I just heard a story on the radio about a Mexican guy who apparently came illegally to the US when he was 1 (with his parents) and got deported when he was 19. What do you think about situations like that?
I personally think we need to reform immigration to make it easier to come in legally from Mexico.
But I do think illegal immigrants, when found, should be deported.
Yes, they should. But IMO we should make legal immigration much, much easier. I'm in favor of nearly-open borders, personally. Until that changes though, existing laws ought to be enforced.
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2009, 01:28:20 PM
I personally think we need to reform immigration to make it easier to come in legally from Mexico.
But I do think illegal immigrants, when found, should be deported.
:hug: Brother!
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2009, 01:28:20 PM
I personally think we need to reform immigration to make it easier to come in legally from Mexico.
But I do think illegal immigrants, when found, should be deported.
Even in a situation like that? The guy pretty much is an American. He probably doesn't speak much Spanish. He got schooled with your money and now is a qualified employee. It's both unfair and wasteful to deport him.
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 01:29:31 PM
Even in a situation like that? The guy pretty much is an American. He probably doesn't speak much Spanish. He got schooled with your money and now is a qualified employee. It's both unfair and wasteful to deport him.
He should get a greencard like everybody else if he really is a qualified employee.
Why should we require that of other foreigners we hire and not this guy? Because he was smuggled into the country?
I'm a big fan of orderly societies, which in part require law enforcement to uphold existing law even if they don't like them. Otherwise you have selective enforcement and chaos ensues.
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:32:58 PM
I'm a big fan of orderly societies, which in part require law enforcement to uphold existing law even if they don't like them. Otherwise you have selective enforcement and chaos ensues.
Wow we really are of one mind on this issue.
From now on I deputize Caliga to speak for me on all illegal immigration issues.
In my opinion, it makes more sense to execute them.
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:32:58 PM
I'm a big fan of orderly societies, which in part require law enforcement to uphold existing law even if they don't like them. Otherwise you have selective enforcement and chaos ensues.
Consistency is certainly a consideration, but in this particular instance it appears to work an injustice - as the infant did not himself break any law, but rather a law was broken on his behalf by others.
My opinion is - keep consistency as a general rule but be willing to bend it to avoid injustice.
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2009, 01:28:20 PM
I personally think we need to reform immigration to make it easier to come in legally from Mexico.
I used to think that. I guess I'm still in favor of some sort of guest worker program, though.
QuoteBut I do think illegal immigrants, when found, should be deported.
Yeppers.
Quote from: Neil on June 17, 2009, 01:37:27 PM
In my opinion, it makes more sense to execute them.
Agreed. Deporting someone who's for all intents and purposes an American to Mexico strikes me as extremely inhumane.
Quote from: Malthus on June 17, 2009, 01:38:38 PM
Consistency is certainly a consideration, but in this particular instance it appears to work an injustice - as the infant did not himself break any law, but rather a law was broken on his behalf by others.
My opinion is - keep consistency as a general rule but be willing to bend it to avoid injustice.
I agree with you when we're talking about certain situations that are nearly universally regarded as immoral (genocide, for example). But you have to draw a line somewhere. I don't think deportation--which lacks any sense of permanence in my mind--is on the genocide side of that line.
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:41:58 PM
I agree with you when we're talking about certain situations that are nearly universally regarded as immoral (genocide, for example). But you have to draw a line somewhere. I don't think deportation--which lacks any sense of permanence in my mind--is on the genocide side of that line.
What if said individual can't speak Spanish? What sort of life is he expected to have in Mexico?
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2009, 01:50:16 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:41:58 PM
I agree with you when we're talking about certain situations that are nearly universally regarded as immoral (genocide, for example). But you have to draw a line somewhere. I don't think deportation--which lacks any sense of permanence in my mind--is on the genocide side of that line.
What if said individual can't speak Spanish? What sort of life is he expected to have in Mexico?
Maybe he shouldn't do crimes.
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2009, 01:50:16 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:41:58 PM
I agree with you when we're talking about certain situations that are nearly universally regarded as immoral (genocide, for example). But you have to draw a line somewhere. I don't think deportation--which lacks any sense of permanence in my mind--is on the genocide side of that line.
What if said individual can't speak Spanish? What sort of life is he expected to have in Mexico?
If he's not an American citizen and not even legally in the United States, I don't think it's the role of the government to care about his quality of life. If it was then John Demjanjuk probably wouldn't have been deported to Germany last month.
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2009, 01:50:16 PM
What if said individual can't speak Spanish? What sort of life is he expected to have in Mexico?
Unlikely, but I'm sure they'd pick it up eventually :)
Yeah, it's easy to learn. I learned "tengo un pene grande" after a single repetition. :)
Why not give automatic green cards to people who spent the last several years (we can debate the time period) of their minority in the US, and haven't left since?
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:53:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2009, 01:50:16 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:41:58 PM
I agree with you when we're talking about certain situations that are nearly universally regarded as immoral (genocide, for example). But you have to draw a line somewhere. I don't think deportation--which lacks any sense of permanence in my mind--is on the genocide side of that line.
What if said individual can't speak Spanish? What sort of life is he expected to have in Mexico?
If he's not an American citizen and not even legally in the United States, I don't think it's the role of the government to care about his quality of life. If it was then John Demjanjuk probably wouldn't have been deported to Germany last month.
Whoa, a death camp guard = an innocent kid who parents broke immigration laws. Great analogy!
To be honest, I am pretty surprised by Caliga's and Valmy's position. I thought they weren't retards. :(
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 02:00:22 PM
To be honest, I am pretty surprised by Caliga's and Valmy's position. I thought they weren't retards. :(
I wonder if you are forgetting the part of my initial post where I said (I assume in agreement with you) that I think our immigration laws are too strict and should be changed? I am in favor of virtually open immigration. However, until we have that, I don't think we can ignore the laws we already have. I think that sets an extremely dangerous precedent.
I think realistically we all know that many laws are already selectively enforced, but to make a consistent exception to one is to effectively nullify it, and I don't think law enforcement should be granted the right to nullify.
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:53:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2009, 01:50:16 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:41:58 PM
I agree with you when we're talking about certain situations that are nearly universally regarded as immoral (genocide, for example). But you have to draw a line somewhere. I don't think deportation--which lacks any sense of permanence in my mind--is on the genocide side of that line.
What if said individual can't speak Spanish? What sort of life is he expected to have in Mexico?
If he's not an American citizen and not even legally in the United States, I don't think it's the role of the government to care about his quality of life. If it was then John Demjanjuk probably wouldn't have been deported to Germany last month.
Would you still be of this opinion if you suddenly learned that your parents were illegal immigrants, and just didn't tell you about it? :lol:
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 01:59:32 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:53:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2009, 01:50:16 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:41:58 PM
I agree with you when we're talking about certain situations that are nearly universally regarded as immoral (genocide, for example). But you have to draw a line somewhere. I don't think deportation--which lacks any sense of permanence in my mind--is on the genocide side of that line.
What if said individual can't speak Spanish? What sort of life is he expected to have in Mexico?
If he's not an American citizen and not even legally in the United States, I don't think it's the role of the government to care about his quality of life. If it was then John Demjanjuk probably wouldn't have been deported to Germany last month.
Whoa, a death camp guard = an innocent kid who parents broke immigration laws. Great analogy!
Not innocent. He's guilty of crimes.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 17, 2009, 01:56:44 PM
Why not give automatic green cards to people who spent the last several years (we can debate the time period) of their minority in the US, and haven't left since?
Because then every family member still back in Mexico would follow.
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 01:59:32 PMWhoa, a death camp guard = an innocent kid who parents broke immigration laws. Great analogy!
I thought the analogy was pretty good: your theoretical Mexican kid and Demjanjuk are both deemed unworthy of remaining in the country, and are both likely to be put into peril. He might have been a death camp guard but he's like 90 now and seems to be an invalid. I don't think his past, disturbing as it may be, is directly relevant to the example.
Honestly I wouldn't have used Demjanjuk if I knew of a better real-life example.
Quote from: Malthus on June 17, 2009, 02:05:30 PMWould you still be of this opinion if you suddenly learned that your parents were illegal immigrants, and just didn't tell you about it? :lol:
Of course it wouldn't be, but all opinions are colored by personal experiences. Right, Judge Sotomayor? :)
Actually, if they were illegal immigrants from Switzerland or something, it might still be my opinion anyway :punk:
Quote from: derspiess on June 17, 2009, 02:07:06 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 17, 2009, 01:56:44 PM
Why not give automatic green cards to people who spent the last several years (we can debate the time period) of their minority in the US, and haven't left since?
Because then every family member still back in Mexico would follow.
Then make it so they can't bring into the country more than their wife and kids. That seems a poor reason to deport someone who has lived in this country all of their conscious lives.
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 01:25:22 PM
I just heard a story on the radio about a Mexican guy who apparently came illegally to the US when he was 1 (with his parents) and got deported when he was 19. What do you think about situations like that?
Nothing. Being sent back to your country isn't even a punishment.
That's a strange story.
He doesn't speak much Spanish? How is that possible if he's with his parents...Sounds a bit like a urban legend I've heard about a 40something year old man discovering his parents never completed the paperwork properly when they immigrated when he was a baby and so he's now getting sent to some horrible war-torn country.
I suppose really the line of Americaness should be moved away from the current one of birth and into sentinence. Lets say 4 year old.
The whole thing they have about being born in America is quite silly really in so many ways.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 17, 2009, 01:56:44 PM
Why not give automatic green cards to people who spent the last several years (we can debate the time period) of their minority in the US, and haven't left since?
Because it gives a huge incentive to enter the country illegally. If you can get away with it long enough you get a green card!
Should Martinus be deported?
Quote from: Barrister on June 17, 2009, 03:03:58 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 17, 2009, 01:56:44 PM
Why not give automatic green cards to people who spent the last several years (we can debate the time period) of their minority in the US, and haven't left since?
Because it gives a huge incentive to enter the country illegally. If you can get away with it long enough you get a green card!
So we will see a flood of 8 year olds coming because they know that once they turn 18 they can have a green card?
Quote from: Barrister on June 17, 2009, 03:03:58 PMBecause it gives a huge incentive to enter the country illegally. If you can get away with it long enough you get a green card!
:yes:
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 01:25:22 PM
I just heard a story on the radio about a Mexican guy who apparently came illegally to the US when he was 1 (with his parents) and got deported when he was 19. What do you think about situations like that?
I would offer them a way to regularize their situation in such cas as where they've been here for a very long time, especially if they came here is kids and had no say in this.
But I'm a bleeding heart liberal, I suppose.
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 01:25:22 PM
I just heard a story on the radio about a Mexican guy who apparently came illegally to the US when he was 1 (with his parents) and got deported when he was 19. What do you think about situations like that?
He would have committed some other crime to be deported. ICE does not have the budget or personnel to go around deporting illegals without some reason.
Quote from: lustindarkness on June 17, 2009, 03:14:30 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 17, 2009, 03:12:45 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 17, 2009, 03:08:13 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 17, 2009, 03:06:29 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 17, 2009, 03:04:17 PM
Should Martinus be deported?
Into the sun.
Sure. Or Russia.
Or Alabama without a cellphone or internet.
Tuscaloosa afetr Bama losses a game.
Roll Tide.
This is currently one of the most popular ways to immigrate to Sweden.
They're called "single coming refugee children" and are as much as 40 years old but since they are "paperless refugees" it cannot be proven that they are not children and thus they must be allowed to stay.
Another term is "anchorbaby" since they inevitably suddenly have parents and cousins and siblings and aunts and uncles once they get permanent residency.
It's a wonderful world.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 17, 2009, 03:05:23 PM
So we will see a flood of 8 year olds coming because they know that once they turn 18 they can have a green card?
:yes: That seems like a likely outcome.
Quote from: Slargos on June 17, 2009, 03:24:37 PM
This is currently one of the most popular ways to immigrate to Sweden.
They're called "single coming refugee children" and are as much as 40 years old but since they are "paperless refugees" it cannot be proven that they are not children and thus they must be allowed to stay.
Another term is "anchorbaby" since they inevitably suddenly have parents and cousins and siblings and aunts and uncles once they get permanent residency.
It's a wonderful world.
That sounds like you have a stupid and easily exploitable system, and doesn't convince me we need to deport people who were brought here illegally when they were one.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 17, 2009, 03:31:37 PM
Quote from: Slargos on June 17, 2009, 03:24:37 PM
This is currently one of the most popular ways to immigrate to Sweden.
They're called "single coming refugee children" and are as much as 40 years old but since they are "paperless refugees" it cannot be proven that they are not children and thus they must be allowed to stay.
Another term is "anchorbaby" since they inevitably suddenly have parents and cousins and siblings and aunts and uncles once they get permanent residency.
It's a wonderful world.
That sounds like you have a stupid and easily exploitable system, and doesn't convince me we need to deport people who were brought here illegally when they were one.
I'm not saying this guy should be deported.
I'm just saying that if you're going to start bending the rules that way, you will inevitably end up a socialist communist state like Sweden.
GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
What's up with all the fear of illegal immigrants in the US, anyway? The country was built by immigrants. The cheap immigrant labour is the backbone of the economy. You guys being to sound like Europeans.
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:42:36 PM
What's up with all the fear of illegal immigrants in the US, anyway? The country was built by immigrants. The cheap immigrant labour is the backbone of the economy. You guys being to sound like Europeans.
I think the most common reaction is the one you see from Valmy and Cal. It's not the "immigrant" part. It's the "illegal" part.
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:42:36 PM
What's up with all the fear of illegal immigrants in the US, anyway? The country was built by immigrants. The cheap immigrant labour is the backbone of the economy. You guys being to sound like Europeans.
They smell and bring their weird foods and habits with them.
Send em all back!
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 17, 2009, 03:43:54 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:42:36 PM
What's up with all the fear of illegal immigrants in the US, anyway? The country was built by immigrants. The cheap immigrant labour is the backbone of the economy. You guys being to sound like Europeans.
I think the most common reaction is the one you see from Valmy and Cal. It's not the "immigrant" part. It's the "illegal" part.
Are there non-retarded reactions too?
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:42:36 PM
What's up with all the fear of illegal immigrants in the US, anyway? The country was built by immigrants. The cheap immigrant labour is the backbone of the economy. You guys being to sound like Europeans.
Some of it is xenophobia. However, some of it has to do with the issues illegal immigration aggravates, like crime and social services impact.
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:42:36 PM
What's up with all the fear of illegal immigrants in the US, anyway? The country was built by immigrants. The cheap immigrant labour is the backbone of the economy. You guys being to sound like Europeans.
There's been fear of immigrants in this country going all the way back to Ben Franklin.
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:42:36 PM
What's up with all the fear of illegal immigrants in the US, anyway? The country was built by immigrants. The cheap immigrant labour is the backbone of the economy. You guys being to sound like Europeans.
this argument is massively retarded.
"omg the valooons were immigrants lolol!"
I think, before reforming the immigration law, the US should send all the people who or whose ancestors came to America as immigrants back to their homelands, and start from scratch, to level the playing field.
We already accept millions of legal immigrants a year. Would you have us accept the whole population of the world?
And illegal immigrant labor is hardly the "backbone of the US economy."
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 02:00:22 PM
To be honest, I am pretty surprised by Caliga's and Valmy's position. I thought they weren't retards. :(
The only way to get stupid laws changed is to enforce them dude.
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:56:13 PM
I think, before reforming the immigration law, the US should send all the people who or whose ancestors came to America as immigrants back to their homelands, and start from scratch, to level the playing field.
Nah I don't like tea that much. :bowler:
Edit: Actually that would be hilarious there would be something like 40,000,000 Americans moving to Ireland.
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2009, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:56:13 PM
I think, before reforming the immigration law, the US should send all the people who or whose ancestors came to America as immigrants back to their homelands, and start from scratch, to level the playing field.
Nah I don't like tea that much. :bowler:
Edit: Actually that would be hilarious there would be something like 40,000,000 Americans moving to Ireland.
Plus the Polacks from Chicago, Milwaukee, Hoosierland and northern Ohio swarming Poland. Marti would stain his white trousers when he saw that coming.
Quote from: Barrister on June 17, 2009, 03:03:58 PM
Because it gives a huge incentive to enter the country illegally. If you can get away with it long enough you get a green card!
Lotta debate and still reading through the thread, but I wanted to respond to this first and foremost.
The supposed "perpetrator" had no role in his presence in this country. How much more "naturalized" can you get than a resident whose entire formative years were spent in the United States?
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:45:41 PMAre there non-retarded reactions too?
So let me get this straight: because I would like the authorities to uphold our existing laws, that makes my reaction retarded?
Quote from: DGuller on June 17, 2009, 03:50:56 PMSome of it is xenophobia. However, some of it has to do with the issues illegal immigration aggravates, like crime and social services impact.
I don't know if you're reacting to me and Valmy specifically or trying to explain general American anti-immigration sentiment, but I am one of the least xenophobic people I know. I am a huge fan of immigration and recognize that mass immigration is one of the things that made America great.
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:13:01 PM
So let me get this straight: because I would like the authorities to uphold our existing laws, that makes my reaction retarded?
I think so. :)
Anyway, we have tons of laws that authorities choose not to enforece every day. I wouldn't be put out if they weren't so hell bent on enforcing the one in question.
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2009, 05:16:35 PM
Anyway, we have tons of laws that authorities choose not to enforece every day.
Yes, I know that and pointed it out earlier. But we should get rid of unjust laws, not ignore them.
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:39:41 PM
Yes, I know that and pointed it out earlier. But we should get rid of unjust laws, not ignore them.
That's a sane but unrealistic stance. :)
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2009, 05:16:35 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:13:01 PM
So let me get this straight: because I would like the authorities to uphold our existing laws, that makes my reaction retarded?
I think so. :)
Anyway, we have tons of laws that authorities choose not to enforece every day. I wouldn't be put out if they weren't so hell bent on enforcing the one in question.
You're just siding with Martinus because you're both gay.
Quote from: Neil on June 17, 2009, 06:00:59 PM
You're just siding with Martinus because you're both gay.
Actually, as I've said before, I never align myself with Martinus. It is inevitable, however, that every so often we will independently support the same cause/viewpoint.
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:39:41 PM
Yes, I know that and pointed it out earlier. But we should get rid of unjust laws, not ignore them.
Not a bad desire by any means, but considering the number of bizarre laws we would have to muddle through to streamline the statutes, the administrative time needed to actually do this would be unreasonable; there'd be no time to get anything else done.
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:15:01 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 17, 2009, 03:50:56 PMSome of it is xenophobia. However, some of it has to do with the issues illegal immigration aggravates, like crime and social services impact.
I don't know if you're reacting to me and Valmy specifically or trying to explain general American anti-immigration sentiment, but I am one of the least xenophobic people I know. I am a huge fan of immigration and recognize that mass immigration is one of the things that made America great.
Not reacting to any of you at all.
If they are useful to society (i.e. has a required skill and is in employment) then let them stay - allow them to legally seek citizenship. If they went there illegally and have pretty much wasted their opportunities, then get rid of them.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on June 17, 2009, 06:10:45 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:39:41 PM
Yes, I know that and pointed it out earlier. But we should get rid of unjust laws, not ignore them.
Not a bad desire by any means, but considering the number of bizarre laws we would have to muddle through to streamline the statutes, the administrative time needed to actually do this would be unreasonable; there'd be no time to get anything else done.
Seems like the solution to that would be fairly obvious. A situation like that is just asking for abuse anyway.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on June 17, 2009, 06:10:45 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:39:41 PM
Yes, I know that and pointed it out earlier. But we should get rid of unjust laws, not ignore them.
Not a bad desire by any means, but considering the number of bizarre laws we would have to muddle through to streamline the statutes, the administrative time needed to actually do this would be unreasonable; there'd be no time to get anything else done.
But we're not talking about some weird law like one making it illegal to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole, or making it a crime to walk backwards outside a theatre while a performance is underway, or even an archaic law, like those against using profanity in public. We're talking about immigration reform, and while I agree that we should make it much easier to enter the country legally, I don't think we should go all the way back to the 19th century and let literally anybody in. Not allowing hardened criminals and the like to emigrate seems reasonable to me.
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2009, 01:33:50 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:32:58 PM
I'm a big fan of orderly societies, which in part require law enforcement to uphold existing law even if they don't like them. Otherwise you have selective enforcement and chaos ensues.
Wow we really are of one mind on this issue.
From now on I deputize Caliga to speak for me on all illegal immigration issues.
QFT.
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 02:08:03 PM
Honestly I wouldn't have used Demjanjuk if I knew of a better real-life example.
Isn't this rather the point, though? If you cannot find an example of an innocent person (I assume that the 19-year-old is not being deported in lieu of prison) getting "rightfully" deported, then maybe the case isn't open-and-shut?
There are all kinds of provisos in which the US government can allow an "illegal immigrant" to stay in the US after detection (someone with a real fear of unjust prosecution in their own country, for instance, who flees before they can get a refugee visa). This should be one of them.
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:56:13 PM
I think, before reforming the immigration law, the US should send all the people who or whose ancestors came to America as immigrants back to their homelands, and start from scratch, to level the playing field.
[Martinus]Are there non-retarded reactions too?[/Martinus]
Quote from: Scipio on June 18, 2009, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2009, 01:33:50 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 01:32:58 PM
I'm a big fan of orderly societies, which in part require law enforcement to uphold existing law even if they don't like them. Otherwise you have selective enforcement and chaos ensues.
Wow we really are of one mind on this issue.
From now on I deputize Caliga to speak for me on all illegal immigration issues.
QFT.
An American lawyer agrees with me. America > Poland, ERGO American lawyer > Polish lawyer. ^_^
Also I earlier failed to acknowledge Valmy's props. Sorry dude. :)
Quote from: grumbler on June 18, 2009, 08:21:36 PM
[Martinus]Are there non-retarded reactions too?[/Martinus]
My pet theory behind this thread is that Marti was mad about something either before he created it or after he did, and then jumped on Valmy and me because we were the first to reply. We didn't actually say what he was expecting us to say, but the response was sufficiently close to the strawman American stereotypical reply he was looking for that he felt he could unleash the personal attack (i.e. "you're retards") that was really a projection of whatever happened to be gnawing at him.
Herein ends the session. Can I have my $250 hourly rate now? Oh, and get the fuck off my couch. :)