Languish.org

Phase 2 is over, so it's time to take stock.

I couldn't decide between Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy , so everyone gets two votes! :w00t:

I've seen a few of them on planes, and TBH they all sort of blend together.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 06:29:13 AM
:w00t:

Uh huh

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 06:36:45 AM
I've seen a few of them on planes, and TBH they all sort of blend together.

:yes:

Quote from: Liep on September 13, 2015, 07:05:16 AM

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 06:36:45 AM
I've seen a few of them on planes, and TBH they all sort of blend together.

:yes:

Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

If only there were more of them in the works for the coming years. :(

Guardians is a hands-down choice.  Thankfully, nobody in the cast was so big that they were playing a caricature of themselves (*coughrobertdowneyjrcough*).  The Winter Soldier was good, but it felt like a 2-hour lead-in to the fall of S.H.I.E.L.D.  For capping storylines, I much preferred Iron Man 3, with Tony having the arc reactor removed and tossing it in the ocean after the House Party Protocol.  I also preferred that the writers remembered Tony is fallible and not supposed to be an ideal hero, dealing with a clear case of PTSD after the Chitauri invasion.

Completely agree that Iron Man 2 was crap, though.  War Machine was the only good thing to come out of that movie.

Oh no, is Timmay going to start doing movie reviews?  That'll be worse than Ide doing them.

Well, not literally worse, of course, in that nothing is worse than Ide's tastes in movies, but worse in that if Timmay gets on a reviewing kick, he'll do a lot more of them than Ide does.  Or he'll just cut and paste 20,000 word reviews from dubious internet sources.

Quote from: dps on September 13, 2015, 07:45:08 AM
Oh no, is Timmay going to start doing movie reviews?  That'll be worse than Ide doing them.

Well, not literally worse, of course, in that nothing is worse than Ide's tastes in movies, but worse in that if Timmay gets on a reviewing kick, he'll do a lot more of them than Ide does.  Or he'll just cut and paste 20,000 word reviews from dubious internet sources.

He'll either cut and paste Rotten Tomatoes with a couple words about how he agrees or disagrees, or he'll do the same with IMDB user reviews.

Quote from: dps on September 13, 2015, 07:45:08 AM
Oh no, is Timmay going to start doing movie reviews?  That'll be worse than Ide doing them.

Well, not literally worse, of course, in that nothing is worse than Ide's tastes in movies, but worse in that if Timmay gets on a reviewing kick, he'll do a lot more of them than Ide does.  Or he'll just cut and paste 20,000 word reviews from dubious internet sources.

:blurgh:

You probably hate Sidney Lumet just as much as Joan Robinson does.

I found all those comic films dull and repetitive after the first three or five I watched on planes. I skip them these days. I guess I liked X-Men best, but they are not in this poll. Maybe they belong to the other comic brand?

Quote from: Zanza on September 13, 2015, 08:00:38 AM
I found all those comic films dull and repetitive after the first three or five I watched on planes. I skip them these days. I guess I liked X-Men best, but they are not in this poll. Maybe they belong to the other comic brand?

They're all Marvel, but Marvel doesn't have the movie rights to them. Same with Fantastic Four and Spiderman.

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are borderline cases - in the comics they're Magneto's kids and obviously mutants. However, they were also active on the Avengers, so Marvel got to use them in Age of Ultron. Except they needed a new origin, because Marvel can't use mutants in their movies.

I guess Hami's right in a certain way, though.  They're distributed on a pretty standard curve.

12. Captain America: Winter Soldier (5/10)
11. Iron Man 3 (5/10)
10. Captain America: The First Avenger (6/10)
9. The Avengers: Age of Ultron (6/10)
8. Incredible Hulk (6/10)
7. Iron Man 2 (6/10)
6. Thor: The Dark World (6/10)
5. The Avengers (7/10)
4. Iron Man (8/10)
3.  Guardians of the Galaxy (8/10)
2.  Ant-Man (9/10)
1.  Thor (9/10)

Love that Ant-Man and Thor.

Quote from: ZanzaI found all those comic films dull and repetitive after the first three or five I watched on planes. I skip them these days. I guess I liked X-Men best, but they are not in this poll. Maybe they belong to the other comic brand?

After the troubles at Marvel in the late 1990s, Fox got the rights to X-Men and Fantastic Four, and Sony got Spider-Man (in a bit of trivia, last I heard Universal has the rights to Namor).  Fox has successfully prosecuted their X-Men franchise, so that'll remain separate for what amounts to forever, which I think is absolutely the best case scenario (even if the shared universe in the comics has arguably been a net positive, the mutant stories and regular Marvel superhero stories have always existed in a kind of tension with each other).

Really, I'm kind of surprised Fox hasn't followed Sony's lead and reached a co-production agreement with the FF, given their bizarre inability to do anything worthwhile with the characters.  They'd also fit perfectly well into Disney's Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Quote from: Zanza on September 13, 2015, 08:00:38 AM
I found all those comic films dull and repetitive after the first three or five I watched on planes. I skip them these days. I guess I liked X-Men best, but they are not in this poll. Maybe they belong to the other comic brand?

They are Marvel characters, but they were released by Fox, not Marvel. I agree they are better films overall, I also like the first two Raimi Spider-Mans a lot.

I would go with Guardians among the films listed. Both Cap films and the first Thor are pretty good, though.

Disclaimer: haven't seen Ant-Man.

Quote from: Zanza on September 13, 2015, 08:00:38 AM
I found all those comic films dull and repetitive after the first three or five I watched on planes. I skip them these days. I guess I liked X-Men best, but they are not in this poll. Maybe they belong to the other comic brand?

No, you're correct.  X-Men (and Spiderman as well) are Marvel, but Timmay for some reason didn't include them in his poll.

And I'd agree with you that X-Men is the best film version of a Marvel comic, at least of the one's I've seen.  But I haven't seen most of them.

EDIT:  Ah, Ok, I see.  It's not film adaptations of Marvel Comics, it's the one's produced by Marvel.  Largely a meaningless distinction for the viewing audience.

Avengers was one of the best summer blockbusters in recent history. But in terms of "good movie," I would give the nod to Winter Soldier which is a very good action thriller, and I'm torn about what to pick as #2: Iron Man 1 is a great self contained movie. Iron Man 3 was very good, but had some weaknesses. Guardians of the Galaxy was an irreverent wild roller coaster ride. I haven't watched Ant Man yet. I think I'll go with Guardians.

Quote from: dps on September 13, 2015, 08:08:02 AM
No, you're correct.  X-Men (and Spiderman as well) are Marvel, but Timmay for some reason didn't include them in his poll.

He said favorite Marvel Cinematic Universe movie - X-Men aren't part of the MCU.

Quote from: Syt on September 13, 2015, 08:03:18 AM

Quote from: Zanza on September 13, 2015, 08:00:38 AM
I found all those comic films dull and repetitive after the first three or five I watched on planes. I skip them these days. I guess I liked X-Men best, but they are not in this poll. Maybe they belong to the other comic brand?

They're all Marvel, but Marvel doesn't have the movie rights to them. Same with Fantastic Four and Spiderman.

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are borderline cases - in the comics they're Magneto's kids and obviously mutants. However, they were also active on the Avengers, so Marvel got to use them in Age of Ultron. Except they needed a new origin, because Marvel can't use mutants in their movies.

Actually, Marvel just got the rights to Spiderman back and he will be in Captain America: Civil War, which I'm eagerly anticipating since they're bringing back the director from Winter Soldier.

I think it's just an agreement with Sony that they can use him in a movie?

Quote from: Syt on September 13, 2015, 08:14:21 AM
I think it's just an agreement with Sony that they can use him in a movie?

Correct.

Between Iron Man and Guardians.
I wouldn't really class GOTG as a proper marvel film so iron man

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM

Quote from: Liep on September 13, 2015, 07:05:16 AM

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 06:36:45 AM
I've seen a few of them on planes, and TBH they all sort of blend together.

:yes:

Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

I'm ready to take that bet. 2045: Raiders of the Lost Ark will still be remembered and watched, no one will think about Guardians of the Galaxy unless they reboot it about that time.

Voted Guardians and Iron Man (1).

Marvel is movie cancer.

Quote from: Queequeg on September 13, 2015, 08:20:56 AM
Marvel is movie cancer.

We need more quiet Armenian dramas.

Quote from: Liep on September 13, 2015, 08:19:41 AM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM

Quote from: Liep on September 13, 2015, 07:05:16 AM

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 06:36:45 AM
I've seen a few of them on planes, and TBH they all sort of blend together.

:yes:

Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

I'm ready to take that bet. 2045: Raiders of the Lost Ark will still be remembered and watched, no one will think about Guardians of the Galaxy unless they reboot it about that time.

That's hard to predict. What's a blockbustertoday may be forgotten tomorrow and vice versa - think of all the movies that flopped at the time but have since become classics.

I'm a bit puzzled about why the first Thor is so appreciated, I found them quite underwhelming, and except for a couple of very good jokes also quite forgettable.

Voted Winter Soldier and Guardians.

Bo Welch's career-best effort as a production designer.  (And that's saying something for a guy who worked with Tim Burton in the late 80s and early 90s.)

I'd rather jam a unlubed catheter up my wang than watch another goddamn comic book movie again.

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 13, 2015, 09:28:59 AM
I'd rather jam a unlubed catheter up my wang than watch another goddamn comic book movie again.

This.

Since you didn't mention it, this time I'll offer to kick Timmay in the nuts.  :)

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 13, 2015, 09:28:59 AM
I'd rather jam a unlubed catheter up my wang than watch another goddamn comic book movie again.

Dredd was good. Fuck you.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 08:17:37 AM

Quote from: Syt on September 13, 2015, 08:14:21 AM
I think it's just an agreement with Sony that they can use him in a movie?

Correct.

It is more complicated then that. Basically Sony gets to keep some of the revenu while the Marvel movie producing will handle all creative decision containing to Spiderman.

There will be no more Sony produced Spiderman movies. Ever.

Quote from: mongers on September 13, 2015, 09:38:22 AM

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 13, 2015, 09:28:59 AM
I'd rather jam a unlubed catheter up my wang than watch another goddamn comic book movie again.

This.

Since you didn't mention it, this time I'll offer to kick Timmay in the nuts.  :)

Olds gonna old.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 08:04:33 AM

12. Captain America: Winter Soldier (5/10)

How does it feel to be so deeply, historically wrong? 

None of the sequels I've seen have been good.

Guardians is the only one that rises to the level of xmen/spiderman/joker-less Batman.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM
Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

:lol:


Oh no, wait, you're serious. Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Citizen Kane of the 2010s. Wow.

Quote from: Liep on September 13, 2015, 08:19:41 AM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM

Quote from: Liep on September 13, 2015, 07:05:16 AM

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 06:36:45 AM
I've seen a few of them on planes, and TBH they all sort of blend together.

:yes:

Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

I'm ready to take that bet. 2045: Raiders of the Lost Ark will still be remembered and watched, no one will think about Guardians of the Galaxy unless they reboot it about that time.

By 2045, we won't remember either movie, as we will be too obsorbed with our sex droids/holograms.

I wouldn't say Winter Soldier is the worst Marvel film (the Iron Man sequels exist afterall) but it certainly isn't the best at all.

As for films being remembered in the future...I do think Guardians of the Galaxy will be. Its not like there's a glut of space operas afterall.
The superhero films run the risk of all blending into each other, though they will certainly still be a regular feature of TV schedules (or future-netflix) and I think Iron Man at the least will be remembered well. Especially in light of the 2045 military's Iron Man-lite equipment  :cool:

Quote from: The Larch on September 13, 2015, 08:54:33 AM
I'm a bit puzzled about why the first Thor is so appreciated, I found them quite underwhelming, and except for a couple of very good jokes also quite forgettable.

Voted Winter Soldier and Guardians.

I agree, the "Thor adapts to Earth-life" stuff was pretty good and really should have made up more of the film.
The stuff back on Asgard is just frightfully dull

I like the Thor movies. :)

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 08:04:33 AM
12. Captain America: Winter Soldier (5/10)
11. Iron Man 3 (5/10)
10. Captain America: The First Avenger (6/10)
9. The Avengers: Age of Ultron (6/10)
8. Incredible Hulk (6/10)
7. Iron Man 2 (6/10)
6. Thor: The Dark World (6/10)
5. The Avengers (7/10)
4. Iron Man (8/10)
3.  Guardians of the Galaxy (8/10)
2.  Ant-Man (9/10)
1.  Thor (9/10)

I can more or less accept this, although I think I enjoyed Incredible Hulk and Avengers more than Ide.  Generally speaking, Ide is fairly on point when it comes to movies of this sort.

Quote from: Neil on September 13, 2015, 02:24:14 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 08:04:33 AM
12. Captain America: Winter Soldier (5/10)
11. Iron Man 3 (5/10)
10. Captain America: The First Avenger (6/10)
9. The Avengers: Age of Ultron (6/10)
8. Incredible Hulk (6/10)
7. Iron Man 2 (6/10)
6. Thor: The Dark World (6/10)
5. The Avengers (7/10)
4. Iron Man (8/10)
3.  Guardians of the Galaxy (8/10)
2.  Ant-Man (9/10)
1.  Thor (9/10)

I can more or less accept this, although I think I enjoyed Incredible Hulk and Avengers more than Ide.  Generally speaking, Ide is fairly on point when it comes to movies of this sort.

No, he really is consistently bad in all his reviews.

Scathing criticism from the Meskimo. Can Ide recover?

Quote from: Tyr on September 13, 2015, 02:11:31 PM

Quote from: The Larch on September 13, 2015, 08:54:33 AM
I'm a bit puzzled about why the first Thor is so appreciated, I found them quite underwhelming, and except for a couple of very good jokes also quite forgettable.

Voted Winter Soldier and Guardians.

I agree, the "Thor adapts to Earth-life" stuff was pretty good and really should have made up more of the film.
The stuff back on Asgard is just frightfully dull

A lot of Marvel films suffer from that though; great first/second act, underwhelming actual superhero plot. I don't think Thor is worse than Iron Man or the first Cap movie on that regard.

Guardians is probably the most even film Marvel has produced, solid fun throughout.

Quote from: katmai on September 13, 2015, 02:27:28 PM

Quote from: Neil on September 13, 2015, 02:24:14 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 08:04:33 AM
12. Captain America: Winter Soldier (5/10)
11. Iron Man 3 (5/10)
10. Captain America: The First Avenger (6/10)
9. The Avengers: Age of Ultron (6/10)
8. Incredible Hulk (6/10)
7. Iron Man 2 (6/10)
6. Thor: The Dark World (6/10)
5. The Avengers (7/10)
4. Iron Man (8/10)
3.  Guardians of the Galaxy (8/10)
2.  Ant-Man (9/10)
1.  Thor (9/10)

I can more or less accept this, although I think I enjoyed Incredible Hulk and Avengers more than Ide.  Generally speaking, Ide is fairly on point when it comes to movies of this sort.

No, he really is consistently bad in all his reviews.

I don't think so.  I think that Languish can be a little too scathing and cruel sometimes.  There are times when people do get a little too navel-gazey, but I think Ide looks in depth into films, while still generally staying somewhat grounded.

I like to visit Ide's webpage from time to time, especially when there's a new movie out.  I'm still waiting for his Fantastic Four review, although moving to Pittsburgh has probably kept him busy.

By the way, watched Age of Ultron last night and it was not as bad as I expected. It got very bad reviews but I thought it was a decent "filler" Marvel movie. Not worse than Thor 2: Dark World.

They just need to get sooner to the point when the bad guy has all the gems.

I think Ironman is great with the Avengers but boring to watch on his own. Narcissism only works well with me when he has other personalities to play off of. Incredible Hulk is boring because nothing can hurt him. He works well with the Avengers because you know he is their ace card.

I liked Captain America though. Never saw Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, or Ironman 3.

The Thor movies are great.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 08:22:59 AM

Quote from: Queequeg on September 13, 2015, 08:20:56 AM
Marvel is movie cancer.

We need more quiet Armenian dramas.

:lol:

Quote from: Jaron on September 13, 2015, 02:48:27 PM
I think Ironman is great with the Avengers but boring to watch on his own. Narcissism only works well with me when he has other personalities to play off of. Incredible Hulk is boring because nothing can hurt him. He works well with the Avengers because you know he is their ace card.

I liked Captain America though. Never saw Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, or Ironman 3.

The Thor movies are great.

Guardians of the Galaxy is great. It is this generation's Star Wars.

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 12:24:28 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM
Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

:lol:


Oh no, wait, you're serious. Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Citizen Kane of the 2010s. Wow.

I missed Hami. We don't have too many conceited snobs on Languish. Oh wait.

Anyway, it's not Citizen Kane, but neither were Star Wars.

Comparisons with Star Wars are wide off the mark imho. Guardians just adds some flourishes to the symphony Star Wars wrote. Star Wars changed the way entertainment movies were made, it's one of the most influential films of all time.

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 12:24:28 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM
Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

:lol:


Oh no, wait, you're serious. Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Citizen Kane of the 2010s. Wow.

Tim's predictions have not exactly been robust.

Quote from: Martinus on September 13, 2015, 02:49:25 PM

Quote from: Jaron on September 13, 2015, 02:48:27 PM
I think Ironman is great with the Avengers but boring to watch on his own. Narcissism only works well with me when he has other personalities to play off of. Incredible Hulk is boring because nothing can hurt him. He works well with the Avengers because you know he is their ace card.

I liked Captain America though. Never saw Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, or Ironman 3.

The Thor movies are great.

Guardians of the Galaxy is great. It is this generation's Star Wars.

Isn't this generations Star Wars..... Star Wars? :P

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 12:24:28 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM
Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

:lol:


Oh no, wait, you're serious. Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Citizen Kane of the 2010s. Wow.

Are you under some sort of impression that Raiders of the Lost Ark is the Citizen Kane of 1981?  It's an extremely well-done version of things that already existed, much in the same manner as GotG.  (For that matter, much in the same way as Citizen Kane.)  That Raiders is still leagues better than GotG just means that Tim didn't properly calibrate his comparison, particularly for an audience made up of nostalgic 80s children who still wish Indy was their dad.  Maybe should've used Goldfinger (another mercenary producer-driven franchise entry that people still watch 50 years later) or Flash Gordon (another riff on Star Wars that people still watch 35 years later).

Anyway, the idea that a movie that made a billion dollars won't be seen three decades down the line is not the same as putting in it on some all-time top 10 list.  Jesus, people still watch Little Monsters, a Fred Savage vehicle remembered principally because there's a part where they trick a kid into drinking piss.

Quote from: NeilI don't think so.  I think that Languish can be a little too scathing and cruel sometimes.  There are times when people do get a little too navel-gazey, but I think Ide looks in depth into films, while still generally staying somewhat grounded.

I like to visit Ide's webpage from time to time, especially when there's a new movie out.  I'm still waiting for his Fantastic Four review, although moving to Pittsburgh has probably kept him busy.

:)

"Everything everyone does sucks" is the general Languish mode of communication.  It's how this place kind of became a cesspool.

What constitutes "won't be seen"? After all, there are plenty of people so lots of things will be seen again.  That said, to me what's more interesting is about memorability. While I liked Guardians of the Galaxy, I don't think there's anything particularly memorable about it. No snappy lines I'll want to borrow.

Citizen Kane has a lot of good points, but it's still a fucking biopic.

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 12:24:28 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM
Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

:lol:


Oh no, wait, you're serious. Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Citizen Kane of the 2010s. Wow.

Does anyone think that Raiders of the Lost Ark is on the level of Citizen Kane? Because that's what I compared it to. Surely you'll agree that some of the action/scifi films released this decade will stand the test of time and be remembered 30 years from now. My claim is that Guardians of the Galaxy will be one of them.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 05:02:58 PM

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 12:24:28 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM
Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

:lol:


Oh no, wait, you're serious. Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Citizen Kane of the 2010s. Wow.

Does anyone think that Raiders of the Lost Ark is on the level of Citizen Kane? Because that's what I compared it to. Surely you'll agree that some of the action/scifi films released this decade will stand the test of time and be remembered 30 years from now. My claim is that Guardians of the Galaxy will be one of them.

:blurgh:

I don't want to live on this planet anymore

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 03:53:32 PM
"Everything everyone does sucks" is the general Languish mode of communication.  It's how this place kind of became a cesspool.

Yeah.  It was kinda bumming me out, but then I put things in perspective.  I just don't come around very often anymore, and I just ignore certain topics and people.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 05:02:58 PM
Does anyone think that Raiders of the Lost Ark is on the level of Citizen Kane?

It's better. :blurgh:

Quote from: Martinus on September 13, 2015, 02:53:00 PM
I missed Hami. We don't have too many conceited snobs on Languish. Oh wait.

Ok STFU with that noise.

Quote from: Neil on September 13, 2015, 05:12:14 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 03:53:32 PM
"Everything everyone does sucks" is the general Languish mode of communication.  It's how this place kind of became a cesspool.

Yeah.  It was kinda bumming me out, but then I put things in perspective.  I just don't come around very often anymore, and I just ignore certain topics and people.

Huh. Well sorry guys I wish it were not so. I think this place is positively delightful compared to all the other places on the internet I have been. Where is this non-cesspool place you guys hang out at?

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 13, 2015, 05:07:24 PM
I don't want to live on this planet anymore

Join the Mormons and go to planet Kolob

Quote from: garbon on September 13, 2015, 04:03:52 PM
What constitutes "won't be seen"? After all, there are plenty of people so lots of things will be seen again.  That said, to me what's more interesting is about memorability. While I liked Guardians of the Galaxy, I don't think there's anything particularly memorable about it. No snappy lines I'll want to borrow.

I guess Little Monsters would fall under the minimum level needed for "culturally important."

One thing about the Marvel movies that I think is being overlooked--and which Tim intuits--is that for the most part it's acceptable for and well-liked by children, and with about 27 hours' worth of bright colors and cum jokes that aren't quite overt enough for the wee ones, it'll keep people's kids sedated for decades to come.

Quote from: Valmy on September 13, 2015, 05:46:26 PM

Quote from: Neil on September 13, 2015, 05:12:14 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 03:53:32 PM
"Everything everyone does sucks" is the general Languish mode of communication.  It's how this place kind of became a cesspool.

Yeah.  It was kinda bumming me out, but then I put things in perspective.  I just don't come around very often anymore, and I just ignore certain topics and people.

Huh. Well sorry guys I wish it were not so. I think this place is positively delightful compared to all the other places on the internet I have been. Where is this non-cesspool place you guys hang out at?

I think the problem is that familiarity breeds contempt. It's not that Languish is worse than other internet forums (it's better than almost all of them), it's just that the posters know each other so well that a lot of things are taken personally.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 05:58:37 PM
One thing about the Marvel movies that I think is being overlooked--and which Tim intuits--is that for the most part it's acceptable for and well-liked by children, and with about 27 hours' worth of bright colors and cum jokes that aren't quite overt enough for the wee ones, it'll keep people's kids sedated for decades to come.

I take it you are not a fan? :P

For what they are I have been really surprised by the general good quality of the films, even as they keep getting made in crazy numbers. Sure there are dudes but not nearly as many as one might expect. I think comic book fans are going to appreciate these films for decades to come.

Quote from: Valmy on September 13, 2015, 05:46:26 PM

Quote from: Neil on September 13, 2015, 05:12:14 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 03:53:32 PM
"Everything everyone does sucks" is the general Languish mode of communication.  It's how this place kind of became a cesspool.

Yeah.  It was kinda bumming me out, but then I put things in perspective.  I just don't come around very often anymore, and I just ignore certain topics and people.

Huh. Well sorry guys I wish it were not so. I think this place is positively delightful compared to all the other places on the internet I have been. Where is this non-cesspool place you guys hang out at?

Got to agree with V.

Ide quit your whining.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 05:02:58 PM

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 12:24:28 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM
Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

:lol:


Oh no, wait, you're serious. Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Citizen Kane of the 2010s. Wow.

Does anyone think that Raiders of the Lost Ark is on the level of Citizen Kane? Because that's what I compared it to. Surely you'll agree that some of the action/scifi films released this decade will stand the test of time and be remembered 30 years from now. My claim is that Guardians of the Galaxy will be one of them.

Among geeks and nerds like most posters here?  Yeah, probably.  Among general movie audiences?  Probably not.

Quote from: Valmy on September 13, 2015, 06:02:48 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 05:58:37 PM
One thing about the Marvel movies that I think is being overlooked--and which Tim intuits--is that for the most part it's acceptable for and well-liked by children, and with about 27 hours' worth of bright colors and cum jokes that aren't quite overt enough for the wee ones, it'll keep people's kids sedated for decades to come.

I take it you are not a fan? :P

Of course I am.  I like bright colors and cum jokes. :)

Quote from: InfantryIde quit your whining.

Not whining, just describing.

Of the list, all but the below I like.

Guardians of the Galaxy= Suck fest and stupid
The Incredible Hulk= Couldn't get into it several times
Ant Man= Haven't seen

Avengers is my top pick.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 06:28:56 PM
Not whining, just describing.

You didn't answer my question though. We being described as a cesspool implies there being a place that is better.

Also, DC comic book movies suck.

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 13, 2015, 07:43:57 PM
Also, DC comic book movies suck.

If they're not Batman (and even then, that's not a guarantee; see: Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, and The Dark Knight Rises).  Other than that caveat, I pretty much agree: Green Lantern sucked, and so did Man of Steel.

You forgot the suckiest one of all, Catwoman.

Batman Forever was ok though.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview6%2F2624471%2Fcatwoman-o.gif&hash=3ab72c928b89c46b3b24ba3c24910253ab219fdd)

She kinda looks like Scorpio from Farscape in that pic. :x

But I was talking about the standalone Catwoman movie with Halle Berry. Just awful.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 13, 2015, 08:28:42 PM
You forgot the suckiest one of all, Catwoman.

Batman Forever was ok though.

I was naming exceptions, not the sucky ones.  Or I would have started with that shitfest that was Green Lantern.

Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 13, 2015, 09:08:21 PM

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 13, 2015, 08:28:42 PM
You forgot the suckiest one of all, Catwoman.

Batman Forever was ok though.

I was naming exceptions, not the sucky ones.  Or I would have started with that shitfest that was Green Lantern.

Ide probably loves it.

Green Lantern was okay.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 05:02:58 PM

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 13, 2015, 12:24:28 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 07:25:34 AM
Wrong. The best of them like Guardians of the Galaxy and The Winter Soldier will be remembered 30 years from now, like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others like Iron Man 2 have already been thrown onto the trash heap of history.

:lol:


Oh no, wait, you're serious. Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Citizen Kane of the 2010s. Wow.

Does anyone think that Raiders of the Lost Ark is on the level of Citizen Kane?

Hami does.

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are great. Man of Steel is good. The rest are crap or too old to be in the discussion of modern (post X-Men) superhero movies.

Avengers and Winter Soldiers are on the top of my list.

Guardians of the Galaxy is funny, but I don't feel anything for the characters.  Thor was so-so (1&2).  Iron Man 1 was great, 3 was pretty good too.  2, meh.

I think my appreciation is tainted by my childhood experience.  The Avengers and Iron Man, I watched the cartoons on Saturday morning as I was a kid.  I think it's more nostalgia than any intrinsic quality about the movies.  That, and I'm a Joss Whedon fan.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2015, 11:02:06 PM
Man of Steel is good.

:yeahright:

Seven votes for Thor?

I liked it, but I didn't think it was great. Why so many fans?

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 05:58:37 PM
One thing about the Marvel movies that I think is being overlooked--and which Tim intuits--is that for the most part it's acceptable for and well-liked by children, and with about 27 hours' worth of bright colors and cum jokes that aren't quite overt enough for the wee ones, it'll keep people's kids sedated for decades to come.

Well doesn't that just had down the path that none of them are particularly memorable - they'll just be remembered as as an amusing mash of entertainment?

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 14, 2015, 01:02:10 AM
Seven votes for Thor?

I liked it, but I didn't think it was great. Why so many fans?

Best is not necessarily good. I liked Thor but I'm not a fan and I didn't think it was great.

Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:13:34 AM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 05:58:37 PM
One thing about the Marvel movies that I think is being overlooked--and which Tim intuits--is that for the most part it's acceptable for and well-liked by children, and with about 27 hours' worth of bright colors and cum jokes that aren't quite overt enough for the wee ones, it'll keep people's kids sedated for decades to come.

Well doesn't that just had down the path that none of them are particularly memorable - they'll just be remembered as as an amusing mash of entertainment?

As an aggregate, I largely agree with that.  But about a third of them are pretty great.  (Will they be dragged down by the average?  I don't see why.  Does Star Trek II suffer because Generations exists?  Actually, it might.  I'm not sure the Star Trek films are heavily-seen these days.)

I only see Star Trek II shown as part of Star Trek marathons in movie channels, so I think it actually helps there's lots of Trek films.

You know, I say this all the time, but I think it's a bit of a pity that the Motion Picture and III get such bad raps.  As for TMP, at least it's understandable (it is slow as fuck, although I prefer to call it stately).  III's a pretty great adventure film, and even if you like the second one better, it nonetheless enriches and deepens II.

Then again, I also think V is a fundamentally enjoyable experience.  It's hard to separate Trek fandom from a sober-minded analysis.  But it is about the only film I know where one of the heroes shoots God in the face.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 03:51:09 AM
You know, I say this all the time, but I think it's a bit of a pity that the Motion Picture and III get such bad raps.  As for TMP, at least it's understandable (it is slow as fuck, although I prefer to call it stately).  III's a pretty great adventure film, and even if you like the second one better, it nonetheless enriches and deepens II.

Then again, I also think V is a fundamentally enjoyable experience.  It's hard to separate Trek fandom from a sober-minded analysis.  But it is about the only film I know where one of the heroes shoots God in the face.

Happens all the time in anime.

We already knew anime was an affront to the Almighty.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 03:51:09 AM
You know, I say this all the time, but I think it's a bit of a pity that the Motion Picture and III get such bad raps.  As for TMP, at least it's understandable (it is slow as fuck, although I prefer to call it stately).  III's a pretty great adventure film, and even if you like the second one better, it nonetheless enriches and deepens II.

Then again, I also think V is a fundamentally enjoyable experience.  It's hard to separate Trek fandom from a sober-minded analysis.  But it is about the only film I know where one of the heroes shoots God in the face.

Star Trek I and III are fine, imho. IV is stupid but a guilty pleasure of mine, loved it as a kid  :blush:

Quote from: celedhring on September 14, 2015, 04:26:17 AM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 03:51:09 AM
You know, I say this all the time, but I think it's a bit of a pity that the Motion Picture and III get such bad raps.  As for TMP, at least it's understandable (it is slow as fuck, although I prefer to call it stately).  III's a pretty great adventure film, and even if you like the second one better, it nonetheless enriches and deepens II.

Then again, I also think V is a fundamentally enjoyable experience.  It's hard to separate Trek fandom from a sober-minded analysis.  But it is about the only film I know where one of the heroes shoots God in the face.

Star Trek I and III are fine, imho. IV is stupid but a guilty pleasure of mine, loved it as a kid  :blush:

I still love it :hug:

IV is one of the most entertaining time travel movies.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 14, 2015, 01:02:10 AM
Seven votes for Thor?

I liked it, but I didn't think it was great. Why so many fans?

Whatshername is in it.

Quote from: Martinus on September 13, 2015, 02:53:00 PM
I missed Hami. We don't have too many conceited snobs on Languish. Oh wait.

There's a difference between conceit and snark. I have been honing my snark skills in snark camp (aka Twitter).

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 13, 2015, 08:41:57 PM
She kinda looks like Scorpio from Farscape in that pic. :x

Now that's a movie I'd watch. On a plane.

Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 10:59:21 AM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 14, 2015, 01:02:10 AM
Seven votes for Thor?

I liked it, but I didn't think it was great. Why so many fans?

Whatshername is in it.

Natalie Wood.

Quote from: Monoriu on September 14, 2015, 04:38:10 AM

Quote from: celedhring on September 14, 2015, 04:26:17 AM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 03:51:09 AM
You know, I say this all the time, but I think it's a bit of a pity that the Motion Picture and III get such bad raps.  As for TMP, at least it's understandable (it is slow as fuck, although I prefer to call it stately).  III's a pretty great adventure film, and even if you like the second one better, it nonetheless enriches and deepens II.

Then again, I also think V is a fundamentally enjoyable experience.  It's hard to separate Trek fandom from a sober-minded analysis.  But it is about the only film I know where one of the heroes shoots God in the face.

Star Trek I and III are fine, imho. IV is stupid but a guilty pleasure of mine, loved it as a kid  :blush:

I still love it :hug:

I rate IV as highly as II, personally.

IV's swell.  And double-dumbass on anybody who disagrees.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 14, 2015, 01:02:10 AM
I liked it, but I didn't think it was great. Why so many fans?

Big muscular tall guy that looks like he spends his days training.  He got all the gay mafia vote from this board, even if he's too old for Gral.

Also the filmmaking isn't hideous, like in, for example, the Winter Soldier.  (Dutch angles notwithstanding, of course.)

Quote from: Valmy on September 13, 2015, 07:39:47 PM
You didn't answer my question though. We being described as a cesspool implies there being a place that is better.

not specifically, no.  Describing one place as 'hell' could only mean it's one of the seven hells, the first one, not as bad as the other 6.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 02:53:36 AM
As an aggregate, I largely agree with that.  But about a third of them are pretty great.  (Will they be dragged down by the average?  I don't see why.  Does Star Trek II suffer because Generations exists?  Actually, it might.  I'm not sure the Star Trek films are heavily-seen these days.)

Old movies are not heavily seen these days.  People in the 50s didn't spend most of the time in theaters watching movies made in the 20s either.  And in the 80s, with the VHS, some old movies got renewed interest, but I'd bet the majority of movies watched where the recent ones.  Today is no different.  Fans and cinema afficionados will watch/rewatch classics, but aside that, not many people want to see movies done 3-4 decades ago, unless the special effects happen to have been redone, like Star Wars.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 12:13:45 PM
Also the filmmaking isn't hideous, like in, for example, the Winter Soldier.  (Dutch angles notwithstanding, of course.)

Winter soldier is way better than both Thor.  I liked them, I've even rewatched them when they were on TV, but they still are not great movie like the Winter Soldier.

That's depressing, though I don't think it's exactly true.  Kids watch all those old Disney movies, even the ones that are kind of lame on any level but animation quality, like Cinderella and Snow White.  People still seek out acknowledged classics.  I think most people with any interest in movies beyond "something to do while waiting to socialize/have sex" will have seen a smattering of stuff like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Vertigo, and the like.  I dunno, maybe you're right.  I mean, my girlfriend, who is getting a Ph.D. in cultural studies, has to be kind of cajoled into watching movies from the 30s, 40s and 50s.  She's a bit more amenable to 70s fare.  (Not so much the 80s. :lol: )

Silent movies are pretty much dead to 99% of people, though.

Quote from: viper37 on September 14, 2015, 12:20:21 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 12:13:45 PM
Also the filmmaking isn't hideous, like in, for example, the Winter Soldier.  (Dutch angles notwithstanding, of course.)

Winter soldier is way better than both Thor.  I liked them, I've even rewatched them when they were on TV, but they still are not great movie like the Winter Soldier.

I have never seen a compelling argument that Winter Soldier is great.  It's really, really unattractive in its editing and cinematography.  Its subject matter is as obtuse as just about anything could be (the central idea that a fictional intelligence organization which is actually rather hard to pin down as exclusively "American" in the first place is controlled by secret not-Nazis manages to be edgy and incisive in basically no way whatsoever).  Its climax is underwhelming for something that involves as much destruction as it does.  The titular character barely features in the movie, and does little advance either Steve's character or the movie's themes.  It's neither very funny, nor successfully melodramatic (on this count, it really doesn't help that the trailers spoiled the ending).  Some of the martial arts were theoretically cool before the Russos got ahold of them and bled them dry, Bourne-style.  Altogether, I'm extremely bummed out that folks like the Russos (and outright hacks like Alan Taylor) have the keys now.

That said, Community is pretty great.  They should've stuck with that.

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 14, 2015, 11:02:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 13, 2015, 08:41:57 PM
She kinda looks like Scorpio from Farscape in that pic. :x

Now that's a movie I'd watch. On a plane.

I thought Guardians was in many ways a Farscape movie.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 12:24:00 PM
That's depressing, though I don't think it's exactly true.  Kids watch all those old Disney movies, even the ones that are kind of lame on any level but animation quality, like Cinderella and Snow White.  People still seek out acknowledged classics.  I think most people with any interest in movies beyond "something to do while waiting to socialize/have sex" will have seen a smattering of stuff like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Vertigo, and the like.  I dunno, maybe you're right.  I mean, my girlfriend, who is getting a Ph.D. in cultural studies, has to be kind of cajoled into watching movies from the 30s, 40s and 50s.  She's a bit more amenable to 70s fare.  (Not so much the 80s. :lol: )

Silent movies are pretty much dead to 99% of people, though.

You said "heavily".  I do not deny that some people watch classics, I deny they form the majority, at all ages.
If I look at the kids around me, they watch Frozen and the singing animals in a barn (don't even know the title, it's always playing when I go to my dad's and the kids are there, I am annoyed and I don't have to endure it every two weeks :P )

Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country are the only watchable Star Trek movies (of the original franchise).

The others are crap with the exception of the whale movie. That one is an atrocity.

The whale one is the best one :o

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 12:29:02 PM
I have never seen a compelling argument that Winter Soldier is great.  It's really, really unattractive in its editing and cinematography.  Its subject matter is as obtuse as just about anything could be (the central idea that a fictional intelligence organization which is actually rather hard to pin down as exclusively "American" in the first place is controlled by secret not-Nazis manages to be edgy and incisive in basically no way whatsoever).  Its climax is underwhelming for something that involves as much destruction as it does.  The titular character barely features in the movie, and does little advance either Steve's character or the movie's themes.  It's neither very funny, nor successfully melodramatic (on this count, it really doesn't help that the trailers spoiled the ending).  Some of the martial arts were theoretically cool before the Russos got ahold of them and bled them dry, Bourne-style.  Altogether, I'm extremely bummed out that folks like the Russos (and outright hacks like Alan Taylor) have the keys now.

That said, Community is pretty great.  They should've stuck with that.

You take it at face value, a common mistake among reviewers.  And you expect a degree of realism that would almost nihilate all kind of super heroes or science fiction movies.

Yes, there's a super intelligence agency dealing mostly in mutant related problems.  It's never been implied that it is only american though.   Hard to believe that such a thing could exist in the real world?  Well, I have trouble believing that a dude exposed to gamma rays would turn in a green giant bent on destruction albeit still possessing a degree of semi-consciousness.  I also don't think the US military has ever had the capacities to create a super soldier, genetically engineered for war and command ;)

So, yes, you have to accept some incredible things as possible for the movie to work ;)

That said, if you look at it, it follows a classical narrative about the conspiracy being hidden deeply inside the organization.  James Bond had a movie based on this scenario.  Lots of Hollywood movies have this conspiracy thing going, many dealt with US Generals plotting a coup against the President as he was about to sign peace with the Russians.  Some of them got great reviews for that.  So, nothing new or too far fetched here, Marvel movies work because they stay close to a time proven formula.  That's one weak point.

The rest of the movie is one big chase, with Captain America wondering who he can trust or not, and keeping you on your toes as he meet an ennemy he can't defeat just yet.  Again, classical narrative, the hero(es) meet an ennemy too strong for them at first.  It's been like that since the Intrepid Hyena everywhere they make movies ;)

There are very good bits of dialogue between Black Widow and Captain America, stuff that foreshadows the future.  Yes, the ending is deceiving because it's not a standalone movie, it's part of all other movies.  SHIELD is down, and in the next movie, some of the Avengers are trying to recreate something better and it fails miserably, setting the stage for the next big show, the Civil War. It's more like a 2hr tv show than a standalone movie, and I like that.  Writers take their time to do something bigger than just some explosions like a Transformers movie.

The fights are incredibly well done, even better than the Bourne trilogy.  The special effects are top notch and then, there's the message underlying everything about Marvel: absolute power corrupts absolutely.  It also goes deep into Americans traditional fears of a super spy agency that would take control of their government, wich is why they rely on multiple competitive agencies that can not prevent terror attacks and jugulate crime instead.  This is the overall message of the movie: we live in an imperfect world, but the alternative is worst.

Lots of people who posted that they haven't seen Ant Man need to go see Ant Man and only then vote. Because that movie approaches Guardians in its level of fun, in a way no other MCU movie does (except possibly Iron Man 1).

Quote from: Solmyr on September 14, 2015, 01:19:52 PM
Lots of people who posted that they haven't seen Ant Man need to go see Ant Man and only then vote. Because that movie approaches Guardians in its level of fun, in a way no other MCU movie does (except possibly Iron Man 1).

Are any giant ants involved? Do they win?

Quote from: Hamilcar on September 14, 2015, 01:21:49 PM

Quote from: Solmyr on September 14, 2015, 01:19:52 PM
Lots of people who posted that they haven't seen Ant Man need to go see Ant Man and only then vote. Because that movie approaches Guardians in its level of fun, in a way no other MCU movie does (except possibly Iron Man 1).

Are any giant ants involved? Do they win?

Yes.

Quote from: Solmyr on September 14, 2015, 01:19:52 PM
Lots of people who posted that they haven't seen Ant Man need to go see Ant Man and only then vote. Because that movie approaches Guardians in its level of fun, in a way no other MCU movie does (except possibly Iron Man 1).

:hug:

Quote from: viper37 on September 14, 2015, 01:18:23 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 12:29:02 PM
I have never seen a compelling argument that Winter Soldier is great.  It's really, really unattractive in its editing and cinematography.  Its subject matter is as obtuse as just about anything could be (the central idea that a fictional intelligence organization which is actually rather hard to pin down as exclusively "American" in the first place is controlled by secret not-Nazis manages to be edgy and incisive in basically no way whatsoever).  Its climax is underwhelming for something that involves as much destruction as it does.  The titular character barely features in the movie, and does little advance either Steve's character or the movie's themes.  It's neither very funny, nor successfully melodramatic (on this count, it really doesn't help that the trailers spoiled the ending).  Some of the martial arts were theoretically cool before the Russos got ahold of them and bled them dry, Bourne-style.  Altogether, I'm extremely bummed out that folks like the Russos (and outright hacks like Alan Taylor) have the keys now.

That said, Community is pretty great.  They should've stuck with that.

You take it at face value, a common mistake among reviewers.  And you expect a degree of realism that would almost nihilate all kind of super heroes or science fiction movies.

Yes, there's a super intelligence agency dealing mostly in mutant related problems.  It's never been implied that it is only american though.   Hard to believe that such a thing could exist in the real world?  Well, I have trouble believing that a dude exposed to gamma rays would turn in a green giant bent on destruction albeit still possessing a degree of semi-consciousness.  I also don't think the US military has ever had the capacities to create a super soldier, genetically engineered for war and command ;)

So, yes, you have to accept some incredible things as possible for the movie to work ;)

No, it works as a story.  But the power people impute to it is lacking because it doesn't relate to anything directly.  It'd be like if in Three Days of the Condor, the hit on the American Literature Society was actually ordered by Cobra.

QuoteThat said, if you look at it, it follows a classical narrative about the conspiracy being hidden deeply inside the organization.  James Bond had a movie based on this scenario.  Lots of Hollywood movies have this conspiracy thing going, many dealt with US Generals plotting a coup against the President as he was about to sign peace with the Russians.  Some of them got great reviews for that.  So, nothing new or too far fetched here, Marvel movies work because they stay close to a time proven formula.  That's one weak point.

Yeah, Seven Days in May is good because Burt Lancaster is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, not a Not-Nazi.  It likewise worked in the actual Cap comic even though the enemy was the Secret Empire because the corrupted official was heavily implied to be Richard Nixon.

QuoteThe rest of the movie is one big chase, with Captain America wondering who he can trust or not, and keeping you on your toes as he meet an ennemy he can't defeat just yet.  Again, classical narrative, the hero(es) meet an ennemy too strong for them at first.  It's been like that since the Intrepid Hyena everywhere they make movies ;)

Yes, and the obvious villain is the obvious villain.  If it had been Nick Fury, we're talking drama.  If we're talking a stunt-cast Redford who's never been seen before, not so much.  They could've split the difference and gotten William Sadler, and I'd have given them the points they wanted for relevance or edginess or whatever.  That said, the formal elements of the film still would've let it down in the end.

QuoteThere are very good bits of dialogue between Black Widow and Captain America, stuff that foreshadows the future.  Yes, the ending is deceiving because it's not a standalone movie, it's part of all other movies.  SHIELD is down, and in the next movie, some of the Avengers are trying to recreate something better and it fails miserably, setting the stage for the next big show, the Civil War. It's more like a 2hr tv show than a standalone movie, and I like that.  Writers take their time to do something bigger than just some explosions like a Transformers movie.

The fights are incredibly well done, even better than the Bourne trilogy.  The special effects are top notch and then, there's the message underlying everything about Marvel: absolute power corrupts absolutely.  It also goes deep into Americans traditional fears of a super spy agency that would take control of their government, wich is why they rely on multiple competitive agencies that can not prevent terror attacks and jugulate crime instead.  This is the overall message of the movie: we live in an imperfect world, but the alternative is worst.

OK, the fights are better than the Bourne trilogy.  They're not The Raid or Fury Road, or Dredd or any of the M:I movies, or the urgent quick-cutting of Edge of Tomorrow, or even the interesting anti-style of something like Jack Reacher.  They're a little less enjoyable than, say, Non-Stop.  They're about as muddled as some of the stuff in the climax of Age of Ultron, but at least the Joss Whedon joint wasn't as cutty, even if it was about as indifferently-staged.

I don't think the reason we don't have an overarching spy agency is because of fear of a conglomerated spy dictatorship.  It's just that we created and funded ad hoc agencies for different things, and as bureaucrats tend to do they became little empire-building operations.  Hence why the CIA and NSA both overlap a lot.  The FBI of course goes back a long way, predating modern fears of international terrorism or even anti-Soviet intelligence operations.  Still, they can be evil, and that's fun to see in movies, but the allegory is so distant it loses a lot of impact.  (Not least because since HYDRA has infiltrated everything in The Winter Soldier, we actually need surveillance more than ever, at all levels of government.)

Quote from: Solmyr on September 14, 2015, 01:19:52 PM
Lots of people who posted that they haven't seen Ant Man need to go see Ant Man and only then vote. Because that movie approaches Guardians in its level of fun, in a way no other MCU movie does (except possibly Iron Man 1).

I refuse to see it until the name is corrected to Mant.

Quote from: viper37 on September 14, 2015, 12:58:06 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 12:24:00 PM
That's depressing, though I don't think it's exactly true.  Kids watch all those old Disney movies, even the ones that are kind of lame on any level but animation quality, like Cinderella and Snow White.  People still seek out acknowledged classics.  I think most people with any interest in movies beyond "something to do while waiting to socialize/have sex" will have seen a smattering of stuff like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Vertigo, and the like.  I dunno, maybe you're right.  I mean, my girlfriend, who is getting a Ph.D. in cultural studies, has to be kind of cajoled into watching movies from the 30s, 40s and 50s.  She's a bit more amenable to 70s fare.  (Not so much the 80s. :lol: )

Silent movies are pretty much dead to 99% of people, though.

You said "heavily".  I do not deny that some people watch classics, I deny they form the majority, at all ages.

I'm not sure that there's ever been any one movie that the majority of people have seen, even if you just restrict it to the West and leave out the rest of the world, so I don't think that means anything as a standard.

Also, more people watch movies on TV or on DVD than in the theater, at least in the US.  That skews things somewhat towards older movies. If you asked all Americans to list the movies they've seen in the last 3 months, I'd be somewhat surprised if any of the top 10 movies on the list were actually in theaters during that time.  Heck, half of 'em would probably be the last 5 James Bond movies to be shown on TBS.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 14, 2015, 11:02:40 AM
Natalie Wood.

Nah, Kat Dennings. :mmm:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Frxi7rjf.gif&hash=9b57cac7b810fc75ba33d9b80e8d98c91a0af639)

Quote from: dps on September 14, 2015, 02:30:32 PM
Also, more people watch movies on TV or on DVD than in the theater, at least in the US.  That skews things somewhat towards older movies. If you asked all Americans to list the movies they've seen in the last 3 months, I'd be somewhat surprised if any of the top 10 movies on the list were actually in theaters during that time.  Heck, half of 'em would probably be the last 5 James Bond movies to be shown on TBS.

Not in theaters, but movies released within 5 years of today, say, compared to movies released 2-3 decades ago.  That is what I meant.

Yeah, I think that top 10 list would consist of 8 or 9 movies that just came to dvd/Redbox/Netflix and the latest mega-blockbuster in the theater.

Quote from: dps on September 14, 2015, 02:30:32 PM

Quote from: viper37 on September 14, 2015, 12:58:06 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 14, 2015, 12:24:00 PM
That's depressing, though I don't think it's exactly true.  Kids watch all those old Disney movies, even the ones that are kind of lame on any level but animation quality, like Cinderella and Snow White.  People still seek out acknowledged classics.  I think most people with any interest in movies beyond "something to do while waiting to socialize/have sex" will have seen a smattering of stuff like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Vertigo, and the like.  I dunno, maybe you're right.  I mean, my girlfriend, who is getting a Ph.D. in cultural studies, has to be kind of cajoled into watching movies from the 30s, 40s and 50s.  She's a bit more amenable to 70s fare.  (Not so much the 80s. :lol: )

Silent movies are pretty much dead to 99% of people, though.

You said "heavily".  I do not deny that some people watch classics, I deny they form the majority, at all ages.

I'm not sure that there's ever been any one movie that the majority of people have seen, even if you just restrict it to the West and leave out the rest of the world, so I don't think that means anything as a standard.

Maybe Wizard of Oz.  That's probably as close as one gets.

I've never seen it :P

Quote from: viper37 on September 15, 2015, 08:56:03 AM
I've never seen it :P

:o

You're missing out.  It's reputation as a classic is well-deserved.

Quote from: viper37 on September 15, 2015, 08:56:03 AM
I've never seen it :P

:(

Actually, on the subject of whether people watch old movies, check out the "what's popular" row on Netflix.  Plenty of old stuff on that.  Think I saw, for example, Marathon Man; am pretty certain I saw (the first) Total Recall.  Right now, I'm seeing Anastasia, Labyrinth, Sleepy Hollow, Hook, Masters of the fucking Universe, Popeye, Dirty Dancing, My Best Friend's Wedding, Grease, Hackers, Legally Blonde (I know people still watch that :rolleyes: <_< ), and While You Were Sleeping.  All 20th century movies, and a lot from the the 1980s.

Granted, nothing from before that, so childhood nostalgia may be a far bigger driver than curiosity about old stuff, or an unbiased affection for old stuff gained as an adult.

Oh, oops, Legally Blonde was 2001.  But still, that's pretty old now. -_-

Quote from: Ideologue on September 15, 2015, 11:56:46 AM
Granted, nothing from before that, so childhood nostalgia may be a far bigger driver than curiosity about old stuff, or an unbiased affection for old stuff gained as an adult.

It's partially a factor that Netflix just doesn't have much from before 1980 or so.

Quote from: Barrister on September 15, 2015, 11:58:31 AM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 15, 2015, 11:56:46 AM
Granted, nothing from before that, so childhood nostalgia may be a far bigger driver than curiosity about old stuff, or an unbiased affection for old stuff gained as an adult.

It's partially a factor that Netflix just doesn't have much from before 1980 or so.

I'll say.  Hell, their streaming collection kind of really sucks when it comes to any era, when you stop and think about it.  The fact that people, particularly young people, have so willingly given up disc service militates pretty strongly for Viper's point--the people with the "I want to watch something" mentality seem to outnumber the "I want to watch a particular movie, because I have made myself informed about it, and wish to either explore it or revisit it."

On the other hand, with Amazon's pay-per-view streaming service being so comprehensive (the only film recently I couldn't just pay to rent was 52 Pick-Up) folks might just be using Netflix as a bulk-buy supplement to their specific rental purchases.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 15, 2015, 11:56:46 AM
Actually, on the subject of whether people watch old movies, check out the "what's popular" row on Netflix

Netflix isn't actually mainstream, even in the US, I think...?  Most people are still on DVD/Blu ray player + TV.  Do we have market share for various medias like that?

Maybe viewing habits will change more as these services become more widely available.  I know Netflix isn't really popular in Quebec, but the language barrier is an issue.  That and the crappy Canadian offer.

Netflix is pretty mainstream in U.S. at least around my age group.

DVDs are expensive and rental stores extinct, so even oldsters have had to adapt.

Quote from: garbon on September 15, 2015, 12:59:07 PM
Netflix is pretty mainstream in U.S. at least around my age group.

Than I stand corrected.

I get the impression a lot of people use Netflix as a poor man's cable.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 15, 2015, 06:16:45 PM
I get the impression a lot of people use Netflix as a poor man's cable.

I use Netflix/Hulu because I'd rather watch what I want to watch when I want to watch it.

Quote from: frunk on September 15, 2015, 07:39:46 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 15, 2015, 06:16:45 PM
I get the impression a lot of people use Netflix as a poor man's cable.

I use Netflix/Hulu because I'd rather watch what I want to watch when I want to watch it.

that's why God gave us PVRs.

Quote from: viper37 on September 15, 2015, 10:38:19 PM

Quote from: frunk on September 15, 2015, 07:39:46 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 15, 2015, 06:16:45 PM
I get the impression a lot of people use Netflix as a poor man's cable.

I use Netflix/Hulu because I'd rather watch what I want to watch when I want to watch it.

that's why God gave us PVRs.

Even then it depends on knowing ahead of time that I'll want it.  If I miss a recording and it isn't repeated I'm out of luck.

Quote from: frunk on September 15, 2015, 11:24:19 PM

Quote from: viper37 on September 15, 2015, 10:38:19 PM

Quote from: frunk on September 15, 2015, 07:39:46 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 15, 2015, 06:16:45 PM
I get the impression a lot of people use Netflix as a poor man's cable.

I use Netflix/Hulu because I'd rather watch what I want to watch when I want to watch it.

that's why God gave us PVRs.

Even then it depends on knowing ahead of time that I'll want it.  If I miss a recording and it isn't repeated I'm out of luck.

I was just joking :) Netflix USA seem like a nice tool, but Netflix Canada isn't really practical.  Low quality and not many movies/tv series.

Why would they be different? That makes no sense.

Because Canada insists on being a separate country. :(

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 16, 2015, 09:48:55 AM
Because Canada insists on being a separate country. :(

What we need is Netflix Without Borders to step in.

Oh you don't have to worry about Borders anymore.

I watched Guardians of the Galaxy again and this time on a screen somewhat larger than those they have on planes. I like it still, but the best part remains the literal-gags, Saldana's tight pants, the soundtrack, Rocket/Groot-team but not the story.

Quote from: The Brain on September 16, 2015, 10:18:35 AM
Oh you don't have to worry about Borders anymore.

Barnes and Noble still lives :weep:

Re: netflix sucking.
I will see next month when they lose a shit tonne of films.
Already I wouldn't be paying for swiss netflix, the us one is a good tool for lazy people.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 13, 2015, 07:55:06 AM

Quote from: dps on September 13, 2015, 07:45:08 AM
Oh no, is Timmay going to start doing movie reviews?  That'll be worse than Ide doing them.

Well, not literally worse, of course, in that nothing is worse than Ide's tastes in movies, but worse in that if Timmay gets on a reviewing kick, he'll do a lot more of them than Ide does.  Or he'll just cut and paste 20,000 word reviews from dubious internet sources.

:blurgh:

You probably hate Sidney Lumet just as much as Joan Robinson does.

????