But doping aside
I think it'll be a great tour this year, the route is different in a very good way. Astana vs. Saxo Bank. Astana vs. Astana. And last year's winner, little Carlos. Evans, Menchov? So many favorites it's hard to choose.
Good year.
I just wonder how Armstrong is going to deal with his handicaps during the race. It's hard enough doing it without the roids but with the French stopping him every 15 minutes to pee in a cup it will kill his overall time.
To document any cheating the French followed Armstrong all 20 minutes of his race. He looked okay, although far from previous strength.
Quote from: Liep on July 04, 2009, 10:34:43 AM
To document any cheating the French followed Armstrong all 20 minutes of his race. He looked okay, although far from previous strength.
Maybe cause he's older?
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2009, 11:36:22 AM
Maybe cause he's older?
Well, yeah. I just didn't think he'd be quite as sharp as he looked.
So... am I the only one watching this? :P Cavendish seems invincible, perhaps if the others can manage not to crash in the final kilometer.
My co-worker does. Freaks.
I watch, I bike quite a bit and I admire these doped-out freaks for what they can do.
So Armstrong managed to get 41 seconds to the other favorites on a flat stage - and war breaks lose on Astana. Really goes to show why he won 7 times what with his competitors not even bothering to stay ahead.
Cavendish won, of course.
Lance! :w00t:
If he wins again, no matter how doped, he's not only the greatest but he's also running against the worst. Christ, the man is older than Jesus.
I have no desire to follow Armstrong's recycled (get it?) tour. He retired when he should have, and this unretiring business tells me he is too weak a character to get on with his life.
Quote from: grumbler on July 06, 2009, 08:10:40 PM
I have no desire to follow Armstrong's recycled (get it?) tour. He retired when he should have, and this unretiring business tells me he is too weak a character to get on with his life.
What else would he do?
Quote from: Liep on July 06, 2009, 05:31:48 PM
If he wins again, no matter how doped, he's not only the greatest but he's also running against the worst. Christ, the man is older than Jesus.
Or maybe his chemist is the greatest. :unsure:
Sometimes I think that doping should be legalized, so that at least we could have an honest and open competition between the doctors. That might actually lead to some useful discoveries, sort of like how auto racing used to lead to new developments in cars.
Quote from: Strix on July 04, 2009, 10:25:28 AM
I just wonder how Armstrong is going to deal with his handicaps during the race. It's hard enough doing it without the roids but with the French stopping him every 15 minutes to pee in a cup it will kill his overall time.
:lol: :lol:
I am European, and still love Lance.
Dude is fucking hardcore with or without roids.
You gotta be impressed by his stamina, courage and that heart of gold.
:blush:
Quote from: Norgy on July 06, 2009, 11:53:53 PM
Quote from: Strix on July 04, 2009, 10:25:28 AM
I just wonder how Armstrong is going to deal with his handicaps during the race. It's hard enough doing it without the roids but with the French stopping him every 15 minutes to pee in a cup it will kill his overall time.
:lol: :lol:
I am European, and still love Lance.
Dude is fucking hardcore with or without roids.
You gotta be impressed by his stamina, courage and that heart of gold.
:blush:
It's like watching England lose at all those sports they invented. Priceless.
Will he be in yellow after toady's team time trial?
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 07, 2009, 08:16:50 AM
Will he be in yellow after toady's team time trial?
I don't think so, Saxo Bank can manage a pretty good time trial and Cancellara has 40 seconds on Armstrong.
But as Menchov, Ballan and several others have already shown anything can apparently happen today. A very difficult route.
There is a small flaw in France's evil plan to tarnish the legacy of Austin's greatest: A Frenchman wasn't going to win any of those races anyway. The only dude whose career got screwed by Lance was Jan Ulrich.
The Tour de France is rapidly becoming France's Wimbledon.
Zülle didn't get it easy either, first 2nd after Indurain and then a 2nd spot after Armstrong too. That guy was a laugh to see cycling.
Soon, Saxo Bank is using up a lot of energy to keep the yellow jersey. Anyway, shaping up to be a good race.
Lance is in second place by only a fraction of a second!
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/31778836/ns/sports-tour_de_france/
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.historicmontgomerytexas.com%2Fimages%2FLance_Texasflag.jpg&hash=ef5ba1d6f74e5f70a5568d6f21a5241c1d047bfc)
:)
Quote from: Liep on July 07, 2009, 08:50:24 AM
Zülle didn't get it easy either, first 2nd after Indurain and then a 2nd spot after Armstrong too. That guy was a laugh to see cycling.
There is no Armstrong, only Zulle.
Screw Indurain!
Thor Hushovd blows as usual.
Dude has "a cold" again, I guess.
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2009, 08:47:13 AM
There is a small flaw in France's evil plan to tarnish the legacy of Austin's greatest: A Frenchman wasn't going to win any of those races anyway. The only dude whose career got screwed by Lance was Jan Ulrich.
The Tour de France is rapidly becoming France's Wimbledon.
Altho, it's not like any French has won Rolang Garros lately either. Or been successfull in F1 Racing(as a pilot).
So Astana has 4 men in the top 5. I find it hard to see how anyone can challenge them, except for themselves. It'll be interesting to watch the first mountain stage on friday.
Quote from: Liep on July 07, 2009, 05:27:01 PM
So Astana has 4 men in the top 5. I find it hard to see how anyone can challenge them, except for themselves. It'll be interesting to watch the first mountain stage on friday.
I think Armstrong will not be able to climb with Contador - Astana will not win with SOMEONE only if the two of them fight. Somehow I think Armstrong wants to win, but that little spanish fellow is just too good now, too much of an all around threat.
Lance remains a fraction of a second behind.
The Finn will lose the mountain jersey to a French it seems. This also just in, Lance will remain a fraction of a second behind.
I like Millar. He 'fessed up to cheating, came back clean, gets tested all the time for team Garmin, and has shown he races for his love of racing.
Yes, very exciting with plenty of drama and good racing.
This has been the most exciting first week of the tour I can remember watching for years, perhaps ever.
Congratulations Thor!
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2009, 08:47:13 AM
There is a small flaw in France's evil plan to tarnish the legacy of Austin's greatest: A Frenchman wasn't going to win any of those races anyway. The only dude whose career got screwed by Lance was Jan Ulrich.
The Tour de France is rapidly becoming France's Wimbledon.
If you get to France during the Tour, you'll see that it is one of the few sports where the population is rooting for the sport rather than the nationality (at least in my experience). Armstrong - thanks to his history - started out a big favourite of the population. It took the equiries of L'Équipe to turn the tide. And now a new book just came out (Le sale Tour) that adds yet other suspicions of tricky behaviour by Armstrong.
Never trust a Texan.
What's the latest dirt on Armstrong?
Quote from: DGuller on July 09, 2009, 10:36:01 AM
What's the latest dirt on Armstrong?
The Spaniards hate him because he badmouthed Sastre's victory last year, and because he's too much of a threat to his captain, Contador.
Yesterday was a rough stage with the rain and crashes, and today the real tour starts. Should be fun.
The French might even see Pineau in the yellow jersey, iirc he's not half bad in the mountains. I wonder how many of the 12 minutes the escape will lose on the climb.
I'm a little disappointed by the devolpment. It's surprising that the first mountain stage has actually been less exciting than the flat stages.
The only one who seemed like he could actually follow Contador was Armstrong. Astana, christ.
Quote from: Liep on July 10, 2009, 10:26:57 AM
The only one who seemed like he could actually follow Contador was Armstrong. Astana, christ.
Contador, Armstrong, Kloden, Popo for a domestique...they are stacked like a silicon hooker.
Also, what the hell is Wiggins doing with the favorite group? Are we suppose to believe that a Brit can cycle uphill?
Interesting stage today, Evans tried and failed, Schleck tried and failed. Though surprisingly many were able to follow Andy when he attacked, Wiggins, Martin, Vande Velde, the entire team Astana.
I think Andy Schleck will be able to drop all the semi-contenders in the Alps. Armstrong looks pretty good (yesterday he could have attacked, but you don't attack your own teammate). Contador still looks the best to me, especially with Astana having Leipheimer and Kloden as lead-out men...
Quote from: PDH on July 11, 2009, 12:25:48 PM
...but you don't attack your own teammate)...
Wasn't Contador's attack a direct challenge to Armstrong? Or am I not picking up on your sarcasm? :P
Quote from: Liep on July 11, 2009, 06:28:51 PM
Wasn't Contador's attack a direct challenge to Armstrong? Or am I not picking up on your sarcasm? :P
Parrt sarcasm, but only part. Contador's attack came when the chase group had settled down - anyone could have gone. His came first, and so Armstrong didn't respond to Contador (though I bet he would have liked to), but he did respond to the others - Wiggins, et al.
What the hell was Cadel thinking in attacking in the first climb? He should have known they would chase him down.
Kinda sad to see Hincapie could not stay with the breakaway and a chance for a win, so many years of work for only one stage win in The Tour. 14 Tours I think, that is pretty awesome.
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 11, 2009, 10:11:28 PM
What the hell was Cadel thinking in attacking in the first climb? He should have known they would chase him down.
Kinda sad to see Hincapie could not stay with the breakaway and a chance for a win, so many years of work for only one stage win in The Tour. 14 Tours I think, that is pretty awesome.
One has to believe he feels Armstrong's victories are also a part of his resume. Also, I can understand why Evans tries, he has to somehow gain seconds on Contador and he can't beat him on a final climb.
Armstrong on the attack? This stage is looking very promising.
Fucking finish 70 km from the Tourmalet...I know, I know, the organizers want an exciting last week, but jeebus, this is two days in a row where good mountains were ruined by the line being too far from the last climb.
Quote from: PDH on July 12, 2009, 11:04:37 AM
Fucking finish 70 km from the Tourmalet...I know, I know, the organizers want an exciting last week, but jeebus, this is two days in a row where good mountains were ruined by the line being too far from the last climb.
Yeah, it's a shame to see a Tourmalet stage where sprinters like Freire had a real shot at a victory. The pyranees stages has been a bit off, hopefully it is countered by a race for overall victory on Mont Venteux.
Quote from: Armyknife on July 14, 2009, 09:19:17 PM
Damn it I missed todays stage, what happened.
Nothing
Quote from: Armyknife on July 14, 2009, 09:19:17 PM
Damn it I missed todays stage, what happened.
You missed probably the most boring stage ever...
Yeah, the only moderately exciting thing was Arvesen crashing. He is officially out of the tour. :(
As someone said earlier, the organizers really managed to turn pretty much the entire tour into a snore-fest leading up to one massive stage at the end. Really stupid IMO.
Quote from: bogh on July 15, 2009, 02:50:08 AM
Yeah, the only moderately exciting thing was Arvesen crashing. He is officially out of the tour. :(
As someone said earlier, the organizers really managed to turn pretty much the entire tour into a snore-fest leading up to one massive stage at the end. Really stupid IMO.
I see at least 3 alp stages that are very exciting, at least on paper. And the final time trial should be good as well.
A stage is about 200km and in the end Cavendish wins. Could he be a new object of hate for the French?
Quote from: Liep on July 16, 2009, 04:57:45 AM
A stage is about 200km and in the end Cavendish wins. Could he be a new object of hate for the French?
Yes, Cavendish is lucky they still have Armstrong to bitch about.
A shocker just came out. Armstrong tested positive for two foreign substances that French Officials could not identify. The samples were sent to a Belgium lab and it turned out to be shampoo and soap.
:d
Durwood, a huge TdF fan, seems to think Armstrong is going to take this without a problem.
Nicki Sørensen! Yay! Fantastic win by the old guy - and deserved after 7 years of being a teamplayer in the tour.
Quote from: Habsburg on July 16, 2009, 12:16:25 PM
Durwood, a huge TdF fan, seems to think Armstrong is going to take this without a problem.
From following it (on and off) in the past, isn't it usually a case of people hanging ahead or near Armstrong than he blows everyone away on the last couple mountain treks before the end?
Quote from: Strix on July 16, 2009, 01:34:04 PM
From following it (on and off) in the past, isn't it usually a case of people hanging ahead or near Armstrong than he blows everyone away on the last couple mountain treks before the end?
Had this been 2005, sure that would have happened. But 3 years without competitive racing for the Tourminator (yeah...) might make this tour more interesting in that aspect. :p
How does he stay on the bike with only the one testicle for gripping?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 16, 2009, 03:34:19 PM
How does he stay on the bike with only the one testicle for gripping?
He has a fake nut for balance.
Thor! :uffda: :frog: :punk:
So finally we get a race. Contador is very, very strong and Armstrong not so much.
Interesting finish. Wiggins has really surprised me and Astana has only one captain now. Also, it's wonderful to know that the Schlecks and Contador can continue this battle many years to come.
Hmm.. is it too much to ask for a little excitement in this year's tour? It seems to be only the Schlecks that are willing to attack, and they can't lose Contador.. or Klöden for that matter.
What a stage! Seeing the Schleck brothers cross that finish line was fantastic, great race.
Quote from: Liep on July 22, 2009, 10:36:56 AM
What a stage! Seeing the Schleck brothers cross that finish line was fantastic, great race.
:yes:
I was only able to catch part of it, but yeah.
How about some pics of the hotties that hand out the flowers at the end of each stage? :)
Surprise! Contador is doped.
Says Greg Lemond. Apparently he has calculated how much oxygen volume Contador's lungs had to be able to handle during the time trial yesterday and concluded that it was much higher than that of Festina's druglords of the 90's. Go figure.
I want Contador to fall & break something. Damn it.
So Mont Ventoux was another let down. Only Andy really had the power to try and attack, sadly Frank seemed to have an off day. Armstrong defended his podium position very nicely, but boy that's unlike him to pull a Drillo.
Also, I feel sad for Tony Martin that he lost to Garete who didn't take a lead all the last way up but attacked at the end.
ROFL
They just played the Danish national anthem for Contador
Fuglsang will be interesting to follow during the Vuelta, a new Riis? :w00t:
Anyone catch 60 minutes?
Turns out it wasn't an ev0l conspiracy by those fucking frogs, but hero livestrong was doped all along.
Shocker.
Did anyone ever believe he wasn't doped?
Quote from: Liep on May 25, 2011, 01:44:14 AM
Did anyone ever believe he wasn't doped?
No one sane.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc02.deviantart.net%2Ffs70%2Ff%2F2011%2F139%2F9%2F7%2Fbad_pun_by_rufftoon-d3gr2dh.jpg&hash=325de19473dc2e1456d0499143eee73c19585a50)
stupid.
Quote from: Zoupa on May 25, 2011, 12:42:53 AM
Anyone catch 60 minutes?
Turns out it wasn't an ev0l conspiracy by those fucking frogs, but hero livestrong was doped all along.
Shocker.
You mean like all the other athletes?
It's bicyle racing, if they aren't on dope, they aren't trying hard enough.
Quote from: Zoupa on May 25, 2011, 12:42:53 AM
Anyone catch 60 minutes?
Turns out it wasn't an ev0l conspiracy by those fucking frogs, but hero livestrong was doped all along.
Shocker.
60 Minutes? What's next, referencing articles in USA Today?
Quote from: Zoupa on May 25, 2011, 12:42:53 AM
Anyone catch 60 minutes?
Turns out it wasn't an ev0l conspiracy by those fucking frogs, but hero livestrong was doped all along.
Shocker.
Did you really find that report compelling or convincing, at least, any more so than the numerous other stories that have surfaced over the years?
They all, including this one, basically amount to some person saying they know that Armstrong took drugs, but never any actual evidence beyond hearsay.
I don't really know one way or the other, just don't really see what the latest story has that all the other ones do not to make you decide that THIS is the convincing evidence...
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2011, 07:31:46 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 25, 2011, 12:42:53 AM
Anyone catch 60 minutes?
Turns out it wasn't an ev0l conspiracy by those fucking frogs, but hero livestrong was doped all along.
Shocker.
Did you really find that report compelling or convincing, at least, any more so than the numerous other stories that have surfaced over the years?
They all, including this one, basically amount to some person saying they know that Armstrong took drugs, but never any actual evidence beyond hearsay.
I don't really know one way or the other, just don't really see what the latest story has that all the other ones do not to make you decide that THIS is the convincing evidence...
This is not the convincing evidence to me, since I always thought he was a lying piece of shit.
Do you think he was doping?
I wouldn't trust 60 Minutes. Any time I've seen a piece from them on the subject I know a lot about, I inevitably find that they
1) Have limited knowledge of the facts, sometimes very limited.
2) Definitely have a strong agenda to promote.
3) Pick facts and interview bits selectively to drive that agenda home.
Of course, if they do a piece on the color of the sky, or whether Armstrong doped, they'd probably get it right, simply because it's nearly impossible to get wrong, but it's not like them doing a piece means anything at all.
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2011, 07:31:46 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 25, 2011, 12:42:53 AM
Anyone catch 60 minutes?
Turns out it wasn't an ev0l conspiracy by those fucking frogs, but hero livestrong was doped all along.
Shocker.
Did you really find that report compelling or convincing, at least, any more so than the numerous other stories that have surfaced over the years?
They all, including this one, basically amount to some person saying they know that Armstrong took drugs, but never any actual evidence beyond hearsay.
I don't really know one way or the other, just don't really see what the latest story has that all the other ones do not to make you decide that THIS is the convincing evidence...
I don't think that's hearsay. If Landis says that he heard Lemond talking about Armstrong doping, that's hearsay. If Landis say that he doped in the same van with Armstrong, that's actual witness testimony. Of course, the problem is that pretty much every witness will be far from perfectly reliable, since they would all have a history of doping themselves and then lying about it for a long time.
OK, hearsay was not the correct word, but basically just some "he said, she said".
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2011, 01:39:08 PM
OK, hearsay was not the correct word, but basically just some "he said, she said".
With the exception of a few idiots who cannot take the very simple work to cover their steps that is all we are ever going to have for most dopers these days.
Why all the Armstrong hate? What makes him worse than the other cyclists?
Quote from: Neil on May 25, 2011, 01:58:11 PM
Why all the Armstrong hate? What makes him worse than the other cyclists?
He's American. The French can't stand that.
Quote from: Neil on May 25, 2011, 01:58:11 PM
Why all the Armstrong hate? What makes him worse than the other cyclists?
Basically this: while other cyclists do drugs but shut up about it, he proclaimed several times he's always been as clean as a white sheet.
L.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 25, 2011, 03:57:09 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 25, 2011, 01:58:11 PM
Why all the Armstrong hate? What makes him worse than the other cyclists?
Basically this: while other cyclists do drugs but shut up about it, he proclaimed several times he's always been as clean as a white sheet.
L.
So other cyclists when asked say what?
The reality is that he gets a lot of crap because he is
1. Really fucking good, and
2. American.
I might have the order mixed up though.
And this is true whether he is doped or not.
there's a difference between being quiet about assuming drugs and trumpeting your cleanness at every occasion, this behavior is what makes people angry about him
Not to offend, but no one gives a fuck if he's american or not, a doped cyclist is a doped cyclist anyway.
L.
It's natural for someone claiming to be a saint to be criticized more harshly for committing sins.
Quote from: Zoupa on May 25, 2011, 11:44:42 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2011, 07:31:46 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 25, 2011, 12:42:53 AM
Anyone catch 60 minutes?
Turns out it wasn't an ev0l conspiracy by those fucking frogs, but hero livestrong was doped all along.
Shocker.
Did you really find that report compelling or convincing, at least, any more so than the numerous other stories that have surfaced over the years?
They all, including this one, basically amount to some person saying they know that Armstrong took drugs, but never any actual evidence beyond hearsay.
I don't really know one way or the other, just don't really see what the latest story has that all the other ones do not to make you decide that THIS is the convincing evidence...
This is not the convincing evidence to me, since I always thought he was a lying piece of shit.
Do you think he was doping?
Even if he was lying about this, he's raised $70 million for Cancer research. Lets not tar him with an overly broad brush.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 25, 2011, 04:57:22 PMNot to offend, but no one gives a fuck if he's american or not, a doped cyclist is a doped cyclist anyway.
Don't bother. Each time the topic came up on Languish, I brought up the fact that it had nothing to do with his American-ness, quoted early French articles who were widely enthusiastic about Armstrong, recounted my experience as a spectator on the side of the Mont Ventoux, but somehow, this spin about USA-hating cycles fan ( :huh:) seems much more comfortable.
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 25, 2011, 11:07:30 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on May 25, 2011, 04:57:22 PMNot to offend, but no one gives a fuck if he's american or not, a doped cyclist is a doped cyclist anyway.
Don't bother. Each time the topic came up on Languish, I brought up the fact that it had nothing to do with his American-ness, quoted early French articles who were widely enthusiastic about Armstrong, recounted my experience as a spectator on the side of the Mont Ventoux, but somehow, this spin about USA-hating cycles fan ( :huh:) seems much more comfortable.
More a matter of the "spin" about how the problem is that he won't admit it is what makes him so objectionable is so implausible. And the issue is about why people who do in fact hate him, hate him - pointing out that there are Euroes who do not hate him doesn't really refute the reasons for why those who do hold in such special contempt.
I mean really - like he goes around "trumpeting" how clean he is - what BS. He gets asked constantly, I imagine, and what is he supposed to say? "Yes, I am totally doped!"
That is such an obviously false reason to bag on the guy that it seems pretty obvious;y something else. NOT THAT THERE IS ANY ANTI-AMERICANISM IN EUROPE OF COURSE! Gosh no.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 25, 2011, 04:57:22 PM
there's a difference between being quiet about assuming drugs and trumpeting your cleanness at every occasion, this behavior is what makes people angry about him
L.
Every occasion? Really?
So if I can just find one occasion where he doesn't trumpet how clean he is, what will your fall back reason for hating him be?
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2011, 11:44:36 PMThat is such an obviously false reason to bag on the guy that it seems pretty obvious;y something else. NOT THAT THERE IS ANY ANTI-AMERICANISM IN EUROPE OF COURSE! Gosh no.
I am sure you detected it through your careful reading of the French press.
Oex, Berkut is trolling ;)
Ca l'amuse de voir combien de poissons il peut attraper avec ses commentaires. Laisse béton.
Another question is, when was Armstrong started to be hated? He did win the race 7 times in a row. People tend to start hating people who stink up the show year after year, like Jimmy Johnson in NASCAR now.
Are there really examples of people who admit to doping before they race or during?
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2011, 04:41:25 PM
The reality is that he gets a lot of crap because he is
1. Really fucking good, and
2. American.
I might have the order mixed up though.
And this is true whether he is doped or not.
Not really no. If someone use illegal performance enhancing drugs, they are cheating. If they are cheating, they cannot ever be considered "really fucking good", regardless of their nationality. A cheat is a cheat.
Problem is, they were all using doping, so he was still pretty fucking good compared to the rest of the cheaters.
Quote from: Liep on May 26, 2011, 05:07:49 AM
Problem is, they were all using doping, so he was still pretty fucking good compared to the rest of the cheaters.
He managed to score better drugs than the others, so he is better than them? Is this how people rank athetes these days?
And no, I dont thing
everyone in that sport is on drugs.
Quote from: Bluebook on May 26, 2011, 05:19:04 AM
And no, I dont thing everyone in that sport is on drugs.
:yeahright:
Quote from: Bluebook on May 26, 2011, 05:19:04 AM
Quote from: Liep on May 26, 2011, 05:07:49 AM
Problem is, they were all using doping, so he was still pretty fucking good compared to the rest of the cheaters.
He managed to score better drugs than the others, so he is better than them? Is this how people rank athetes these days?
And no, I dont thing everyone in that sport is on drugs.
But why have you decided to single out Armstrong as being on them rather than others?
It seems to me like the entire sport is so riddled with drugs that it is hard to care about the sport in general. But getting all bent out of shape over one particular rider, and then claiming that it is just complete coincidence that said rider happens to be the dominant athlete in the sport, and really, you are mad at him not because he is using drugs (for which there isn't anymore conclusive evidence that there is for anyone else, btw), but because he *says* he is NOT using drugs...yeah, that doesn't pass the smell test. In fact, it makes no fucking sense at all.
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 25, 2011, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2011, 11:44:36 PMThat is such an obviously false reason to bag on the guy that it seems pretty obvious;y something else. NOT THAT THERE IS ANY ANTI-AMERICANISM IN EUROPE OF COURSE! Gosh no.
I am sure you detected it through your careful reading of the French press.
You don't have to read the French press to figure out that claims that Armstrong is hated because he doesn't admit to using drugs sound like bullshit. They sound like bullshit even when you guys say it right here on languish in english. Nor does one have to read the French press to notice that there is plenty of anti-Americanism in Europe in general.
Since it is clear that the claimed reason to hate him is completely bullshit, then I am sticking with his not being liked because he is really fucking good and an American. At least for those who get all frothing over him - obviously if you do like Armstrong, or rather don't really care one way about him or the other, then it doesn't apply to you.
But it does leave the question about why he is so hated by so many, when other than his dominance combined with his nationality, he is not exceptional.
Berkut, while I agree with most of your arguments. The French don't hate Armstrong because he's a Yank. They hate him because he's not French.
They hate him because he wins, something that is anathema to the French.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 26, 2011, 07:50:43 AM
Berkut, while I agree with most of your arguments. The French don't hate Armstrong because he's a Yank. They hate him because he's not French.
I could see that - he is the "other", and it is always pleasing to despise the other, if you cannot love him.
Personally, Lance Armstrong could drive his bike of a cliff tomorrow and I wouldn't care - cycling seems like such a fake sport with all the drugs anyway. Even if Armstrong is as lily clean as Oex and Zoup hate him for, the sport in general is so dominated by the allegations that I cannot possibly care about it.
The most interesting thing about professional cycling is watching people get all worked up over Armstrong, actually. Hundreds of professional cyclers out there, and he gets 90% of the press. Must really piss off the other cyclers. Doesn't anyone want to know how their enhancement programs are coming along too?
But if it wasn't for Languish, I honestly would never think about professional cycling more than about 15 minutes a year.
Hate is a pretty strong word dude. I wouldn't really care if he drove off a cliff tomorrow either.
I'm just gonna get a chuckle when they take his titles away. Because he was so dominant, because he's american? Not really, although he played that card alright. Mostly, folks will have a :nelson: moment because dude is an asshole.
They take your titles away for doping? How can they justify that in a sport where everyone is doped to the gills?
Quote from: Neil on May 26, 2011, 04:36:09 PM
They take your titles away for doping? How can they justify that in a sport where everyone is doped to the gills?
They took Floyd Landis' away.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 26, 2011, 07:54:49 AM
They hate him because he wins, something that is anathema to the French.
Especially in the Tour de France recently. Don't fuck with Greg LeMond people he will curse your whole country.
Quote from: Valmy on May 26, 2011, 04:53:34 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 26, 2011, 04:36:09 PM
They take your titles away for doping? How can they justify that in a sport where everyone is doped to the gills?
They took Floyd Landis' away.
I don't know who that is. Still, if they wanted to really enforce that sort of thing, they'd end up giving the title to someone who came in 145th, because everyone ahead of him was roided as much as they could afford.
Quote from: Valmy on May 26, 2011, 04:53:34 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 26, 2011, 04:36:09 PM
They take your titles away for doping? How can they justify that in a sport where everyone is doped to the gills?
They took Floyd Landis' away.
Didn't Landis fail a drug test during the race though? If so that would be different than retroactively taking a title away.