As she plows a path of destruction through New Europe...
QuoteMadonna booed in Bucharest for defending Gypsies
By ALINA WOLFE MURRAY (AP) – 2 hours ago
BUCHAREST, Romania — At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers.
The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe.
Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent.
Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies.
"There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog," Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday.
Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions.
Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000.
Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage.
That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide "Sticky and Sweet" tour — to touch on their plight.
"It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe," she said. "It made me feel very sad."
Thousands booed and jeered her.
A few cheered when she added: "We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone." But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others.
"I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things?" said Ionut Dinu, 23.
Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her New York-based publicist did not immediately return an e-mail message sent by The Associated Press on Thursday seeking comment.
"It's contradictory: Romanians watch Gypsy soap operas, they like Gypsy music and go to Gypsy concerts," said Damian Draghici, a Grammy Award-winning Roma musician who has performed with James Brown and Joe Cocker.
"But there has been a wave of aggression against Roma people in Italy, Hungary and Romania, which shows me something is not OK," he told the AP in an interview. "The politicians have to do something about it. People have to be educated not to be prejudiced. All people are equal, and that is the message politicians must give."
Nearly one in two of Europe's estimated 12 million Roma claimed to have suffered an act of discrimination over the past 12 months, according to a recent report by the Vienna-based EU Fundamental Rights Agency. The group says Roma face "overt discrimination" in housing, health care and education.
Many do not have official identification, which means they cannot get social benefits, are undereducated and struggle to find decent jobs.
Roma children are more likely to drop out of school than their peers from other ethnic groups. Many Romanians label Gypsies as thieves, and many are outraged by those who beg or commit petty crimes in Western Europe, believing they spoil Romania's image abroad.
In May 2007, Romanian President Traian Basescu was heard to call a Romanian journalist a "stinky Gypsy" during a conversation with his wife. Romania's anti-discrimination board criticized Basescu, who later apologized.
Human rights activists say the attacks in Hungary, which began in July 2008, may be tied to that country's economic crisis and the rising popularity of far-right vigilantes angered by a rash of petty thefts and other so-called "Gypsy crime." Last week, police arrested four suspects in a nightclub in the eastern city of Debrecen.
Bulgaria, the Czech Republic and Slovakia also have been criticized for widespread bias against Roma.
Madonna's outrage touched a nerve in Romania, but it seems doubtful it will change anything, said the Soros Foundation's Motoc.
"Madonna is a pop star. She is not an expert on interethnic relations," he said.
What was anyone doing at a Madonna concert anyway?? :unsure:
Serves them right for going! ;)
The Sticky and Sweet tour is still on-going?
Romanians just went up a few notches in my book.
What is the beef against Gypsies anyway?
Tamas seems like a perfectly decent fellow.
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2009, 12:51:50 PM
What is the beef against Gypsies anyway?
Tamas seems like a perfectly decent fellow.
Gypsies.......its not so much the question whats wrong with them as to wonder if there is anything right about them. They are a close second to arab suicide bombers on my list of people I dislike. That said I´m sure they get the short end of the stick repeatedly and unfairly but for some reason anyone willing to go out on a limb for them always end up kicked in the face. Funny thing I know some gypsies that are doing well but then they left their shitty culture behind and integrated into society.
Cecil, you have to be more specific.
What do the gypsies do that is so wrong?
Quote from: Cecil on August 27, 2009, 01:19:49 PMFunny thing I know some gypsies that are doing well but then they left their shitty culture behind and integrated into society.
That in a nutshell is what he's trying to say.
Gypsies are OK, once they've assimilated an no longer act, talk or look like gypsies.
Quote from: Josephus on August 27, 2009, 01:26:35 PM
Quote from: Cecil on August 27, 2009, 01:19:49 PMFunny thing I know some gypsies that are doing well but then they left their shitty culture behind and integrated into society.
That in a nutshell is what he's trying to say.
Gypsies are OK, once they've assimilated an no longer act, talk or look like gypsies.
Why would I care how they look or talk?
Quote from: Josephus on August 27, 2009, 01:26:35 PM
Quote from: Cecil on August 27, 2009, 01:19:49 PMFunny thing I know some gypsies that are doing well but then they left their shitty culture behind and integrated into society.
That in a nutshell is what he's trying to say.
Gypsies are OK, once they've assimilated an no longer act, talk or look like gypsies.
Or bathe (or not) like gypsies. The infrequent bathing is particularly unhygienic and disgusting.
Quote from: Siege on August 27, 2009, 01:22:53 PM
Cecil, you have to be more specific.
What do the gypsies do that is so wrong?
Steal a lot of stuff & refuse to be educated/assimilated. All of which is central to their culture. Plus they smell really, really bad.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2009, 01:29:28 PMPlus they smell really, really bad.
Isn't that Euros in general? :P
Quote from: Siege on August 27, 2009, 01:22:53 PM
Cecil, you have to be more specific.
What do the gypsies do that is so wrong?
You be the Judge...
My sister works as a manager of a bar in England. Gypsies will come to town every few months. They'll come into the bar and their leader will come to her with a wad of cash and basically say this is what the gypsies are willing to pay for all the drink, food, and damages that they will do that night. The bar either accept it or not because they are going to do what they will regardless.
Quote from: Siege on August 27, 2009, 01:22:53 PM
What do the gypsies do that is so wrong?
You know how the Asians are all about education, pushing their kids to become doctors, engineers or scientists? Well, think of the Gypsies as the antithesis to that. They will take their kids out of school, sometimes when they can barely read.
Without an education, crime is the only path for many if not most.
None of which excuses the violence against Gypsies seen recently.
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2009, 01:43:45 PM
None of which excuses the violence against Gypsies seen recently.
OK, well, how about the violence BY gypsies recently? Tamas was mentioning a few vigilante groups who were stopping pretty much everyone passing through who weren't gypsies.
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2009, 01:43:45 PM
None of which excuses the violence against Gypsies seen recently.
Perhaps but then we dont beat our gypos up. You have to ask the easterners about that.
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2009, 01:43:45 PM
None of which excuses the violence against Gypsies seen recently.
No one is saying that it should excused. I believe they are saying that there are legitimate issues regarding gypsies that lead to the violence.
Quote from: Strix on August 27, 2009, 01:41:36 PM
Quote from: Siege on August 27, 2009, 01:22:53 PM
Cecil, you have to be more specific.
What do the gypsies do that is so wrong?
You be the Judge...
My sister works as a manager of a bar in England. Gypsies will come to town every few months. They'll come into the bar and their leader will come to her with a wad of cash and basically say this is what the gypsies are willing to pay for all the drink, food, and damages that they will do that night. The bar either accept it or not because they are going to do what they will regardless.
That's pretty nice of them to offer up the cash up front, really.
Wow, you Euros do seem to have lots of problems with Gypsies! :huh:
Quote from: Josephus on August 27, 2009, 02:12:46 PM
Quote from: Strix on August 27, 2009, 01:41:36 PM
Quote from: Siege on August 27, 2009, 01:22:53 PM
Cecil, you have to be more specific.
What do the gypsies do that is so wrong?
You be the Judge...
My sister works as a manager of a bar in England. Gypsies will come to town every few months. They'll come into the bar and their leader will come to her with a wad of cash and basically say this is what the gypsies are willing to pay for all the drink, food, and damages that they will do that night. The bar either accept it or not because they are going to do what they will regardless.
That's pretty nice of them to offer up the cash up front, really.
Not being a Euro, my sister gave them shit the first time they came in when she was working. Apparently it impressed them or maybe they found Americans funny but they always have been polite to her and made payment since.
Quote from: KRonn on August 27, 2009, 02:15:01 PM
Wow, you Euros do seem to have lots of problems with Gypsies! :huh:
Gypsies are new Jew :nods:
Quote from: Sahib on August 27, 2009, 03:07:13 PM
Quote from: KRonn on August 27, 2009, 02:15:01 PM
Wow, you Euros do seem to have lots of problems with Gypsies! :huh:
Gypsies are new Jew :nods:
Well they had to find someone to replace the old ones.
I'd say this is more predjudice against overly rich Americans telling them what to do than against the gypsies.
Well it's no wonder most of the Balkans joined the Axis.
Quote from: Sahib on August 27, 2009, 03:07:13 PM
Gypsies are new Jew :nods:
No, Gypsies are the old Gypsies.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 27, 2009, 03:12:08 PM
Well they had to find someone to replace the old ones.
:pinch:
Quote from: Habsburg on August 27, 2009, 03:18:02 PM
Well it's no wonder most of the Balkans joined the Axis.
Most? Bulgaria and Romania are most?
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2009, 03:24:08 PM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 27, 2009, 03:18:02 PM
Well it's no wonder most of the Balkans joined the Axis.
Most? Bulgaria and Romania are most?
And Hungary. I think that is most of the Balkans, since only Yugoslavia was left.
Or does Greece count as the Balkans? :huh:
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2009, 03:24:08 PM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 27, 2009, 03:18:02 PM
Well it's no wonder most of the Balkans joined the Axis.
Most? Bulgaria and Romania are most?
Hungary too. Also Croatia.
Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and they found MOST cooperative leaders in Jugoslavia.
In the civilized parts of Europe, the only men that could be found to run local Nazi governments were senile old war heroes. The real leaders formed resistance groups..
In the Balkans, "Lets get rid of the Jews and Gypsies, then we'll worry about independence!"
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2009, 03:26:13 PM
And Hungary. I think that is most of the Balkans, since only Yugoslavia was left.
Or does Greece count as the Balkans? :huh:
Balkans in 1939 = Yugoslavia, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania.
Greece and Hungary are not Balkan countries (though you can call them Balkan countries when you really want to annoy them).
Quote from: Razgovory on August 27, 2009, 03:26:45 PM
Hungary too. Also Croatia.
And Bulgaria saved its Jews and Romania pretty much only joined because its allies had all been conquered and then the Soviet Union swooped in and took Bessarabia.
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2009, 03:27:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2009, 03:26:13 PM
And Hungary. I think that is most of the Balkans, since only Yugoslavia was left.
Or does Greece count as the Balkans? :huh:
Balkans in 1939 = Yugoslavia, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania.
Greece and Hungary are not Balkan countries (though you can call them Balkan countries when you really want to annoy them).
Greece = as Balkan as you can get. You could maybe make a weak argument they are not part of the Balkans geographically, but culturally and politically they are as Balkan as Serbia or Bosnia.
Quote from: Jaron on August 27, 2009, 03:29:51 PM
Greece = as Balkan as you can get. You could maybe make a weak argument they are not part of the Balkans geographically, but culturally and politically they are as Balkan as Serbia or Bosnia.
Fair enough but they didn't join the Axis.
That is because Italy needed a teething ring. :P
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2009, 03:27:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2009, 03:26:13 PM
And Hungary. I think that is most of the Balkans, since only Yugoslavia was left.
Or does Greece count as the Balkans? :huh:
Balkans in 1939 = Yugoslavia, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania.
Greece and Hungary are not Balkan countries (though you can call them Balkan countries when you really want to annoy them).
Albania was controlled by Italy.
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2009, 03:34:45 PM
Albania was controlled by Italy.
Italy invaded in April.
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2009, 03:29:43 PM
And Bulgaria saved its Jews and Romania pretty much only joined because its allies had all been conquered and then the Soviet Union swooped in and took Bessarabia.
I notice you don't mention what Romania did with its Jews...
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2009, 03:29:43 PM
And Bulgaria saved its Jews and Romania pretty much only joined because its allies had all been conquered and then the Soviet Union swooped in and took Bessarabia.
Balkan Nazi apologist. :contract:
Quote from: Razgovory on August 27, 2009, 03:26:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2009, 03:24:08 PM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 27, 2009, 03:18:02 PM
Well it's no wonder most of the Balkans joined the Axis.
Most? Bulgaria and Romania are most?
Hungary too. Also Croatia.
Hungary is hardly Balkans.
Anyway, all except the Ustashe were basically coerced into Axis, so I don't think it's entirely fair comment.
Quote from: Sahib on August 27, 2009, 04:22:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 27, 2009, 03:26:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2009, 03:24:08 PM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 27, 2009, 03:18:02 PM
Well it's no wonder most of the Balkans joined the Axis.
Most? Bulgaria and Romania are most?
Hungary too. Also Croatia.
Hungary is hardly Balkans.
Anyway, all except the Ustashe were basically coerced into Axis, so I don't think it's entirely fair comment.
Next thing will be you and Valmy explaining Rumania, Bulgaria, and Ungarn joined because the majority of their populations couldn't
read.
"I hurd dey ver lookin fur Ghuards!!"
Of course what's missed in this whole thread is the obvious point.
WTF is Madonna doing in Romania. Has her career tanked that poorly? WTF tours in Bucharest?
With Romanians, she is lucky they didn't drag her off the stage right then and there and lynch her.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2009, 12:46:15 PM
Romanians just went up a few notches in my book.
Not surprised to see you side with racists.
Quote from: Josephus on August 27, 2009, 04:31:49 PM
Of course what's missed in this whole thread is the obvious point.
WTF is Madonna doing in Romania. Has her career tanked that poorly? WTF tours in Bucharest?
Umm, I think she's already done tours of the civilized world, seeing as how the album she is promoting came out last April.
*A quick check on wikipedia reveals that she has a few dates in Eastern Europe and then two in Israel before the end of the tour.
Quote from: Josephus on August 27, 2009, 04:31:49 PM
Of course what's missed in this whole thread is the obvious point.
WTF is Madonna doing in Romania. Has her career tanked that poorly? WTF tours in Bucharest?
I blame the global economy. The Black-Eyed Peas are slated to have a muslim-free concert in Malaysia. :contract:
Quote from: Martinus on August 27, 2009, 04:34:05 PM
Not surprised to see you side with racists.
It is a little surprising that he has such feelings of antipathy for Madonna. Why does he even care about her, one way or another? :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on August 27, 2009, 04:34:05 PM
Not surprised to see you side with racists.
Yeah, 'cuz I'm really, really racist, right? And are gypsies a 'race' anyway?
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2009, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 27, 2009, 04:34:05 PM
Not surprised to see you side with racists.
Yeah, 'cuz I'm really, really racist, right? And are gypsies a 'race' anyway?
Yes. "Paco, go make me tortillas".
:rolleyes:
A real tortilla is an omelet.
It's not like joining the Axis is a bad thing. The Soviet Union was with the Allies, therefore the Allies were the bad guys in WWII.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2009, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 27, 2009, 04:34:05 PM
Not surprised to see you side with racists.
Yeah, 'cuz I'm really, really racist, right? And are gypsies a 'race' anyway?
You are from West Virginia aren't you? And yeah I think they are a race.
Quote from: Jaron on August 27, 2009, 03:26:56 PM
Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and they found MOST cooperative leaders in Jugoslavia.
In the civilized parts of Europe, the only men that could be found to run local Nazi governments were senile old war heroes. The real leaders formed resistance groups..
In the Balkans, "Lets get rid of the Jews and Gypsies, then we'll worry about independence!"
Which is uncommonly clever for those swarthy half-turks.
In the short term, yes, they're giving up some liberties but eventually they will be free again.
In the long term, they're getting rid of their gypsy population, or would've if not for the intervention of those snotty would-be do-gooders, the legion of well-meaning fools.
You have to look at the big picture.
Gypsies :bleeding:
I agree it's wrong to single them out for violence, but I encountered them in Italy (most notably in Florence, Pisa, and Verona) and they were, to put it mildly, a nuisance. As someone else said, they are absolutely filthy and they do nothing but beg and use their kids as pickpockets while you're distracted by their begging.
Quote from: Caliga on August 27, 2009, 07:44:31 PM
Gypsies :bleeding:
I agree it's wrong to single them out for violence, but I encountered them in Italy (most notably in Florence, Pisa, and Verona) and they were, to put it mildly, a nuisance. As someone else said, they are absolutely filthy and they do nothing but beg and use their kids as pickpockets while you're distracted by their begging.
I saw that exact scenario with Gypsies in Rome. The older ones begging while the kids run around picking pockets. One kid got caught and the guy who had him was holding on hard, not letting him go, and screaming "POLIZZZIIIAAAAA!"
Quote from: Jaron on August 27, 2009, 04:51:15 PM
Yes. "Paco, go make me tortillas".
:rolleyes:
He doesn't say that to Katmai, Lusti or Tim. So it's not racist, merely anti-Jaronist. :contract:
Quote from: Neil on August 27, 2009, 06:48:56 PM
It's not like joining the Axis is a bad thing. The Soviet Union was with the Allies, therefore the Allies were the bad guys in WWII.
Who are you saying this for? Everyone here's been on to you for five years or so.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 27, 2009, 09:40:49 PM
He doesn't say that to Katmai, Lusti or Tim. So it's not racist, merely anti-Jaronist. :contract:
:yes:
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2009, 04:35:29 PM
It is a little surprising that he has such feelings of antipathy for Madonna. Why does he even care about her, one way or another? :huh:
She's always finding new ways to annoy me. And her fans are an entire new layer of annoyance. But generally yeah, I prefer to ignore her.
It doesn't matter if it is used on one or a million. Dershits line of attack is always along racial lines. That and his open distaste for anything not white sounds like a racist to me.
I think youtube must have been reading this thread because this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2) was in my recommended list. :lol:
Quote from: Iormlund on August 27, 2009, 01:42:07 PM
They will take their kids out of school, sometimes when they can barely read.
Without an education, crime is the only path for many if not most.
What is the rationale behind that attitude? :unsure:
Quote from: Monoriu on August 27, 2009, 10:58:29 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on August 27, 2009, 01:42:07 PM
They will take their kids out of school, sometimes when they can barely read.
Without an education, crime is the only path for many if not most.
What is the rationale behind that attitude? :unsure:
Education will estrange them from their community is my guess.
Quote from: DGuller on August 27, 2009, 11:08:52 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on August 27, 2009, 10:58:29 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on August 27, 2009, 01:42:07 PM
They will take their kids out of school, sometimes when they can barely read.
Without an education, crime is the only path for many if not most.
What is the rationale behind that attitude? :unsure:
Education will estrange them from their community is my guess.
Forbidding kids from being educated is one of the most bizarre and crazy cultural traits I've ever heard of. For this reason I'm not even sure if it is true. I mean, a lot of Chinese parents will consider the education needs of their children the absolute number one priority, even more important than putting a roof above their head. Even the worst parents who don't give a shit will just leave the system to handle their kids, and will not actively seek to take their kids away from schools.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2009, 09:54:03 PM
She's always finding new ways to annoy me. And her fans are an entire new layer of annoyance. But generally yeah, I prefer to ignore her.
Am I: an annoyance? :cry:
Quote from: Monoriu on August 27, 2009, 11:17:11 PM
Forbidding kids from being educated is one of the most bizarre and crazy cultural traits I've ever heard of. For this reason I'm not even sure if it is true. I mean, a lot of Chinese parents will consider the education needs of their children the absolute number one priority, even more important than putting a roof above their head. Even the worst parents who don't give a shit will just leave the system to handle their kids, and will not actively seek to take their kids away from schools.
It's actually pretty well documented. I would guess at paranoid xenophobia myself, and I can't imagine that World War II helped matters either; gypsies were probably close enough to the epicenter to see propaganda in action, especially as it pertained to their being one of the groups that was being slaughtered when caught.
Quote from: Strix on August 27, 2009, 01:41:36 PM
My sister works as a manager of a bar in England. Gypsies will come to town every few months. They'll come into the bar and their leader will come to her with a wad of cash and basically say this is what the gypsies are willing to pay for all the drink, food, and damages that they will do that night. The bar either accept it or not because they are going to do what they will regardless.
Wow. Gypsies are awesome.
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2009, 11:27:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2009, 09:54:03 PM
She's always finding new ways to annoy me. And her fans are an entire new layer of annoyance. But generally yeah, I prefer to ignore her.
Am I: an annoyance? :cry:
Yes. But not too bad.
Quote from: PRC on August 27, 2009, 08:25:42 PM
I saw that exact scenario with Gypsies in Rome. The older ones begging while the kids run around picking pockets. One kid got caught and the guy who had him was holding on hard, not letting him go, and screaming "POLIZZZIIIAAAAA!"
And if you do that you run a pretty decent chance of being seriously beaten by the adult gypos.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 27, 2009, 01:46:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2009, 01:43:45 PM
None of which excuses the violence against Gypsies seen recently.
OK, well, how about the violence BY gypsies recently? Tamas was mentioning a few vigilante groups who were stopping pretty much everyone passing through who weren't gypsies.
What Tamas perhaps forgets to mention is that there is a party in Hungary (that actually got some MPs into the European Parliament) the members of which believe in cleansing Hungary of gypsies, Jews and homosexuals.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 27, 2009, 11:27:42 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on August 27, 2009, 11:17:11 PM
Forbidding kids from being educated is one of the most bizarre and crazy cultural traits I've ever heard of. For this reason I'm not even sure if it is true. I mean, a lot of Chinese parents will consider the education needs of their children the absolute number one priority, even more important than putting a roof above their head. Even the worst parents who don't give a shit will just leave the system to handle their kids, and will not actively seek to take their kids away from schools.
It's actually pretty well documented. I would guess at paranoid xenophobia myself, and I can't imagine that World War II helped matters either; gypsies were probably close enough to the epicenter to see propaganda in action, especially as it pertained to their being one of the groups that was being slaughtered when caught.
In Poland, the government has opened a number of schools with Romani language being used in classes and Romani being taught alongside Polish, and gypsy kids are apparently flocking to them.
As for the rest of Europe, well: children of poverty-ridden ethnic minority that has no good grasp of majority language shun schools run exclusively in that language? Gee, color me surprised.
The fact is, as far as Eastern Europe goes, I'd much rather take the gypsies over the resurgent nazis, thank you very much. You guys really have no idea about the extents of European racism and racial hatred, especially in the former Soviety Bloc. I am often called racist on this forum, but my views are pretty much extreme of extreme liberalism when it comes to the local politics.
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 01:55:07 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 27, 2009, 01:46:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2009, 01:43:45 PM
None of which excuses the violence against Gypsies seen recently.
OK, well, how about the violence BY gypsies recently? Tamas was mentioning a few vigilante groups who were stopping pretty much everyone passing through who weren't gypsies.
What Tamas perhaps forgets to mention is that there is a party in Hungary (that actually got some MPs into the European Parliament) the members of which believe in cleansing Hungary of gypsies, Jews and homosexuals.
No what he refers to is my hungarian politics thread where I told that a bunch of serial killers (who just got caught btw) kept shooting gypsies in the back during the night after setting their houses on fire. In response to that, gypsies at some villages formed armed "patrols" and it took them less than a day to create a couple of serious incidents because they basically wanted to lynch anyone they did not like (for example: a family with kids in a SUV)
In Hungary, the whole situation is near a breaking point. Because while those armed gypo patrols start to roam, the nazi party Marty mentions is about to "re-form" the local police units which existed during the mid-wars era (called "csendőrség"), at least in name, to "protect order" It is only a matter of time before two of these groups meet, and the remainder of the government's authority withers away.
Yes, the nazis are doing a lot to escalate this, but this is not only the issue of nazis going berserk on colored people, but rather the end result of having an ever-growing cultural-societal problem for 5 decades and keep ignoring it and letting the individuals (both whites and gypsies) trying to deal with it on their own. I imagine it is the same in other east euro countries as well.
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 02:02:29 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 27, 2009, 11:27:42 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on August 27, 2009, 11:17:11 PM
Forbidding kids from being educated is one of the most bizarre and crazy cultural traits I've ever heard of. For this reason I'm not even sure if it is true. I mean, a lot of Chinese parents will consider the education needs of their children the absolute number one priority, even more important than putting a roof above their head. Even the worst parents who don't give a shit will just leave the system to handle their kids, and will not actively seek to take their kids away from schools.
It's actually pretty well documented. I would guess at paranoid xenophobia myself, and I can't imagine that World War II helped matters either; gypsies were probably close enough to the epicenter to see propaganda in action, especially as it pertained to their being one of the groups that was being slaughtered when caught.
In Poland, the government has opened a number of schools with Romani language being used in classes and Romani being taught alongside Polish, and gypsy kids are apparently flocking to them.
As for the rest of Europe, well: children of poverty-ridden ethnic minority that has no good grasp of majority language shun schools run exclusively in that language? Gee, color me surprised.
The fact is, as far as Eastern Europe goes, I'd much rather take the gypsies over the resurgent nazis, thank you very much. You guys really have no idea about the extents of European racism and racial hatred, especially in the former Soviety Bloc. I am often called racist on this forum, but my views are pretty much extreme of extreme liberalism when it comes to the local politics.
A few remarks: I am glad you would take gypsies over nazis, most gypsies would also rather take you, you have more shiny stuff than the average nazi ;)
Gypsy language: I dont know about Poland but the government's recent decision to have the two major gypsy language present in the country being accepted in town councils (meaning you can ask to have your matter handled in those languages), failed right after start because by statistics, most who claim themselves to be of gypsy ethnicity do not speak any of the native languages, or speak it worse than hungarian.
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 02:04:17 AM
No what he refers to is my hungarian politics thread where I told that a bunch of serial killers (who just got caught btw) kept shooting gypsies in the back during the night after setting their houses on fire. In response to that, gypsies at some villages formed armed "patrols" and it took them less than a day to create a couple of serious incidents because they basically wanted to lynch anyone they did not like (for example: a family with kids in a SUV)
In Hungary, the whole situation is near a breaking point. Because while those armed gypo patrols start to roam, the nazi party Marty mentions is about to "re-form" the local police units which existed during the mid-wars era (called "csendőrség"), at least in name, to "protect order" It is only a matter of time before two of these groups meet, and the remainder of the government's authority withers away.
Yes, the nazis are doing a lot to escalate this, but this is not only the issue of nazis going berserk on colored people, but rather the end result of having an ever-growing cultural-societal problem for 5 decades and keep ignoring it and letting the individuals (both whites and gypsies) trying to deal with it on their own. I imagine it is the same in other east euro countries as well.
I love how you equate ethnic violence against the Roma with an excessive, but still defensive, response from them, in a perceived (and from your post, apparently justified) belief that the state authority is unable to protect them from these attacks.
So first individual neonazis murder whole families of Romas to provoke them into some sort of action, and when they do, form paramilitary neonazi groups to ward against the "gypo threat" (btw, kudos for using a racist slur so consistently - at least it doesn't leave any doubts as to what you really think about the whole situation).
And no, Poland has virtually no problem with gypsies (at least not any more than with any other poverty-stricken group), and we have one of the largest populations of the Roma in Eastern Europe.
Anyway, Romania and Bulgaria are two nasty countries that shouldn't have been let into the EU until they get their shit together. As much as Poland, Czech Republic or Hungary are backward and undeveloped, they are positively first world countries compared to these two.
Although, as far as I am concerned (and if I wasn't Polish), I'd be against the entry of Poland, Hungary and the Baltics too.
What about the Germans?
Quote from: Jaron on August 28, 2009, 02:19:49 AM
What about the Germans?
Germany is one of the founding members of the EU. :P
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 02:10:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 02:04:17 AM
No what he refers to is my hungarian politics thread where I told that a bunch of serial killers (who just got caught btw) kept shooting gypsies in the back during the night after setting their houses on fire. In response to that, gypsies at some villages formed armed "patrols" and it took them less than a day to create a couple of serious incidents because they basically wanted to lynch anyone they did not like (for example: a family with kids in a SUV)
In Hungary, the whole situation is near a breaking point. Because while those armed gypo patrols start to roam, the nazi party Marty mentions is about to "re-form" the local police units which existed during the mid-wars era (called "csendőrség"), at least in name, to "protect order" It is only a matter of time before two of these groups meet, and the remainder of the government's authority withers away.
Yes, the nazis are doing a lot to escalate this, but this is not only the issue of nazis going berserk on colored people, but rather the end result of having an ever-growing cultural-societal problem for 5 decades and keep ignoring it and letting the individuals (both whites and gypsies) trying to deal with it on their own. I imagine it is the same in other east euro countries as well.
I love how you equate ethnic violence against the Roma with an excessive, but still defensive, response from them, in a perceived (and from your post, apparently justified) belief that the state authority is unable to protect them from these attacks.
So first individual neonazis murder whole families of Romas to provoke them into some sort of action, and when they do, form paramilitary neonazi groups to ward against the "gypo threat" (btw, kudos for using a racist slur so consistently - at least it doesn't leave any doubts as to what you really think about the whole situation).
And no, Poland has virtually no problem with gypsies (at least not any more than with any other poverty-stricken group), and we have one of the largest populations of the Roma in Eastern Europe.
My take is that first I would ask a Polack who is not living in seclusion in the richest and most urban parts of the country, before deciding you have no Roma problem.
And your attitude is precisely what led to the current situation, when there is no way out. Yes, how we should not expect the gypsies to rally when they feel threatened. But how could we ask the whites to not feel threatened when people get beaten to death if they slightly injure a gypsy kid who ran in front of their car? Or do not understand that simple folk feel more secure by nazi groups marching through their streets, after years of being harassed by gypsy burglars who ransack their fields and regularly steal their tools and valuables, and if they do fight back it is them who are getting in front of a judge?
The hungarian intelligentsia's answer has been exactly like yours: "omg if you say a negative thing about the Roma you are a racist pig worthy of dying a violent death" No wonder the plebs abandoned them and went for the nazis. A decision which will once again ruin our country, but it was inaction by the sane which paved the way for the insane.
I think one of Obama's speeches about religion fits here very nicely: by the liberal center and the left's refusal to discuss the issue (for him, religion, in case cultural clash between nomadic gypsies and settled people), the only ones talking about it and offering "solutions" are the crazy and the lunatic.
I'm as liberal as they come (and surprised Marti hasn't latched onto the homophobia thing - have you ever read 'Greg's Homophobia Newsletter' Marti, it's a short story by David Sedaris I think you'd enjoy) but everyone I know who has had personal experience of journalism really dislikes them. So I think there may be some genuine problems at the heart of it. Though I don't know what they are and it's not an excuse for violence.
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 28, 2009, 03:40:42 AM
I'm as liberal as they come (and surprised Marti hasn't latched onto the homophobia thing - have you ever read 'Greg's Homophobia Newsletter' Marti, it's a short story by David Sedaris I think you'd enjoy) but everyone I know who has had personal experience of journalism really dislikes them. So I think there may be some genuine problems at the heart of it. Though I don't know what they are and it's not an excuse for violence.
I don't know. Most journalists are scum, but Brazen for example was tolerable. :P
Anyway, I treat anti-gypsy violence and prejudice in the same way I treat Russian attempts to reconquer Ukraine or Georgia. In terms of personal likes and dislikes, I couldn't give the rat's arse over their fate. But both are usually a prelude to nastier things hitting much closer home, as far as I am concerned.
In short, I don't want to be the one having to say at some point in future "When they came for the gypsies, I didn't say anything because I wasn't a gypsy."
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 03:34:12 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 02:10:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 02:04:17 AM
No what he refers to is my hungarian politics thread where I told that a bunch of serial killers (who just got caught btw) kept shooting gypsies in the back during the night after setting their houses on fire. In response to that, gypsies at some villages formed armed "patrols" and it took them less than a day to create a couple of serious incidents because they basically wanted to lynch anyone they did not like (for example: a family with kids in a SUV)
In Hungary, the whole situation is near a breaking point. Because while those armed gypo patrols start to roam, the nazi party Marty mentions is about to "re-form" the local police units which existed during the mid-wars era (called "csendőrség"), at least in name, to "protect order" It is only a matter of time before two of these groups meet, and the remainder of the government's authority withers away.
Yes, the nazis are doing a lot to escalate this, but this is not only the issue of nazis going berserk on colored people, but rather the end result of having an ever-growing cultural-societal problem for 5 decades and keep ignoring it and letting the individuals (both whites and gypsies) trying to deal with it on their own. I imagine it is the same in other east euro countries as well.
I love how you equate ethnic violence against the Roma with an excessive, but still defensive, response from them, in a perceived (and from your post, apparently justified) belief that the state authority is unable to protect them from these attacks.
So first individual neonazis murder whole families of Romas to provoke them into some sort of action, and when they do, form paramilitary neonazi groups to ward against the "gypo threat" (btw, kudos for using a racist slur so consistently - at least it doesn't leave any doubts as to what you really think about the whole situation).
And no, Poland has virtually no problem with gypsies (at least not any more than with any other poverty-stricken group), and we have one of the largest populations of the Roma in Eastern Europe.
My take is that first I would ask a Polack who is not living in seclusion in the richest and most urban parts of the country, before deciding you have no Roma problem.
And your attitude is precisely what led to the current situation, when there is no way out. Yes, how we should not expect the gypsies to rally when they feel threatened. But how could we ask the whites to not feel threatened when people get beaten to death if they slightly injure a gypsy kid who ran in front of their car? Or do not understand that simple folk feel more secure by nazi groups marching through their streets, after years of being harassed by gypsy burglars who ransack their fields and regularly steal their tools and valuables, and if they do fight back it is them who are getting in front of a judge?
The hungarian intelligentsia's answer has been exactly like yours: "omg if you say a negative thing about the Roma you are a racist pig worthy of dying a violent death" No wonder the plebs abandoned them and went for the nazis. A decision which will once again ruin our country, but it was inaction by the sane which paved the way for the insane.
So are you saying that "serial killers" murdering gypsy families and setting their homes on fire was an understandable reaction to harassment by gypsies?
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 03:36:39 AM
I think one of Obama's speeches about religion fits here very nicely: by the liberal center and the left's refusal to discuss the issue (for him, religion, in case cultural clash between nomadic gypsies and settled people), the only ones talking about it and offering "solutions" are the crazy and the lunatic.
Well, solutions are being offered and these include incentives at education and "mainstream-ization" (like the dual language schools in Poland) without using means of oppression and insisting on full assimilation. They seem to be working, too.
It's funny how exactly the same methods of assimilation you are advocation for the gypsies would probably piss you off if they were applied by, say, Romanians, to the Hungarian minority in their country.
*sigh*
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 27, 2009, 10:00:59 PM
I think youtube must have been reading this thread because this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2) was in my recommended list. :lol:
Is that a joke or serious?
Quote from: Tyr on August 28, 2009, 04:26:05 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 27, 2009, 10:00:59 PM
I think youtube must have been reading this thread because this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2) was in my recommended list. :lol:
Is that a joke or serious?
Hell if I know.
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 02:02:29 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 27, 2009, 11:27:42 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on August 27, 2009, 11:17:11 PM
Forbidding kids from being educated is one of the most bizarre and crazy cultural traits I've ever heard of. For this reason I'm not even sure if it is true. I mean, a lot of Chinese parents will consider the education needs of their children the absolute number one priority, even more important than putting a roof above their head. Even the worst parents who don't give a shit will just leave the system to handle their kids, and will not actively seek to take their kids away from schools.
It's actually pretty well documented. I would guess at paranoid xenophobia myself, and I can't imagine that World War II helped matters either; gypsies were probably close enough to the epicenter to see propaganda in action, especially as it pertained to their being one of the groups that was being slaughtered when caught.
In Poland, the government has opened a number of schools with Romani language being used in classes and Romani being taught alongside Polish, and gypsy kids are apparently flocking to them.
As for the rest of Europe, well: children of poverty-ridden ethnic minority that has no good grasp of majority language shun schools run exclusively in that language? Gee, color me surprised.
The fact is, as far as Eastern Europe goes, I'd much rather take the gypsies over the resurgent nazis, thank you very much. You guys really have no idea about the extents of European racism and racial hatred, especially in the former Soviety Bloc. I am often called racist on this forum, but my views are pretty much extreme of extreme liberalism when it comes to the local politics.
The only problem with your theory is that it in Spain Gypsies do not speak Romani and yet still fail to get educated.
Quote from: DGuller on August 27, 2009, 11:08:52 PM
Education will estrange them from their community is my guess.
Yea, pretty much. I grew up in such a society, although in my case it was as much religious as social.
I feel the need to post here the greates achievment of gypsy culture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFL2SXGdrVA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFL2SXGdrVA)
Quote from: Martinus on August 27, 2009, 04:34:05 PM
Not surprised to see you side with racists.
The non-integrating Gypsies are a problem though. Having a culture around that discourages education and all the other things our societies think are good is a bit of a difficult culture clash.
Gypsy cultural heritage does enrich Eastern Euroland alot though. Heck what exactly has Romania produced culturally that wasn't Gypsy in origin?
Having said that anytime you go to a country and say 'you guys are racists!' the response is probably going to be somewhat negative (even though what Madonna said was actually fairly harmless, the plight of the Gypsies is a sad thing even if somewhat self-inflicted).
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 08:00:11 AM
I feel the need to post here the greates achievment of gypsy culture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFL2SXGdrVA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFL2SXGdrVA)
That would be this guy. :contract:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEzsPGHsi90 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEzsPGHsi90)
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 02:02:29 AM
In Poland, the government has opened a number of schools with Romani language being used in classes and Romani being taught alongside Polish, and gypsy kids are apparently flocking to them.
As for the rest of Europe, well: children of poverty-ridden ethnic minority that has no good grasp of majority language shun schools run exclusively in that language? Gee, color me surprised.
Well if that is all it takes good on Poland. I think teaching people in a language that is basically useless and nobody speaks is pretty pointless...but then they still teach Dutch schools in Dutch and everybody learns English over there eventually.
I think it is a bit more complicated and has to do with the the psychological difficulty of having to give up some aspects of a culture that has been around for centuries that is causing the Gypsies problems in addition to discrimination and language issues.
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 08:00:11 AM
I feel the need to post here the greates achievment of gypsy culture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFL2SXGdrVA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFL2SXGdrVA)
Borat* made a video.
*yes I know Sasha baron Cohen is Borat.
Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2009, 08:12:09 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 02:02:29 AM
In Poland, the government has opened a number of schools with Romani language being used in classes and Romani being taught alongside Polish, and gypsy kids are apparently flocking to them.
As for the rest of Europe, well: children of poverty-ridden ethnic minority that has no good grasp of majority language shun schools run exclusively in that language? Gee, color me surprised.
Well if that is all it takes good on Poland. I think teaching people in a language that is basically useless and nobody speaks is pretty pointless...but then they still teach Dutch schools in Dutch and everybody learns English over there eventually.
I think it is a bit more complicated and has to do with the the psychological difficulty of having to give up some aspects of a culture that has been around for centuries that is causing the Gypsies problems in addition to discrimination and language issues.
There are no language issues.
Actually, it's a bit silly to compare the situation of gypsies in Poland and other Eastern European countries as Poland has only about 15-60k of them (according to Wikipedia) while in the others there are hundred of thousands, with general population much lower. So yeah, Poland doesn't have "gypsy problem", but that's because it hardly have Gypsies.
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 08:31:47 AM
There are no language issues.
Then why was Marty making a big deal about teaching them in Romani?
Because he's got no clue. As I said in my reply to him, Spanish Gypsies speak Spanish, not Romani, and they still take their kids out of school.
Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2009, 08:53:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 08:31:47 AM
There are no language issues.
Then why was Marty making a big deal about teaching them in Romani?
He has no clue
I'M SHOCKED.
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 04:19:25 AM
*sigh*
You lost when you started talking to him as if communication were possible.
Quote from: Jaron on August 27, 2009, 09:54:44 PM
It doesn't matter if it is used on one or a million. Dershits line of attack is always along racial lines.
I go with what works. Anyway, don't you use the n-word all the time? What's that make you?
QuoteThat and his open distaste for anything not white sounds like a racist to me.
Where are you getting this,
cabrón?
Quote from: derspiess on August 28, 2009, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: Jaron on August 27, 2009, 09:54:44 PM
It doesn't matter if it is used on one or a million. Dershits line of attack is always along racial lines.
I go with what works. Anyway, don't you use the n-word all the time? What's that make you?
QuoteThat and his open distaste for anything not white sounds like a racist to me.
Where are you getting this, cabrón?
It's been the long standing way of brow beating those who disagree, especially if there's any involvement of a non-white group. Just call someone racist, especially when lacking logic or argument to counter the other guy, or otherwise to deflect the argument and put the other side on the defensive. Except that it's starting to backfire badly, on Languish and especially now in real life.
Quote from: Maximus on August 28, 2009, 07:23:30 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 27, 2009, 11:08:52 PM
Education will estrange them from their community is my guess.
Yea, pretty much. I grew up in such a society, although in my case it was as much religious as social.
At least your folks allow education up to a certain age, and from what I've seen, they are able to do quite a lot with what education they've had.
This is all on top of the fact that Mennonite communities pose little if any problems (and in fact, are a huge net positive) to the surrounding society.
Quote from: derspiess on August 28, 2009, 10:18:30 AM
At least your folks allow education up to a certain age, and from what I've seen, they are able to do quite a lot with what education they've had.
This is all on top of the fact that Mennonite communities pose little of any problems (and in fact, are a huge net positive) to the surrounding society.
That is all true and works out well for those children who wish to stay in those communities.
Quote from: derspiess on August 28, 2009, 10:18:30 AM
At least your folks allow education up to a certain age, and from what I've seen, they are able to do quite a lot with what education they've had.
This is all on top of the fact that Mennonite communities pose little of any problems (and in fact, are a huge net positive) to the surrounding society.
I dunno I'd watch the "pose little of any problems". I've seen from files some messed-up stuff going on in Mennonite communities...
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2009, 10:57:12 AM
I dunno I'd watch the "pose little of any problems". I've seen from files some messed-up stuff going on in Mennonite communities...
Meant to say "little if any". Mennonites are people & people can do bad things, but my point was their abbreviated education does not create problems for those outside their communities.
It's also kind of nice that they don't have theft/swindling as a central component of their culture...
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 01:55:07 AM
What Tamas perhaps forgets to mention is that there is a party in Hungary (that actually got some MPs into the European Parliament) the members of which believe in cleansing Hungary of gypsies, Jews and homosexuals.
Are they joining that new European party that the Tories are in? that would be just perfect.
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 01:19:27 AM
Quote from: PRC on August 27, 2009, 08:25:42 PM
I saw that exact scenario with Gypsies in Rome. The older ones begging while the kids run around picking pockets. One kid got caught and the guy who had him was holding on hard, not letting him go, and screaming "POLIZZZIIIAAAAA!"
And if you do that you run a pretty decent chance of being seriously beaten by the adult gypos.
In Italy the gypsies probably understand already that by doing that they'll get one of their camps burned again.
Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2009, 08:12:09 AM
Well if that is all it takes good on Poland. I think teaching people in a language that is basically useless and nobody speaks is pretty pointless...but then they still teach Dutch schools in Dutch and everybody learns English over there eventually.
not really a good comparison now is it
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 27, 2009, 10:00:59 PM
I think youtube must have been reading this thread because this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2) was in my recommended list. :lol:
Racist!!!!111
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 28, 2009, 12:50:20 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 01:55:07 AM
What Tamas perhaps forgets to mention is that there is a party in Hungary (that actually got some MPs into the European Parliament) the members of which believe in cleansing Hungary of gypsies, Jews and homosexuals.
Are they joining that new European party that the Tories are in? that would be just perfect.
No, they are too extreme even for the Polish allies of tories. :p
Quote from: Berkut on August 28, 2009, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 04:19:25 AM
*sigh*
You lost when you started talking to him as if communication were possible.
Yeah go ahead and believe a guy who refers to an ethnic group as "gypos" (which is the equivalent of "nigger") as an unbiased source of information on the "problems" with the said ethnic group.
Quote from: Siege on August 28, 2009, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 27, 2009, 10:00:59 PM
I think youtube must have been reading this thread because this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2) was in my recommended list. :lol:
Racist!!!!111
I'm surprised by your reaction considering the same paramilitary groups that want to get rid Eastern Europe of gypsies also believe that Hungary, Romania etc. should be cleansed of "Jewish influence" (in Hungary, they blame the collapse of the financial system recently on the "International Jewry").
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 07:04:44 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 28, 2009, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2009, 04:19:25 AM
*sigh*
You lost when you started talking to him as if communication were possible.
Yeah go ahead and believe a guy who refers to an ethnic group as "gypos" (which is the equivalent of "nigger") as an unbiased source of information on the "problems" with the said ethnic group.
A) Is it the equivalent of "nigger" in Hungary and Poland, or just in Poland?
B) I don't think Berkut was siding with Tamas; rather, I think that he was saying you were wasting your time arguing with him--he's not worth the effort. But I could be wrong, so maybe Berkut will clarify the point.
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 07:04:44 PM
Yeah go ahead and believe a guy who refers to an ethnic group as "gypos" (which is the equivalent of "nigger") as an unbiased source of information on the "problems" with the said ethnic group.
This raises the question of whether we can consider you an unbiased source on the rhetorical equivalence of gypo.
Quote from: Martinus on August 28, 2009, 07:06:03 PM
Quote from: Siege on August 28, 2009, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 27, 2009, 10:00:59 PM
I think youtube must have been reading this thread because this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2) was in my recommended list. :lol:
Racist!!!!111
I'm surprised by your reaction considering the same paramilitary groups that want to get rid Eastern Europe of gypsies also believe that Hungary, Romania etc. should be cleansed of "Jewish influence" (in Hungary, they blame the collapse of the financial system recently on the "International Jewry").
Did you even click on that link?
Is a racist song about forcing immigrants to speak english.
I speak with my wife in whatever language I want to. Well, we ussually speak in english but that's beside the point.
The point is, it is racist. And that bitch singin bring up her grandfather in WW2, probably a pog washing tanks.
I should show her my service record with the US Army, while speaking to her in hebrew.
Why is always the people that have apported the least to the greatness of America the ones that are unhappy with the new immigrants?
I am sorry anglet is not my first language, bitch!
Quote from: Siege on August 28, 2009, 09:10:14 PM
Did you even click on that link?
Is a racist song about forcing immigrants to speak english.
Nah.
This is a racist song about forcing immigrants to speak English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx8qXTT6VAA&feature=PlayList&p=74BC4B5A6B1A3756&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3
Quote from: Siege on August 28, 2009, 09:10:14 PM
Did you even click on that link?
Is a racist song about forcing immigrants to speak english.
I speak with my wife in whatever language I want to. Well, we ussually speak in english but that's beside the point.
The point is, it is racist. And that bitch singin bring up her grandfather in WW2, probably a pog washing tanks.
I should show her my service record with the US Army, while speaking to her in hebrew.
Why is always the people that have apported the least to the greatness of America the ones that are unhappy with the new immigrants?
I am sorry anglet is not my first language, bitch!
Doesn't it say near the beginning something about please, speak English. That's rather polite.
Quote from: ulmont on August 28, 2009, 09:16:47 PM
Quote from: Siege on August 28, 2009, 09:10:14 PM
Did you even click on that link?
Is a racist song about forcing immigrants to speak english.
Nah. This is a racist song about forcing immigrants to speak English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx8qXTT6VAA&feature=PlayList&p=74BC4B5A6B1A3756&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx8qXTT6VAA&feature=PlayList&p=74BC4B5A6B1A3756&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3)
Fuck man, you broke my heart.
I used to love SOD back in the day.
I feel so heartbroken, I think I'm going to open the bottle of Mogen Daavid, concord grape, I have for the shabbat.
Shabbat starts in a few.
My wife gonna kill me if i open it before thet shabbat diner.
Ok, another beer then.
SOD? Damn man.
Quote from: Siege on August 28, 2009, 09:10:14 PM
The point is, it is racist.
Not at all. Language isn't a component of race. Yet.
QuoteAnd that bitch singin bring up her grandfather in WW2, probably a pog washing tanks.
I should show her my service record with the US Army, while speaking to her in hebrew.
You should also show her all the classified documents you passed to the Chinese.
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2009, 09:22:13 PM
Quote from: Siege on August 28, 2009, 09:10:14 PM
Did you even click on that link?
Is a racist song about forcing immigrants to speak english.
I speak with my wife in whatever language I want to. Well, we ussually speak in english but that's beside the point.
The point is, it is racist. And that bitch singin bring up her grandfather in WW2, probably a pog washing tanks.
I should show her my service record with the US Army, while speaking to her in hebrew.
Why is always the people that have apported the least to the greatness of America the ones that are unhappy with the new immigrants?
I am sorry anglet is not my first language, bitch!
Doesn't it say near the beginning something about please, speak English. That's rather polite.
That's racist. Its not my fucing fault I was born in hell.
Neil, one of these days, I'm gonna get really ANGRY at you.
Quote from: Siege on August 28, 2009, 09:29:42 PM
Neil, one of these days, I'm gonna get really ANGRY at you.
I'm not too worried. You're not hard enough to be a real threat.
Man, I just listened to that song again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0&feature=rec-r2)
I am so pissed of!!!!!11111 :mad:
(I even took the time to post an smillie)
Fucking bitch!!!!!!!1111
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxuEBUXJ2rQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxuEBUXJ2rQ)
Siege is the guy in the pink. :D
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2009, 08:15:48 PM
This raises the question of whether we can consider you an unbiased source on the rhetorical equivalence of gypo.
:contract:
The word "gypo" does not exist in the Hungarian language. The equivalent of "gypsy" can be and is used as a sort of insult of course, but the same circles use "jew" the same way so whatever. PC-obsessed people call them the Roma, so by that standard Martinus is also a racist jerk for calling them gypsies. Which is of course ridicoulous.
And I am quite reluctant to re-start my usual debate with people who obviously have no direct experience in interacting with this particular culture. Especially not if they showcase this by claiming that the core of the issue is gypsies not receiving education in the Romani language, which is so off the mark it's not even funny.
Quote from: Tamas on August 29, 2009, 03:41:03 AM
The word "gypo" does not exist in the Hungarian language. The equivalent of "gypsy" can be and is used as a sort of insult of course, but the same circles use "jew" the same way so whatever. PC-obsessed people call them the Roma, so by that standard Martinus is also a racist jerk for calling them gypsies. Which is of course ridicoulous.
And I am quite reluctant to re-start my usual debate with people who obviously have no direct experience in interacting with this particular culture. Especially not if they showcase this by claiming that the core of the issue is gypsies not receiving education in the Romani language, which is so off the mark it's not even funny.
HOW DARE YOU imply that the problem is not the "majority culture" oppressing the poor roma who are just trying to get along with everyone else. :mad: