Quote
Asia & Pacific
Trump and Sessions plan to restrict highly skilled foreign workers. Hyderabad says bring it on.
By Max Bearak
Washington Post
January 8 at 2:14 PM
HYDERABAD, India — The ritual goes like this: If you're approaching the god Balaji with an appeal, walk in a circle around the temple 11 times and leave an offering of tulsi leaves at his feet. Should your wish be granted, come back and do it 108 times.
"We call him Visa Balaji," said Madhu Vadlamani, 25. "He is famous for granting visas."
Madhu and her husband of just three days, Revanth Chilakamarri, 29, were but two of thousands of worshipers orbiting the "Visa Balaji" temple near here one recent morning. Years ago, the incarnation of Vishnu had blessed them both with student visas to the United States. Though they had grown up just seven lanes apart, they met in America and fell in love.
The two software developers had returned to the temple that morning to appeal to Balaji, in hopes of renewing their American sojourn with a new visa — the H-1B.
For the new political order taking shape in Washington, however, H-1Bs aren't quite welcome. Amid promises of sweeping changes to immigration policy, President-elect Donald Trump and his choice for attorney general, Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), have tabbed the program for a major overhaul, or even scrapping it altogether. In the House, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) is on the same wavelength.
The visas bring nearly 100,000 "highly skilled" contract workers, mostly in tech and mostly from India, to the United States every year. Most stay for multiple years, and some eventually get green cards. According to federal guidelines, H-1Bs are intended to fill positions for which American workers with the requisite skills can't be found. Whether the program always does that is intensely debated by industry lobbyists and politicians, and companies are not legally required to ensure that is the case.
Trump has described H-1Bs as a "cheap labor program" subject to "widespread, rampant" abuse. Sessions co-sponsored legislation last year with Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) to effectively gut the program; Issa, a congressman with Trump's ear, released a statement Wednesday saying he was reintroducing similar legislation called the Protect and Grow American Jobs Act.
Sessions will likely give a least a glimpse of his plans regarding the program at his confirmation hearing Tuesday.
Sessions and Issa's legislation primarily target large outsourcing companies such as Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services that receive the vast majority of H-1B visas and use them to deploy workers to American companies seeking to cut costs. In 2015, the top 10 recipients of H-1B visas were all outsourcing firms. As recently as 2013, the Justice Department, which Sessions stands to take over, settled with Infosys for $34 million in a visa fraud case.
"Logically speaking, I'm worried," said Vadlamani, who until recently worked for Deloitte in Orlando. "But being Indian, I believe that if it is in my karma, then I will get the visa. If not, there are more and more jobs these days at good companies here."
But if Vadlamani is circumspect about her prospects should the visa program be restricted, politicians and business executives in her hometown are bullish. Not only is employment booming in Hyderabad, they say, but should the United States move against H-1Bs, their economy stands to gain.
The H-1B program provides American companies with cheap, temporary contractors who often work longer hours than Americans and take on the monotonous programming jobs Americans scorn. Proponents of the program argue that foreign workers increase innovation at American companies as well as contribute to local economies. A few Indians who came on work visas have even gone on to become heads of important American companies.
Meanwhile, India's growth as a global tech hub has been hampered as tens of thousands of workers leave.
Over the past decade, though, cities like Hyderabad and Bangalore have slowly but surely gained prominence. At first it was mostly a base for outsourcing companies servicing American clients, but now Hyderabad is home to the biggest offices outside the United States of Apple, Google, Microsoft and Facebook. Amazon, Dell, Uber and others have major operations there. All have huge campuses in a part of the city officially known as Cyberabad.
Cyberabad's existence is the result of investments in education and infrastructure made by N. Chandrababu Naidu, the chief minister of Andhra Pradesh, where Hyderabad was located until the state was bifurcated in 2014. A network of dozens of information technology institutes trained a generation of engineers and software developers to work back-end jobs for American companies.
For that generation, getting an H-1B was the holy grail. Even though the work in America could be dull, being there provided a chance to engage with an invigorating culture of innovation that just wasn't present in India yet. And of course, working abroad meant a huge increase in income and prestige.
But the H-1B cap meant that the bulk of Indian tech workers stayed back. The current cap — not just from India — is 65,000, plus another 20,000 who have graduated from American universities with advanced degrees, down from almost double that at the beginning of the 2000s.
Among those who do get them, most ultimately return to settle and work in India. In Hyderabad, many of those returnees are confident that their city can compete with Silicon Valley for India's brightest young minds.
K.T. Rama Rao, the son of the current chief minister, was one of them. Now he's the minister for information technology in his father's government. He pointed to Apple as an example of how Hyderabad could absorb the thousands of workers in a potential future with far fewer H-1Bs — or without them altogether.
"Apple is already moving their maps division here, and they're doing that because we're producing more G.I.S. talent than anyone else in the world," he claimed in an interview, referring to geographic information systems. "Ideally, a president of the United States would have a balanced perspective on business, but if he wants tech firms to stay, he should create better job readiness in the U.S."
Rao said that legislation targeting big Indian outsourcing companies would wean them away from their dependency on servicing American companies. Without the visa program, they would have to engage in new lines of work that created value in Hyderabad and not abroad, he said.
Amit Jain, now the president of Uber India, is another returnee who used to be on an H-1B. He said that the influx of American companies, as well as a growing indigenous start-up culture, could offer what Indians used to seek in the United States closer to home.
"We definitely have a more robust ecosystem here now," said Jain. "We're seeing plenty of hiring in the future."
So, is this the right move for America? Are companies going to be able to push back against Der Furor's Trumpenreich to keep their smelly feet people? Is Making America White Again the right play here for the IT industry?
The current system is being abused.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 08, 2017, 08:21:51 PM
The current system is being abused.
So is the income tax system. And the federal procurement process. Big deal. Is the system, as it is abused now, more of a detriment to the US economy and these companies that than if it were gone altogether?
It's hard to say. IT, in particular, is not a field where there aren't enough Americans to do it. It's a field that Americans have stopped entering because others are doing it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 08, 2017, 08:25:23 PM
So is the income tax system. And the federal procurement process. Big deal. Is the system, as it is abused now, more of a detriment to the US economy and these companies that than if it were gone altogether?
Overall I imagine the economy would benefit as a whole if all the Bengali coders were sent packing because their American replacements wouldn't be remitting pay home.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 08, 2017, 08:58:33 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 08, 2017, 08:25:23 PM
So is the income tax system. And the federal procurement process. Big deal. Is the system, as it is abused now, more of a detriment to the US economy and these companies that than if it were gone altogether?
Overall I imagine the economy would benefit as a whole if all the Bengali coders were sent packing because their American replacements wouldn't be remitting pay home.
What American replacements? Where are these American replacements coming from? Carrier?
Fewer H-1Bs will mean higher wages and thus more attractive jobs for people interested in CIS and the like. It will also mean more companies leaving the US so as to take advantage of the lower wages elsewhere. Hard to say whether the net will be a positive or a negative.
Quote from: grumbler on January 08, 2017, 09:20:45 PM
Hard to say whether the net will be a positive or a negative.
(https://i.imgur.com/XCKha.gif)
Why would we want smart people to get a visa.
I will say that at UT Engineering the career office made sure all the foreign students understood VISAs would not be a big deal if they got an offer and it was not like they had to check if any of the rest of us could do that job first :P
Good for Canada - Microsoft et. al. will likely increase their presence here to hire the foreign workers they need if they can't do so in the US.
I doubt it for Canada. It might help in Dublin though.
Tech industry people are smelly liberals.
Ergo :nelson:. - is this Trump policy?
H1Bs are big for the entertainment industry, this can potentially suck for me although I don't need to work "onsite".
The procedure, unless it got changed since the late 2000s - when I was over there - involved your professional union (WGA, DGA, SATSE...) testifying that you brought some unique skill to the table, and that you weren't taking a job from an American.
It's a good idea in connection with all the other protectionism ideas he has put forth. Alone, not so much.
I wonder how this will affect the many canucks who come to north dakota, and stay to work, because they couldn't get into manitoba law :hmm:
Quote from: celedhring on January 09, 2017, 03:36:41 AM
H1Bs are big for the entertainment industry, this can potentially suck for me although I don't need to work "onsite".
The procedure, unless it got changed since the late 2000s - when I was over there - involved your professional union (WGA, DGA, SATSE...) testifying that you brought some unique skill to the table, and that you weren't taking a job from an American.
Same in academia. But you do have to be onsite, despite the massive efforts by many colleges and universities to push electronic courses.
Quote from: LaCroix on January 09, 2017, 09:02:32 AM
I wonder how this will affect the many canucks who come to north dakota, and stay to work, because they couldn't get into manitoba law :hmm:
And you people thought I was joking when I said U of Manitoba Law was a prestigious school! :contract:
Not joking, just delusional. :P
did I say that? I've known for awhile that canuck law schools have way higher admission standards than the average US law school
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 09, 2017, 12:48:04 AM
I doubt it for Canada. It might help in Dublin though.
It's good for Canada too. If they want to hire someone for a Seattle office but the visa is too much of a hassle, they frequently hire them to a Vancouver office. Amazon, Microsoft, Google all do that as I understand it and I wouldn't be surprised if other large corporations do as well.
About 65% of h1-b grantees work in computer-related occupations. The program is capped at 65,000 per year so that we are talking about a little over 40,000 people in occupations held by over 3.8 million Americans. That's the most impacted sector.
Trump's rhetoric in the campaign is that he favored immigration but not "bad" immigration. But the H1-B program targets college graduates, and the majority have at least a master's degree. There is a high proportion of Indian national which one would not think is a problematic nationality in the Trump worldview. So if he is against this what is he for?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 03:46:57 PM
About 65% of h1-b grantees work in computer-related occupations. The program is capped at 65,000 per year so that we are talking about a little over 40,000 people in occupations held by over 3.8 million Americans. That's the most impacted sector.
Trump's rhetoric in the campaign is that he favored immigration but not "bad" immigration. But the H1-B program targets college graduates, and the majority have at least a master's degree. There is a high proportion of Indian national which one would not think is a problematic nationality in the Trump worldview. So if he is against this what is he for?
I guess it sounds nice as a tweet about controlling immigration?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 03:46:57 PM
About 65% of h1-b grantees work in computer-related occupations. The program is capped at 65,000 per year so that we are talking about a little over 40,000 people in occupations held by over 3.8 million Americans. That's the most impacted sector.
"The negative effects of this program are limited" is not the most brilliant sales pitch for its continuation.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 03:46:57 PM
About 65% of h1-b grantees work in computer-related occupations. The program is capped at 65,000 per year so that we are talking about a little over 40,000 people in occupations held by over 3.8 million Americans. That's the most impacted sector.
"The negative effects of this program are limited" is not the most brilliant sales pitch for its continuation.
Seems like our officials might, I don't know, have other more pressing matters to contend with?
Also, I don't recall Joan mentioning negative effects of the program, just talking size.
Quote from: garbon on January 09, 2017, 04:18:28 PM
Also, I don't recall Joan mentioning negative effects of the program, just talking size.
Sure, he might have just been throwing out fun facts about the program. Anything is possible.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 04:21:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 09, 2017, 04:18:28 PM
Also, I don't recall Joan mentioning negative effects of the program, just talking size.
Sure, he might have just been throwing out fun facts about the program. Anything is possible.
He could be noting, as I was, that it is so small potatoes that good or ill, it is insignificant.
Quote from: garbon on January 09, 2017, 04:21:44 PM
He could be noting, as I was, that it is so small potatoes that good or ill, it is insignificant.
He could be, and that's the way I interpreted it. But then you told me he wasn't discussing negative impacts.
I don't know what to think anymore. :(
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 04:24:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 09, 2017, 04:21:44 PM
He could be noting, as I was, that it is so small potatoes that good or ill, it is insignificant.
He could be, and that's the way I interpreted it. But then you told me he wasn't discussing negative impacts.
I don't know what to think anymore. :(
:rolleyes:
Also, it is true what I said - he made no mention of negative impacts.
Quote from: garbon on January 09, 2017, 04:42:44 PM
rolleyes:
Also, it is true what I said - he made no mention of negative impacts.
Good point! He might be throwing out fun facts! :yes:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 03:46:57 PM
About 65% of h1-b grantees work in computer-related occupations. The program is capped at 65,000 per year so that we are talking about a little over 40,000 people in occupations held by over 3.8 million Americans. That's the most impacted sector.
"The negative effects of this program are limited" is not the most brilliant sales pitch for its continuation.
Who is selling this program, and when did they say "the negative effects of this program are limited"?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 04:47:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 09, 2017, 04:42:44 PM
rolleyes:
Also, it is true what I said - he made no mention of negative impacts.
Good point! He might be throwing out fun facts! :yes:
I don't know why he thinks this discussion needs to involve facts. We have Trumpfacts, which trump facts.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 03:46:57 PM
About 65% of h1-b grantees work in computer-related occupations. The program is capped at 65,000 per year so that we are talking about a little over 40,000 people in occupations held by over 3.8 million Americans. That's the most impacted sector.
"The negative effects of this program are limited" is not the most brilliant sales pitch for its continuation.
It's true, from a certain point of view.
(https://mygeekblasphemy.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/obi-wan-ghost.png)
Tech jobs don't leave because of H1Bs. The functions themselves go overseas. Only the few higher-level functions that remain onshore are affected by the visas, but that's just in a cost-dampening way. What we see now is the vast majority of IT jobs created in the US are help desk types and other lower-prestige jobs. So the people don't go into it anymore because there isn't anything to shoot for.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 03:46:57 PM
About 65% of h1-b grantees work in computer-related occupations. The program is capped at 65,000 per year so that we are talking about a little over 40,000 people in occupations held by over 3.8 million Americans. That's the most impacted sector.
"The negative effects of this program are limited" is not the most brilliant sales pitch for its continuation.
I would think the benefits are pretty obvious, although again they are limited by the relatively small size of the program.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 06:11:59 PM
I would think the benefits are pretty obvious, although again they are limited by the relatively small size of the program.
The benefits as conceived or as executed?
Either. The program either as conceived or executed brings in a bunch of smart educated people. I think smart educated people are good to have. Although opinions may differ these days.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 06:17:29 PM
Either. The program either as conceived or executed brings in a bunch of smart educated people. I think smart educated people are good to have. Although opinions may differ these days.
Kind of a liability, or so I've heard regarding the US today.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 06:11:59 PM
I would think the benefits are pretty obvious, although again they are limited by the relatively small size of the program.
The benefits as conceived or as executed?
Do you think that H-1B visa holders are stealing jobs from Americans as the program is currently executed?
Quote from: Jacob on January 09, 2017, 06:49:27 PM
Do you think that H-1B visa holders are stealing jobs from Americans as the program is currently executed?
Mostly.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 09, 2017, 06:49:27 PM
Do you think that H-1B visa holders are stealing jobs from Americans as the program is currently executed?
Mostly.
That's retarded.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 09, 2017, 07:00:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 09, 2017, 06:49:27 PM
Do you think that H-1B visa holders are stealing jobs from Americans as the program is currently executed?
Mostly.
That's retarded.
It's retarded even if we're discussing manual labor jobs, like picking crops. It's even more retarded when we're discussing tech jobs.
If immigrants or people on work visas are taking jobs from Americans, it's because they're doing jobs American are too lazy to do or aren't qualified to do. They only time it might be reasonable to argue that they're stealing jobs from Americans is if they're working for less than minimum wage--in which case the problem isn't with immigration policy, but with lax enforcement of minimum wage laws.
I don't think there is any doubt that the availability of H1B workers depresses salaries. That is just basic economics.
Quote from: Berkut on January 09, 2017, 07:16:10 PM
I don't think there is any doubt that the availability of H1B workers depresses salaries. That is just basic economics.
Bullshit. Employers depress salaries, not immigrants.
:lol:
Go fuck yourself, Yihman Brothers.
Quote from: dps on January 09, 2017, 07:15:12 PMIf immigrants or people on work visas are taking jobs from Americans, it's because they're doing jobs American are too lazy to do or aren't qualified to do.
or they're doing the same jobs and are "more qualified" (however that's defined in a given circumstance) than qualified american applicants
Quote from: Berkut on January 09, 2017, 07:16:10 PM
I don't think there is any doubt that the availability of H1B workers depresses salaries. That is just basic economics.
Um no. You don't get any more basic than supply and demand curves. H1B visas may shift the supply curve to the right, but they can also shift the demand curve to the right. The effect on price is ambiguous.
Quote from: alfred russel on January 09, 2017, 07:42:30 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 09, 2017, 07:16:10 PM
I don't think there is any doubt that the availability of H1B workers depresses salaries. That is just basic economics.
Um no. You don't get any more basic than supply and demand curves. H1B visas may shift the supply curve to the right, but they can also shift the demand curve to the right. The effect on price is ambiguous.
I don't think that lack of independence between supply and demand curves is the most basic thing. It's not at all basic, from what I know. The most basic economic concept is that curves shift independent of one another.
Quote from: Berkut on January 09, 2017, 07:16:10 PM
I don't think there is any doubt that the availability of H1B workers depresses salaries. That is just basic economics.
I think there is some doubt. The numbers aren't large enough to have a big impact. There is reason to believe that some of those jobs would just be geographically outsourced. Many of the program participants -- Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon - are paying program workers salaries above the median for the job category. The big consulting groups pay less but probably because they generally pay less.
The other consideration is that if even one or two of those guys contributes to some idea or helps start a new business line that itself employs more people there could be a net positive impact.
Quote from: alfred russel on January 09, 2017, 07:42:30 PM
Um no. You don't get any more basic than supply and demand curves. H1B visas may shift the supply curve to the right, but they can also shift the demand curve to the right. The effect on price is ambiguous.
How would they shift the demand curve? Do Indian tech workers all need assistant tech workers?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 08:05:05 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on January 09, 2017, 07:42:30 PM
Um no. You don't get any more basic than supply and demand curves. H1B visas may shift the supply curve to the right, but they can also shift the demand curve to the right. The effect on price is ambiguous.
How would they shift the demand curve? Do Indian tech workers all need assistant tech workers?
By allowing the US to become a global tech leader.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2017, 08:05:05 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on January 09, 2017, 07:42:30 PM
Um no. You don't get any more basic than supply and demand curves. H1B visas may shift the supply curve to the right, but they can also shift the demand curve to the right. The effect on price is ambiguous.
How would they shift the demand curve? Do Indian tech workers all need assistant tech workers?
No, but don't they need tech assistance. :huh:
Quote from: 11B4V on January 09, 2017, 08:11:28 PM
No, but don't they need tech assistance. :huh:
They don't, but you do, pal. Please unplug your router, wait 30 seconds and then plug it back in.
Quote from: alfred russel on January 09, 2017, 08:08:41 PM
By allowing the US to become a global tech leader.
I don't follow your logic.
The availability of quality staff is a key consideration for a tech company in deciding where to locate facilities. It is the single most determining factor in identifying successful "technology clusters" of which the Valley is the most prominent.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 09, 2017, 08:03:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 09, 2017, 07:16:10 PM
I don't think there is any doubt that the availability of H1B workers depresses salaries. That is just basic economics.
I think there is some doubt. The numbers aren't large enough to have a big impact. There is reason to believe that some of those jobs would just be geographically outsourced. Many of the program participants -- Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon - are paying program workers salaries above the median for the job category. The big consulting groups pay less but probably because they generally pay less.
The other consideration is that if even one or two of those guys contributes to some idea or helps start a new business line that itself employs more people there could be a net positive impact.
I think you are wrong about the doubt. Having more people willing to come do complex engineering work at half the cost certainly depresses salaries for American workers. I know this because *I HIRE THESE PEOPLE*. And I certainly consider the costs of a foreign worker when deciding what I am willing to pay.
Now, I agree that it is a net positive effect overall - indeed, I would argue it is a HUGE positive effect, in fact. For one, the numbers are not that large. They are large enough to notice in that it isn't such a barrier in numbers that you don't consider it. And there are other costs involved in hiring these workers as well - legal costs, hassle costs, cultural integration costs (although if you hire a bunch of them, it perversely actually starts working the other way, and if you hire a bunch of them AND outsource work to India as well, you get some really interesting cultural dynamics working you would not expect).
But I have zero doubt that this depresses wages among technology workers. I also have little doubt that the demand for technology workers is great enough that they are still making a lot more than nearly everyone else, so I am not terribly worried about that small depression of prices.
Please send me resumes of US Citizens with the following qualifications (no degree required):
• Hands-on experience with MySQL, Tomcat, and Linux or equivalent
• Competency in writing SQL queries and executing Linux commands
• Experience reviewing raw log files (i.e. firewall, network flow, DLP, IDS, system logs)
• Ability to travel at least 25%-50% of the time
• Willing to relocate to Atlanta, New York City, or Washington DC metro areas
If I am travelling half the time, why do I need to live in one of those areas?
Quote from: Berkut on January 09, 2017, 08:21:15 PM
I think you are wrong about the doubt. Having more people willing to come do complex engineering work at half the cost certainly depresses salaries for American workers. I know this because *I HIRE THESE PEOPLE*.
In that cutting edge bustling tech hub of Rochester, NY? No wonder they're depressed. Probably the wages, too.
QuoteAnd I certainly consider the costs of a foreign worker when deciding what I am willing to pay.
QuoteEmployers depress salaries, not immigrants.
:lol:
Quote from: Berkut on January 09, 2017, 08:28:54 PM
If I am travelling half the time, why do I need to live in one of those areas?
At least 25% of the time, engineers need to work alongside and learn from each other in the office. A junior engineer will not be able to effectively execute and mature if they start off from home, and senior engineers need to train up and lead their teams face-to-face at least 25% of the time.
Quote from: Berkut on January 09, 2017, 08:21:15 PM
I think you are wrong about the doubt. Having more people willing to come do complex engineering work at half the cost certainly depresses salaries for American workers. I know this because *I HIRE THESE PEOPLE*. And I certainly consider the costs of a foreign worker when deciding what I am willing to pay.
That's an individual hiring decision. The questions are what impact all of these hiring decisions and the complex interaction of those decisions with the economy have on the overall labor market.
Quote from: Phillip V on January 09, 2017, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 09, 2017, 08:28:54 PM
If I am travelling half the time, why do I need to live in one of those areas?
At least 25% of the time, engineers need to work alongside and learn from each other in the office. A junior engineer will not be able to effectively execute and mature if they start off from home, and senior engineers need to train up and lead their teams face-to-face at least 25% of the time.
Dude, I can give you a list of people as long as my arm if you take off the moving to a terrible city requirement. Why don't you just pick somebody local and train them? I could teach a high school grad all those skills in less than a year if I pick a smart one.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 09, 2017, 08:39:28 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on January 09, 2017, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 09, 2017, 08:28:54 PM
If I am travelling half the time, why do I need to live in one of those areas?
At least 25% of the time, engineers need to work alongside and learn from each other in the office. A junior engineer will not be able to effectively execute and mature if they start off from home, and senior engineers need to train up and lead their teams face-to-face at least 25% of the time.
Dude, I can give you a list of people as long as my arm if you take off the moving to a terrible city requirement. Why don't you just pick somebody local and train them? I could teach a high school grad all those skills in less than a year if I pick a smart one.
Corporate masters don't want to train anybody more than a few weeks.
Depending on skill/experience, I can possibly get rid of the location requirement, though Dallas and San Francisco are also options.
Quote from: Phillip V on January 09, 2017, 08:49:30 PM
Corporate masters don't want to train anybody more than a few weeks.
Depending on skill/experience, I can possibly get rid of the location requirement, though Dallas and San Francisco are also options.
Those are pretty low-end skills, to be honest. Give me a month to brush up on my Linux and I'd have those down pat, and I'm not graduating until May. Also, spoken like somebody who doesn't understand his own hiring requirements in not knowing the distinctions in various SQL flavors (or how little they actually mean to 99% of query writers). Even people who learned SQL during a MS Access class could write adequate SQL queries in MySQL. I'd go further than MIM to say those could be trained in 6 weeks and have enough mastery not to require task-level supervision within the year.