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QuoteTinto Talks #1 - February 28th 2024

Hello everyone and welcome to .. yeah, what is this really?

Is this a game called "Tinto Talks?" No.. not really.

First of all Tinto stands for "Paradox Tinto", the studio which we founded in Sitges in 2020, with a few people moving down with me from PDS to Spain. We have now grown to be almost 30 people. Now, that is out of the way, what about the "Talks" part? Well...

A long time ago, we started talking about a game as soon as we started working on it. Back in the long almost forgotten past we used to make games in about 8-9 months. I remember us announcing Vicky2 with just 2 mockup screenshots, and half a page of ideas.

This changed a bit over time, with first the rule of not announcing a game until it passed its alpha milestone, in case it would be canceled... as happened with Runemaster. And then when projects started going from an 18 month development cycle with games like EU4 to many years like our more recent games, the time from announcement to release became much closer to the release of the game.

Why does this matter?

Well, from a development perspective communicating with the players is extremely beneficial, as it provides us with feedback. But if it's so late in the development process that you can not adapt to the feedback, then a development diary is "just" a marketing tool. I think games like Imperator might have looked different if we had involved the community earlier and listened to the feedback.

If we look back at HoI4, this was from the first time we talked about Air Warfare, about 10 years ago, and it has not much in common with the release version..

However, talking about a game for a long long time is not great for building hype either, and to be able to make proper huge announcements is an important part as well.

So what is this then? Well, we call this sub-forum "Tinto Talks". We will be talking about design aspects of the game we are working on. We will not tell you which game it is, nor be able to tell you when it will be announced, nor when it will be released.

We will be talking with you here, almost every week, because we need your input to be able to shape this game into a masterpiece.

Without you, and your input, that will not be possible.

So what about Project Caesar then?

Project Caesar? Yeah.. At PDS, which Tinto is a "child" of, we tend to use roman emperor/leader names for our games. Augustus was Stellaris, Titus was CK3, Sulla was Imperator, Nero was Runemaster, Caligula was V3 etc.. We even named our internal "empty project for clausewitz & jomini", that we base every new game on Marius.

In Q2 2020, I started writing code on a new game, prototyping new systems that I wanted to try out. Adapting the lessons learned from what had worked well, and what had not worked well. Plus, recruiting for a completely new studio in Paradox Tinto, training people on how to make these types of games, while also making some expansions for EU4.

Today though, even though we are a fair bit away from announcing our new game, we want to start talking weekly about the things we have worked on, to get your feedback on it, and adapt some of it to become even better.

However, we'll start with the vision, which is not really something you do change at this stage.

Believable World

You should be able to play the game and feel like you are in a world that makes sense, and feels rich and realistic. While not making the gaming less accessible, features should be believable and plausible, and avoid abstraction unless necessary.

Setting Immersion

Our games thrive on player imagination and "what if" scenarios. We ensure both a high degree of faithfulness to the setting which will give a "special feel" to the game. We will strive to give this game the most in-depth feeling of flavor possible.

Replayability

There should be many ways to play different starts and reasons to replay them. Different mechanics in different parts of the world create a unique experience depending on what you choose to play. With a deep and complex game, there should be so many choices and paths that the player should feel they can always come back to get a new story with the same start.

Yeah, sounds ambitious right?

Which games do YOU think represent these pillars well?

Cheers, and next week, we'll talk about the most important things in the world.. Besides family, beer, friends, and the Great Lord of the Dark... MAPS!

Quote from: Zanza on February 28, 2024, 01:40:43 PMI hope it is EU5.

Quote from: Zanza on March 06, 2024, 12:57:27 PMActually there is transoceanic travel, but it relies on currents and winds. So not 20th century. Must be EU5.

I'll buy it.  :lol:

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2024, 04:50:07 PMI'm not sure what they could do with EU that would make me want to buy a version after all the DLC's I've bought for the current version.

Quote from: Josephus on March 06, 2024, 07:20:11 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2024, 04:50:07 PMI'm not sure what they could do with EU that would make me want to buy a version after all the DLC's I've bought for the current version.

Yeah. I'm if two minds. I still play EU4 and have most of the DLCs. But it IS feeling old. That said EU5 will have to be overwhelming from the start. They've set a very high bar

Quote from: Tamas on March 07, 2024, 03:23:11 AM

Quote from: Josephus on March 06, 2024, 07:20:11 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2024, 04:50:07 PMI'm not sure what they could do with EU that would make me want to buy a version after all the DLC's I've bought for the current version.

Yeah. I'm if two minds. I still play EU4 and have most of the DLCs. But it IS feeling old. That said EU5 will have to be overwhelming from the start. They've set a very high bar

Exactly my feelings.

Ibtemeber EU4 helped my new flatmate realise very fast the level of nerd he moved in with. :D

It came out about two weeks after I moved to England and resulted in me only leaving my bedroom for food for a couple of weeks especially since the room was an en suite.  :lol:

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 07, 2024, 01:22:33 PMBut the world trade system in Vic III does not give me a great deal of hope.

Quote from: Zanza on March 13, 2024, 11:37:12 AMI think you can safely rename this thread to EU5 @syt.


(https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/D4RGBO3N1xr8MhsfaTGT5DNNERZhnjijvnx4KgvFi0c2ZFBuMEvrfiht3yyayH6EloTJWJNKEh1VSCH_LsaJWUASqg1j0thITZivoIM3jtOzKM-IGlJFubDx6UZP-iMTRXmnCWAVsm5uKdmQD5F77i8)

It will have pops:

(https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/TX1paNgsYnH4SO0ZWP2NOrbtNa8O20QO9w-Ps-VwjSN8uhMZca-pxt0P2kND5gOnejQfklB6AQpb_C3XH2cB9hF_6sd6GSxbsgygmOmvnUbPCfgWS_BvIq7fPQzBYgy0mYwAccRxR-vFvYfL5jptBMs)

Quote from: Tamas on March 13, 2024, 01:34:39 PMActually I am not very happy about pops. Victoria 3 is crumbling under their weight, and that level of politics is less important in the EU era.

Quote from: Syt on March 14, 2024, 07:27:14 AMMaybe a game to cover 500 BCE to 2000 CE? :P

Quote from: garbon on March 21, 2024, 03:25:34 AMI'm not sure what to make of that level of detail on the map.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 21, 2024, 03:15:10 AMIt looks like they will go for an earlier start, c.1340. Which is fine, but we can expect little interesting play in the 17th and 18th centuries as a consequence.

I hope that one day they will announce a 1648-1815 or 1688-1815 game so that intersting period is covered properly.

Quote from: Zanza on March 21, 2024, 02:16:07 PMAn earlier start date means we never see some of the defining features of the current EU4 time period. It would be even more alt history.

Quote from: Zanza on March 21, 2024, 02:14:30 PM

Quote from: garbon on March 21, 2024, 03:25:34 AMI'm not sure what to make of that level of detail on the map.

The only mechanic that I can think of that might use that level of detail is army movement and combat/occupation.

But due to the whack-a-mole style of combat and the necessity to carpet siege this would be very tedious if they keep the general behaviour of armies from EU4.

Quote from: Zanza on March 21, 2024, 02:14:30 PM

Quote from: garbon on March 21, 2024, 03:25:34 AMI'm not sure what to make of that level of detail on the map.

The only mechanic that I can think of that might use that level of detail is army movement and combat/occupation.

But due to the whack-a-mole style of combat and the necessity to carpet siege this would be very tedious if they keep the general behaviour of armies from EU4.

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 23, 2024, 07:46:06 PMStart date is 1337: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/why-did-we-pick-1337-for-the-start-year.1642258/

Which is fine, if the end date is mid/late 16th century and they are splitting up the old EU into two games.

Not so fine if the intent is to cover 17th and 18th centuries.

Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2024, 04:56:27 AMJohan also said on the forums that the goal is that the game is at release as rich in features and content as EU4 is with all its expansions.  :hmm:

Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2024, 04:56:27 AMJohan also said on the forums that the goal is that the game is at release as rich in features and content as EU4 is with all its expansions.  :hmm:

Quote from: Zanza on March 24, 2024, 05:02:35 AM

Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2024, 04:56:27 AMJohan also said on the forums that the goal is that the game is at release as rich in features and content as EU4 is with all its expansions.  :hmm:

Most of the recent expansions were just mission trees, events and graphics assets. Maybe they have a way to migrate that content to the new game with little effort?

Quote from: garbon on March 24, 2024, 05:03:16 AM

Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2024, 04:56:27 AMJohan also said on the forums that the goal is that the game is at release as rich in features and content as EU4 is with all its expansions.  :hmm:

I do get vibes of Magna Mundi when I read through that forum and his posts. All like it will solve all the problems that have been baked into the series over time.

Quote from: garbon on March 24, 2024, 05:03:16 AM

Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2024, 04:56:27 AMJohan also said on the forums that the goal is that the game is at release as rich in features and content as EU4 is with all its expansions.  :hmm:

I do get vibes of Magna Mundi when I read through that forum and his posts. All like it will solve all the problems that have been baked into the series over time.

Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2024, 04:56:27 AMJohan also said on the forums that the goal is that the game is at release as rich in features and content as EU4 is with all its expansions.  :hmm:

Quote from: Josephus on March 24, 2024, 05:22:57 AMI guess there's no "pick your own start date" either.

Quote from: Josquius on March 24, 2024, 08:14:23 AM

Quote from: Josephus on March 24, 2024, 05:22:57 AMI guess there's no "pick your own start date" either.

Why?
Surely that shouldn't be too hard to code? Its basically a save with the world as it actually was at points in history no?

Quote from: Zanza on March 24, 2024, 10:15:26 AMGoing by the peak of the last 24h, EU4 has 23k players, CK3 has 28k, Stellaris 21k, HoI4 has 65k, Victoria 3 has 11k players. Paradox considers the first four evergreens with continuous revenue potential. I am a bit surprised that Stellaris isn't higher to be honest.

Quote from: Josephus on March 25, 2024, 05:53:59 AM

Quote from: Zanza on March 24, 2024, 10:15:26 AMGoing by the peak of the last 24h, EU4 has 23k players, CK3 has 28k, Stellaris 21k, HoI4 has 65k, Victoria 3 has 11k players. Paradox considers the first four evergreens with continuous revenue potential. I am a bit surprised that Stellaris isn't higher to be honest.

where do you find this info?

What's surprising with EU4 is that we are , despite the DLCs, talking about a 10 year old game. That' s quite impressive.

Quote from: Josquius on March 24, 2024, 08:14:23 AM

Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2024, 04:56:27 AMJohan also said on the forums that the goal is that the game is at release as rich in features and content as EU4 is with all its expansions.  :hmm:

Are they stepping away from the continuous income flow DLC overload model?

Quote from: Josephus on March 24, 2024, 05:22:57 AMI guess there's no "pick your own start date" either.

Why?
Surely that shouldn't be too hard to code? Its basically a save with the world as it actually was at points in history no?

Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2024, 12:58:31 PMI hope it won't be just another map painter and attempt to focus more on the simulation aspect, but I doubt that's the audience these days. :P

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 25, 2024, 01:00:55 PM

Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2024, 12:58:31 PMI hope it won't be just another map painter and attempt to focus more on the simulation aspect, but I doubt that's the audience these days. :P

Based on what Johan has been saying, that is what they are attempting to do.   The fact that they have 2700+ locations in the game indicates they are moving away from the paint all provinces gameplay.

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 25, 2024, 01:00:55 PM

Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2024, 12:58:31 PMI hope it won't be just another map painter and attempt to focus more on the simulation aspect, but I doubt that's the audience these days. :P

Based on what Johan has been saying, that is what they are attempting to do.   

Quote from: Valmy on March 26, 2024, 10:11:17 PMThe problem is CK2 was following CK and was much better than CK right at launch. CK3 on the other hand...I still prefer CK2.

QuoteFor example, building a light ship in the Age of Renaissance requires Naval Supplies, Lumber, Weaponry, Copper, Tin, and Metalworks, while moving your capital requires Paper, Books, Stone, Lumber, Marble, and gold.

QuoteBuildings are rather important in Project Caesar. There are hundreds of different types of buildings, some can only be built in rural locations, and some require a town or city. Some can only be built in ports, and some can only be built in other countries. Some you can only build when there is no owner of a location. Lots of buildings are unique to cultures, regions, religions, or even to specific tags.

Some buildings can only have 1 level, some have a fixed cap, and some have a cap that scales with the population or development, and so on.

Buildings can also be categorized into three different categories: buildings that can produce goods, buildings that only give effects, and buildings that can only be built by the estates. Those pure estates usually have a drawback to them as well, and it's not easy to remove them.

QuoteSo what about producing buildings then? This is where the truly fun parts of the economy start. Project Caesar has a large amount of different goods. We currently have about 70 different ones that have different needs, some are needed for the military, some are needed solely by pops, some are needed for buildings, and so on.

QuoteAs an example, a Castle does not produce any goods, but it still requires Stone, Metalworks, Weaponry, and Tar to function, and if it does not get those goods, then the Castle will not function properly. The effectiveness of a building is based on the lowest available percentage of goods present, and it will only purchase and use required materials in that percentage required. If the market cannot supply enough resources, then it will not work.

Quote from: Syt on April 25, 2024, 01:01:57 AMFrom the latest post. Maybe "a bit" too granular for a game supposed to span 500 years? :P

(https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/h_Uu_FZ1_xAAsG_36S0nz-4DEdR_gFQ7Jzd5wKCIMFcUW5YfQvEhN58LNAedWFUIXUb8OBl3_5U-tJD8w01KS4lHWkVdV1lQXn83jFDnEw-Cjc8nx16PRkhro6XrR79VqshTn8rvqc7zdcOc26VwRws)

Quote from: crazy canuck on April 29, 2024, 01:17:01 PMIt's a good point.  Will the model of how things are produced within buildings change with technology?  That would be cool.

QuoteLet's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
The output from RGO's
The output from buildings
Base Production
Burgher Trades

So what is 'Base Production'? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO's, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the "Trade Monopolies" estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can "Deny Market Access" to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country's locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we'll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!

Quote from: Syt on May 02, 2024, 03:36:11 AM(https://i.postimg.cc/Vcgd/image.png)
 :lmfao:

Quote from: Josquius on May 02, 2024, 05:27:54 AMI'm a bit more optimistic. I think if it is heading down the trainwreck path it will have a tonne of stuff cut and be less than it promised but OK.

Quote from: Syt on May 02, 2024, 03:36:11 AM(https://i.postimg.cc/Vcgd/image.png)
 :lmfao:

Seems sensible to me, why else mention it there?
It could just be something as little as you get a bonus for trade in shared/similar language centres or ups the odds of provinces being included in them.

Quote from: Valmy on May 16, 2024, 07:53:50 PMFinally a Map of the HRE that makes sense.

Quote from: Josquius on May 17, 2024, 10:49:15 AMIt would be nice to see a game that properly handles tall play.
Both of a Venice style dominant city state variety and more of a Swiss style, able to maintain their independence quite comfortably and prove a real thorn in the side of anything locally, but not a threat too far beyond their borders.

Quote from: Zanza on May 20, 2024, 11:24:51 AMWere Castille, England or Hungary really so much more centralised than France, Italy or Germany?

Quote from: Zanza on May 20, 2024, 11:24:51 AMWere Castille, England or Hungary really so much more centralised than France, Italy or Germany?

Quote from: Valmy on May 20, 2024, 10:01:08 PMKind of interesting to see Wales as separate from England in 1337. What is the story behind that?

Quote from: crazy canuck on May 20, 2024, 11:56:33 PM

Quote from: Valmy on May 20, 2024, 10:01:08 PMKind of interesting to see Wales as separate from England in 1337. What is the story behind that?

Technically it was separate until the the Tudors.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on May 21, 2024, 12:37:58 AMThe Act of Union between England and Wales was passed in 1536 https://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/themes/periods/tudors_04.shtml

Which, in paradox terms, makes it a vassal of England in the 14th century.

England was a highly centralised state by 14th century standards. It had one system of weights and measures for the whole country, law was enforced and courts held by the justices of the peace and was the King's law, when parliament imposed taxes they were for the entire country. This is an important reason why the 4m English of the time were able to war succesfully with the 20m French.

Quote from: Valmy on May 21, 2024, 01:15:11 AMWas there a separate system of law and a parliament for Wales prior to that point?

Quote from: Valmy on May 21, 2024, 01:15:11 AM

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on May 21, 2024, 12:37:58 AMThe Act of Union between England and Wales was passed in 1536 https://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/themes/periods/tudors_04.shtml

Which, in paradox terms, makes it a vassal of England in the 14th century.

England was a highly centralised state by 14th century standards. It had one system of weights and measures for the whole country, law was enforced and courts held by the justices of the peace and was the King's law, when parliament imposed taxes they were for the entire country. This is an important reason why the 4m English of the time were able to war succesfully with the 20m French.

Was there a separate system of law and a parliament for Wales prior to that point?

Quote from: Josquius on May 21, 2024, 02:55:25 AMLooking at the map I'm most curious on what the deal is in Scotland.

Quote from: Valmy on May 21, 2024, 01:15:11 AMWas there a separate system of law and a parliament for Wales prior to that point?

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on May 21, 2024, 04:09:06 AMSecond war of Scottish independence :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_War_of_Scottish_Independence

It appears that 14th century Wales was run by a ragbag of Marcher Lords, other lords and some native leaders. Each of them administered their own courts of law and the link with England appears to be fealty to the crown. Also worth bearing in mind that the population of Wales back then was only 200k so arguably the whole conquest was a bit of a waste of resources.

Quote from: HVC on May 21, 2024, 11:02:33 AMMy favourite Wales tale is Edward promising to name a prince "born in Wales, who did not speak a word of English" to rule wales, and then naming his infant son :lol:

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on May 21, 2024, 12:37:58 AMEngland was a highly centralised state by 14th century standards. It had one system of weights and measures for the whole country, law was enforced and courts held by the justices of the peace and was the King's law, when parliament imposed taxes they were for the entire country. This is an important reason why the 4m English of the time were able to war succesfully with the 20m French.

Quote from: Norgy on July 26, 2024, 04:22:01 PMToo thick around the ankles.

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 26, 2024, 10:18:56 PMI've been listening to too much Bach.  The first thing I think of when looking at the map is all the potential open kapellmeister positions.

Quote from: Zanza on July 26, 2024, 03:26:26 PMNot convinced that having 300+ countries in the HRE is good for gameplay.

Quote from: Zanza on July 27, 2024, 02:44:20 AMMy history knowledge is insufficient, but were HRE princes really that much more independent than other feudal vassals of the time?

Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2024, 03:52:57 AMHow does this accomplish that? We also all no it is that brand so ruse seems at best paper thin.

Quote from: Tamas on October 04, 2024, 05:54:26 AM

Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2024, 03:52:57 AMHow does this accomplish that? We also all no it is that brand so ruse seems at best paper thin.

It can still be called something else: Europa Imperiatoris or somesuch

Quote from: The Brain on October 04, 2024, 07:06:28 AMMaybe moving away from a brand that can be seen as Eurocentric? And Crusader Kings 4 might not be called Crusader Kings 4.

Quote from: The Brain on October 04, 2024, 07:06:28 AMMaybe moving away from a brand that can be seen as Eurocentric? And Crusader Kings 4 might not be called Crusader Kings 4.

Quote from: Josquius on October 10, 2024, 09:29:24 AMWe've all seen the recent paradox interview I suppose about how much of a cluster fuck things have been lately?

Quote from: The Brain on October 04, 2024, 07:06:28 AMMaybe moving away from a brand that can be seen as Eurocentric? And Crusader Kings 4 might not be called Crusader Kings 4.

Surprised they haven't done this already TBH. Its been clear for a while that CK has attracted a rather unsavoury element to its fanbase.

Quote from: Syt on January 07, 2025, 12:45:28 PMI'm curious about the locations/provinces distinction. I'm guessing it will be similar to the baronies/counties system in CK3, combined with the "split state" mechanics of Vic 3. So generally, the locations will be part of a province and will always be part of the bundle, but at game start, some of the provinces may be split to reflect historical realities - over time the provinces will become consolidated.

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 07, 2025, 12:41:12 PMMississippian culture not considered settled, it seems.

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 07, 2025, 12:41:12 PMMississippian culture not considered settled, it seems.

Quote from: Zanza on January 07, 2025, 01:41:14 PM

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 07, 2025, 12:41:12 PMMississippian culture not considered settled, it seems.

Wasn't Cahokia in terminal decline by 1337?

Quote from: Zanza on May 02, 2025, 08:32:02 AMEuropa Universalis V will be officially announced on May 8th.

Looking forward to it, many of the weaknesses of EU4 seem to be addressed.

Quote from: Tamas on May 03, 2025, 01:38:50 AMThanks for the link, started reading the army one, read that basic tick won't be days but hours. This is mental. With all the other detail in the game there is no way this is going to work.

It is either going to be a broken mess or a new masterpiece, I don't think you can end up at anything else with this level of ambition.

Quote from: Tamas on May 03, 2025, 01:38:50 AMThanks for the link, started reading the army one, read that basic tick won't be days but hours. This is mental. With all the other detail in the game there is no way this is going to work.

It is either going to be a broken mess or a new masterpiece, I don't think you can end up at anything else with this level of ambition

I think you are right and I really like that Johan continues to be ambitious.

Quote from: Tamas on May 03, 2025, 01:38:50 AMThanks for the link, started reading the army one, read that basic tick won't be days but hours. This is mental. With all the other detail in the game there is no way this is going to work.

It is either going to be a broken mess or a new masterpiece, I don't think you can end up at anything else with this level of ambition.

Quote from: Caliga on May 09, 2025, 09:53:28 AMGiven how different it is from EUIV, it'll be buggy as hell upon release and I won't even consider touching it for 6 months or so. :hmm:

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 09, 2025, 05:12:15 AMMinsky is on a roll this week   :cool:

Quote from: Caliga on May 09, 2025, 09:53:28 AMGiven how different it is from EUIV, it'll be buggy as hell upon release and I won't even consider touching it for 6 months or so. :hmm:

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 09, 2025, 05:12:15 AMMinsky is on a roll this week   :cool:

Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2025, 10:11:35 AMThey certainly seem to take a kitchen sink approach with this a one. Laith said in his video that the game seems more geared towards simulation and less painting the map, though he has concerns about balance and whether all the systems will tie into each other meaningfully. He also commented that the game start seems slow. And he thinks that the game starts close to the Black Death to "teach" players that setbacks in the game are fine and you can recover from them (i.e., losing a war or having all your peasants drafted dying in battle doesn't mean having to start over).

Quote from: Valmy on May 09, 2025, 11:28:41 AM

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 09, 2025, 05:12:15 AMMinsky is on a roll this week   :cool:

I remember back in the ancient times when we had "Post of the Month", Minsky would win just about every time.

Quote from: Valmy on May 09, 2025, 05:36:19 PMI enjoyed losing in CK2, which was good because I almost always eventually did. At least if I started at the early starting dates.

Quote from: Josquius on May 09, 2025, 03:31:24 PM

Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2025, 10:11:35 AMThey certainly seem to take a kitchen sink approach with this a one. Laith said in his video that the game seems more geared towards simulation and less painting the map, though he has concerns about balance and whether all the systems will tie into each other meaningfully. He also commented that the game start seems slow. And he thinks that the game starts close to the Black Death to "teach" players that setbacks in the game are fine and you can recover from them (i.e., losing a war or having all your peasants drafted dying in battle doesn't mean having to start over).

Sounds promising. Must say though I've never encountered a game which truly succeeds in making losing fun.

Quote from: Solmyr on May 10, 2025, 02:58:18 AM

Quote from: Josquius on May 09, 2025, 03:31:24 PM

Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2025, 10:11:35 AMThey certainly seem to take a kitchen sink approach with this a one. Laith said in his video that the game seems more geared towards simulation and less painting the map, though he has concerns about balance and whether all the systems will tie into each other meaningfully. He also commented that the game start seems slow. And he thinks that the game starts close to the Black Death to "teach" players that setbacks in the game are fine and you can recover from them (i.e., losing a war or having all your peasants drafted dying in battle doesn't mean having to start over).

Sounds promising. Must say though I've never encountered a game which truly succeeds in making losing fun.

Dwarf Fortress. :contract:

Quote from: Syt on May 10, 2025, 03:02:52 PMLaith going over the game mechanics (so far).

Quote from: Tamas on May 11, 2025, 02:10:24 PM

Quote from: Syt on May 10, 2025, 03:02:52 PMLaith going over the game mechanics (so far).

Drastically more income from trade than taxes for the state seems very silly.

Quote from: Tamas on May 11, 2025, 02:10:24 PMDrastically more income from trade than taxes for the state seems very silly.

Quote from: Syt on June 19, 2025, 11:22:51 AMIt's out! :o

Quote from: Syt on June 19, 2025, 11:22:51 AMIt's out! :o

The soundtrack, that is. :P

Quote from: Syt on August 05, 2025, 02:11:29 AMI feel it's one of those things where you'll never find a reasonable compromise. Though maybe just creating a single "Balkan" ethnicity would solve that. :P

Quote from: Syt on August 19, 2025, 02:18:09 PMRelease date: Nov 5th.

Remember, remember ... :P

Quote from: Zanza on August 19, 2025, 04:49:26 PM

Quote from: Syt on August 19, 2025, 02:18:09 PMRelease date: Nov 5th.

Remember, remember ... :P

4th

Quote from: Zanza on August 19, 2025, 04:49:26 PM

Quote from: Syt on August 19, 2025, 02:18:09 PMRelease date: Nov 5th.

Remember, remember ... :P

4th

QuoteAlmost five hundred years of history unfold before you in Europa Universalis V, the latest version of one of the greatest strategy games of all time. Guide the destiny of any of hundreds of nations and societies in a simulated living world of unparalleled depth and complexity.

Europa Universalis V builds on the franchise's core concept of developing and advancing nations from around a deeply researched historical world, adding more detailed diplomacy, a more sophisticated economic model, a revised military system and greater logistical depth that will challenge even the most experienced strategy gamers.

RULE a land of your choosing. Hundreds of nations are yours to command, as you guide the destiny of millions of people through the late Middle Ages up to the Age of Revolution - from the mighty Yuán Dynasty to the city-states of Italy, from the warring clans of feudal Japan to the Pope himself.

DECIDE which course your nation will take. Historical events and situations await as you chart a unique path through a new history written by your decisions. Experience The Hundred Years' War, the Protestant Reformation, the collapse of old dynasties and rise of new ones.

EXPLORE alternate histories as you shape the world to meet your ambitions. What if England succeeded in pressing its continental claims? What if China pursued an overseas empire? What if Mongol supremacy in Russia persisted? Every action opens the possibility for an original history.

IMPOSE domestic peace in a divided realm.  Keep your nation's factions in line as  Estates jockey for power in your nation. Offer privileges to one group of citizens while you limit the power of another, all in the service of keeping your population under control.

NEGOTIATE your way through an uneasy peace. Use diplomacy to entrench your dynasty across realms or build an invincible alliance. But remember that nations have no permanent friends - only permanent interests; so use your ambassadors carefully. Exact favors from friends, send threats to enemies, and keep an eye on everyone in-between.

CONQUER new lands to expand your borders. Wage War on those who impede your ambition in a completely new Europa Universalis military system. Start in the age of levies and mercenaries and, through social development, evolve to vast standing armies and impenetrable fortresses. Choose skilled commanders to oversee both land and naval forces.

BUILD a strong economic infrastructure in the most detailed trade system yet seen in a Europa Universalis game. Dozens of goods and crops are available for production and trade on a map filled with new riches to discover. Invest in feeding a growing population or trade your surplus to less bountiful societies.

MOLD your society to meet the historical moment. Choose your societal values, with new options opening as the ages move on. Centralize power at court or share it with your nobles. Pursue a tolerant policy for all faiths or condemn heretics. Emphasize massed armies or an elite cadre of quality soldiers.

GOVERN a nation composed of many cultures and faiths in a detailed simulation of the past. For the first time in Europa Universalis, populations are represented on the map in detail, so provinces may be divided by religion or culture. Your decisions will determine how these populations will fare under your leadership.

PREVAIL in the greatest strategic challenges of the past. Test your expertise in grand strategic planning on a worldscape larger and more detailed than seen in any previous Paradox Interactive game. Challenge yourself to outdo the most famous rulers of the past, eclipsing their grand accomplishments and building your own vision of a richly detailed globe.

Quote from: Syt on August 19, 2025, 11:59:18 PMSystem requirements:

(https://i.imgur.com/hQ9aBii.png)

Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2025, 02:06:58 AMHim being positive on this is a big one for me. He has similar preferences for what he likes in his Paradox games, so him saying this is moving away from the board game feel and more to a simulated living world is making me a lot more optimistic. He's also saying that the underlying systems are solid and robust, though balance (and UI) in his opinion require tweaking and bug fixing, which is another big plus for me.

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 30, 2025, 04:36:31 AM

Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2025, 02:06:58 AMHim being positive on this is a big one for me. He has similar preferences for what he likes in his Paradox games, so him saying this is moving away from the board game feel and more to a simulated living world is making me a lot more optimistic. He's also saying that the underlying systems are solid and robust, though balance (and UI) in his opinion require tweaking and bug fixing, which is another big plus for me.

dammit, at this rate I'll end up with a preorder... don't wanna   :shutup:

Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2025, 02:06:58 AMHim being positive on this is a big one for me. He has similar preferences for what he likes in his Paradox games, so him saying this is moving away from the board game feel and more to a simulated living world is making me a lot more optimistic. He's also saying that the underlying systems are solid and robust, though balance (and UI) in his opinion require tweaking and bug fixing, which is another big plus for me.

Quote from: Josquius on September 29, 2025, 02:07:01 PMNorthumbrian as a seperate culture to English :w00t:

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on September 29, 2025, 02:51:09 PMIt's Paradox's contribution to helping wean Europe off Russian gas for heating this winter.

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on September 29, 2025, 02:51:09 PMIt's Paradox's contribution to helping wean Europe off Russian gas for heating this winter.

Quote from: Norgy on October 01, 2025, 04:05:00 AMYes. Yes, we are.

Quote from: Norgy on October 03, 2025, 02:04:33 AM1337 is the starting date, and that means that for most countries catastrophe will strike within 8-10 years with the Black Death. So managing that will probably be the first hurdle.

I've been reading some dev diaries and watching a few vids, and there is little doubt that Paradox wants this to be a magnum opus of grand strategy.

I like that the further from the capital, the less control you have over a province. I am, however, scared by how many layers that the game will bring. I, for one, will sit confusedly and wonder what happened in the first 20 hours.

The player now needs the right resources available to build buildings (an inheritance from Vic3, I suppose), and with the new antagonism system, it is certainly not sure that you can manage to trade them.

Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2025, 03:14:18 AM

Quote from: Norgy on October 03, 2025, 02:04:33 AM1337 is the starting date, and that means that for most countries catastrophe will strike within 8-10 years with the Black Death. So managing that will probably be the first hurdle.

I've been reading some dev diaries and watching a few vids, and there is little doubt that Paradox wants this to be a magnum opus of grand strategy.

I like that the further from the capital, the less control you have over a province. I am, however, scared by how many layers that the game will bring. I, for one, will sit confusedly and wonder what happened in the first 20 hours.

The player now needs the right resources available to build buildings (an inheritance from Vic3, I suppose), and with the new antagonism system, it is certainly not sure that you can manage to trade them.

Yeah, it's either going to be a big flop or the next evolution in historical strategy games, like EU1 was.

I don't mind "vibe" playing games with barely understanding what's going on but there's a substantial subset of strategy game players who need to have a complete understanding of every variable at game start or they get freaked out. Those might have a problem with this game.

Quote from: Josquius on October 03, 2025, 06:27:48 AMI've heard about non-territory holding entities like samurai clans, banks (:Joos ) and the Hanseatic League being playable.
Really hope they can make this fun- I've heard in CK3 its not really- as that is seriously what the genre needs. A step away from paint the map means all.  :

Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2025, 10:11:23 AMI feel like by starting in 1337, when important early modern states like the Ottomans and Muscovy and Austria are in a precarious early state we are basically just guaranteeing the game we play will be some bizarro fantasy land even more than your typical EU4 game. I do hope there is an option for a 1492 start just so we can see something dealing with the actual great powers of that era.

Quote from: Josephus on October 03, 2025, 10:32:55 AM

Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2025, 10:11:23 AMI feel like by starting in 1337, when important early modern states like the Ottomans and Muscovy and Austria are in a precarious early state we are basically just guaranteeing the game we play will be some bizarro fantasy land even more than your typical EU4 game. I do hope there is an option for a 1492 start just so we can see something dealing with the actual great powers of that era.

Yeah, I agree....I get that this, as the fanbois would say, is not a history book; but you do like to have the "feel" of history, particularly for a game that plays over 400 years. I get that the EU4 way of having any date open to play is too cumbersome; but I'd like to have several options. In ALL EUs that I've played I always preferred the 1492 start game.

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on October 03, 2025, 10:54:13 AMThey clearly chose 1337 to demonstrate the dev team is entirely composed of l33t hax0rz.  :ph34r:

Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2025, 10:11:23 AMI feel like by starting in 1337, when important early modern states like the Ottomans and Muscovy and Austria are in a precarious early state we are basically just guaranteeing the game we play will be some bizarro fantasy land even more than your typical EU4 game. I do hope there is an option for a 1492 start just so we can see something dealing with the actual great powers of that era.

Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2025, 11:21:02 AM

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on October 03, 2025, 10:54:13 AMThey clearly chose 1337 to demonstrate the dev team is entirely composed of l33t hax0rz.  :ph34r:

 :lmfao:

Only 2000s kids will get this -_-

Quote from: Josephus on October 04, 2025, 10:19:42 AM

Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2025, 11:21:02 AM

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on October 03, 2025, 10:54:13 AMThey clearly chose 1337 to demonstrate the dev team is entirely composed of l33t hax0rz.  :ph34r:

 :lmfao:

Only 2000s kids will get this -_-

Yes. Explain to us old folk

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 07, 2025, 09:35:49 AMI have to admit, I have never finished an EU game

Quote from: Valmy on October 07, 2025, 11:00:43 AM

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 07, 2025, 09:35:49 AMI have to admit, I have never finished an EU game

I used to all the time in EU1 and EU2 but now it is just ridiculous how long it takes to get through a few years. That was my biggest complaint about EU3, the game goes too damn slow. I have thousands of hours of CK2 and I only played to the end date once...when I started in 1337.

And I was not alone either. AARs regularly ran to the end of the game back in the EU1 and EU2 era.

Quote from: Sophie Scholl on October 07, 2025, 12:15:40 PMI don't think I have since EU2 either. Weird. I usually find the end game just... less interesting. Usually everything is blobbed up, ahistorical, and only kept vaguely in check by me playing time cop and keeping things even in that marginally viable level by taking out the worst blobbers.

Quote from: Tamas on October 07, 2025, 02:29:06 PMI liked our EU3 MP games.

Quote from: Josephus on October 08, 2025, 12:18:56 PMI'm going to buy this game, no doubt about it. But I think after 25 years of Paradox gaming, this will be the defining one for me. I didn't like CK3, don't like Vicky 3 and haven't enjoyed HOI in years. There are various reasons for all those games I won't get into but primarily they've removed the fun factor for me.
So if I find I'm not getting into EU5 then obviously they're not making games for me anymore as the were in their early days.

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 08, 2025, 01:11:07 PM

Quote from: Josephus on October 08, 2025, 12:18:56 PMI'm going to buy this game, no doubt about it. But I think after 25 years of Paradox gaming, this will be the defining one for me. I didn't like CK3, don't like Vicky 3 and haven't enjoyed HOI in years. There are various reasons for all those games I won't get into but primarily they've removed the fun factor for me.
So if I find I'm not getting into EU5 then obviously they're not making games for me anymore as the were in their early days.

I thought IV would be the last one for me.  But this seems like the Magnum Opus of the series, so I feel compelled to complete the set. It was EU I that first really got me into playing games on a computer so I think I need to see it through.

Quote from: Josquius on October 09, 2025, 10:53:36 AMMost of the older games weren't on steam for me so I don't know my hour count.... I fear I would have caused an integer overrun if they were.

Quote from: Josephus on October 08, 2025, 03:53:52 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 08, 2025, 01:11:07 PM

Quote from: Josephus on October 08, 2025, 12:18:56 PMI'm going to buy this game, no doubt about it. But I think after 25 years of Paradox gaming, this will be the defining one for me. I didn't like CK3, don't like Vicky 3 and haven't enjoyed HOI in years. There are various reasons for all those games I won't get into but primarily they've removed the fun factor for me.
So if I find I'm not getting into EU5 then obviously they're not making games for me anymore as the were in their early days.

I thought IV would be the last one for me.  But this seems like the Magnum Opus of the series, so I feel compelled to complete the set. It was EU I that first really got me into playing games on a computer so I think I need to see it through.

Yeah, CC, same here. Sometime in early 2001 I walked into an Electronics Boutique (EB) store and saw this game that just screamed out at me...it was called Europa Universalis. The rest is history.

Quote

QuoteHungary getting picked as an economy tutorial feels weird. I mean, it was a rather rich kingdom, don't get me wrong. It's just that the other two picks feel even more fitting, especially in this time period. A dynastic deal about to happen with Poland, dynastic claims *cough* ties to Naples, domineering the Balkans, staking a claim on the Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia, the anti-Habsburg alliance at Visegrad, a little bit later the first Hungarian-Ottoman War. The most well-known major achievements and developments of Hungary at this specific time just ooze politics, with a dash of expansionism.

Something that is not very well known is that, around these years, Hungary was the third richest country in Europe in tax revenues, just behind France and England. And the reign of Charles Robert was probably the apogee of royal power in the kingdom, leaving behind a wealthy country and a healthy treasury to his son and successor, Louis 'the Great'.

In EUV, it's a really cozy country to learn about the economy, as there's plenty of cash in hand to kick off the economic development, in several fronts: RGOs, buildings, roads, etc.

Quote from: Syt on October 14, 2025, 04:18:41 AMLemon Cake's appraisal of the game so far:

Quote from: Syt on October 16, 2025, 03:36:24 AMFor Tamas :P

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-84-15th-of-october-2025-onboarding-systems.1863138/post-30803167

Quote

QuoteHungary getting picked as an economy tutorial feels weird. I mean, it was a rather rich kingdom, don't get me wrong. It's just that the other two picks feel even more fitting, especially in this time period. A dynastic deal about to happen with Poland, dynastic claims *cough* ties to Naples, domineering the Balkans, staking a claim on the Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia, the anti-Habsburg alliance at Visegrad, a little bit later the first Hungarian-Ottoman War. The most well-known major achievements and developments of Hungary at this specific time just ooze politics, with a dash of expansionism.

Something that is not very well known is that, around these years, Hungary was the third richest country in Europe in tax revenues, just behind France and England. And the reign of Charles Robert was probably the apogee of royal power in the kingdom, leaving behind a wealthy country and a healthy treasury to his son and successor, Louis 'the Great'.

In EUV, it's a really cozy country to learn about the economy, as there's plenty of cash in hand to kick off the economic development, in several fronts: RGOs, buildings, roads, etc.

Quote from: Josephus on October 25, 2025, 09:17:12 AMThere's an interview on pcgamer.com with old Languish alumni Johan. It's mostly about the history of the EU series

Quote from: Syt on October 30, 2025, 04:07:47 AMThere was a live stream yesterday (didn't watch): https://youtu.be/fahVi7d3NR8

Quote from: Sophie Scholl on October 30, 2025, 02:53:22 AMWaiting to get a new pc to be able to handle it. I'm looking forward to it, though!

Quote from: Tamas on October 30, 2025, 04:11:07 AM

Quote from: Syt on October 30, 2025, 04:07:47 AMThere was a live stream yesterday (didn't watch): https://youtu.be/fahVi7d3NR8

Is that old grandpa Johan? God damn we have grown old. I was only a starry-eyed 20 years old when EU1 came out.

Quote from: Norgy on October 31, 2025, 11:06:10 AMThe spec demands are scary.

I have a processor and card that runs RDR2, KCD2, Dishonored 2 and most games in 4k with no issue, but EUV apparently demands a lot of CPU power.

Oh, well.

Quote from: Tamas on October 31, 2025, 11:16:00 AMI never bother to look at the 3D map in any of the Paradox games

Quote from: Josephus on October 29, 2025, 10:18:54 PMSo we buying this on Day One or waiting? What's the Languish consensus?

Quote

Quote@mossneck4030
21 hours ago
Spiff doesn't post for a month
Me "weird"
Spiff "So EU5 is a thing"
Me "well that explains it"

Quote@thespiffingbrit
21 hours ago
Unironically yes. This + CK3 + Anno have basically destroyed my social life... I already have over 300 hours in EU5 and 100 in anno 117... I love video games

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 02, 2025, 05:08:23 AMThere is a genuine historical question there, how contingent is the formation of Russia? Is it inevitable or a freak result or sonething in between? Those "Russian" principalities spent several centuries in a balkanised state after all  :hmm:

I think for gameplay I would like it to form 1/2 or maybe 2/3 of the time. As regards how inevitable it was irl I'm really not at all sure.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 02, 2025, 05:21:44 AMOne can imagine an alternative reality where "It is 1836 and Germany and Italy have still not formed!!!!"

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 02, 2025, 05:08:23 AMThere is a genuine historical question there, how contingent is the formation of Russia? Is it inevitable or a freak result or sonething in between? Those "Russian" principalities spent several centuries in a balkanised state after all  :hmm:

I think for gameplay I would like it to form 1/2 or maybe 2/3 of the time. As regards how inevitable it was irl I'm really not at all sure.

Quote from: garbon on November 02, 2025, 07:26:19 AMIt feels like we have never resolved how to approximate some historical happenings without it being on the rails. One challenge has often been that even to apporcimate the conditions that lead to improbable historical results seem to really need changing rulesets for the game as time goes on.

I wonder if EUV will advance anything anything in that department.

Quote from: Tamas on November 01, 2025, 12:24:38 PMFine!

I have preordered.  :mad:

Quote from: Syt on November 02, 2025, 11:28:23 AM

Quote from: garbon on November 02, 2025, 07:26:19 AMIt feels like we have never resolved how to approximate some historical happenings without it being on the rails. One challenge has often been that even to apporcimate the conditions that lead to improbable historical results seem to really need changing rulesets for the game as time goes on.

I wonder if EUV will advance anything anything in that department.

I guess it comes down to how much you think an event or outcome was very likely to occur, even if a few factors that led to it fall away, or if it was a huge fluke. Formation of Russia, Burgundian Inheritance, England turning Anglican, etc.

QuoteThis is an early access timelapse of EU5! It runs from 1337 (the start of EUV) to 1830! Let me know what you thought of the late middle ages into the early modern period with Europa Universalis 5 in this timelapse! Also what do you think of the EU5 ages, EU5 Map and the EU5 AI in this video! Btw the game will release to the public on 11/4/25 so there certainly will be some changes by then!

FYI this was made on the release patch (November 1st) for EU5 and took me over 30 hours, compared to just under 13 hours for the October 16th patch 🫥. Also my laptop is a MSI Raider GE78HX 13VG-020US laptop (I9 13950 HX and 4070 Mobile) with 32 gigs of DDR5 Ram 🫡.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 02, 2025, 07:21:20 AMMy point is that, in an alternate reality, a gamer could find it unbelievable that Italy and Germany had not formed by 1836.

Now, if we take China, we actually have a number of observations. China collapses every now and then but then reforms into a single state. So the developers can code for that. But Russia, Italy and Germany (or the Iberian peninsula for that matter)...who knows?

Quote from: Tamas on November 03, 2025, 08:28:26 AMAs a sidenote, I am so tired of attention-grabbing Youtube thumbnails. As I started watching EU5 videos these started popping up and goddamit, it's terribly annoying.

Quote from: Norgy on November 03, 2025, 08:34:09 AMSorry for lobbing one more at you.  :hug:

Quote from: Syt on November 03, 2025, 08:50:50 AMI only partly blame YouTubers. They are all trying to get the algorithm to put their videos in front of you, and if clickbait titles (seem to) work, it's what they'll do, even if they'd prefer not to.

A channel I'm subscribed to did two videos on FM26. One with everything he likes, one with everything he doesn't like. YouTube only served me the negative one (I had to go to his channel to watch the other), and it had more than twice the views as the positive one had.

Quote from: Tamas on November 03, 2025, 08:48:26 AMWhat makes them worse, I guess, is that I do now usually lack the patience to read text reviews. I can listen to a Youtuber's opinion while, say, working in the garden, or, heck, playing a game. I can't read a text review while doing either of those things. So it's much more efficient time-wise (a resource most, most precious), to listen to one of these thumbnail people. Because many of them are actually decent, it's just that they feel obliged to join the thumbnail race.

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 03, 2025, 10:08:09 AM

Quote from: Tamas on November 03, 2025, 08:48:26 AMWhat makes them worse, I guess, is that I do now usually lack the patience to read text reviews. I can listen to a Youtuber's opinion while, say, working in the garden, or, heck, playing a game. I can't read a text review while doing either of those things. So it's much more efficient time-wise (a resource most, most precious), to listen to one of these thumbnail people. Because many of them are actually decent, it's just that they feel obliged to join the thumbnail race.

Tangentially, this is an interesting perspective.  I've become very annoyed at the move from text-based reviews, tutorials, and game guides to video-based ones.  There are several reasons I prefer text to audio/video, but specifically to your post I can't do what you do.  I can't listen to anything I need to pay attention to while doing something else.  I will inevitably either stop doing the something else in order to pay attention, or I'll miss parts of what is being said.  There are cases where, when I really need to focus on the thing I'm doing, I can't even listen to music with lyrics.

My wife, on the other hand, listens to audiobooks all the time while doing other things.  Maybe I need to give something like that another shot, because I'm missing out on a lot of content that is only available via podcast or YouTube.

Quote from: Valmy on November 03, 2025, 12:45:36 PMI preordered for both myself and my son. He will be counting down the seconds tomorrow.

Quote from: Tamas on November 03, 2025, 08:52:28 AMThat's grim.

Quote from: Zanza on November 03, 2025, 12:41:23 PM175 Euro spent in preordering EU V and Anno 117.  :sleep:

Now I just need to buy a PC that can run them at an acceptable speed as my current machine might be a bit slow.

Quote🔹 The Population Engine: How every "pop" represents real people with needs, jobs, and beliefs.
🔹 Culture & Religion: Managing diverse populations to maintain stability and fuel expansion.
🔹 Language & Geopolitics: How communication and regional ties influence diplomacy and rebellion.
🔹 Disease: Navigating plagues and health crises that can devastate your populace.
🔹 Pop Needs & Jobs: Balancing employment, goods consumption, and social mobility.

Quote from: Syt on November 03, 2025, 01:45:28 PMI admit my Ryzen 7 7800X3D has been a significant upgrade in speed (previously had an Intel chip that was by now 5 years old) for Victoria 3 or CK3 (which I didn't think ran particularly slow previously).

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 02, 2025, 04:06:36 PMAgreed that the 1337 start date never made much sense to me. Europa Universalis the board game and the original computer conversion was about the emergence of large centralizing states and Europe and the impact of overseas exploration and trade.  But starting from 1337 and going a hundred years out, neither of those trends look like they are in play. If you had to bet on the future in Europe during that period, one would not bet on the large monarchical states.  France was dysfunctional and disintegrating and England would shortly follow.  The Spanish monarchies experienced their own serious problems.  The HRE appeared in slow decline to terminal status.  The state models that looked the most promising were strong city states like Venice or city leagues like the Hanse. 

Quote from: Tamas on November 03, 2025, 08:48:26 AM

Quote from: Norgy on November 03, 2025, 08:34:09 AMSorry for lobbing one more at you.  :hug:

There is no way of avoiding them. :hug:

What makes them worse, I guess, is that I do now usually lack the patience to read text reviews. I can listen to a Youtuber's opinion while, say, working in the garden, or, heck, playing a game. I can't read a text review while doing either of those things. So it's much more efficient time-wise (a resource most, most precious), to listen to one of these thumbnail people. Because many of them are actually decent, it's just that they feel obliged to join the thumbnail race.

Quote from: The Brain on November 03, 2025, 04:50:29 PM...Chaka Khan.

Quote from: Solmyr on November 04, 2025, 04:12:40 AMI haven't yet, because I suspect I'm gonna miss the mission trees and may yet play some interesting flavorful countries in EU4.

Quote from: Tamas on November 04, 2025, 04:27:42 AM

Quote from: Solmyr on November 04, 2025, 04:12:40 AMI haven't yet, because I suspect I'm gonna miss the mission trees and may yet play some interesting flavorful countries in EU4.

Mission trees I was sometimes in the mood for but I think they were a mistake, and are lame.

Quote from: Sophie Scholl on November 04, 2025, 07:22:15 AMIt felt like the prerequisites were often a little too random or punishing, too. Especially when they closed off long chains of events.

Quote from: Sophie Scholl on November 04, 2025, 07:22:15 AMIt felt like the prerequisites were often a little too random or punishing, too. Especially when they closed off long chains of events.

Quote from: Josephus on November 04, 2025, 10:52:23 AMBut Mission Trees, at least, forced the AI into some sort of historical path...which I'm worried this game won't.

Quote from: Norgy on November 04, 2025, 02:22:44 PMI am utterly overwhelmed.

 :ph34r:

Quote from: Zanza on November 04, 2025, 03:10:23 PMSame. Tough to get into it mentally after a full day at work.  :sleep:

Quote from: HVC on November 04, 2025, 03:41:05 PMIve been burned too many times, I'll let you guys power through the bugs and balancing :P

Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2025, 06:26:13 AMYeah. No way this is even remotely balanced after the first 100 years or so, how could it be?

Still excited to learn it, though.

One nice aspect of the detail, that Victoria 3 has as well is that with a big country I just... don't have the urge to conquer? Like, Hungary. It's huge and fairly rich but at the start my capital has pretty much no buildings (a fact I only realised watching a youtube video), and my control radiates as if it was a dim little candle. So seems like plenty of opportunity to figure out development within the borders.

Quote from: Razgovory on November 05, 2025, 11:19:23 AMIs there a start date other than 1337?

Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2025, 10:45:25 AMSo how am I supposed to enable mods then without a launcher?

Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2025, 10:45:25 AMSo how am I supposed to enable mods then without a launcher?

Quote from: Norgy on November 05, 2025, 12:22:05 PMWell, if anyone is doing well in this game, please tell me.  :lol:

Quote from: Razgovory on November 05, 2025, 11:19:23 AMIs there a start date other than 1337?

Quote from: Norgy on November 05, 2025, 12:22:05 PMWell, if anyone is doing well in this game, please tell me.  :lol:

Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2025, 12:26:19 PM

Quote from: Norgy on November 05, 2025, 12:22:05 PMWell, if anyone is doing well in this game, please tell me.  :lol:

I kicked some Teutonic ass as Lithuania before realizing that might have been counterproductive. I don't really understand how anything works except for fighting wars. Just remembering where pieces of information exist is a problem.

I hope it makes more sense with time.

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 05, 2025, 12:14:29 PM

Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2025, 10:45:25 AMSo how am I supposed to enable mods then without a launcher?

steam workshop of their own little mod playground?

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 05, 2025, 01:13:04 PM

Quote from: Norgy on November 05, 2025, 12:22:05 PMWell, if anyone is doing well in this game, please tell me.  :lol:

I did very well reading through all the tabs last night.  Oh, you meant playing the game - nope made the mistake of building too many roads at the start and decided to abandon all hope and try again another time.  :D

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 05, 2025, 01:13:04 PM

Quote from: Norgy on November 05, 2025, 12:22:05 PMWell, if anyone is doing well in this game, please tell me.  :lol:

I did very well reading through all the tabs last night.  Oh, you meant playing the game - nope made the mistake of building too many roads at the start and decided to abandon all hope and try again another time.  :D

Quote from: Josephus on November 05, 2025, 03:43:27 PMI been playing as Naples...following the tutorial missions and doing my own stuff...like attacking Sicily.

Some interesting stuff, lots to keep track of. After I conquered a bunch of provinces in Sicily, I couldn't tell if they were cored or not. I can't seem to find the right mapmode, where I can tell like in EUIV which provinces I have claims on, are my cores, etc.

There's tons of stuff here, trying to find what I want can be hard for now.

Quote from: DGuller on November 05, 2025, 04:56:27 PMPlayed the Ottomans for a couple of months before crashing to desktop.  Not the most auspicious of starts.  :hmm:

Quote from: Syt on November 05, 2025, 03:40:34 PMSorry, not going to mess with gameplay mods in the next few weeks while they keep patching this. :P

Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2025, 01:53:58 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 05, 2025, 01:13:04 PM

Quote from: Norgy on November 05, 2025, 12:22:05 PMWell, if anyone is doing well in this game, please tell me.  :lol:

I did very well reading through all the tabs last night.  Oh, you meant playing the game - nope made the mistake of building too many roads at the start and decided to abandon all hope and try again another time.  :D

Do roads have building maintenance cost?

I have restarted as Hungary, trying to improve things this time rather than sitting and scratching my head. Things are going noticeably worse than when I didn't touch anything.  :lol:

Quote from: DGuller on November 05, 2025, 11:31:49 PMHere are some counts for my first day of owning EU5:

Crashes to desktop:  4
Total PC freezes: 1
Crashes while sending crash report after CtD: 1
Refunds requested: 1
Refunds approved: TBD

Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2025, 05:48:15 PM

Quote from: Syt on November 05, 2025, 03:40:34 PMSorry, not going to mess with gameplay mods in the next few weeks while they keep patching this. :P

Yeah it was a mistake.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 06, 2025, 12:51:18 AMI don't seem to understand how to build a strong economy, in fact it seems to get worse with me at the helm  :lol:

Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2025, 12:26:19 PM

Quote from: Norgy on November 05, 2025, 12:22:05 PMWell, if anyone is doing well in this game, please tell me.  :lol:

I kicked some Teutonic ass as Lithuania before realizing that might have been counterproductive. I don't really understand how anything works except for fighting wars. Just remembering where pieces of information exist is a problem.

I hope it makes more sense with time.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 06, 2025, 12:51:18 AMOne CTD in 11 hours of play. I was looking at tooltips when the end of the month and an autosave happened.

I don't seem to understand how to build a strong economy, in fact it seems to get worse with me at the helm  :lol:

It might be that I'm in too much of a hurry, this is a big long game.

Conversely, wars seem to go well for me. This is a reversal of my EU4 experience where I invariably built up a strong economy but messed up the wars.

Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2025, 01:29:54 AM

Quote from: DGuller on November 05, 2025, 11:31:49 PMHere are some counts for my first day of owning EU5:

Crashes to desktop:  4
Total PC freezes: 1
Crashes while sending crash report after CtD: 1
Refunds requested: 1
Refunds approved: TBD

That sucks. What's yor specs? It runs pretty smooth for me except that one CTD on a tooltip.

Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2025, 10:37:34 AMIt annoys me I cannot just get some local noble to marry. Why is it either marry some middle class slob or a royal marriage? If there is no Anne of Cleves, surely I can just marry Catherine Howard right?

Quote from: Josephus on November 05, 2025, 05:50:38 PMLost about 1.3 million people in Naples due to the plague.  :(

So the latest thing I'm confused with is Institutions and Ages.

How do I advance ages? The Second age (Renaissance, I think) has started but I haven't reached it yet. Do I have to embrace the three Insitutions of the first age first? I have two, but the third one, Meritocracy, is nowhere near me and none of my provinces are close to embracing it.

Can I aid it's spread? How?

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 06, 2025, 12:51:18 AMOne CTD in 11 hours of play. I was looking at tooltips when the end of the month and an autosave happened.

I don't seem to understand how to build a strong economy, in fact it seems to get worse with me at the helm  :lol:

It might be that I'm in too much of a hurry, this is a big long game.

Conversely, wars seem to go well for me. This is a reversal of my EU4 experience where I invariably built up a strong economy but messed up the wars.

Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2025, 01:29:54 AM

Quote from: DGuller on November 05, 2025, 11:31:49 PMHere are some counts for my first day of owning EU5:

Crashes to desktop:  4
Total PC freezes: 1
Crashes while sending crash report after CtD: 1
Refunds requested: 1
Refunds approved: TBD

That sucks. What's yor specs? It runs pretty smooth for me except that one CTD on a tooltip.

Quote from: Josquius on November 06, 2025, 03:02:35 AMSounds like trying to do ux on the cheap has bit them in the arse.

Quote from: Solmyr on November 06, 2025, 05:30:01 AMSo now I'm trying again from the beginning. Still need to figure out how to best improve the economy to create a solid base.

Quote from: Valmy on November 06, 2025, 10:27:28 AM

Quote from: Josquius on November 06, 2025, 03:02:35 AMSounds like trying to do ux on the cheap has bit them in the arse.

I think part of the problem is I just haven't played one of these games for awhile. What seems obvious to people with loads of Vic 3 or EU4 experience is very opaque to me.

Quote from: Norgy on November 06, 2025, 12:24:11 PMI would say this opaque at best for everyone. It is a soup of CK3, Vic3 and with a sprinkling of EU4.

Quote from: Norgy on November 06, 2025, 12:24:11 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 06, 2025, 10:27:28 AM

Quote from: Josquius on November 06, 2025, 03:02:35 AMSounds like trying to do ux on the cheap has bit them in the arse.

I think part of the problem is I just haven't played one of these games for awhile. What seems obvious to people with loads of Vic 3 or EU4 experience is very opaque to me.

I would say this opaque at best for everyone. It is a soup of CK3, Vic3 and with a sprinkling of EU4.

Trying the Eastern Roman Empire was a harrowing experience. Much like a Diddy party, it was being effed hard.
I will no longer be welcome in Greece after that.  :lol:

Quote from: Valmy on November 06, 2025, 01:06:18 PMI miss just getting my stability to +3.

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 06, 2025, 12:08:25 PM

Quote from: Solmyr on November 06, 2025, 05:30:01 AMSo now I'm trying again from the beginning. Still need to figure out how to best improve the economy to create a solid base.

I think I have the early economy, at least partly, figured out now.

Concentrate on building within high control areas

Pump up your rgos first to get the food and industrial inputs you need to build your buildings (that will reduce the construction price) and once built to supply the building's production - timber, Lumber, stone, sand, wheat, and clay are good things to think about early on.

Gradually build roads to increase the radius of control

And, importantly, increase your crown power at the expense of the nobles.

Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2025, 11:36:00 PMAfter three failed attempts, I finally got a refund (for Steam wallet credit, but still).  :w00t: That still works better than this game.

Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2025, 12:11:11 AM

Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2025, 11:36:00 PMAfter three failed attempts, I finally got a refund (for Steam wallet credit, but still).  :w00t: That still works better than this game.

Game works fine for me. :hmm:

Except for the baffling interface.

Quote from: Syt on November 07, 2025, 11:02:13 AMAnyone know if there will be a hotfix today? Seems there's a bug where AI keeps dissolving their alliance with you, even though you can immediately enter it again.

Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2025, 12:02:57 PMOk so diplomatic capacity is really important. Go over it and you are seriously boned.

And it doesn't take much man. I have one ally but I struggle to stay under the limit.

Quote from: Valmy on November 06, 2025, 10:51:16 PMSo as Lithuania my high maintenance BFF Poland wants some of my land. Probably fine. I have tons of worthless land. But nowhere can I find what land those kielbasa eating bastards want. I am completely at a loss. It's so frustrating.

Quote from: Tamas on November 07, 2025, 09:42:44 AMHow much space you have on your C drive?

Quote from: DGuller on November 07, 2025, 12:06:06 PM

Quote from: Tamas on November 07, 2025, 09:42:44 AMHow much space you have on your C drive?

I have 300 GB free.

Quote from: Tamas on November 07, 2025, 01:13:49 PM

Quote from: DGuller on November 07, 2025, 12:06:06 PM

Quote from: Tamas on November 07, 2025, 09:42:44 AMHow much space you have on your C drive?

I have 300 GB free.

I give up then.

Quote from: DGuller on November 07, 2025, 01:19:35 PM

Quote from: Tamas on November 07, 2025, 01:13:49 PM

Quote from: DGuller on November 07, 2025, 12:06:06 PM

Quote from: Tamas on November 07, 2025, 09:42:44 AMHow much space you have on your C drive?

I have 300 GB free.

I give up then.

That's what I said.  :)   Not my job to make Paradox games work.  HOI4 and EU5 are the only ones I recall crashing to desktop in the last 10 years or so.

Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2025, 04:53:03 PMIn EU5 you need to promote family values...and by values I mean members.

Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2025, 05:57:02 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2025, 04:53:03 PMIn EU5 you need to promote family values...and by values I mean members.

Why?

Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2025, 06:27:33 PM

Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2025, 05:57:02 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2025, 04:53:03 PMIn EU5 you need to promote family values...and by values I mean members.

Why?

Because you get massive bonuses to the Crown Estate for doing so.

Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2025, 06:27:33 PM

Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2025, 05:57:02 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2025, 04:53:03 PMIn EU5 you need to promote family values...and by values I mean members.

Why?

Because you get massive bonuses to the Crown Estate for doing so.

Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2025, 07:34:22 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2025, 06:27:33 PM

Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2025, 05:57:02 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2025, 04:53:03 PMIn EU5 you need to promote family values...and by values I mean members.

Why?

Because you get massive bonuses to the Crown Estate for doing so.

Good to know. So you're saying make family members generals, cabinet ministers etc, right?

Quote from: Tamas on November 09, 2025, 08:14:56 AMI wonder if I ran into a bug. I started a parliament session and then added as an additional agenda a law change request. This tanked the success chance of parliament, like to 5% and it failed eventually. But still, the implementation of the law has triggered, without the 99 stability hit that you'd get trying to push it through without parliamentary approval. I am pretty sure this isn't how it is supposed to work.

Quote from: DGuller on November 09, 2025, 09:09:30 AM

Quote from: Tamas on November 09, 2025, 08:14:56 AMI wonder if I ran into a bug. I started a parliament session and then added as an additional agenda a law change request. This tanked the success chance of parliament, like to 5% and it failed eventually. But still, the implementation of the law has triggered, without the 99 stability hit that you'd get trying to push it through without parliamentary approval. I am pretty sure this isn't how it is supposed to work.

I think that's how it's supposed to work.  You use up your political capital on changing the law, and not enough was left for the original agenda item.  The additional items are not tied to the original agenda.  That was one of the few things I figured out in my 7 hours of playing.

Quote from: Josephus on November 09, 2025, 10:41:01 AMCan I raise all my levies and move them directly to one spot; like I think you could do in CK?

Quote from: Josephus on November 10, 2025, 01:14:16 PMI've got 24 hours of playtime (in six days---sigh)...I'm at 1430 now. So yeah, game moves slowly.
I really, really, wish they will include a later start in a future DLC.

So I am learning most of the mechanics (though I'm playing with automated trade), although not up on most of the strategy (ie. no idea why I do things,I just do.).

Had no crashes or anything so far, but I do find little niggly things annoying. Stuff that's hard to find for instance, without clicking several maps or tabs; and stuff that isn't properly explained.

For instance:
I am playing as Naples and want to form an alliance with Hungary.
There is a green check mark, my positives are higher than my negatives.
But there is a red X in a box for "our diplomatic status allows the creation of an alliance with Hungary"
I don't know why this is. we are in a royal marriage , not sure if that matters. Also i have plenty Dip capacity

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 12, 2025, 12:52:25 PMMy advice is stop thinking about blobbing like you did in the EU I-IV.  You need to think through your expansion carefully and consider all the cultural, religious, economic, political and tactical reasons for expanding or you will end up with a bunch of useless territory. Or worse, territory you cannot hold. 

Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2025, 12:57:23 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 12, 2025, 12:52:25 PMMy advice is stop thinking about blobbing like you did in the EU I-IV.  You need to think through your expansion carefully and consider all the cultural, religious, economic, political and tactical reasons for expanding or you will end up with a bunch of useless territory. Or worse, territory you cannot hold. 

And man...territory is very useless without control. I think I get zero tax or anything from some of my largest cities. The most they contribute is a few hundred levies for wars.

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 12, 2025, 01:04:23 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2025, 12:57:23 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 12, 2025, 12:52:25 PMMy advice is stop thinking about blobbing like you did in the EU I-IV.  You need to think through your expansion carefully and consider all the cultural, religious, economic, political and tactical reasons for expanding or you will end up with a bunch of useless territory. Or worse, territory you cannot hold. 

And man...territory is very useless without control. I think I get zero tax or anything from some of my largest cities. The most they contribute is a few hundred levies for wars.

Yep, and when you consider the cost of suppressing rebels when those Cabinet positions could be used for far better purposes, and just the cost in manpower of putting down rebellions.  It's just not worth it.

I love how the game has created real constraints on expansion beyond just an arbitrary Bad Boy modifier.  Also, if you have a country with a strong economy and can trade for or produce what you want/need.  There is no need to go expansionist.

Quote from: Sophie Scholl on November 12, 2025, 02:47:43 PMEvent/Mission trees are gone I believe someone said earlier. How are things like... historical events or missions or whatever? Is there some actual flavor you're seeing in the game popping up throughout the years?

Quote from: Sophie Scholl on November 12, 2025, 02:47:43 PMEvent/Mission trees are gone I believe someone said earlier. How are things like... historical events or missions or whatever? Is there some actual flavor you're seeing in the game popping up throughout the years?

Quote from: Zanza on November 12, 2025, 03:41:55 PMI have a new machine now, but EU V does something that causes the GPU or CPU fans to rotate at maximum speed. No other game I tried (Stellaris, Civ 7, Victoria) does this. It's super annoying as my computer is then very loud.  :ultra:

Quote from: Sophie Scholl on November 12, 2025, 09:17:26 PMAnyone mind sharing a picture or the numbers for Poland? I'm curious.  :goodboy:

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 13, 2025, 09:57:41 AMHow many thousand does Sweden have?

Quote from: Tamas on November 13, 2025, 04:06:32 AMPretty cool story here: https://www.reddit.com/r/EU5/s/9TLQrns0nl

As I understand the guy built a super powerful Venice, having his market control Italy and Central Europe, to the degree that the AI Italian small states all turned themselves into cities and specialising into what sold on the market, importing food from the other parts of the Venetian market. Which worked swimmingly until Austria and Bohemia started some huge war devastating food stockpiles to the degree that Venice was paying like 800 a month for food imports at some point, going from being absolute awash in cash to almost going bankrupt.

Pretty cool.

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 13, 2025, 09:57:41 AMHow many thousand does Sweden have?

Quote from: Solmyr on November 13, 2025, 01:33:34 PM

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 13, 2025, 09:57:41 AMHow many thousand does Sweden have?

Only 63 events and 16 country bonuses. Denmark actually has more events. :P

Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2025, 12:57:23 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 12, 2025, 12:52:25 PMMy advice is stop thinking about blobbing like you did in the EU I-IV.  You need to think through your expansion carefully and consider all the cultural, religious, economic, political and tactical reasons for expanding or you will end up with a bunch of useless territory. Or worse, territory you cannot hold. 

And man...territory is very useless without control. I think I get zero tax or anything from some of my largest cities. The most they contribute is a few hundred levies for wars.

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 13, 2025, 10:37:13 AM

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 13, 2025, 09:57:41 AMHow many thousand does Sweden have?

 :D

One other tip is don't forget to build the non revenue producing buildings. Libraries, hospitals, and bridges are important in the early game.

Marketplaces are also important because they generate revenue indirectly by boosting trade but that is not obvious if you are just looking at gold production tab.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 13, 2025, 02:31:29 AM

Quote from: Zanza on November 12, 2025, 03:41:55 PMI have a new machine now, but EU V does something that causes the GPU or CPU fans to rotate at maximum speed. No other game I tried (Stellaris, Civ 7, Victoria) does this. It's super annoying as my computer is then very loud.  :ultra:

I wonder if you have frames per second capped? I have vsync turned on (60fps) to avoid that. In other games i have experienced what you describe and discover ludicrous rates like 217fps are flogging the GPU to death and providing no useful performance for me.

Quote from: Josephus on November 13, 2025, 05:31:20 PMAlso the Kingdom of Hungary is the most dominant country in eastern Europe

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 13, 2025, 08:31:46 PM"The rulers administrative ability now reduces proximity distance"


This is going to make it seem like easy mode compared to the careful production planning we have to do now.

Quote from: Josephus on November 13, 2025, 05:31:20 PMSo I finally hit 1492, the year I would really wish Paradox would bookmark

As it stands for the Original 7 majors:

England is normal, even owning a couple provinces in Calais.
France is also normal
As is Sweden


But Iberia is a bit of a mess, and no Spain


Austria is smaller but acceptable. HRE always tends towards Bohemia though

No Russia

Ottomans is maybe half the size it should be

Also the Kingdom of Hungary is the most dominant country in eastern Europe

Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2025, 04:53:27 PMI noticed the Ottomans were called "The Kingdom of the Ottomans." I found this very confusing. Then I clicked on them. They had converted to Orthodoxy  :wacko:

Not even the most deranged alt-hist freak would talk about what would happen if the Ottomans had embraced Orthodoxy. Paradox has make sure totally deranged things like that would ever happen.

Now maybe Bulgaria just really kicked their ass and forced converted them during a war but I don't think so.

Quote from: Solmyr on November 14, 2025, 05:42:18 AM

Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2025, 04:53:27 PMI noticed the Ottomans were called "The Kingdom of the Ottomans." I found this very confusing. Then I clicked on them. They had converted to Orthodoxy  :wacko:

Not even the most deranged alt-hist freak would talk about what would happen if the Ottomans had embraced Orthodoxy. Paradox has make sure totally deranged things like that would ever happen.

Now maybe Bulgaria just really kicked their ass and forced converted them during a war but I don't think so.

It happens because their pops are majority Orthodox, and currently you can freely convert to whatever majority religion your country has.

Quote from: Josephus on November 13, 2025, 05:31:20 PMSo I finally hit 1492, the year I would really wish Paradox would bookmark

As it stands for the Original 7 majors:

England is normal, even owning a couple provinces in Calais.
France is also normal
As is Sweden


But Iberia is a bit of a mess, and no Spain


Austria is smaller but acceptable. HRE always tends towards Bohemia though

No Russia

Ottomans is maybe half the size it should be

Also the Kingdom of Hungary is the most dominant country in eastern Europe

Quote from: Tamas on November 14, 2025, 11:42:58 AMJust realised that over half of my income is from vassals. Here is Europe and Middle East, kind of a letdown. A big mistake not to have a later start date:

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 01:47:16 PMWhy is it a letdown Tamas - and why do you guys want a later start date?  If you want vanilla 1492, just play IV?

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 01:47:16 PMWhy is it a letdown Tamas - and why do you guys want a later start date?  If you want vanilla 1492, just play IV?

Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2025, 02:01:22 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 01:47:16 PMWhy is it a letdown Tamas - and why do you guys want a later start date?  If you want vanilla 1492, just play IV?

Feels like I explained this already. Are my reasons insufficient or not adequate for some reason?  :hmm:  I mean they might not be good reasons, but I feel like I provided reasons.

Quote from: Tamas on November 14, 2025, 02:57:49 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 01:47:16 PMWhy is it a letdown Tamas - and why do you guys want a later start date?  If you want vanilla 1492, just play IV?

First of all if I didn't prefer EU5 over EU4 I'd be playing EU4. But after 400-ish hours I am kind of bored of it.

And the later start date would be better because the trajectory of history was much more set in 1492 than in 1337. This is also an advantage of the 1300s startdate, obviously, but looking at some people discuss their games in the AI modder's Discord shows me that nearly every game Castille eats Portugal but leaves Aragon alone, the Ottomans never go past the western half of Anatolia and bits of Greece, Austria almost never gains any territory, and no Russia emerges, like, ever.

Hopefully these are just AI issues, if SOME regional and world challengers apart from France emerged I'd probably be content even if they are not called Ottomans, Muscovy and Austria. But none of that happens.

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 03:24:41 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2025, 02:01:22 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 01:47:16 PMWhy is it a letdown Tamas - and why do you guys want a later start date?  If you want vanilla 1492, just play IV?

Feels like I explained this already. Are my reasons insufficient or not adequate for some reason?  :hmm:  I mean they might not be good reasons, but I feel like I provided reasons.

I am not sure you can answer for Tamas - he made post saying that discovering that Hungary had a large number of vassal states which made up the bulk of his income was a letdown.  I am not sure why that is.

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 01:47:16 PMWhy is it a letdown Tamas - and why do you guys want a later start date?  If you want vanilla 1492, just play IV?
]

Yes if I want real history, read a book.

I like everything else about EUV.  But I'd like the option of later start dates. Like you did with all other iterations of this series.

In the other iterations I've always played with the 1492 scenario. It allowed for plenty of alt history, but gave the game a more historical appeal for the era

A game without Russia and Spain, or dominant Ottomans in the Mediterranean just doesn't have the same feel.

Your thoughts may vary

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 03:26:18 PM

Quote from: Tamas on November 14, 2025, 02:57:49 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 01:47:16 PMWhy is it a letdown Tamas - and why do you guys want a later start date?  If you want vanilla 1492, just play IV?

First of all if I didn't prefer EU5 over EU4 I'd be playing EU4. But after 400-ish hours I am kind of bored of it.

And the later start date would be better because the trajectory of history was much more set in 1492 than in 1337. This is also an advantage of the 1300s startdate, obviously, but looking at some people discuss their games in the AI modder's Discord shows me that nearly every game Castille eats Portugal but leaves Aragon alone, the Ottomans never go past the western half of Anatolia and bits of Greece, Austria almost never gains any territory, and no Russia emerges, like, ever.

Hopefully these are just AI issues, if SOME regional and world challengers apart from France emerged I'd probably be content even if they are not called Ottomans, Muscovy and Austria. But none of that happens.

Ok, so the letdown is Hungary is not going to face it's historical enemy in your game?  I can understand that  :)

Quote from: Tamas on November 14, 2025, 04:46:41 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 03:26:18 PM

Quote from: Tamas on November 14, 2025, 02:57:49 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 01:47:16 PMWhy is it a letdown Tamas - and why do you guys want a later start date?  If you want vanilla 1492, just play IV?

First of all if I didn't prefer EU5 over EU4 I'd be playing EU4. But after 400-ish hours I am kind of bored of it.

And the later start date would be better because the trajectory of history was much more set in 1492 than in 1337. This is also an advantage of the 1300s startdate, obviously, but looking at some people discuss their games in the AI modder's Discord shows me that nearly every game Castille eats Portugal but leaves Aragon alone, the Ottomans never go past the western half of Anatolia and bits of Greece, Austria almost never gains any territory, and no Russia emerges, like, ever.

Hopefully these are just AI issues, if SOME regional and world challengers apart from France emerged I'd probably be content even if they are not called Ottomans, Muscovy and Austria. But none of that happens.

Ok, so the letdown is Hungary is not going to face it's historical enemy in your game?  I can understand that  :)

To a degree yes but not just that if the Mamluks or some other dudes took the ottos place and became a big power at least some times, I would be content. But I have not seen a single evidence of that happening.

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 14, 2025, 04:39:06 PMI think EUIV's start in the immediate aftermath of the Battle of Varna makes sense.  1453 would take Byzantium off the board and piss off all the Byzanteens. :P

Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2025, 04:51:53 PMI just want it as an option. The Byzanteens can always play 1337  :lol:

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 14, 2025, 05:05:10 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2025, 04:51:53 PMI just want it as an option. The Byzanteens can always play 1337  :lol:

Unfortunately, multiple start dates don't seem to work now that Paradox has taken the approach of expanding a game for years via DLC and free updates.  I haven't tried the "bookmarks" in EU IV that don't start in 1444, but in HOI 4 for instance the 1939 start has been effectively unplayable for years due to the major changes to the game since release, and the start not having been adjusted to account for them.

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 14, 2025, 05:05:10 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2025, 04:51:53 PMI just want it as an option. The Byzanteens can always play 1337  :lol:

Unfortunately, multiple start dates don't seem to work now that Paradox has taken the approach of expanding a game for years via DLC and free updates.  I haven't tried the "bookmarks" in EU IV that don't start in 1444, but in HOI 4 for instance the 1939 start has been effectively unplayable for years due to the major changes to the game since release, and the start not having been adjusted to account for them.

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 14, 2025, 05:05:10 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2025, 04:51:53 PMI just want it as an option. The Byzanteens can always play 1337  :lol:

Unfortunately, multiple start dates don't seem to work now that Paradox has taken the approach of expanding a game for years via DLC and free updates.  I haven't tried the "bookmarks" in EU IV that don't start in 1444, but in HOI 4 for instance the 1939 start has been effectively unplayable for years due to the major changes to the game since release, and the start not having been adjusted to account for them.

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 14, 2025, 04:39:06 PMI think EUIV's start in the immediate aftermath of the Battle of Varna makes sense.  1453 would take Byzantium off the board and piss off all the Byzanteens. :P

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 14, 2025, 05:26:25 PMCK2 allowed any start date, which was a great feature. . .

Obviously, the problems with Muscovy and the Ottomans are linked to the start date.  From the standpoint of 1337, there is really no reason to believe those two polities would emerge as great powers.  It is just as likely to have been any of a number of other states.  P-dx is caught between a rock and a hard place: they give some special content to boost them, but not enough so that the AI will reliably bring them to full power.  Give too much, and and it trivializes them for the human player.

Quote from: Sheilbh on November 14, 2025, 05:56:06 PM

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 14, 2025, 04:39:06 PMI think EUIV's start in the immediate aftermath of the Battle of Varna makes sense.  1453 would take Byzantium off the board and piss off all the Byzanteens. :P

Good :P

Quote from: Sheilbh on November 14, 2025, 05:56:06 PMGood :P

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2025, 05:49:01 PM

Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 14, 2025, 05:05:10 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2025, 04:51:53 PMI just want it as an option. The Byzanteens can always play 1337  :lol:

Unfortunately, multiple start dates don't seem to work now that Paradox has taken the approach of expanding a game for years via DLC and free updates.  I haven't tried the "bookmarks" in EU IV that don't start in 1444, but in HOI 4 for instance the 1939 start has been effectively unplayable for years due to the major changes to the game since release, and the start not having been adjusted to account for them.

Also the resources needed to make multiple start dates didn't make sense since so few players used the alternative dates.

QuoteIn EU4 starting at a later date famously could also screw up lots of things in the game. Even selecting a later date in the new game and then selecting 1444 again would mess things up.

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 15, 2025, 06:19:22 AMOr it is just needlessly complicated to code to cater to a niche group.  Better to spend those resources elsewhere.

Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2025, 06:28:00 AM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 15, 2025, 06:19:22 AMOr it is just needlessly complicated to code to cater to a niche group.  Better to spend those resources elsewhere.

No it is pretty shitty coding if clicking between start dates causes the game to load improperly.

I totally understood their stance that maintaining many little used start dates (let alone history of everyday in the period) was not worth the resource. But if you do have more than one, game shouldn't break as you browse the different scenarios.

For EUV, I think time will tell if they need to budge or not. Difference with EUV is it picked only start date in a century none of the others covered. Could possibly be there are enough legacy fans who would actually play a 15th century start date.

Quote from: Josquius on November 15, 2025, 11:34:10 AM

Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2025, 06:28:00 AM

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 15, 2025, 06:19:22 AMOr it is just needlessly complicated to code to cater to a niche group.  Better to spend those resources elsewhere.

No it is pretty shitty coding if clicking between start dates causes the game to load improperly.

I totally understood their stance that maintaining many little used start dates (let alone history of everyday in the period) was not worth the resource. But if you do have more than one, game shouldn't break as you browse the different scenarios.

For EUV, I think time will tell if they need to budge or not. Difference with EUV is it picked only start date in a century none of the others covered. Could possibly be there are enough legacy fans who would actually play a 15th century start date.

Pretty sure I do remember a dev report where they looked at the data and said basically nobody chooses any dates but the earliest ones.

QuoteAnother start date, well.. I really don't know.. But I would probably say its an insane amount of man-months.

Quote from: Josquius on November 15, 2025, 11:34:10 AMPretty sure I do remember a dev report where they looked at the data and said basically nobody chooses any dates but the earliest ones.

Quote from: Norgy on November 14, 2025, 05:22:22 PMI do believe there will be DLC for EUV.

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2025, 01:40:48 PM

Quote from: Josquius on November 15, 2025, 11:34:10 AMPretty sure I do remember a dev report where they looked at the data and said basically nobody chooses any dates but the earliest ones.

I haven't played a lot of CK3, but I *never* did the 867 date. Mostly 1066 and one game in 1178.

Quote from: Tamas on November 16, 2025, 04:56:36 PMHaving reached the 1600s .

Quote from: PRC on November 16, 2025, 09:27:24 PMI've played a few hours of Holland and thought I was doing well, weathered the plague, but then descended into repeated bankruptcies during the Hook and Cod Wars.  Which is apropos, but I'm sure I've also misplayed the trade and economic settings. 

What are the "keep this automated" buttons everyone is still using?

Quote from: PRC on November 16, 2025, 09:27:24 PMI've played a few hours of Holland and thought I was doing well, weathered the plague, but then descended into repeated bankruptcies during the Hook and Cod Wars.  Which is apropos, but I'm sure I've also misplayed the trade and economic settings. 

What are the "keep this automated" buttons everyone is still using?

Quote from: Solmyr on November 17, 2025, 02:48:48 AMThis is not EU4, just building stuff won't give you anything. :P You have to be able to tax it, and that means a) building things that produce goods that someone will buy and/or use, and b) having control so you can actually tax your population.

Quote from: Tamas on November 17, 2025, 10:50:56 AMI do feel like the control/access mechanic is a bit overly punitive but I think it works.

Quote from: Tamas on November 17, 2025, 11:59:34 AMMassive patch just landed

Quote from: Valmy on November 17, 2025, 10:39:56 AM

Quote from: Solmyr on November 17, 2025, 02:48:48 AMThis is not EU4, just building stuff won't give you anything. :P You have to be able to tax it, and that means a) building things that produce goods that someone will buy and/or use, and b) having control so you can actually tax your population.

Well yeah I at least know that. I only built stuff that supposedly would make money and was in high control areas. But what "profit" means for those buildings is a little opaque. Profit for who? Me?

Though the problem with Lithuania remains that my largest cities (Polotsk and Riga) are neither Lithuanian nor close to Vilnius.

Though it kind of messes with my mind that 230 km is a vast politically significant distance.  :lol:

Quote from: Tamas on November 17, 2025, 11:59:34 AMMassive patch just landed

Quote from: Valmy on November 17, 2025, 12:03:58 PM

Quote from: Tamas on November 17, 2025, 11:59:34 AMMassive patch just landed

Does this mean I have to start my game over?  :ph34r:

Quote from: Valmy on November 17, 2025, 01:42:08 PMI get several notices every single month people are turning 16 and then I have to go check to see if I care about them. It gets rather exhausting.

And nobody wants to royal marry me since I am a dirty pagan. But I suspect when I play a non-Pagan country that will also be something I have to manage.

QuoteFor a series known for complex but functional interfaces, this is honestly embarrassing.

QuoteWe will deploy a 1.0.6 update as soon as humanely possible.
We will restore trade maintenance changes to previous numbers
Negative Trade values will no longer break the entire system.
Privateers will be able to be destroyed again.
We are working on a new code for the economical base that is far less focused on the trade volume, but that won't be ready for tomorrow.

Quote from: Valmy on November 17, 2025, 01:42:08 PMI get several notices every single month people are turning 16 and then I have to go check to see if I care about them. It gets rather exhausting.

And nobody wants to royal marry me since I am a dirty pagan. But I suspect when I play a non-Pagan country that will also be something I have to manage.

Quote from: Syt on November 18, 2025, 01:26:30 AMFrom a post on their forums about "the released state of the game being unacceptable in 2025":

In a section complaining about the UI:

QuoteFor a series known for complex but functional interfaces, this is honestly embarrassing.

:lol:

Quote from: Syt on November 18, 2025, 01:26:30 AMFrom a post on their forums about "the released state of the game being unacceptable in 2025":

In a section complaining about the UI:

QuoteFor a series known for complex but functional interfaces, this is honestly embarrassing.

:lol:

Quote from: Syt on November 18, 2025, 04:42:22 AMI think I might give this a patch or two before going back to it :D

Quote from: Syt on November 18, 2025, 05:42:49 AMAs Ottoman, aren't you supposed to kill all your brothers when you ascend? :P

Quote from: Solmyr on November 18, 2025, 11:17:11 AMAnyway, yesterday's patch fixed many bugs but broke levies badly. Now they just get massacred by regulars at an insane ratio. Whoever gets Professional Armies first wins the game.

Quote from: Valmy on November 17, 2025, 01:34:28 PMOne thing that bugs me is how to manage the size of the court. Obviously the bigger the court the more likely you can find great people to put in the cabinet or be in charge of military units.

On the other hand having to manage the personal lives of over 1,000 inbred nobles takes up way too much time.

I have no idea how to manage this going forward.

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 18, 2025, 01:03:32 PMIf it keeps on raining, the levies are going to break.

Quote from: Josephus on November 18, 2025, 01:24:25 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 17, 2025, 01:34:28 PMOne thing that bugs me is how to manage the size of the court. Obviously the bigger the court the more likely you can find great people to put in the cabinet or be in charge of military units.

On the other hand having to manage the personal lives of over 1,000 inbred nobles takes up way too much time.

I have no idea how to manage this going forward.

Manage their lives? I don't really bother with anybody who's not a direct descendant. Who cares why my cousin's nephew is up to?

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 18, 2025, 01:21:39 PMRegulars are lvl 20 fighters against level 0 peasants. 

Quote from: Valmy on November 18, 2025, 01:27:35 PM

Quote from: Josephus on November 18, 2025, 01:24:25 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 17, 2025, 01:34:28 PMOne thing that bugs me is how to manage the size of the court. Obviously the bigger the court the more likely you can find great people to put in the cabinet or be in charge of military units.

On the other hand having to manage the personal lives of over 1,000 inbred nobles takes up way too much time.

I have no idea how to manage this going forward.

Manage their lives? I don't really bother with anybody who's not a direct descendant. Who cares why my cousin's nephew is up to?

Well because I want high stat people, so a lot of courtiers is good. Also I was worried too much inbreeding might have bad effects but...maybe that is just a CK thing.

Quote from: Valmy on November 18, 2025, 01:27:35 PMHowever, I think over a long enough period of time it is inevitable you will have a giant court.

Quote from: Tamas on November 19, 2025, 04:48:22 PMhttps://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-89-19th-of-november-2025.1876786/

So tomorrow we will have radical re-rework of combat values and then next week the radical recalculation of the economic base which as I understand is a key metric informing several scaling systems.

Also next week's patch is going to be a major overhaul of vassal management,inckudingns rework of the centralisation-decentralisation axis.

Now apart from the ridiculously convoluted levy values the rest of the changes sound like good improvements, but I also feel frustrated I am in this very very familiar Paradox situation where I feel I want to play but I shouldn't because major changes are just a week away. And obviously next week's patch will break something brand new and then I will be waiting for the next fix etc.

Quote from: Tamas on November 19, 2025, 04:48:22 PMhttps://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-89-19th-of-november-2025.1876786/

So tomorrow we will have radical re-rework of combat values and then next week the radical recalculation of the economic base which as I understand is a key metric informing several scaling systems.

Also next week's patch is going to be a major overhaul of vassal management,inckudingns rework of the centralisation-decentralisation axis.

Now apart from the ridiculously convoluted levy values the rest of the changes sound like good improvements, but I also feel frustrated I am in this very very familiar Paradox situation where I feel I want to play but I shouldn't because major changes are just a week away. And obviously next week's patch will break something brand new and then I will be waiting for the next fix etc.

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 19, 2025, 06:33:12 PMI didn't get that deep into the game yet but it seemed like things were balanced OK on release.  Levies were stronger in the first 2 ages and maybe the 3rd but that mapped well on to the historical period when levies were dominant and standing armies non-existent to very rare. I think its perfectly OK if during the earlier period, the standing armies are basically there as royal bodyguards or small groups of specialists to be used in reserve or for sieges and such until you get to the 1600s or so.  Now maybe the balance on release was due in part to some coding mistake but then don't fix the mistake in a way that totally undoes that balance.

Quote from: Tamas on November 19, 2025, 04:48:22 PMNow apart from the ridiculously convoluted levy values the rest of the changes sound like good improvements, but I also feel frustrated I am in this very very familiar Paradox situation where I feel I want to play but I shouldn't because major changes are just a week away. And obviously next week's patch will break something brand new and then I will be waiting for the next fix etc.

Quote from: Syt on November 19, 2025, 11:40:09 PMNot to mention that part of me worries that they end up balancing it to a point where the game becomes either too easy or too difficult (unless you relentlessly min/max), or that the simulation mechanics become irrelevant because they've been balanced into a grey formless mush.

Quote from: Syt on November 20, 2025, 04:39:48 AMNot to mention many folks crying about low control in locations and that there "need" to be more ways to project it basically from day 1 of a campaign. "Second capitals", "provincial centers" etc., and while not completely invalid it's also increasing the chance to make the mechanic meaningless.

Quote from: Syt on November 20, 2025, 05:25:46 AMAnd a lot of them seem to look at it from the perspective of the first 10, 20 years of a 500 years campaign instead of taking a higher level view.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 20, 2025, 05:13:31 AMThe period, at a bird's eye level, has centralised states triumphing over decentralised states. There is also an arms race where countries gain huge but temporary leads, the UK with very powerful finance, or France with conscription. There seem to be different viable ways to get that strong control, from the UK's parliamentary system to Russian autocracy.

The way to "balance" the game imo is to make a decision to decentralise good in the short term, interest groups are placated for example, be they old fashioned methods of commercial organisation, regional peculiarites or class privileges. But long term, for this period, the "meta" is that centralised states have the edge over the decentralised ones.

Quote from: Syt on November 20, 2025, 04:39:48 AMNot to mention many folks crying about low control in locations and that there "need" to be more ways to project it basically from day 1 of a campaign. "Second capitals", "provincial centers" etc., and while not completely invalid it's also increasing the chance to make the mechanic meaningless.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 20, 2025, 09:23:53 AMYes, I think that is the story. There is nothing wrong with decentralisation per se, but it is easy to become prey for centralising predators. In our own time the EU is one of the best places to live in the world, with prosperity and great culture, but it is militarily and politically impotent when faced with an aggressive shithole like present day Russia.

QuoteSimilarly, the French got to stomp around the HRE causing havoc for about 200 years (1618-1815). The HRE was fine as a culture and civilisation, but it took the rise of Prussia to stop the great powers using it as their sandpit.

QuoteThe midpoint of the EU campaign in 1587.  From that standpoint I don't think it was obvious that centralizing was a superior state building strategy. The two western European countries with a centralizing drive - England and France - seemed trapped in endless cycles where they would thrive under strong monarchs, only to collapse back into confusion and civil strife during the reigns of weak monarchs or long regencies. And of course that pattern would continue into the mid-1600s.   On the flip side, city states like Venice or city leagues like the Hanse seemed a viable alternative model.  The HRE and the Habsburg agglomeration had all sorts of problems but managed to project resilience and exert power pretty consistently.  The Ottomans were at their height despite granting significant degrees of regional autonomy horizontally and within regions through the millet system.

Quote from: Sheilbh on November 21, 2025, 10:12:40 AMAnd toll castles. The rentier bastards <_<

QuoteExiting using Alt+F4 in Ironman will now save the game.

Quote from: Syt on November 24, 2025, 01:05:24 PMGoing through the 1.08 beta patch notes and saw this:

QuoteExiting using Alt+F4 in Ironman will now save the game.

:lmfao:

Quote from: Valmy on November 24, 2025, 02:27:45 PMIronman modes in games with popups drives me nuts. So easy to accidentally click something disastrous  :ph34r:

Quote from: Josephus on November 24, 2025, 05:11:28 PMMaybe if I complain to Johan, he'll make my game better in the next patch?  <_<

Quote from: Josephus on November 24, 2025, 05:11:28 PMand Tunis seems to be the bad boy of the Med.

Quote from: Tamas on November 25, 2025, 02:34:10 PMI am guetting frequent crashes with the beta.

Quote from: Norgy on November 27, 2025, 07:46:41 AMHmmm. I think I may have sussed at least a bit of the proximity/control system.

One thing that struck me was that I had slowly been racking up a negative cash stream. It would even out soon, I thought, trade was brisk, with increased control came more tax income. Well. I checked what kind of black hole all that sweet gold was going into. The cost of court. As an empire, Byzantium gets a really huge court. Which is nice for crown power, but apparently it can cost well over 100 ducats a month when it starts snowballing with grandchildren of third cousins and whatnot.

How to fix that, I do not know. Maybe I just need to execute some relatives.

Quote from: Solmyr on November 27, 2025, 03:42:20 PMIs the cost of court affected by the number of courtiers? I thought it was just based off your Economic Base (which is getting adjusted in 1.0.8).

QuoteYeah... six location vassal Hesse has +5.87 from "power relative to overlord" when they have 100k pops to my 4.5 million, 66 tax base to my 2250, and 1882 army size to my 85582. No idea what is bugged about this calculation, but being ~40x stronger than them in every metric across the board should be a significant amount of loyalty. I have one other vassal who is maybe 1.5x the size of Hesse, and I'm still 20-30x stronger than both combined. I get as much loyalty from being 40x stronger than Hesse as I do from "base value for every country +5". That's some pretty busted math there. Seems like either you commit to 100 decentralization and spending 1/3 of your income on diplomatic expenses for the entire game and never stop doing vassal play, or you never take a vassal the whole game.

Quote from: Tamas on December 03, 2025, 04:03:09 AMI suspect that despite the opinion modifiers being all gungho about relative strength, it is the war-declaration check that decides if the AI subject is going to go for it or not, and that's rather timid.

Quote from: crazy canuck on December 03, 2025, 08:29:11 AMJos, with Castile, at the start of the game, delete a bunch of the unneeded fortifications.

That frees up a lot of budget room.

Quote from: HVC on December 03, 2025, 04:32:00 AMPlus ça change :P

Quote from: DGuller on December 03, 2025, 12:02:39 PMLooks like my CtDs were a blessing in disguise, frankly I think the complexity of EU5 far outstrips the abilities of Paradox to ever balance it. 

Quote from: DGuller on December 03, 2025, 12:02:39 PMLooks like my CtDs were a blessing in disguise, frankly I think the complexity of EU5 far outstrips the abilities of Paradox to ever balance it. 

This reminds me of a case in a very different genre:  iRacing in sim-racing.  Their lead physics modeler couldn't give up on the ambition of building a tire behavior model entirely from first principles, despite the fact that even for tire companies tire behavior is still a bit of a black box.  The more he tried to fix it from first principles, the more he uncovered different modes where tire behavior went completely off the rails.