http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cereal-cafe-owner-tells-of-witch-hunt-that-pelted-windows-with-cereal-and-paint-during-east-london-a2956501.html
QuoteAnti-gentrification demonstrators cited cafe as symbol of inequality
The owners of Shoreditch's cereal café this evening said they were attacked by an "angry mob" as anti-gentrification protesters threw paint and cereal at their windows.
Alan Keery, who runs the Cereal Killer café with his twin brother Gary, told the Standard customers had barricaded the door closed with chairs as the "f*** parade" demo began throwing paint at the windows.
"There were children there – they were terrified," he said. "The staff were absolutely terrified. It was an angry mob throwing paint at the windows. They had torches and pigs' heads.
"There were people shouting about gentrification and taking back east London.
"They'd brought cereal and they were throwing it at the shop.
"I think it's an absolute joke, a bunch of people attacking us. We're a small business. There's other big chain places around Shoreditch – me and my brother started a business out of absolutely nothing and we're trying to grow it.
"We're being targeted as the poster boys of gentrification and that's not our fault.
"London as a city is growing and Shoreditch is no different. It's just a growing city – people are going to open businesses and try things and try to better themselves.
"I can't agree with what they're doing, the way they are dealing with gentrification. It feels like it's been taken back to the Dark Ages – an angry mob with fire – it's a bit of a witch hunt. There's paint thrown at the front and they tried to break the windows.
"They were trying to bash the door down – the customers had to barricade the door.
"We get a bit of hate on Twitter but never anything like this."
The café has been dogged by controversy since opening. The brothers were last year forced to defend their prices after a Channel 4 interviewer asked whether local people could afford £3.20 for a single bowl.
A Twitter account that appeared to be live-tweeting the protest shared a picture of the café with the words: "Cereal cafe. £5 for cereal when people are starving. F*** gentrification.
"F*** cutesy boutiques and coffee shops. Homes for everyone."
Pictures showed the word "scum" scrawled on a shop window in black marker.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.standard.co.uk%2Fs3fs-public%2Fstyles%2Fstory_medium%2Fpublic%2Fthumbnails%2Fimage%2F2015%2F09%2F26%2F22%2FCerealKiller2609b.jpg&hash=3a564e71f0c920148132bafcdfec29bf05b7beb4)
Demonstration: The 'f*** protest' outside Shoreditch High Street station this evening
I don't think it's a witch hunt, the guys are clearly guilty. It's more mob justice.
Ewe reap what ewe sew.
Quote from: The Brain on September 27, 2015, 03:33:19 AM
I don't think it's a witch hunt, the guys are clearly guilty. It's more mob justice.
:D
Why cereal? :huh:
What's a cereal cafe? Do they sell cornflakes or what?
It does make one wonder that if wealth is getting concentrated into fewer and fewer hands and more and more of us are being pushed down into the unwashed masses where all these gentry are coming from who are moving in on everybody's territory.
Quote from: Zanza on September 27, 2015, 11:38:07 AM
What's a cereal cafe? Do they sell cornflakes or what?
:huh:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2014%2F12%2F13%2F1418503377485%2FCereal-Killer-cafe-London-010.jpg&hash=05f629c59be03a51c6767a8d48c51d5a41d233c4)
At least they're not hipsters.
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: Zanza on September 27, 2015, 11:38:07 AM
What's a cereal cafe? Do they sell cornflakes or what?
:huh:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2014%2F12%2F13%2F1418503377485%2FCereal-Killer-cafe-London-010.jpg&hash=05f629c59be03a51c6767a8d48c51d5a41d233c4)
I see. I wasn't aware that such a thing exists. If they would add Müsli to their offering, I might go there for breakfast.
I can understand overpaying for somebody to prepare a meal for you, but this can only appeal to people dedicated to avoiding grocery shopping at all costs.
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2015, 12:07:54 PM
It does make one wonder that if wealth is getting concentrated into fewer and fewer hands and more and more of us are being pushed down into the unwashed masses where all these gentry are coming from who are moving in on everybody's territory.
People owning several flats, I suppose. Apparently, a lot of highest value flats in centres of cities like NY or London stay empty most of the year these days, because they owners use them only rarely.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
I can understand overpaying for somebody to prepare a meal for you, but this can only appeal to people dedicated to avoiding grocery shopping at all costs.
I can see a couple benefits. Variety, company, and a safe haven where gentrifying hipsters don't have to watch their backs or what they say or how they say it.
Does the UK not make any cereal?
There's a Korean brand on the shelf. "Oreo" something. Can't make out the last character.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
I can understand overpaying for somebody to prepare a meal for you, but this can only appeal to people dedicated to avoiding grocery shopping at all costs.
Or people who occasionally want a certain kind of cereal but don't want to buy a whole box of it that goes to waste after one or two servings.
Having seen the pic and understood the "concept" of the restaurant, I now fully support the attackers.
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
I can understand overpaying for somebody to prepare a meal for you, but this can only appeal to people dedicated to avoiding grocery shopping at all costs.
Or people who occasionally want a certain kind of cereal but don't want to buy a whole box of it that goes to waste after one or two servings.
Those boxes last a year and are cheaper than the bowl you get at the cafe.
Stupidest protest ever. Typical of this kind of xenophobic Britain first alike knob heads.
It is a silly cafe. I would never go there. But some people are, so fair play to the owners for managing to make a business out of something like this.
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
Stupidest protest ever. Typical of this kind of xenophobic Britain first alike knob heads.
:huh:
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
I can understand overpaying for somebody to prepare a meal for you, but this can only appeal to people dedicated to avoiding grocery shopping at all costs.
Or people who occasionally want a certain kind of cereal but don't want to buy a whole box of it that goes to waste after one or two servings.
A box of cereal costs about 2 quid at Tesco. These shitheads are selling one bowl of it for 5 quid.
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2015, 01:37:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
I can understand overpaying for somebody to prepare a meal for you, but this can only appeal to people dedicated to avoiding grocery shopping at all costs.
Or people who occasionally want a certain kind of cereal but don't want to buy a whole box of it that goes to waste after one or two servings.
A box of cereal costs about 2 quid at Tesco. These shitheads are selling one bowl of it for 5 quid.
In that case it's an idiot tax.
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2015, 01:37:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
I can understand overpaying for somebody to prepare a meal for you, but this can only appeal to people dedicated to avoiding grocery shopping at all costs.
Or people who occasionally want a certain kind of cereal but don't want to buy a whole box of it that goes to waste after one or two servings.
A box of cereal costs about 2 quid at Tesco. These shitheads are selling one bowl of it for 5 quid.
In that case it's an idiot tax.
Maybe things are different in Poland - but I find that things in cafes are more expensive than if I bought them in 'bulk' at a grocery store.
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2015, 01:37:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
I can understand overpaying for somebody to prepare a meal for you, but this can only appeal to people dedicated to avoiding grocery shopping at all costs.
Or people who occasionally want a certain kind of cereal but don't want to buy a whole box of it that goes to waste after one or two servings.
A box of cereal costs about 2 quid at Tesco. These shitheads are selling one bowl of it for 5 quid.
In that case it's an idiot tax.
Maybe things are different in Poland - but I find that things in cafes are more expensive than if I bought them in 'bulk' at a grocery store.
I've noticed this too. I thought I was the only one! :hug:
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2015, 01:37:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
I can understand overpaying for somebody to prepare a meal for you, but this can only appeal to people dedicated to avoiding grocery shopping at all costs.
Or people who occasionally want a certain kind of cereal but don't want to buy a whole box of it that goes to waste after one or two servings.
A box of cereal costs about 2 quid at Tesco. These shitheads are selling one bowl of it for 5 quid.
In that case it's an idiot tax.
Maybe things are different in Poland - but I find that things in cafes are more expensive than if I bought them in 'bulk' at a grocery store.
Yes, but 5 pounds for a bowl of cereal seems excessive.
Keeps the poors out.
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 02:16:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2015, 01:37:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
I can understand overpaying for somebody to prepare a meal for you, but this can only appeal to people dedicated to avoiding grocery shopping at all costs.
Or people who occasionally want a certain kind of cereal but don't want to buy a whole box of it that goes to waste after one or two servings.
A box of cereal costs about 2 quid at Tesco. These shitheads are selling one bowl of it for 5 quid.
In that case it's an idiot tax.
Maybe things are different in Poland - but I find that things in cafes are more expensive than if I bought them in 'bulk' at a grocery store.
Yes, but 5 pounds for a bowl of cereal seems excessive.
Well here are the actual prices:
AMERICAN CEREALS S-£3 M-£3.7 L-£4.4
BRITISH CEREALS S-£2.5 M-£3 L-£3.5
GLOBAL CEREALS S-£3 M-£3.7 L-£4.4
Not sure how they would be expected to stay in business if they charged less in central London.
Well, in Central London there may be enough people willing to pay those prices. I still find them slightly insane. :P
I don't think it is excessive at all. Or at least no more excessive than your standard restaurant. A local establishment offers a bowl of oatmeal for 2.99 and my local Walmart will sell me an entire container of oatmeal for 3.99. (which contains god knows how many bowls - I've never been able to finish one)
Plus this cereal killer place has bowl sizes, milk and toppings. If nothing else, you're paying a small premium for not having to need to stock the entire box, not buy an entire container of milk, and not have to purchase/prepare any toppings like 'nananas, strawberries, blueberries, etc. A small container of blueberries in the US can run you as much as 5.00.
If you don't agree with the concept, why not just eat there?
If this ever happened in America, the owner would have mowed the entire crowd down with an automatic weapon and been praised for doing so.
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2015, 02:24:38 PM
Well, in Central London there may be enough people willing to pay those prices. I still find them slightly insane. :P
A grande chai latte in central London costs like 3 pound 35 and that's not even a meal. :D
Quote from: Jaron on September 27, 2015, 02:26:14 PM
A small container of blueberries in the US can run you as much as 5.00.
Can you check with DG on pricing for a large container?
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 02:29:38 PM
Quote from: Jaron on September 27, 2015, 02:26:14 PM
A small container of blueberries in the US can run you as much as 5.00.
Can you check with DG on pricing for a large container?
:lmfao:
Quote from: Jaron on September 27, 2015, 02:26:14 PM
A small container of blueberries in the US can run you as much as 5.00.
A single soul cried out in terror!
QuoteIf you don't agree with the concept, why not just eat there?
How to put this... Poors aren't very bright.
Quote from: The Brain on September 27, 2015, 02:32:15 PM
How to put this... Poors aren't very bright.
Well that was clear from the fact that they are fighting gentrification in the already highly gentrified Shoreditch. :D
Quite a useful place to get a quick breakfast if one didn't make it back home the previous night.
I don't get the "an entire packet of cereal costs less than £3" argument; on that basis there should be no places selling cups of coffee at all since a half-pound of excellent freshly ground coffee costs about the same as one cup of Starbucks :hmm:
The rabble causing the disturbance are a bunch called Class War btw. I had a glance at their website and they have a "Women's Death Brigade" :lmfao:
They may have thought that Citizen Smith was a documentary :P
Quote from: Zanza on September 27, 2015, 01:02:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: Zanza on September 27, 2015, 11:38:07 AM
What's a cereal cafe? Do they sell cornflakes or what?
:huh:
I see. I wasn't aware that such a thing exists. If they would add Müsli to their offering, I might go there for breakfast.
for the italian branch you might call it müslini
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 27, 2015, 03:43:56 PM
The rabble causing the disturbance are a bunch called Class War btw. I had a glance at their website and they have a "Women's Death Brigade" :lmfao:
I'm curious whether they are true locals or university tossers that got in before the place started gentrifying.
Based on my very limited knowledge of Cockneys (basically a few gangster movies) they don't seem like the kind of folk to start up an organization called Class War with an auxiliary Women's Death Brigade.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 27, 2015, 03:43:56 PM
The rabble causing the disturbance are a bunch called Class War btw. I had a glance at their website and they have a "Women's Death Brigade" :lmfao:
They may have thought that Citizen Smith was a documentary :P
OMG, I saw them...'perform'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SOPA-X_w5Y
I guess truly a case of deciding what hipsters you want to support in this instance. Class War does have a transvestite spokesperson.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F82617000%2Fjpg%2F_82617620_82617619.jpg&hash=e77a8f975115d53d02798c15b41bf132eb2b15aa)
:lol:
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 04:00:24 PMI guess truly a case of deciding what hipsters you want to support in this instance.
How about none? :P
I'm definitely supporting the Captain Crunch Crew. They've done nothing wrong and the other group has wank written all over them.
Maybe it was just a protest by surrealists?
Or were they cereal offenders?
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 27, 2015, 03:43:56 PM
The rabble causing the disturbance are a bunch called Class War btw. I had a glance at their website and they have a "Women's Death Brigade" :lmfao:
They may have thought that Citizen Smith was a documentary :P
OMG, I saw them...'perform'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SOPA-X_w5Y
I guess truly a case of deciding what hipsters you want to support in this instance. Class War does have a transvestite spokesperson.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F82617000%2Fjpg%2F_82617620_82617619.jpg&hash=e77a8f975115d53d02798c15b41bf132eb2b15aa)
looks like a member of a regular british stagparty to me
Quote from: mongers on September 27, 2015, 04:16:28 PM
Maybe it was just a protest by surrealists?
Or were they cereal offenders?
:frusty:
When I saw the pic of the shipowners I started to support the protesters.
Then I saw the spokesperson for the protesters.
Quote from: Barrister on September 27, 2015, 04:26:06 PM
When I saw the pic of the shipowners I started to support the protesters.
Then I saw the spokesperson for the protesters.
I'm all for beards and gender non-conformity...though not in these instances. -_-
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 27, 2015, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 27, 2015, 03:43:56 PM
The rabble causing the disturbance are a bunch called Class War btw. I had a glance at their website and they have a "Women's Death Brigade" :lmfao:
They may have thought that Citizen Smith was a documentary :P
OMG, I saw them...'perform'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SOPA-X_w5Y
I guess truly a case of deciding what hipsters you want to support in this instance. Class War does have a transvestite spokesperson.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F82617000%2Fjpg%2F_82617620_82617619.jpg&hash=e77a8f975115d53d02798c15b41bf132eb2b15aa)
looks like a member of a regular british stagparty to me
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic2.demotix.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2Fa_scale_large%2F7300-0%2Fphotos%2F1428807913-class-war-election-candidate-adam-clifford-canvasses-in-soho_7327240.jpg&hash=d1340bd3b600f008f84e2a32f4d11fe26342b6a3)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic3.demotix.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2Fa_scale_large%2F7400-7%2Fphotos%2F1430350574-class-war-election-candidate-canvasses-buckingham-palace-staff_7474857.jpg&hash=df8c1c8bbfb87c1998a1e87b854ebe0225fdcae3)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmylondondiary.co.uk%2F2015%2F06%2F20%2F20150620-d294.jpgg&hash=676f84f9c70aa50a89406a3fe939a7d153c2dbde)
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:36:57 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
Stupidest protest ever. Typical of this kind of xenophobic Britain first alike knob heads.
:huh:
Britain first- along with the English defence league one of the fascist groups du jour.
I don't see the difference between this and a group of skinheads attacking a Pakistani shop.
garbon has played us like a fiddle. :hmm:
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 04:42:54 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:36:57 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
Stupidest protest ever. Typical of this kind of xenophobic Britain first alike knob heads.
:huh:
Britain first- along with the English defence league one of the fascist groups du jour.
I don't see the difference between this and a group of skinheads attacking a Pakistani shop.
Probably a mistake given their 'policies'
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classwarparty.org.uk%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2Fcw-policies.png&hash=51c589e8aa2e9f1162b79fa8dcdb19fdd7c8a31a)
The description wanton self-publicist come to mind.
They look like something out of Derek Jarman's movie. :D
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 04:46:43 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 04:42:54 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:36:57 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
Stupidest protest ever. Typical of this kind of xenophobic Britain first alike knob heads.
:huh:
Britain first- along with the English defence league one of the fascist groups du jour.
I don't see the difference between this and a group of skinheads attacking a Pakistani shop.
Probably a mistake given their 'policies'
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww..org.uk%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2Fcw-policies.png&hash=f1b7c37b4f6c967209d4b68e114bf6cb3adcf869)
Actions speak louder than words.
Tyr is dumbing down the thread again.
Socialism of the 21st century = having capitalism with a bit more of a welfare state and more taxes. How radical and revolutionary of them. Well I guess you get your privately funded school closed so there is that.
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 04:48:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 04:46:43 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 04:42:54 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2015, 01:36:57 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
Stupidest protest ever. Typical of this kind of xenophobic Britain first alike knob heads.
:huh:
Britain first- along with the English defence league one of the fascist groups du jour.
I don't see the difference between this and a group of skinheads attacking a Pakistani shop.
Probably a mistake given their 'policies'
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww..org.uk%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2Fcw-policies.png&hash=f1b7c37b4f6c967209d4b68e114bf6cb3adcf869)
Actions speak louder than words.
Actions like say, performing in a gay bar? :P
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 04:51:23 PM
Actions like say, performing in a gay bar? :P
Were the gays inspired by their weaksauce platform :P
Slightly inconvenience capitalism!
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 04:42:54 PM
Britain first- along with the English defence league one of the fascist groups du jour.
I don't see the difference between this and a group of skinheads attacking a Pakistani shop.
The most obvious difference is everyone is white, and by the looks of it, born in England.
Most people when they read xenophobe think of fear of the foreigner.
Another difference is The Transvestite Suicide Squad is very clearly coming from the left of the political spectrum. These people are your allies.
Quote from: mongers on September 27, 2015, 04:16:28 PM
Maybe it was just a protest by surrealists?
Or were they cereal offenders?
Or Müsli radicals.
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 04:51:23 PM
link=topic=13323.msg911484#msg911484 date=1443390530quote author=garbon link=topic=13323.msg911481#msg911481 date=1443390403]
[
Actions like say, performing in a gay bar? :P
Homosexuality isn't a big deal for the far right. In fact they tend to find themselves with an awkwardly pro gay position due to the Muslims being so anti gay.
But what I meant was think about it seriously.
You've an angry rabble attacking the little guy. A small shop owned by two working class Irish brothers. Why? Because they are outsiders. They are on the visible front lines of the demographic changes happening in the area. They've absolutely nothing to do with the big picture. They're just the helpless innocent guys trying to make a bit of money for themselves.
I honestly fail to see how this is different to when neo nazis attack a small asian owned shop.
Surely the proper thing to do for angry leftists would be to attack an up market chain shop or the property developers or policy makers contributing to this change. Not the little guy just because he isn't from around here.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 27, 2015, 04:55:30 PMAnother difference is The Transvestite Suicide Squad is very clearly coming from the left of the political spectrum. These people are your allies.
i don't think it's fair to call this group allies of the left. i wouldn't consider the tea party an ally of the right. they're all extremists - they're destructive and harmful to their side of the spectrum.
Is there any kind of for-profit retail place that doesn't mark up the price of its goods? It is for consumers to say if the price is too high. If the price is indeed too high, they'll go out of business.
Quote from: Monoriu on September 27, 2015, 06:02:32 PM
Is there any kind of for-profit retail place that doesn't mark up the price of its goods? It is for consumers to say if the price is too high. If the price is indeed too high, they'll go out of business.
Does not mean we cannot mock and deride the business and the customers. One born every minute and all that. Not that I am necessarily talking about this bar, I don't know what culinary glories they were with those cereals.
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2015, 06:04:27 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on September 27, 2015, 06:02:32 PM
Is there any kind of for-profit retail place that doesn't mark up the price of its goods? It is for consumers to say if the price is too high. If the price is indeed too high, they'll go out of business.
Does not mean we cannot mock and deride the business and the customers. One born every minute and all that. Not that I am necessarily talking about this bar, I don't know what culinary glories they were with those cereals.
I have never heard of a cereal cafe prior to this thread. I certainly won't go to this kind of place, but I can see the value to people who like cereals and want to try out different flavours.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 27, 2015, 04:15:19 PM
I'm definitely supporting the Captain Crunch Crew. They've done nothing wrong and the other group has wank written all over them.
They should go out of business because their concept is dumb.
That doesn't mean I support the vandals, who should be arrested.
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 05:01:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 04:51:23 PM
link=topic=13323.msg911484#msg911484 date=1443390530quote author=garbon link=topic=13323.msg911481#msg911481 date=1443390403]
[
Actions like say, performing in a gay bar? :P
Homosexuality isn't a big deal for the far right. In fact they tend to find themselves with an awkwardly pro gay position due to the Muslims being so anti gay.
But what I meant was think about it seriously.
You've an angry rabble attacking the little guy. A small shop owned by two working class Irish brothers. Why? Because they are outsiders. They are on the visible front lines of the demographic changes happening in the area. They've absolutely nothing to do with the big picture. They're just the helpless innocent guys trying to make a bit of money for themselves.
I honestly fail to see how this is different to when neo nazis attack a small asian owned shop.
Surely the proper thing to do for angry leftists would be to attack an up market chain shop or the property developers or policy makers contributing to this change. Not the little guy just because he isn't from around here.
You have a bizarre view of leftism. The ideological tone doesn't change because of the "size" of the victim. It's the motive that counts. If a mob murders a man because he is real estate mogul and they are protesting his "economic crimes", I'd say they are part of your loopy European left. If the man who is murdered also happens to be a Jamaican immigrant that doesn't automatically make it a Neo-Nazi act. Now, if the mob kills him because he's a filthy wog threatening the racial purity of the community I'd say it was a Neo-Nazi thing
Also Anti-gentrification is abhorrent. It's the romanticism of poverty and slums.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2015, 07:29:00 PM
Also Anti-gentrification is abhorrent. It's the romanticism of poverty and slums.
Yeah, I don't get this. Heaven forbid we try to redevelop a section of town and make it safe and pleasant.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2015, 07:29:00 PM
Also Anti-gentrification is abhorrent. It's the romanticism of poverty and slums.
I think that somehow people decouple the price of housing from how safe and clean it is. Yes, dangerous places are frequently cheaper, removing the danger means prices will go up. The problem isn't the cost, it's your inability to earn more to pay for it (which may or may not be your fault).
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 27, 2015, 03:53:11 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 27, 2015, 03:43:56 PM
The rabble causing the disturbance are a bunch called Class War btw. I had a glance at their website and they have a "Women's Death Brigade" :lmfao:
I'm curious whether they are true locals or university tossers that got in before the place started gentrifying.
Based on my very limited knowledge of Cockneys (basically a few gangster movies) they don't seem like the kind of folk to start up an organization called Class War with an auxiliary Women's Death Brigade.
Yes, they are pretty pragmatic people. Most of them have gravitated from the old East End in a NE direction over the past 60 years, moving to suburbs like Chingford or into Essex. You may have heard jokes and putdowns about Essex people, these can be amusing but are based on snobbery - these dreadful working-class people have done well for themselves, have above-average incomes, often vote Tory, retain their vulgar ways and are white - the left finds that combination impossible to forgive.
The shopowners are working-class lads from Belfast, but I guess that Irish (maybe they are protestant Irish?) just isn't black enough to engage the sympathies of the bien-pensant left.
Ah, so Essex girls are Cockneys made good?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 28, 2015, 12:47:08 AM
Ah, so Essex girls are Cockneys made good?
Yeah, not rich but have moved from poverty in East London slums to suburban comfort in Essex in two or three generations.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2015, 07:29:00 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2015, 05:01:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2015, 04:51:23 PM
link=topic=13323.msg911484#msg911484 date=1443390530quote author=garbon link=topic=13323.msg911481#msg911481 date=1443390403]
[
Actions like say, performing in a gay bar? :P
Homosexuality isn't a big deal for the far right. In fact they tend to find themselves with an awkwardly pro gay position due to the Muslims being so anti gay.
But what I meant was think about it seriously.
You've an angry rabble attacking the little guy. A small shop owned by two working class Irish brothers. Why? Because they are outsiders. They are on the visible front lines of the demographic changes happening in the area. They've absolutely nothing to do with the big picture. They're just the helpless innocent guys trying to make a bit of money for themselves.
I honestly fail to see how this is different to when neo nazis attack a small asian owned shop.
Surely the proper thing to do for angry leftists would be to attack an up market chain shop or the property developers or policy makers contributing to this change. Not the little guy just because he isn't from around here.
You have a bizarre view of leftism. The ideological tone doesn't change because of the "size" of the victim. It's the motive that counts. If a mob murders a man because he is real estate mogul and they are protesting his "economic crimes", I'd say they are part of your loopy European left. If the man who is murdered also happens to be a Jamaican immigrant that doesn't automatically make it a Neo-Nazi act. Now, if the mob kills him because he's a filthy wog threatening the racial purity of the community I'd say it was a Neo-Nazi thing
Also Anti-gentrification is abhorrent. It's the romanticism of poverty and slums.
However when the entire motive is "you're an outsider changing the demographic makeup of our area"....
Tyr you are 100% right in terms of all of these people being frustrated aggressive losers, essentially the same.
But they did find different ideological justification to take out their frustrations on others.
Quote from: Tyr on September 28, 2015, 01:43:29 AM
However when the entire motive is "you're an outsider changing the demographic makeup of our area"....
Except that the protest doesn't seem have much to do with the identity of the store owners - just that they are running a business than the protesters view as unsavory/part of a trend that prices them (or at least some of them) out of the neighborhood.
While I don't have any sympathy for this protest, there's something legitimate about the following blurb from one of the protesters that is a far cry from the community vs. outsiders that you want to paint this as.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/27/shoreditch-cereal-cafe-targeted-by-anti-gentrification-protesters
QuoteEsther Planas Balduz, 55, an artist who attended the protest after hearing about it on Facebook, said she supported the cause because she was evicted from her home of seven years when her rent doubled last year.
"I've lived in Shoreditch for 17 years and it's appalling what's been going on. Its our fault, artists like me go to these kind of areas, then the architects follow, the developers, the hipsters etc," Balduz said. "The problem is social cleansing. There are no protections for us. The law does not protect us, only the greedy landowners."
Balduz said the protest seemed "more like a punk carnival" and hoped it would open up debate on the issue of gentrification. "Even if a few became a bit aggressive, it was really less aggressive than the masses of drunks I have to cope with every weekend in the area," she said.
As ever we return to the basic problem, in the UK household formation is running at something like 250,000 a year and house building barely exceeds 100,000 units a year. This causes moderate problems in provincial places like Preston but is horrendous in London and the South-East. Lefties can blame gentrification and the right can blame immigration, but the essential problem is insufficient construction.
I used to live in that area back in the late 1970s with a couple of nurses :perv:, my share of the rent was £5 a week. But at the time the cockneys were making their way north-eastwards, the Jews had long gone, the Bangladeshis had not yet arrived and London had a declining population. It is a brilliant area to live in btw, I could never fathom its lack of popularity back then.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 28, 2015, 12:47:08 AM
Ah, so Essex girls are Cockneys made good?
Maybe a generation or two ago. The big migration from the East End to the suburbs and Essex took place between the 60s and 80s (ditto from south-east London to Kent). Much the same as happened in several big US cities.
Quote from: derspiess on September 27, 2015, 08:05:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2015, 07:29:00 PM
Also Anti-gentrification is abhorrent. It's the romanticism of poverty and slums.
Yeah, I don't get this. Heaven forbid we try to redevelop a section of town and make it safe and pleasant.
I.e., raise rents and purchase values so high that poor people can't live there, including the poor people who already do. You don't get this because you don't want to get it.
Anyway, I have no particular opinion on the cereal cafe, although it does fit in with my general anti-cafe animus. I mean, at least $10 for a big-ass bowl of cereal involves some nutritional value. Where did the $11 I spent on fancy bullshit coffee yesterday go? My beleaguered pancreas, mainly.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 28, 2015, 02:18:19 AM
As ever we return to the basic problem, in the UK household formation is running at something like 250,000 a year and house building barely exceeds 100,000 units a year. This causes moderate problems in provincial places like Preston but is horrendous in London and the South-East. Lefties can blame gentrification and the right can blame immigration, but the essential problem is insufficient construction.
Why hasn't the market responded to the demand anf built more?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 28, 2015, 07:34:52 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 28, 2015, 02:18:19 AM
As ever we return to the basic problem, in the UK household formation is running at something like 250,000 a year and house building barely exceeds 100,000 units a year. This causes moderate problems in provincial places like Preston but is horrendous in London and the South-East. Lefties can blame gentrification and the right can blame immigration, but the essential problem is insufficient construction.
Why hasn't the market responded to the demand anf built more?
Too strict building permit laws?
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 28, 2015, 02:18:19 AM
As ever we return to the basic problem, in the UK household formation is running at something like 250,000 a year and house building barely exceeds 100,000 units a year. This causes moderate problems in provincial places like Preston but is horrendous in London and the South-East. Lefties can blame gentrification and the right can blame immigration, but the essential problem is insufficient construction.
I used to live in that area back in the late 1970s with a couple of nurses :perv:, my share of the rent was £5 a week. But at the time the cockneys were making their way north-eastwards, the Jews had long gone, the Bangladeshis had not yet arrived and London had a declining population. It is a brilliant area to live in btw, I could never fathom its lack of popularity back then.
Is there some sort of a "communal flats" programme in the UK, where the municipalities build cheaper flats for rent? I am not talking necessarily about "council flats" for the very poor but more of subsidised flats for lower middle class people and the like.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 28, 2015, 07:34:52 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 28, 2015, 02:18:19 AM
As ever we return to the basic problem, in the UK household formation is running at something like 250,000 a year and house building barely exceeds 100,000 units a year. This causes moderate problems in provincial places like Preston but is horrendous in London and the South-East. Lefties can blame gentrification and the right can blame immigration, but the essential problem is insufficient construction.
Why hasn't the market responded to the demand anf built more?
Who knows? Some blame the green belt (land around big cities which can't be built on), some blame the developers for land banking, others the fact that property in London is seen as a safe haven so that when housing does come on line its bought by Asians and Russians as an investment - they don't even rent the property. The Economist had an article about it recently.
Quote from: Ideologue on September 28, 2015, 05:03:54 AM
Anyway, I have no particular opinion on the cereal cafe, although it does fit in with my general anti-cafe animus. I mean, at least $10 for a big-ass bowl of cereal involves some nutritional value. Where did the $11 I spent on fancy bullshit coffee yesterday go? My beleaguered pancreas, mainly.
Rate is only about 1.5 dollars to £ right now.
Quote from: garbon on September 28, 2015, 07:57:59 AM
Rate is only about 1.5 dollars to £ right now.
Which are you paid in?
poundage
Link to an article on the subject in The Economist :
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21667973-britain-has-one-booming-market-could-do-crash-through-roof
There is one big plus, much of the countryside has been preserved, but apart from that it is a mess.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 28, 2015, 07:34:52 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 28, 2015, 02:18:19 AM
As ever we return to the basic problem, in the UK household formation is running at something like 250,000 a year and house building barely exceeds 100,000 units a year. This causes moderate problems in provincial places like Preston but is horrendous in London and the South-East. Lefties can blame gentrification and the right can blame immigration, but the essential problem is insufficient construction.
Why hasn't the market responded to the demand anf built more?
The demand is much greater than the market's ability to supply (newsflash: land is a limited good), so in the absence of regulation there is really no point in reducing the price.
It is a classic example of a good fulfilling an important social role, where lack of regulation leads to a complete mess.
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2015, 08:43:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 28, 2015, 07:34:52 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 28, 2015, 02:18:19 AM
As ever we return to the basic problem, in the UK household formation is running at something like 250,000 a year and house building barely exceeds 100,000 units a year. This causes moderate problems in provincial places like Preston but is horrendous in London and the South-East. Lefties can blame gentrification and the right can blame immigration, but the essential problem is insufficient construction.
Why hasn't the market responded to the demand anf built more?
The demand is much greater than the market's ability to supply (newsflash: land is a limited good), so in the absence of regulation there is really no point in reducing the price.
It is a classic example of a good fulfilling an important social role, where lack of regulation leads to a complete mess.
Um building is heavily regulated. That is why nothing gets built.
By regulation I meant the requirement to build a given number of affordable flats rather than leaving everything to the most expensive / profitable land development.
This can be achieved in a number of ways, e.g. by doing it the way NYC is doing it, so requiring developers to dedicate a portion of flats to lower rent; or having the local and national governments actively involved in building affordable flats for rent.
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2015, 08:52:05 AM
By regulation I meant the requirement to build a given number of affordable flats rather than leaving everything to the most expensive / profitable land development.
This can be achieved in a number of ways, e.g. by doing it the way NYC is doing it, so requiring developers to dedicate a portion of flats to lower rent; or having the local and national governments actively involved in building affordable flats for rent.
Yes, we've had that for years. Mayoral policy is that at least 35% of units in any development over 10 (I think) units must be affordable. However, there are a number of ways that developers can get past this, generally on the basis of viability.
Iirc London has very stupid requirements re: height of buildings and obstructed views.
Quote from: Ideologue on September 28, 2015, 09:23:14 AM
Iirc London has very stupid requirements re: height of buildings and obstructed views.
Yeah in a city like that you need to build up and down as much as you can.
Quote from: Gups on September 28, 2015, 09:06:32 AM
Yes, we've had that for years. Mayoral policy is that at least 35% of units in any development over 10 (I think) units must be affordable. However, there are a number of ways that developers can get past this, generally on the basis of viability.
Yes, all the major developments have somehow managed to dodge the affordable housing quota.
It has also resulted in the phenomenon of "poor doors" where the wealthy home-owners enter through a lush lobby with a receptionist and the social housing renters have to enter via a back alley behind some urine-soaked bins.
Quote from: Tyr on September 28, 2015, 01:43:29 AM
However when the entire motive is "you're an outsider changing the demographic makeup of our area"....
Okay, when that's the entire motive here, you'll be right. Since it's not, your still wrong. I see white guys protesting other white guys for pushing up property values. It's not even clear if the all the white guys protesting are actually from Shoreditch. What's clear is that they are protesting the gentrification of Shoreditch. Hell, it appears that this is one group of hipsters attacking another.
Quote from: Brazen on September 28, 2015, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: Gups on September 28, 2015, 09:06:32 AM
Yes, we've had that for years. Mayoral policy is that at least 35% of units in any development over 10 (I think) units must be affordable. However, there are a number of ways that developers can get past this, generally on the basis of viability.
Yes, all the major developments have somehow managed to dodge the affordable housing quota.
It has also resulted in the phenomenon of "poor doors" where the wealthy home-owners enter through a lush lobby with a receptionist and the social housing renters have to enter via a back alley behind some urine-soaked bins.
Maybe they pass a law that decreases the mandatory percentage of urine to be soaked in the bins.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2015, 09:24:15 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 28, 2015, 09:23:14 AM
Iirc London has very stupid requirements re: height of buildings and obstructed views.
Yeah in a city like that you need to build up and down as much as you can.
Yeah, really should be in a rush to adopt the HK model of living!
Quote from: garbon on September 28, 2015, 10:58:00 AM
Yeah, really should be in a rush to adopt the HK model of living!
I am just going to go out on a limb and suggest that London is a bit less densely populated than Hong Kong. But if I am wrong what is the option?
Clearly the answer is mob violence.
Raz is never invited to any good mobs.
He got banned from flash mobs because he took off his clothes.
Ah-aaah!
Wouldn't Raz be the target of mobs, typically?
In places with these required affordable housing laws, how are the apartments allotted?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 28, 2015, 02:05:48 PM
In places with these required affordable housing laws, how are the apartments allotted?
I suspect there is a waiting list.
Stockholm has rent control. There is a waiting list for contracts (I hope you have a decade or five for the top spots), more commonly you get them through contacts and there is also a thriving black market.
It's a WW2 emergency thing that stuck around after the war. The combination of wealthy people with very cheap apartments and poor people who think they're better off with rent control makes it politically impossible to get rid of this very damaging state of affairs.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 28, 2015, 02:05:48 PM
In places with these required affordable housing laws, how are the apartments allotted?
Waiting lists with priority given to homeless families etc I