.
Quote from: Valmy on September 21, 2009, 03:36:16 PM
Link? Yeah right telling a guys political opponents all about what their secret international dealings are sounds like a great idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Daily_Brief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Daily_Brief)
QuoteFormer Presidents are entitled to receive the [President's Daily Brief], if they so desire, only after the sitting President actually receives his daily briefing.
Quote from: Berkut on September 21, 2009, 03:45:06 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on September 21, 2009, 03:39:47 PM
Eh. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're a senile old fool.
Translation: Sometimes you agree with me, and sometimes you don't.
Pretty much, yep.
Quote from: Valmy on September 21, 2009, 02:40:25 PM
Why is there no doubt? If we are so freaking omniscient and almighty can't we someday use that to actually do something useful?
I think people often confuse or misunderstand what that means in operational terms. Absent of actual malice, a failure to act while having "full knowledge" can mean any of the following:
1. We "know" it, we don't know if it is true.
2. We have other things going on.
3. We can't do anything about it, and we don't want to compromise our sources.
Etc.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on September 21, 2009, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 21, 2009, 03:36:16 PM
Link? Yeah right telling a guys political opponents all about what their secret international dealings are sounds like a great idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Daily_Brief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Daily_Brief)
QuoteFormer Presidents are entitled to receive the [President's Daily Brief], if they so desire, only after the sitting President actually receives his daily briefing.
Well go figure maybe Carter did also know about the Coup in advance and he failed to inform the Venezuelan government about it. Jimmy Carter was behind the Chavez Coup.
On the issue of omniscience:
Is it inconceivable US intelligence operatives may have known about the coup before it happened? That they may have been contacted by the plotters to guage the potential US reaction, perhaps solicit support? Because if this is plausible, then it is plausible that the US "knew" about the coup, in some way?
Given the proximity of the US to the whole situation, it would be something of a blunder if the coup attempt really did come unexpected to US intelligence.
This has nothing to do with the US being 'behind' the coup, of course.
Quote from: Warspite on September 21, 2009, 04:22:35 PM
Is it inconceivable US intelligence operatives may have known about the coup before it happened? That they may have been contacted by the plotters to guage the potential US reaction, perhaps solicit support? Because if this is plausible, then it is plausible that the US "knew" about the coup, in some way?
Given the proximity of the US to the whole situation, it would be something of a blunder if the coup attempt really did come unexpected to US intelligence.
Well given the fact the US government was responsible for the construction of New Orleans Levees it would be reasonable to assume they were not built on swamp peat and sand either. Nobody ever lost money betting the US Government blundered.
It is certainly possible they knew a coup was coming but I see nothing in our track record suggesting it is something that can be safely assumed or something we can have no doubt about. Heck we were caught unprepared for the freaking economic crisis that was predicted on this Message Board years ago.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2009, 03:11:46 PM
Seedy said Carter could tell because Carter was a southerner, and Seedy could tell Carter was right because Seedy is from a slave state.
:lol: :P
Quote from: Warspite on September 21, 2009, 04:22:35 PM
Given the proximity of the US to the whole situation, it would be something of a blunder if the coup attempt really did come unexpected to US intelligence.
This has nothing to do with the US being 'behind' the coup, of course.
Amen. Considering all the DEA listening posts from Columbia to Ft. Huachuca, honestly I'd be disappointed if we didn't know about the coup going down. We get to hear lots of shit.
Doesn't mean we were "behind" anything, which isn't even what Carter said, but the Languishite GOPtards will contort it anyway, because they want their country back from Teh Evil Nigger and His Big Govmint Minions(tm).
Jeanne Kirkpatrick was having dinner at the Argentinian ambassador's residence the night the Falklands were invaded. Think she heard anything? If she did, does that mean we were "behind" it?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2009, 02:49:51 PM
Anyone get al Jazeera? There's an article in The Atlantic in which the author absolutely raves about their reporting.
I watch it online from their English website for free (http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ (http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/)), though the real player stream wouldn't work for me so I have to watch it through a third-party program linked on their site.
Quote from: Valmy on September 21, 2009, 02:41:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2009, 02:40:10 PM
Jimmy doubles down.
Next up: the truth about 9/11?
Jimmy needs to shut up man. He has no evidence to support this ridiculous claim only that he assumes it to be true. It is like we elected Martim Silva to the Presidency.
Don't ex-pres get CIA briefings on a regular basis if they so choose? I think papa Bush did/does.
Quote from: Valmy on September 21, 2009, 03:36:16 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on September 21, 2009, 03:10:19 PM
IIRC, former presidents get routine intelligence briefings.
Link? Yeah right telling a guys political opponents all about what their secret international dealings are sounds like a great idea.
I think it's bad show for a former President to be discussing what the current President's told them - which seems to be the case here, Carter discussing that Obama wants normal relations with Venezuela. That he's doing it to a foreign newspaper also seems a bit off.
QuoteIs it inconceivable US intelligence operatives may have known about the coup before it happened? That they may have been contacted by the plotters to guage the potential US reaction, perhaps solicit support? Because if this is plausible, then it is plausible that the US "knew" about the coup, in some way?
It's on the record that the coup plotters met with American representatives. The Americans apparently told them to stick to constitutional means and I believe they were investigated, again by the US government, who cleared them and their respective departments of any wrongdoing.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 21, 2009, 06:06:11 PM
It's on the record that the coup plotters met with American representatives. The Americans apparently told them to stick to constitutional means and I believe they were investigated, again by the US government, who cleared them and their respective departments of any wrongdoing.
Um I am sure even Chavez knew there were plottings of a coup afoot. Having 'full knowledge' means we knew what and when and how.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 21, 2009, 05:07:43 PM
Amen. Considering all the DEA listening posts from Columbia to Ft. Huachuca, honestly I'd be disappointed if we didn't know about the coup going down. We get to hear lots of shit.
Doesn't mean we were "behind" anything, which isn't even what Carter said, but the Languishite GOPtards will contort it anyway, because they want their country back from Teh Evil Nigger and His Big Govmint Minions(tm).
Um dude:
Quote"I think there is no doubt that in 2002, the United States had at the very least full knowledge about the coup, and could even have been directly involved," Carter said in an interview with Colombian El Tiempo newspaper published on Sunday.
Carter said it was understandable that Chavez continues to blame the US for the failed attempt to overthrow him.
I mean come on man. He is basically saying all of Chavez's paranoid bullshit and the all the conspiracy theories are reasonable and might even be true. He did not come out and say we were behind it but he acts like it is understandable for people to think so.
Quote from: Valmy on September 21, 2009, 07:15:51 PM
I mean come on man. He is basically saying all of Chavez's paranoid bullshit and the all the conspiracy theories are true.
"COULD" does not equal "WAS".
And you seem to have forgotten how the word "understandable" is used. As in, "it's understandable why you still hold out hope for Vince Young". Doesn't make it so.
If Carter read about the coup plan from the daily briefings, then wouldn't Chavez learn about it as well?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 21, 2009, 07:19:05 PM
And you seem to have forgotten how the word "understandable" is used. As in, "it's understandable why you still hold out hope for Vince Young". Doesn't make it so.
Dude he said the US may even have been directly involved and it is understandable to think so for fucksake. That statement in itself is simply disgusting much less saying it absolutely is so.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 21, 2009, 06:06:11 PM
I think it's bad show for a former President to be discussing what the current President's told them - which seems to be the case here, Carter discussing that Obama wants normal relations with Venezuela. That he's doing it to a foreign newspaper also seems a bit off.
He's probably just happy to be included again. He's probably been kept in the dark for the last eight years, due to the fact that he's a terrorist sympathizer and has taken to opposing American interests.
Quote from: Valmy on September 21, 2009, 07:24:44 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 21, 2009, 07:19:05 PM
And you seem to have forgotten how the word "understandable" is used. As in, "it's understandable why you still hold out hope for Vince Young". Doesn't make it so.
Dude he said the US may even have been directly involved and it is understandable to think so for fucksake. That statement in itself is simply disgusting much less saying it absolutely is so.
Indeed. One would hope that if the US had been involved, Chavez would be in a shallow grave by now.
Quote from: DGuller on September 21, 2009, 07:19:20 PM
If Carter read about the coup plan from the daily briefings, then wouldn't Chavez learn about it as well?
Maybe that's why it failed. :lol:
Quote from: Valmy on September 21, 2009, 07:24:44 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 21, 2009, 07:19:05 PM
And you seem to have forgotten how the word "understandable" is used. As in, "it's understandable why you still hold out hope for Vince Young". Doesn't make it so.
Dude he said the US may even have been directly involved and it is understandable to think so for fucksake.
Yes, it is completely beyond the pale to suggest that the US may have been involved in a coup in Latin or South America. After all, it would be the first time we had violated our strict isolationist policy.
Quote from: ulmont on September 21, 2009, 09:12:19 PM
Yes, it is completely beyond the pale to suggest that the US may have been involved in a coup in Latin or South America. After all, it would be the first time we had violated our strict isolationist policy.
Would you be OK with Carter if he suggested Obama might be getting his dick sucked in the Oval Office?
Quote from: KRonn on September 21, 2009, 03:00:30 PM
What ever happened to Pres Carter? He's been off the deep end for a while now.
He used to be known for his work with Habitat for Humanity, monitoring elections in other countries (I think), and some other good stuff. Yes, he had a bad run as President, wasn't seen too kindly there. But it's been as if he's trying to cement his place as the worst US former President. :huh:
Isn't he like Strom Thurmond old? maybe it's the senility setting in..
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2009, 09:33:56 PM
Quote from: ulmont on September 21, 2009, 09:12:19 PM
Yes, it is completely beyond the pale to suggest that the US may have been involved in a coup in Latin or South America. After all, it would be the first time we had violated our strict isolationist policy.
Would you be OK with Carter if he suggested Obama might be getting his dick sucked in the Oval Office?
he'd better be. those are called "perks".
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2009, 09:33:56 PM
Quote from: ulmont on September 21, 2009, 09:12:19 PM
Yes, it is completely beyond the pale to suggest that the US may have been involved in a coup in Latin or South America. After all, it would be the first time we had violated our strict isolationist policy.
Would you be OK with Carter if he suggested Obama might be getting his dick sucked in the Oval Office?
If Carter said "it would be understandable if Person X believed Obama was getting his dick sucked in the Oval Office" I don't think I would disagree.