QuoteHow Marine Le Pen is winning France's gay vote
The Front National now has the support of a quarter of Paris's gay voters – and only 16 per cent of the straight ones
244 CommentsRachel Halliburton 24 January 2015
A week before the attack on Charlie Hebdo, France's leading gay magazine, Têtu, announced the winner of its annual beauty contest. His name was Matthieu Chartraire, and he was 22, doe-eyed and six-packed, with perfectly groomed hair, stubble and eyebrows. A pin-up in every way — until he started talking.
To the anger of many of the magazine's readers, the Adonis of 2015 turns out to be an outspoken supporter of the Front National. Têtu's editor-in-chief, Yannick Barbe, refused to play censor. 'It's within his rights to vote for the FN even if we don't share his beliefs,' he said. 'This is a beauty pageant, and our readers' vote was only based on a single criterion! He only stands for himself and not for the gay community.'
Barbe has a point (although from next year, it's worth noting, entrants for Têtu's beauty contest will have to sign a code of ethics that rejects discrimination). But his assertion that Chartraire does not stand for the gay community overlooks a trend that has been accelerating over the last decade: French gay votersare falling for the Front National's leader, Marine Le Pen. A survey by the polling firm Ifop indicates a dramatic increase in support for the FN among homosexual and bisexual voters since the French presidential elections of April 2012. It showed, for instance, that in Paris 26 per cent of homosexuals supported Le Pen, compared with 16 per cent of hetero-sexuals.
'After the financial crisis started you could tell that a switch [to the far right] was happening across the nation. But the fact that it was happening in the gay community was particularly telling,' Didier Lestrade, a gay activist who has written a book on the subject, tells me. 'We knew that not all gay people are from the left. Even so, it was hard for my generation [he is 56] to believe that anti-Arab and anti-black opinions were starting to pop up on apps like Grindr and Cruise.'
An insight into the phenomenon comes from Patrick McCarthy, a young gay blogger who lives in Bordeaux. 'Up until 2005, Bordeaux was a very gay-friendly city,' he says. 'Same-sex couples could openly walk down the street holding hands without any problems. However, in the space of two months, five gay men were murdered in the city. The blame was put on Bordeaux's Muslim community since some of these hate crimes were carried out by people of Arabic origins.'
The Bordeaux gay scene has dwindled since the attacks, but McCarthy says that he, like Lestrade, is alarmed at the way that assaults by a few Arabs have created a major polemical opposition between gays and Muslims. The Front National now offers a welcoming home to gay people who feel judged by Muslims and share wider concerns about immigration and the loss of French identity.
That gay men now feel comfortable with the Front National is the result of a deliberate effort by its leader, Marine Le Pen, who has pursued a programme of detoxification (the French term is 'de-diabolisation') ever since she took control of the party in 2011. Her father, Jean Marie Le Pen, who led the FN from its founding in 1972 until Marine took over, described homosexuality as a 'biological and social anomaly'. In the 1980s he argued that all individuals with Aids should be kept in isolation, and in the 1990s was still declaring that 'There are no queens in the National Front.'
By contrast, Marine has worked hard to expand the FN's membership beyond obvious bigots, racists and skinheads. She has publicly condemned anti-Semitism and insists that, far from being racist, her party is the only one that defends secularity and democracy against Islamisation. A key part of this strategy is using the Islamist threat to court the sort of people that the far right has traditionally persecuted. It's working. In the 2012 presidential elections, Le Pen won 13.5 per cent of the Jewish vote. A surprising enough statistic, but her appeal to gay activists has created even more waves. Just before Christmas, her deputy Florian Philippot was outed as gay by Closer: the same magazine that exposed Hollande's affair with Julie Gayet. Around the same time, Le Pen appointed a new adviser: Sébastien Chenu, one of the founders of the activist organisation GayLib. FN traditionalists complained loudly that their party was being taken over by a gay cabal. (Those complaining included Marine's 25-year-old niece, Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, an MP and a rising star in the party.)
What, beyond support against the threat of Islamic fundamentalists, does Marine Le Pen's FN claim to offer to a gay political activist? Officially Le Pen does not support the legalisation of gay marriage, which the French government passed last year. But like other far right leaders in Europe, notably Geert Wilders of Holland's Freedom party, she sees the value of the gay vote. When huge demonstrations were held against gay marriage in Paris in 2013, she refused to take part. She seems able to walk the conceptual tightrope between what her party's old membership wants and what its potential members need to hear. Her response to the outing of Philipott was to attack Closer and change the subject: 'Florian Philippot is entitled to a private life as much as François Hollande,' she said.
Switching attention back to the hapless president was a shrewd move. Hollande's dismal popularity ratings (at the end of last year they sank to 12 per cent, the lowest recorded score for a sitting president) also contribute to the Front National's success. Although Hollande pushed through the legalisation of gay marriage last year, many left-wing gay voters were disappointed that he failed to give the bill his personal support until the last minute. The centre-right UMP, meanwhile, issued a legal challenge the moment the bill had been approved by vote. Even critics such as Lestrade recognise that the FN offers more to ambitious young gay political activists than the more mainstream parties. 'I think if you are gay, you're going to make a difference there in a way you won't get a chance to in the Socialist party or the UMP,' he says.
Bruno Clavet is an out and proud gay activist for the FN. A politics graduate and a former underwear model, he tells me that when he was 18 he worked for Nicolas Sarkozy during the 2007 presidential election, but switched to the FN just before the most recent one. I ask him if it troubles him that his party has a strong anti-gay past. 'I don't think the FN is anti-gay,' he replies. 'We are against ghettoisation [into racial or sexual communities]. For me there is only one community, it's the national community — the French people.' This is the new spirit of French nationalism, one that resonates loudly in the aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo attack.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9420662/how-marine-le-pen-is-winning-frances-gay-vote/
The article is 2 months old but still an interesting read.
Pim already dunnit.
Well, Pim was openly gay himself so it is a bit different. Still, I don't blame gay people for not wanting to live in Saudi Arabia.
Do bisexual voters get two votes?
Quote from: Martinus on March 31, 2015, 09:28:08 AM
QuoteHow Marine Le Pen is winning France's gay vote
....
. FN traditionalists complained loudly that their party was being taken over by a gay cabal. (Those complaining included Marine's 25-year-old niece, Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, an MP and a rising star in the party.)
.....
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9420662/how-marine-le-pen-is-winning-frances-gay-vote/
The article is 2 months old but still an interesting read.
Leaving aside the 'substance' of the article for a moment, last night I saw an interview with her, found her an eloquent but rather distrubing individual, reminded me of Leni Riefenstahlat her most 'focused'
I am pretty sure why have a gay news thread that Marti updates regularly :hmm:
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 31, 2015, 10:27:30 AM
I am pretty sure why have a gay news thread that Marti updates regularly :hmm:
This thread achieves singularity of combining European politics, gays, France and muslim megathreads.
Quote from: Martinus on March 31, 2015, 11:45:14 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 31, 2015, 10:27:30 AM
I am pretty sure why have a gay news thread that Marti updates regularly :hmm:
This thread achieves singularity of combining European politics, gays, France and muslim megathreads.
:lol:
Quote from: Martinus on March 31, 2015, 11:45:14 AM
This thread achieves singularity of combining European politics, gays, France and muslim megathreads.
Mind blown
Why would we need a France megathread? :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on March 31, 2015, 01:08:28 PM
Why would we need a France megathread? :hmm:
For my insightful commentaries on the Constitution of 1793 of course.
THE OFFICIAL FRANCE MEGATHREAD
France sucks.
le fin
:hug:
Quote from: Caliga on March 31, 2015, 01:31:56 PM
THE OFFICIAL FRANCE MEGATHREAD
France sucks.
le fin
:hug:
hey now
The lack of gas station food really bothers him.
Naw, I actually like French food. escargot :mmm:
Can you get escargot at French gas stations?
Yeah I was about to say: I would be shocked if you couldn't :lol:
Thanks
Bigot picks on minorities. Wins support of useful idiots :bleeding:
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 31, 2015, 03:56:01 PM
Bigot picks on minorities. Wins support of useful idiots :bleeding:
I suppose you think supporting more immigration of violently homophobic Muslims to Europe is more reasonable.
Quote from: Ancient Demon on March 31, 2015, 06:39:14 PM
I suppose you think supporting more immigration of violently homophobic Muslims to Europe is more reasonable.
He probably does, he's a product of 'multikulti' infected England after all. They'll go on singing the praises of the slavering monsters until their throats are slit, once said monsters no longer have any use for them.
G.
Bigot picks on minorities. Wins support of useful idiots :bleeding:
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 31, 2015, 03:56:01 PM
Bigot picks on minorities. Wins support of useful idiots :bleeding:
Don't be so hard on yourself. You are only indirectly supporting the right of anti-gay muslim clerics to call for the deaths of gays in Britain. :P
Quote from: Grallon on March 31, 2015, 07:29:23 PM
They'll go on singing the praises of the slavering monsters until their throats are slit, once said monsters no longer have any use for them.
G.
You think the FN will slit the gays's throats once they both got rid of the Muslims? I wouldn't put it past them, in the search for a pure France. After all homosexuality is kinda incompatible with the old catholic mentality.
Quote from: grumbler on March 31, 2015, 08:48:27 PM
Bigot picks on minorities. Wins support of useful idiots :bleeding:
Oh look, the one trick donkey is braying again :rolleyes:
G.
Quote from: Grallon on March 31, 2015, 07:29:23 PM
Quote from: Ancient Demon on March 31, 2015, 06:39:14 PM
I suppose you think supporting more immigration of violently homophobic Muslims to Europe is more reasonable.
He probably does, he's a product of 'multikulti' infected England after all. They'll go on singing the praises of the slavering monsters until their throats are slit, once said monsters no longer have any use for them.
G.
Actually, that describes you fairly well.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fn5U2UaJ.jpg&hash=1921eb4f56ea0155e3cd8fcdaf26fe37453edf67)
Yowza.
Quote from: viper37 on April 01, 2015, 09:04:12 AM
You think the FN will slit the gays's throats once they both got rid of the Muslims? I wouldn't put it past them, in the search for a pure France. After all homosexuality is kinda incompatible with the old catholic mentality.
As I was writing until my godsdamned connection failed, to think the FN, once in power, would start opening concentration camps and vote racists laws is intensely stupid - see the above poster. The FN's popularity is in direct proportion with the obtuse denial of the excesses of globalization and 'communautarism' as they call multiculturalism in continental Europe. Keep on with you head in the sand and the FN will keep on garnering support.
G.
So what will they do to the Muslims and the Jews, the Gypsies and the gays?
Quote from: Martinus on April 01, 2015, 12:43:31 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 31, 2015, 03:56:01 PM
Bigot picks on minorities. Wins support of useful idiots :bleeding:
Don't be so hard on yourself. You are only indirectly supporting the right of anti-gay muslim clerics to call for the deaths of gays in Britain. :P
If they're inciting they should be prosecuted.
I can oppose Islamophobia and homophobia at the same time, also walk and chew gum :P
QuoteI suppose you think supporting more immigration of violently homophobic Muslims to Europe is more reasonable.
In general on this sort of thing I'm pretty liberal, I've always supported immigration and I still do. It's Europe's only future. But obviously homophobia and violence are unacceptable and should be confronted, as should the politics of the far-right.
QuoteWell, Pim was openly gay himself so it is a bit different. Still, I don't blame gay people for not wanting to live in Saudi Arabia.
Also Pim's party was entirely new. The FN have, within the past couple of years, campaigned against gay marriage and, within the last decade, been lead by a Holocaust denier.
Quote from: derspiess on April 01, 2015, 11:43:46 AM
Yowza.
You use a Nazi avatar and you ramble on about the slavering monsters then you get the pink triangle Holocaust picture. It Missouri law. Well actually it's city ordnance in Otterville, but it's in Missouri and it's lawish.
Quote from: Grallon on April 01, 2015, 12:39:44 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 01, 2015, 09:04:12 AM
You think the FN will slit the gays's throats once they both got rid of the Muslims? I wouldn't put it past them, in the search for a pure France. After all homosexuality is kinda incompatible with the old catholic mentality.
As I was writing until my godsdamned connection failed, to think the FN, once in power, would start opening concentration camps and vote racists laws is intensely stupid - see the above poster. The FN's popularity is in direct proportion with the obtuse denial of the excesses of globalization and 'communautarism' as they call multiculturalism in continental Europe. Keep on with you head in the sand and the FN will keep on garnering support.
G.
whose having head in the sand here, I really wonder.
On the one hand, you got a peaceful population, with slight intolerance toward homosexuality and out of wedlock relations. Among that large population, a few groups of extremists are making lots of noise and poisoning the lives of this peaceful population and the larger one that included them. Then you listen to the extremists, decide all the population is like that, so you ally with bigger extremists to rout them.
It seems to me that history is filled with examples like that.
Well, recently, I think there were Sunnites in Irak thinking like this. Al Maliki was the biggest threat, thinking otherwise was having your head in the sand. So they allied with ISIS to get rid of Maliki and his intolerant government. Once ISIS assumed control, they started murdering the Sunni cheiks, than the Sunni population who resisted, along with the Shiites. The guys who said ISIS was not a problem and they would take care of them right after Maliki was goned were, of course, killed first.
So. France now. While I don't think the FN would use mass murder as tool of intimidation, I have a really hard time imaging them as gay friendly, once they get rid of the common ennemy.
But I may be wrong. There may be examples out there of an extreme right wing party who became very friendly to gays once they achieve power.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 01, 2015, 01:27:18 PMI've always supported immigration and I still do.
I find statements like that very frustrating, like immigration has to be all or nothing.
This is the discussion we have had countless of times and it has always gone like this. No point in rehashing it for the 100th time.
What troubles me is that to people like Sheilbh the people putting forth a counter-argument to his position are either "bigots" or "useful idiots". You cannot have a civil discussion when one side demonises the other.
Because the concerns over immigrants from Muslim countries bringing with them attitudes and cultural values that many people - including minorities such as Jews or gays; or women - are threatened by are legitimate. The answer is not to "deport them all" or to stop immigration - but the answer is needed, and you can't just tell people who have these concerns that they are delusional or uninformed rubes.
And this is exactly the reason why parties like FN gain in popularity - because stances like Sheilbh's (i.e. a refusal to even acknowledge these concerns are legitimate and engage in a discussion without name calling) are all too common in the "mainstream".
Well if the other side is happy to jump into bed with a party of racists...
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 01:29:12 AM
Well if the other side is happy to jump into bed with a party of racists...
Wow, have you even read what I wrote? :huh:
Yeah and I don't buy it. If one is concerned about immigration there aren't only two options of do nothing and support a party founded on hate.
I rest my case. Let's get back to name calling.
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 02:06:18 AM
Yeah and I don't buy it. If one is concerned about immigration there aren't only two options of do nothing and support a party founded on hate.
In Sweden 7 parties in parliament support the current open door policy to flood the country with Muslims and not encourage assimilation. 1 party in parliament does not (SD). SD is what you would call a party founded on hate. Other parties that a concerned voter has to choose between include the hopelessly marginal Nazi parties.
Yup. In France the situation is the same (or, for Jewish people, you can also choose to emigrate to Israel).
I just realised garbon votes Republican. Sorry, should have realised it was a troll. :lol:
Now that's a knee slapper.
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 02:22:40 AM
Now that's a knee slapper.
Sorry, but everything you or Sheilbh say about Front Nationale here can be easily said about the GOP.
Parts of it, sure. Course the other aspect is my unwavering GOP support.
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 02:25:37 AM
Parts of it, sure. Course the other aspect is my unwavering GOP support.
Do you think gays and Jews voting for Front Nationale do so out of "unwavering support"?
You tell me. I will say that FN seems much more closely linked to hate than the rather wide Republican party. But then that's probably doable when you are a much smaller party.
To be honest, I think gay and Jews voting for Front Nationale are being rather lazy. If I was fearful of attacks in my daily living, I wouldn't spend my efforts on voting for FN and calling it a day...I think I'd rather try to develop some cogent thoughts and arrange rallies in an effort to get political support. Well assuming I didn't just move away from those unsafe locales. :D
So it's their (gays 'n Jews) fault and not the fault of the non-FN parties for either ignoring the problem or actively working to make the problem worse?
I don't think I said anything about whose "fault" it is for gays being attacked on the streets. :huh:
The impact of all these immigrants from similar cultures does seem to justify the US' quota system in immigration. I always thought that was a perverse policy but I guess it was put in place to combat the sorts of problems they have in Europe. At least the ones not caused by having political entities created to serve ethnic groups.
Quote from: The Brain on April 02, 2015, 02:14:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 02:06:18 AM
Yeah and I don't buy it. If one is concerned about immigration there aren't only two options of do nothing and support a party founded on hate.
In Sweden 7 parties in parliament support the current open door policy to flood the country with Muslims and not encourage assimilation. 1 party in parliament does not (SD). SD is what you would call a party founded on hate. Other parties that a concerned voter has to choose between include the hopelessly marginal Nazi parties.
That is the stated goal on the party platform? Open door policy to flood country with Muslims? Are there also 7 parties in Sweden supporting enslavement of the world by Judo-Bolshevik forces and one that is not?
I was curious who you were talking about. I'm assuming that the SD is the Swedish Democrats. Interesting bunch, they sought connections with the David Duke's people (KKK), and seems to be born of fascist and racist groups. I'd say they were founded on hate.
Using American solutions to European problems is not really a great idea as circumstances are different.
Firstly, Europe borders a lot of areas with potential asylum seekers often coming from cultures much different than European. In the US the only comparable issue is the Mexican borders - and Mexicans are much more similar to Americans than Arabs are to Europeans - which doesnt prevent America from being heavily divided about Mexican immigration in any case. The colonial legacy creates similar problems that the US does not have.
Secondly, Europe is much more socialist/welfare oriented and for such policies to work you need to have a greater cohesiveness of a society - something difficult to achieve in a very diverse society as there appears a free rider problem.
Thirdly, European national identity is much more ethnicity-centric than the US one.
Only the third issue can be somewhat mitigated through policy change.
Quote from: Martinus on April 02, 2015, 09:56:13 AM
Using American solutions to European problems is not really a great idea as circumstances are different.
Firstly, Europe borders a lot of areas with potential asylum seekers often coming from cultures much different than European. In the US the only comparable issue is the Mexican borders - and Mexicans are much more similar to Americans than Arabs are to Europeans - which doesnt prevent America from being heavily divided about Mexican immigration in any case. The colonial legacy creates similar problems that the US does not have.
Not sure what your point is here. Having loads of immigrants from one similar culture group causes problems and your rebuttal is 'look how that thing you said was a problem is a problem in America'. Granted the Mexicans are not a big deal at all, we are practically brothers. But any kind of mass immigration like this is going to create problems. Not sure how the colonial legacy is that different. We have one, certainly enough to create issues between us and Latin America (among other places).
QuoteSecondly, Europe is much more socialist/welfare oriented and for such policies to work you need to have a greater cohesiveness of a society - something difficult to achieve in a very diverse society as there appears a free rider problem.
More? Sure. "Much more"? No. We have pretty extensive welfare and social programs and this is a huge reason why people get upset over the illegal immigrants (in addition to homegrown 'free riders'). These problems are ones we have been wrestling with for decades.
QuoteThirdly, European national identity is much more ethnicity-centric than the US one.
Only the third issue can be somewhat mitigated through policy change.
Yes, that is what I said. But I was just talking about one thing: the quota system and why maybe it was not such a bad idea as much as I hate it. I was not saying maybe every Euro government should introduce it.
Quote from: Martinus on April 02, 2015, 09:56:13 AM
Using American solutions to European problems is not really a great idea as circumstances are different.
Firstly, Europe borders a lot of areas with potential asylum seekers often coming from cultures much different than European. In the US the only comparable issue is the Mexican borders - and Mexicans are much more similar to Americans than Arabs are to Europeans - which doesnt prevent America from being heavily divided about Mexican immigration in any case. The colonial legacy creates similar problems that the US does not have.
Secondly, Europe is much more socialist/welfare oriented and for such policies to work you need to have a greater cohesiveness of a society - something difficult to achieve in a very diverse society as there appears a free rider problem.
Thirdly, European national identity is much more ethnicity-centric than the US one.
Only the third issue can be somewhat mitigated through policy change.
Uh, we get lots of asylum seekers that are different in culture from us and just plain immigrants from all over the world. The second argument doesn't really make any sense. I think the "problem" you are alluding to, is that white Europeans are more likely to resent non-white Europeans getting welfare then other white Europeans getting the same service. We have the same problem here. The third one is a serious problem, and is probably on the mark.
Nonsense. The Brits, if anything, hate the white Europeans more. I think you are projecting New World Racism on the Old World. It doesn't work, they are far more ethnically conscious than we are.
Quote from: Valmy on April 02, 2015, 10:24:52 AM
Nonsense. The Brits, if anything, hate the white Europeans more. I think you are projecting New World Racism on the Old World. It doesn't work, they are far more ethnically conscious than we are.
You honestly think they the Brits hate Polish immigrants more then Pakistani ones?
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 09:37:31 AM
I don't think I said anything about whose "fault" it is for gays being attacked on the streets. :huh:
That's not what I was talking about. You're accusing them of being lazy for just supporting FN and not holding rallies & whatnot (is that actually the case, btw?). Whereas IMO the big issue (blame, if you will) is with the mainstream parties that don't address their concerns.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 02, 2015, 10:48:30 AM
You honestly think they the Brits hate Polish immigrants more then Pakistani ones?
The EU and its immigrants are the thing spawning the right wing parties, not the Pakistani ones.
Quote from: derspiess on April 02, 2015, 10:52:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 09:37:31 AM
I don't think I said anything about whose "fault" it is for gays being attacked on the streets. :huh:
That's not what I was talking about. You're accusing them of being lazy for just supporting FN and not holding rallies & whatnot (is that actually the case, btw?). Whereas IMO the big issue (blame, if you will) is with the mainstream parties that don't address their concerns.
I would think the blame would land firmly on the hands of the perpetrators, no? And then I guess maybe the governments in power that don't make it loud and clear that such behavior will not be tolerated.
We're not even close to talking about the same thing. Never mind.
Quote from: derspiess on April 02, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
We're not even close to talking about the same thing. Never mind.
Well is the concern that Muslims are being to be moved in or that they are being put in danger?
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 11:32:48 AM
Well is the concern that Muslims are being to be moved in or that they are being put in danger?
It is threatening in places with ethnic and religious identity to have lots of outsiders move in. Even ones where those things are not as emphasized as they used to be. It is an elephant in the room people do not want to address. What will be the impact of lots of people from another ethnicity/culture have on the erm 'Germanness' of Germany? And if Germany does not have Germanness than what is the point of it exactly?
Quote from: Valmy on April 02, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 11:32:48 AM
Well is the concern that Muslims are being to be moved in or that they are being put in danger?
It is threatening in places with ethnic and religious identity to have lots of outsiders move in. Even ones where those things are not as emphasized as they used to be. It is an elephant in the room people do not want to address. What will be the impact of lots of people from another ethnicity/culture have on the erm 'Germanness' of Germany? And if Germany does not have Germanness than what is the point of it exactly?
Then yes, I'm entirely unsympathetic to that.
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 11:57:24 AM
Then yes, I'm entirely unsympathetic to that.
I know. Nor am I saying you should be.
Quote from: derspiess on April 02, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
We're not even close to talking about the same thing. Never mind.
Welcome to "discussing" with garbon.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 02, 2015, 09:52:36 AM
Quote from: The Brain on April 02, 2015, 02:14:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2015, 02:06:18 AM
Yeah and I don't buy it. If one is concerned about immigration there aren't only two options of do nothing and support a party founded on hate.
In Sweden 7 parties in parliament support the current open door policy to flood the country with Muslims and not encourage assimilation. 1 party in parliament does not (SD). SD is what you would call a party founded on hate. Other parties that a concerned voter has to choose between include the hopelessly marginal Nazi parties.
That is the stated goal on the party platform? Open door policy to flood country with Muslims? Are there also 7 parties in Sweden supporting enslavement of the world by Judo-Bolshevik forces and one that is not?
I was curious who you were talking about. I'm assuming that the SD is the Swedish Democrats. Interesting bunch, they sought connections with the David Duke's people (KKK), and seems to be born of fascist and racist groups. I'd say they were founded on hate.
The 7 parties are willing to compromise on every issue except extremely liberal immigration by "refugees" from Africa and the Middle East.
Where did your Judo-Bolshevik forces come from? And I just said that SD is a party that garbon would consider to be founded on hate. It has its roots in pseudo-Nazis FFS.
Quote from: Martinus on April 02, 2015, 01:58:45 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 02, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
We're not even close to talking about the same thing. Never mind.
Welcome to "discussing" with garbon.
:huh: I've had any number of intellectual discussions with garbo here. I've had maybe two discussions since you came back where I thought you were being intellectual.
Quote from: The Brain on April 02, 2015, 01:59:49 PM
The 7 parties are willing to compromise on every issue except extremely liberal immigration by "refugees" from Africa and the Middle East.
Where did your Judo-Bolshevik forces come from? And I just said that SD is a party that garbon would consider to be founded on hate. It has its roots in pseudo-Nazis FFS.
Judeo-Bolsheviks are who the Nazis opposed and believed anyone not on their side was aligned with.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 02, 2015, 03:00:39 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 02, 2015, 01:59:49 PM
The 7 parties are willing to compromise on every issue except extremely liberal immigration by "refugees" from Africa and the Middle East.
Where did your Judo-Bolshevik forces come from? And I just said that SD is a party that garbon would consider to be founded on hate. It has its roots in pseudo-Nazis FFS.
Judeo-Bolsheviks are who the Nazis opposed and believed anyone not on their side was aligned with.
Are you a Nazi?
No, I'm not a European.
Quote from: Martinus on April 02, 2015, 01:58:45 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 02, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
We're not even close to talking about the same thing. Never mind.
Welcome to "discussing" with garbon.
Garbon never discusses, he poses and then adapts his poses according to the where the wind blows!
-----
One one hand the problem is no longer Pakistanis or Afghanis or Morrocans, as it used to be in pre-War Europe, the problem is the incompatible cultural background these people carry with them like so much unwanted baggage. On the other, there's the debilitating effects 'communautarism' or 'multiculturalism' has on western populations, who gradually become incapable of reacting to the threat, much like AIDS weakens the immune system against even the most common of diseases. In fact it is so insidious as to even induce the denial there's a threat in the first place! Hence why Europe is under invasion.
G.
I guess the sled dog got to the server with your post.
:lol:
Poor FN
https://www.yahoo.com/news/gay-pride-march-splits-french-hard-171025885.html?nhp=1
QuoteGay Pride march sparks French hard Right row
A Gay Pride march in Paris Saturday has caused a row in France's hard Right National Front (FN), with some student supporters backing an event decried by a party vice-chairman.
"More than ever necessary after the homophobic attack in Orlando, we wish a good (Gay Pride) to all," tweeted the association of FN students at the Paris Institute of Political Studies.
The tweet, just as the march started in the capital, was met with consternation however from other FN supporters -- not least vice-president Louis Aliot, who took to Twitter to give an entirely different line.
"The FN does not support the Gay Pride March, an exhibitionist and anti-FN symbol of militant communitarianism," Aliot said in a message retweeted by FN lawmaker Marion Marechal-Le Pen, niece of party FN president Marine Le Pen.
Another party vice-president, Marie-Christine Arnautu, as well as the leader of the party's youth wing Gaetan Dussausaye, also disapproved of the pro-march message from the Sciences Po grouping.
Dussausaye said it was "out of the question... to support the Gay Pride march".
Arnautu also expressed astonishment while FN regional councillor Axel Loustau indicated that "hoisting aloft one's sexuality as a standard is as indecent and measly as homophobia."
There was no immediate reaction from another party vice-president Florian Philippot -- outed two years ago by a French magazine, Closer, as gay.
At the time, decrying an attack on his private life by the magazine, Philippot insisted that "the FN is not gay friendly, (but) it is not the opposite either. It is French friendly."
Former FN leader Jean-Marie Le Pen once indicated he saw homosexuality as a "biological and social anomaly" although Marine Le Pen, his daughter, has sought to soften the party line in advocating, for instance, civil partnerships for same-sex couples.
Thousands of people took to the streets for Saturday's march amid tight if discreet security three weeks after the attack on a Florida nightclub which killed 49 people.
"Three weeks on from the LGBT-phobic and racist attack in Orlando, to march is an act of resistance. We must not give in to fear," insisted Amandine Miguel, spokesperson for organisers Inter-LGBT association.
On Paris's Place de la Bastille, marchers stopped to observe a minute's silence in memory of the Florida victims.
Some 1,000 police were on hand along the 4.6 kilometre (three mile) route, reduced by a third from the normal route eight months on from the Paris attacks.
The march usually takes place one week earlier but was put back with France still hosting the group phase of Euro 2016.
In Spain, meanwhile, Gay Pride marchers also took to the streets, chanting slogans such as "I am bisexual, bisexual, bisexual".
One banner at the head of the march was emblazoned with the words "2016, year of visibility for bisexuality..."