Should illegal immigrants who came to your country as kids be deported?

Started by Martinus, June 17, 2009, 01:25:22 PM

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DontSayBanana

#61
June 17, 2009, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 17, 2009, 03:03:58 PM
Because it gives a huge incentive to enter the country illegally.  If you can get away with it long enough you get a green card!

Lotta debate and still reading through the thread, but I wanted to respond to this first and foremost.

The supposed "perpetrator" had no role in his presence in this country. How much more "naturalized" can you get than a resident whose entire formative years were spent in the United States?
Experience bij!

Caliga

#62
June 17, 2009, 05:13:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 17, 2009, 03:45:41 PMAre there non-retarded reactions too?
So let me get this straight: because I would like the authorities to uphold our existing laws, that makes my reaction retarded?
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Caliga

#63
June 17, 2009, 05:15:01 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 17, 2009, 03:50:56 PMSome of it is xenophobia.  However, some of it has to do with the issues illegal immigration aggravates, like crime and social services impact.
I don't know if you're reacting to me and Valmy specifically or trying to explain general American anti-immigration sentiment, but I am one of the least xenophobic people I know.  I am a huge fan of immigration and recognize that mass immigration is one of the things that made America great.
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garbon

#64
June 17, 2009, 05:16:35 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:13:01 PM
So let me get this straight: because I would like the authorities to uphold our existing laws, that makes my reaction retarded?

I think so. :)

Anyway, we have tons of laws that authorities choose not to enforece every day. I wouldn't be put out if they weren't so hell bent on enforcing the one in question.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Caliga

#65
June 17, 2009, 05:39:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2009, 05:16:35 PM
Anyway, we have tons of laws that authorities choose not to enforece every day.
Yes, I know that and pointed it out earlier.  But we should get rid of unjust laws, not ignore them.
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garbon

#66
June 17, 2009, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:39:41 PM
Yes, I know that and pointed it out earlier.  But we should get rid of unjust laws, not ignore them.

That's a sane but unrealistic stance. :)
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Neil

#67
June 17, 2009, 06:00:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2009, 05:16:35 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:13:01 PM
So let me get this straight: because I would like the authorities to uphold our existing laws, that makes my reaction retarded?

I think so. :)

Anyway, we have tons of laws that authorities choose not to enforece every day. I wouldn't be put out if they weren't so hell bent on enforcing the one in question.
You're just siding with Martinus because you're both gay.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

garbon

#68
June 17, 2009, 06:04:28 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 17, 2009, 06:00:59 PM
You're just siding with Martinus because you're both gay.

Actually, as I've said before, I never align myself with Martinus. It is inevitable, however, that every so often we will independently support the same cause/viewpoint.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

DontSayBanana

#69
June 17, 2009, 06:10:45 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:39:41 PM
Yes, I know that and pointed it out earlier.  But we should get rid of unjust laws, not ignore them.

Not a bad desire by any means, but considering the number of bizarre laws we would have to muddle through to streamline the statutes, the administrative time needed to actually do this would be unreasonable; there'd be no time to get anything else done.
Experience bij!

DGuller

#70
June 17, 2009, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:15:01 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 17, 2009, 03:50:56 PMSome of it is xenophobia.  However, some of it has to do with the issues illegal immigration aggravates, like crime and social services impact.
I don't know if you're reacting to me and Valmy specifically or trying to explain general American anti-immigration sentiment, but I am one of the least xenophobic people I know.  I am a huge fan of immigration and recognize that mass immigration is one of the things that made America great.
Not reacting to any of you at all.

Caliga

#71
June 17, 2009, 06:39:35 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 17, 2009, 06:36:44 PMNot reacting to any of you at all.
Ok, gotcha.
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Palisadoes

#72
June 17, 2009, 07:40:03 PM
If they are useful to society (i.e. has a required skill and is in employment) then let them stay - allow them to legally seek citizenship. If they went there illegally and have pretty much wasted their opportunities, then get rid of them.

MadImmortalMan

#73
June 17, 2009, 11:52:54 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on June 17, 2009, 06:10:45 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:39:41 PM
Yes, I know that and pointed it out earlier.  But we should get rid of unjust laws, not ignore them.

Not a bad desire by any means, but considering the number of bizarre laws we would have to muddle through to streamline the statutes, the administrative time needed to actually do this would be unreasonable; there'd be no time to get anything else done.


Seems like the solution to that would be fairly obvious. A situation like that is just asking for abuse anyway.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

dps

#74
June 18, 2009, 06:06:14 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on June 17, 2009, 06:10:45 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 17, 2009, 05:39:41 PM
Yes, I know that and pointed it out earlier.  But we should get rid of unjust laws, not ignore them.

Not a bad desire by any means, but considering the number of bizarre laws we would have to muddle through to streamline the statutes, the administrative time needed to actually do this would be unreasonable; there'd be no time to get anything else done.

But we're not talking about some weird law like one making it illegal to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole, or making it a crime to walk backwards outside a theatre while a performance is underway, or even an archaic law, like those against using profanity in public.  We're talking about immigration reform, and while I agree that we should make it much easier to enter the country legally, I don't think we should go all the way back to the 19th century and let literally anybody in.  Not allowing hardened criminals and the like to emigrate seems reasonable to me.
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