Poll
Question:
Do you use the term?
Option 1: Sure do
votes: 7
Option 2: Not really but what is old is always new again
votes: 6
Option 3: Nope
votes: 27
Option 4: THAT'S RACISS
votes: 3
Option 5: I'm from outside of North America and that's normal speech, blackie
votes: 5
I was just at a holiday party (as a +1 to a friend's party) and had, as it happens, several occurrences of being asked my background / where I'm from. More than a few times when I explained, I got back "Oh so you're mulatto" to which I smiled my assent. One of the people was a black woman who then said, "Oh are we allowed to say that now?"
I realized that while I don't necessarily take issue with the term, it does feel dated / I don't use it personally as it makes me feel like a black person using slave terms.
What say you, Languish?
No, I don't. :lol:
"Oh, you're high yellow." So there's worse, I guess.
I wouldn't say mulatto. It is dated, and sounds like a fucking desert.
That word always reminds me of ice cream for some reason.
Two scoops of Mulatto in a waffle come please.
Good grief, that's an old term.
Using it almost make someone sound like their talking about horse breeds rather than people, to my ear it has overtones of a slave owners talking about their chattels.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 10, 2014, 10:04:34 PM
sounds like a fucking desert.
Well I do taste pretty sweet.
I'm as likely to use mulatto as I am to use quadroon or octoroon.
Brain would like that the party also had a discussion about the difference between zoophilia and bestiality, as well as the normality of fucking donkeys in parts of Colombia. :wacko:
When my sister in law got knocked up by a black dude she was all excited she was gonna have a 'mulatito'.
Is there a difference?
Quote from: Ideologue on December 10, 2014, 10:15:20 PM
Is there a difference?
From wiki (/that was my question):
QuoteSome zoophiles and researchers draw a distinction between "zoophilia" and "bestiality", using the former to describe the desire to form sexual relationships with animals, and the latter to describe the sex acts alone.
Used to, I had no idea it was anything but a neutral term. So now I just use 'mixed-race' which is vague but it is the best we have I guess.
I think we should use all the old Spanish Caste terms. White people can now be 'Creoles'. Or maybe not.
Don't use the term... it seems pretty dated, yeah.
HEY BOY
You sounded taller on the radio.
The black lady and I complimented one another on being so well spoken. :)
Not only is dated, but it's kinda useless. Pretty much every black person in the US has a lot of European blood, like around 50%. I suspect a lot of whites in the US some African ancestor as well. And I mean more recent African ancestor then 40,000 years ago. You look at an African American and you look at a West African and you can tell these are two separate peoples.
Well I don't think how we describe race has much to do with useful delimiters. :D
I think I've only used it in an academic context (19th century American history). I've only rarely heard it spoken.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 10, 2014, 11:05:41 PM
Not only is dated, but it's kinda useless. Pretty much every black person in the US has a lot of European blood, like around 50%. I suspect a lot of whites in the US some African ancestor as well. And I mean more recent African ancestor then 40,000 years ago. You look at an African American and you look at a West African and you can tell these are two separate peoples.
Well obviously the extent of its usefulness would be describing somebody who identifies as being part of both culture groups here. Obviously DNA tests are not involved :P
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2014, 10:53:42 PM
The black lady and I complimented one another on being so well spoken. :)
Was she well spoken?
Quote from: Razgovory on December 10, 2014, 11:05:41 PM
Not only is dated, but it's kinda useless. Pretty much every black person in the US has a lot of European blood, like around 50%. I suspect a lot of whites in the US some African ancestor as well. And I mean more recent African ancestor then 40,000 years ago. You look at an African American and you look at a West African and you can tell these are two separate peoples.
Waaay back in undergrad I read in a Sociology text that 80% of black Americans had *some* white blood and 20% of white Americans had *some* black blood.
I'd be surprised if that many pure blacks still existed.
Yeah it is way more than 50%, probably over 90%. But we have lots of African immigrants if you are looking for purity.
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2014, 10:53:42 PM
The black lady and I complimented one another on being so well spoken. :)
Was she well spoken?
The proper question is, "Did she have a nice big butt?"
Oh, and on topic, no, not a common word, but still used a bit in spanish.
It is still spoken parlance with many people I know.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 10, 2014, 11:12:55 PM
I think I've only used it in an academic context (19th century American history). I've only rarely heard it spoken.
I think I've only heard it one time outside of an academic context.
Quote from: Lettow77 on December 11, 2014, 12:30:36 AM
It is still spoken parlance with many people I know.
Yeah, I think it's more of a southern thing these days. Imagine that.
I guess mulatto is the equivalent of "mulâtre" in french. I still use it but it is not considered as a "touchy" or "provocative" word over here - Québecistan. Actually, we have a word for Indians "mulatto" in Canada (Métis) and the word is not provocative (but the definition is a hell hole).
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2014, 10:13:24 PM
Brain would like that the party also had a discussion about the difference between zoophilia and bestiality, as well as the normality of fucking donkeys in parts of Colombia. :wacko:
Did the discussion turn to zoophilia after they found out you are a mulatto or a sodomite?
Sounds like a lovely bunch. :D
Quote from: Rex Francorum on December 11, 2014, 01:24:28 AM
I guess mulatto is the equivalent of "mulâtre" in french. I still use it but it is not considered as a "touchy" or "provocative" word over here - Québecistan. Actually, we have a word for Indians "mulatto" in Canada (Métis) and the word is not provocative (but the definition is a hell hole).
Pretty much same here (the Polish word is "mulat"). It wouldn't be considered offensive or touchy but it would be a bit weird, I think, especially if asked like you describe ("are you a mulatto?").
Incidentally, I thought this would be a thread / poll whether you had sex with any mulattos. :(
Quote from: mongers on December 10, 2014, 10:05:27 PM
Good grief, that's an old term.
Using it almost make someone sound like their talking about horse breeds rather than people, to my ear it has overtones of a slave owners talking about their chattels.
Yeah. Never heard it used, wouldn't use it.
QuoteI'm as likely to use mulatto as I am to use quadroon or octoroon.
So with your nicknames, there's a chance? :P
No. It sounds silly. Or spanish
No need to repeat yourself.
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2014, 10:13:24 PM
Brain would like that the party also had a discussion about the difference between zoophilia and bestiality, as well as the normality of fucking donkeys in parts of Colombia. :wacko:
:)
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 11, 2014, 02:07:24 AM
So with your nicknames, there's a chance? :P
I don't get it. :unsure:
The last time I used the word mulatto was 25 years ago in geography class when we were talking about the colonization of the Americas, the different racial mixes that were created at the time and how it led to discrimination.
Quote from: Syt on December 11, 2014, 03:02:36 AM
The last time I used the word mulatto was 25 years ago in geography class when we were talking about the colonization of the Americas, the different racial mixes that were created at the time and how it led to discrimination.
Yes, I would not use the word unless discussing Latin America (especially in colonial times), then, like mestizo, it could easily be useful. That conversation has not happened yet.
I don't ever use it in Spanish, rather use "mestizo" if somehow the topic creeps up, since at least it's not a word derived from cattle. Several Cuban friends use it quite proudly to refer to themselves, but I guess it's one of those "reclaim the word" thingies that I really don't get.
And I think the only time I ever use it in English is when singing along "Smells Like Teen Spirit".
Is it anything like a muffuletta? :huh:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2014, 12:50:22 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on December 11, 2014, 12:30:36 AM
It is still spoken parlance with many people I know.
Yeah, I think it's more of a southern thing these days. Imagine that.
Down here I never hear 'mulatto', but I do hear 'mixed' on occasion.
"Down here", with allusion to being a Southern place, is unforgivable presumption when referring to Kentucky. That state which, after much dithering, so tepidly embraced the war for independence and furnished so many sons for the conquest of the proper South, is in no way fit for the considerable prestige that comes with being a Southern state.
:rolleyes: Remember, I used to live in New England.
I don't use it no. I try to not desginate people by their skin colors.
Quote from: Martinus on December 11, 2014, 01:39:37 AM
Incidentally, I thought this would be a thread / poll whether you had sex with any mulattos. :(
Why would I want to know that? :x
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2014, 08:14:15 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 11, 2014, 01:39:37 AM
Incidentally, I thought this would be a thread / poll whether you had sex with any mulattos. :(
Why would I want to know that? :x
Raciss.
Wrong piece. I don't want to think about you and sex. ^_^
Used in earnest, only by some old folks once or twice -- I think an ex-girlfriend's great-aunt in North Carolina said it as a (neutral from her perspective) description. Oh, and alsoone client up here, trying to describe who his defense attorney had been in another county -- "I can't remember her name; it was a mulatto gal." :lol:
In ironic or self-identifying 'reclamation' usage, I've heard it a few times, along with spinoffs ("Jewlatto" from someone with a black father and a Jewish mother).
Definitely not an expression I'd use. Mixed race is par for the course in London, but you'd never ask someone if they were in conversation. Gone are the days of, "Where are you from? No, not London, where are you REALLY from?"
Besides, black/white mixed race is just one of an infinite variety. I have friends who are all sorts of mixes of black/white/east Asian/south Asian etc.
As a former colonial nation in Africa, the word 'Mulato' (or its female form, 'Mulata'), used to describe a person with mixed white/black parents/grandparents, is commonly used in Portugal.
It doesn't have any connotation beyond noting a person is part black and part white, and can - and is - used at will. Nobody takes it badly.
(that said, we have a large percentage of the population of pure black ancestry, literally having arrived from the darkest parts of Africa within the last decade, so we're not like the US which can claim most blacks have white blood in them)
In Brazil, where there was a ton of mixing, they take great pride on the sexual shamelessness of mulatto women. It is common to say "came to enjoy our mulatettes ('mulatinhas')?"
(and, during the Carnival, when it is normal and acceptable for these women to dance the samba in public with almost no clothes on, or just body paint, it is known as 'admiring the mulatinhas').
Had no idea this could be an issue in America :huh:
(p.s. - while in Portugal the word 'crioulo' ('creole') used to indicate a full white person born in the Americas [there was another legal distinction for those whites born in Africa], the modern african dialects that trace their roots to the Portugese language are today also known as 'creole', even if spoken by 100% black folk).
Quote from: Brazen
Besides, black/white mixed race is just one of an infinite variety. I have friends who are all sorts of mixes of black/white/east Asian/south Asian etc.
Not infinite, and there are terms for those types of mixings, too...
My favourite mangled term I've heard from several US news outlets is "British African-Americans" :lol:
Quote from: Martim Silva on December 11, 2014, 08:46:18 AM
(that said, we have a large percentage of the population of pure black ancestry, literally having arrived from the darkest parts of Africa within the last decade, so we're not like the US which can claim most blacks have white blood in them)
I was having lunch with the Andorran ambassador the other day, and we were laughing at the idea some Portuguese might deluding themselves into believing in such absurdities as "pure black ancestry," given that probably 95% of the ancestors of any human are also ancestors for all other humans. It turns out that some Portuguese are, indeed, so deluded!
"White blood" and "pure black ancestry" are really meaningless concepts, retained only because some people still believe in archaic concepts like "race."
Quote from: Brazen on December 11, 2014, 09:02:26 AM
My favourite mangled term I've heard from several US news outlets is "British African-Americans" :lol:
I've heard that as well. Some news people aren't thinking very clearly.
Like Martim Silva, but mulato is slightly old-fashioned, more likely used by my parents' generation. Term is not offensive.
Mulâtre is very old-fashioned in French though, but not offensive, again.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 11, 2014, 09:12:02 AM
Like Martim Silva, but mulato is slightly old-fashioned, more likely used by my parents' generation. Term is not offensive.
Let me guess, your parent's generation was from Portugal? :ph34r:
Quote from: Grumbler
"White blood" and "pure black ancestry" are really meaningless concepts, retained only because some people still believe in archaic concepts like "race."
You're weird, Grumbler :huh:
"Pure black" means those people had no ancestors from any race other than black ones in millennia, which is the case here - often I have to (try to) give indications of routes to immigrants who just arrived at the airport from the Congo/Deep Angola, who can't speak european languages and are quite lost over here (we have to use gestures to make ourselves barely understood).
In his Mongrel Nation series about the immigrant origins of everyone in the UK, Eddie Izzard found that in the 17th or 18th Century something like 15% of all Londoners were black. Having reached the city as sailors and made good money en route, their offspring reached the highest echelons of society, including doctors and lawyers. By the Victorian era, black Londoners were all but non-existent. The expert Eddie talked too said that as there are no records of them having left the country, chances were they had bred into the general populace, meaning we are all now a little bit black.
Quote from: Martim Silva on December 11, 2014, 09:22:43 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 11, 2014, 09:12:02 AM
Like Martim Silva, but mulato is slightly old-fashioned, more likely used by my parents' generation. Term is not offensive.
Let me guess, your parent's generation was from Portugal? :ph34r:
Yes, and the teenagers in Portugal don't use the word as often as them. I use it more often than teenagers as well.
Mestiço is more common, since it's broader.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2014, 10:12:42 PM
I'm as likely to use mulatto as I am to use quadroon or octoroon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHRfuLVfls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHRfuLVfls)
Also, must be posted:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fd%2Fdd%2FCastaSystemVirreinato.JPG&hash=6abc4e41dd2d22c4815315c270384c08b7be8b62)
Quote from: Brazen on December 11, 2014, 09:02:26 AM
My favourite mangled term I've heard from several US news outlets is "British African-Americans" :lol:
Your black people are unsettling to the common American eye: they have the accent, don't embrace gangsta culture and are therefore less threatening to white people. It's like a nation full of Taye Diggs.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2014, 09:55:36 AM
Quote from: Brazen on December 11, 2014, 09:02:26 AM
My favourite mangled term I've heard from several US news outlets is "British African-Americans" :lol:
Your black people are unsettling to the common American eye: they have the accent, don't embrace gangsta culture and are therefore less threatening to white people. It's like a nation full of Taye Diggs.
What about yardies?
Quote from: The Larch on December 11, 2014, 10:11:27 AM
What about yardies?
They're not in the movies we see. But I don't see how they're any different than Rastas, Jakes or any others of the bevy of delightfully exotic Caribbean types.
Quote from: Brazen on December 11, 2014, 08:40:53 AM
Besides, black/white mixed race is just one of an infinite variety. I have friends who are all sorts of mixes of black/white/east Asian/south Asian etc.
Well we have centuries of slavery that led to this particular combo being of cultural importance.
Quote from: Brazen on December 11, 2014, 09:02:26 AM
My favourite mangled term I've heard from several US news outlets is "British African-Americans" :lol:
For that large African-American expat community in Britain I hope.
Quote from: The Larch on December 11, 2014, 10:11:27 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2014, 09:55:36 AM
Quote from: Brazen on December 11, 2014, 09:02:26 AM
My favourite mangled term I've heard from several US news outlets is "British African-Americans" :lol:
Your black people are unsettling to the common American eye: they have the accent, don't embrace gangsta culture and are therefore less threatening to white people. It's like a nation full of Taye Diggs.
What about yardies?
Only in reference to the Octagon. Not the Octaroon. ;)
no, never used the term. I also rarely make a distinction on one's origin based on his/her skin colour.
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2014, 10:51:05 AM
no, never used the term. I also rarely make a distinction on one's origin based on his/her skin colour.
I think it isn't so much about people caring about my race but trying to use it to fit me in culturally - as they first step to me thinking that I'm Middle Eastern or Indian.
Chief Bitchy Purple Hair.
Quote from: The Brain on December 11, 2014, 10:59:36 AM
Chief Bitchy Purple Hair.
Most people find it shocking that I used to dye my hair. Damn you corporate world! *shakes fist* :weep:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 10, 2014, 10:04:34 PM
"Oh, you're high yellow." So there's worse, I guess.
I wouldn't say mulatto. It is dated, and sounds like a fucking desert.
I thought it was some flavor of ice cream that gays were fond of.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 11, 2014, 11:06:11 AM
I thought it was some flavor of ice cream that gays were fond of.
Like any other dairy product: beaten and whipped, Cracka? :mad: :mad: :mad:
I shouldn't be amazed, but I am still shocked how 11B extols ignorance as a virtue.
It's just not his world, garbon. Not even his solar system.
Making a quick search, it seems that all this issue with 'Mulatto' is tightly linked with US-influenced 'anti-racist' ideologies that were recently created.
The word, after all, just meant one's heritage and nobody thought more or less of him/her because of that, with everyone living and letting live. It is just when the 'Anti-Racist' crowd joins the scene that the 'racist' accusations start to fly and the racial confrontations happen.
From the Brazilian viewpoint, we have this curious story, from 2007:
http://www.midiaindependente.org/pt/red/2007/05/382383.shtml (http://www.midiaindependente.org/pt/red/2007/05/382383.shtml)
Where the coordinator of the 'Brazilian Mulatto Resistance', Aparecida Rodrigues Silva, sued for racial discrimination the actress and Caritas representative Francis Jr, [who is black], because the black actress told her tht "mulattos do not exist, and that the word derives from 'mule'". Rodrigues also said Francis offended her, by saying that "mulattos are seen as sexual objects".
Francis Jr. replied that she "only asked if she knew the meaning of the word 'mulatto'", because she doesn't seem fit for a social movement to use the word, which she links to the sexual exploitation of the black slaves in Brazil.
"Mulatto comes from mule, which his how the masters treated the black women with whom they maintained sexual relations".
To this, the brazilian commenters note:
"The word mulatto does come from mule, but was not invented by slaveowners, it is far older and exists in the Portuguese and Spanish languages since the XVth century. It refers to the hybrid character of a gestantion, in this case between blacks and whites, like a mule is an hybrid between a horse and a donkey. The original meaning of the word was not to compare someone to a cargo beast, but to reinforce its hybridism.
(...)
What is sad is to note that, in this XXIst century, black people are becoming more racist and intolerant than whites. Not all of them, but those influenced by the "afro" ideology that is disseminated by the left-wing college left that comes from the USA, and which proclaims an identity feeling based upon race (they define themselves as 'blacks', such as the afrcans and dark-skinned brazlians, even that there is no cultural affinity between these ethnic groups). I understand that, for people who think like that, there is nothing more ignominious than the image of a Mulatto, since it his the material proof of the absence of racism, and thus the denial of all that in which they believe and proclaim".
Another commenter says:
"I have to agree with the previous poster when he refers, and well, to the use of the "black" or "african-descentent", or "african-american" terms, which were imported by the black movements in Brazil.
It was the black democrat US senator Jesse Jackson that, during a visit to Palácio do Planalto [Brazilian equivalent to the White House - ms], during the government of Presidente FHC [Fernando Henrique Cardoso], who asked the president that he created a "black middle class" similar to the one that exists in the US. And why did he proposed tht? Tht is the question: since in the country of the Yanks the interbreeding between slaves and whites did not occur in a way as generalized as over here, the population descentent from former slaves remained isolated in the Southern States or in ghettos in the major cities.
Our case is rather different, where most of the population, over 60%, is half-breed and has a darker sink and crisp hair, being the non-mixed blacks a miniority relative to the others. Yes, it is enough for someone to have a little crisped hair and a darker skin tone to be considered "black" by those movements".
Nothing wrong with the word, and it is more descriptive than "mixed race". That said, in areas with large Asian/Amerindian/Mideastern/etc populations, it'd be a bit cumbersome to come up with words for every permutation. I suspect this is the main reason the word is falling out of usage- there just aren't many areas left with major European and African populations but without significant representation from other races.
Ugh, how did I manage to attract the attention of MSil and his crackpot posts.
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2014, 12:15:22 PM
Ugh, how did I manage to attract the attention of MSil and his crackpot posts.
He was having dinner with the Brazilian ambassador.
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2014, 12:15:22 PM
Ugh, how did I manage to attract the attention of MSil and his crackpot posts.
Basically becasue your reality is so far removed from mine that your thread became fascinating. It's like reading things from an alien.
I won't lie, reading from the US languish posters is quite enlightening about the american mind (and also why I did not post on the CIA torture thread; Zanza summed up my feelings very well there)
Quote from: Martim Silva on December 11, 2014, 09:22:43 AM
You're weird, Grumbler :huh:
Not being hopelessly caught up in bullshit rhetoric may very well seem weird to you, but, in the first world, it isn't considered weird.
Quote"Pure black" means those people had no ancestors from any race other than black ones in millennia, which is the case here - often I have to (try to) give indications of routes to immigrants who just arrived at the airport from the Congo/Deep Angola, who can't speak european languages and are quite lost over here (we have to use gestures to make ourselves barely understood).
This is bullshit rhetoric. First, there is only one race, the human race. All the rainbow "races" are just social constructs; there is no biological basis for "races' within homo sapiens. Second, you cannot possibly trace the ancestry of anyone reliably back for "millennia," so one could not possibly distinguish your bullshit "pure black" from anyone else based on "millennia" of "ancestors." Your communications problems have nothing to do with how "pure" the "blackness" is in you or the person you are trying to communicate with; you'd have the same problem with anyone who was from an isolated non-European culture.
LOL, "pure black". I'm a fan of matte black myself.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2014, 01:20:05 PM
LOL, "pure black". I'm a fan of matte black myself.
Jet black! :cool:
Quote from: grumbler on December 11, 2014, 01:18:25 PM
Quote from: Martim Silva on December 11, 2014, 09:22:43 AM
You're weird, Grumbler :huh:
Not being hopelessly caught up in bullshit rhetoric may very well seem weird to you, but, in the first world, it isn't considered weird.
That sentence could earn a prize in the "most pathetic attempt at trolling" category.
Quote from: grumbler
This is bullshit rhetoric. First, there is only one race, the human race. All the rainbow "races" are just social constructs; there is no biological basis for "races' within homo sapiens. Second, you cannot possibly trace the ancestry of anyone reliably back for "millennia," so one could not possibly distinguish your bullshit "pure black" from anyone else based on "millennia" of "ancestors." Your communications problems have nothing to do with how "pure" the "blackness" is in you or the person you are trying to communicate with; you'd have the same problem with anyone who was from an isolated non-European culture.
Wow, you're really bent on using those silly sociological arguments to argue? :lol:
In my days (and surely yours), Humans were a Species, which was then split into a subspecies (to which Homo Sapiens Sapiens -us - belonged to) and then races (mongoloid, caucasoid and negroid) and later into subraces.
Lately, it became fashion to eliminate the "subspecies" and call it a "race". Which is why we now see space games call alien species "races", which is downright absurd.
Debating the workings of a political system that changes the definition of "race" at will is pretty much pointless, as is arguing with people that actually believe that garbage.
After all, if it was all "social constructs", it would not be possible to use blood samples to determine the genetic makeup of populations, nor to tell with full accuracy a person's racial heritage. But since it is possible to do so, there are clear genetic differences between Human populations.
That said, if you really can't tell the geographical origins of a literally charcoal-black person with full negroid features that is speaking an african language from a Chinese or from an Hungarian, and really beleve there are zero genetic differences between them, I - and everyone else outside the PC sphere - can only shake my head and let you wonder around your LaLa land.
For the record, everytime I am around a multiracial environment, everyone just accepts their racial differences and we roll with it - we accept that the Chinese dude doesn't want to drink too much, as they cannot resist alcohol as well as other races, for example, and don't force him to drink - and get along nicely.
It's only when the "zomg we are all alike" lunatics arrive and insist we follow whatever they percieve as being "racially correct" attitudes that things turn sour.
Quote from: Martim Silva on December 11, 2014, 01:31:27 PM
let you wonder around your LaLa land.
What does Los Angeles have to do with this? :unsure:
This does make me wonder quite how acceptable 'mulatto' really is in the Lusosphere for its objects :mellow:
Quote from: Martim Silva on December 11, 2014, 01:31:27 PM
I - and everyone else outside the PC sphere - can only shake my head and let you wonder around your LaLa land.
This is probably the best policy. I have my religion, others have theirs.
LOL, "pure white".
I really gotta disagree with Martim's notion that the races get along just fine in Brazil, and it's only those problematic left-wing american ideas that have brought the notion of racism into a country where it never existed.
It's a very diverse country, almost the same size as the US, and it was a country also very much affected by a history of slavery (and went on even longer than in the US). Yes, there has been more "mixing" of the races than in the US, but it's no accident that the elites in Brazil are very light-skinned, while those who live in the favelas have very dark skin...
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2014, 02:12:07 PM
but it's no accident that the elites in Brazil are very light-skinned, while those who live in the favelas have very dark skin...
And that's awfully unique to Brazil.
Quote from: Brazen on December 11, 2014, 09:23:53 AM
In his Mongrel Nation series about the immigrant origins of everyone in the UK, Eddie Izzard found that in the 17th or 18th Century something like 15% of all Londoners were black. Having reached the city as sailors and made good money en route, their offspring reached the highest echelons of society, including doctors and lawyers. By the Victorian era, black Londoners were all but non-existent. The expert Eddie talked too said that as there are no records of them having left the country, chances were they had bred into the general populace, meaning we are all now a little bit black.
Now that is interesting. I had heard about Black English and French during the 17th and 18th century. I wondered what happened to them.
Quote from: Martim Silva on December 11, 2014, 12:48:29 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2014, 12:15:22 PM
Ugh, how did I manage to attract the attention of MSil and his crackpot posts.
Basically becasue your reality is so far removed from mine that your thread became fascinating. It's like reading things from an alien.
I won't lie, reading from the US languish posters is quite enlightening about the american mind (and also why I did not post on the CIA torture thread; Zanza summed up my feelings very well there)
Yet I post something a thread about Angola and you miss it entirely. The sad truth of that thread is Grumbler probably has just the book I'm looking for but he won't tell me because he's cruel. :(
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2014, 02:12:07 PM
I really gotta disagree with Martim's notion that the races get along just fine in Brazil, and it's only those problematic left-wing american ideas that have brought the notion of racism into a country where it never existed.
It's a very diverse country, almost the same size as the US, and it was a country also very much affected by a history of slavery (and went on even longer than in the US). Yes, there has been more "mixing" of the races than in the US, but it's no accident that the elites in Brazil are very light-skinned, while those who live in the favelas have very dark skin...
An interesting thing I've come across in literature is how much race is tied to socio-economic status in Brazil, to the point that a poor favela resident will much more often be described as black (by himself and others) compared to a well off middle class individual, even if the middle class individual actually has darker skin and more African features than the favela resident.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 11, 2014, 02:17:10 PM
The sad truth of that thread is Grumbler probably has just the book I'm looking for but he won't tell me because he's cruel. :(
It's tough love. You'll never learn your library skills if you don't go and find shit for yourself.
Quote from: Jacob on December 11, 2014, 02:21:29 PM
An interesting thing I've come across in literature is how much race is tied to socio-economic status in Brazil, to the point that a poor favela resident will much more often be described as black (by himself and others) compared to a well off middle class individual, even if the middle class individual actually has darker skin and more African features than the favela resident.
Argies seem to have a similar concept.
I use it in french on occasion, but it does feel dated in english.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2014, 02:32:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 11, 2014, 02:17:10 PM
The sad truth of that thread is Grumbler probably has just the book I'm looking for but he won't tell me because he's cruel. :(
It's tough love. You'll never learn your library skills if you don't go and find shit for yourself.
Man I was so confused in College. In Elementary school I learned the Dewey Decimal system. When I got to college, they had some alien system I'd never heard of.
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 11, 2014, 01:45:53 PM
This does make me wonder quite how acceptable 'mulatto' really is in the Lusosphere for its objects :mellow:
'Mulatto is unacceptable since its 'mulato' :P
At worst, slightly more used among the older generations but in no way unacceptable.
Quote from: Martim Silva on December 11, 2014, 01:31:27 PM
That This sentence could earn a prize in the "most pathetic attempt at trolling" category.
Fixed that for you.
QuoteWow, you're really bent on using those silly sociological arguments to argue? :lol:
In my days (and surely yours), Humans were a Species, which was then split into a subspecies (to which Homo Sapiens Sapiens -us - belonged to) and then races (mongoloid, caucasoid and negroid) and later into subraces.
In the first world, we gave this up long before my time, and perhaps even before yours. Humans have no scientific division below subspecies. racists just made up the whole "race" and "subrace" belief of yours.
QuoteDebating the workings of a political system that changes the definition of "race" at will is pretty much pointless, as is arguing with people that actually believe that garbage.
Indeed. Debating the concept of 'race" with anyone who believes that garbage is pretty pointless.
QuoteAfter all, if it was all "social constructs", it would not be possible to use blood samples to determine the genetic makeup of populations, nor to tell with full accuracy a person's racial heritage. But since it is possible to do so, there are clear genetic differences between Human populations.
Nice strawman, but it won't fly. There is no way to tell "race" by blood samples. In fact, one cannot even define a "race," let along its genetic makeup.
QuoteThat said, if you really can't tell the geographical origins of a literally charcoal-black person with full negroid features that is speaking an african language from a Chinese or from an Hungarian, and really beleve there are zero genetic differences between them, I - and everyone else outside the PC sphere - can only shake my head and let you wonder around your LaLa land.
Again, lots of starwman and red herrings here. Too Raz to be worth responding to.
QuoteFor the record, everytime I am around a multiracial environment, everyone just accepts their racial differences and we roll with it - we accept that the Chinese dude doesn't want to drink too much, as they cannot resist alcohol as well as other races, for example, and don't force him to drink - and get along nicely.
It's only when the "zomg we are all alike" lunatics arrive and insist we follow whatever they percieve as being "racially correct" attitudes that things turn sour.
Another strawman. "Race" is a social construct isn't "zomg we are all alike." Again, though, too Raz a comment to be worthy of a reply.
Dated by centuries (in English).
If someone calls a Black person a "spade" (see another thread on this one), check to see if they are wearing bellbottoms - they may have escaped from the 1970s.
If someone calls a Black person a "mulatto", check to see if they are wearing breeches - they may have escaped from the 1770s.
Love how grumbler dissects a post into half a dozen segments and replies to each yet still concludes its not worthy of a reply. :P
It's an affliction.
Quote from: Jacob on December 11, 2014, 02:21:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2014, 02:12:07 PM
I really gotta disagree with Martim's notion that the races get along just fine in Brazil, and it's only those problematic left-wing american ideas that have brought the notion of racism into a country where it never existed.
It's a very diverse country, almost the same size as the US, and it was a country also very much affected by a history of slavery (and went on even longer than in the US). Yes, there has been more "mixing" of the races than in the US, but it's no accident that the elites in Brazil are very light-skinned, while those who live in the favelas have very dark skin...
An interesting thing I've come across in literature is how much race is tied to socio-economic status in Brazil, to the point that a poor favela resident will much more often be described as black (by himself and others) compared to a well off middle class individual, even if the middle class individual actually has darker skin and more African features than the favela resident.
From my experience (which was only 2 weeks, in one city in one particular part of brazil) - I forget exactly when this was said, but I thought there was a faint emphasis to point out that their heritage was european, not black (despite living in black-majority Bahia, and despite some of them having pretty dark skin). It was not that I ever heard a racist thing said about blacks, far from it, but it was still a pretty segregated society. When we went to a resort town, the town itself was populated by quite dark-skinned people, but all the guests were again light-skinned.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 11, 2014, 03:33:03 PM
Love how grumbler dissects a post into half a dozen segments and replies to each yet still concludes its not worthy of a reply. :P
Some segments worth responding to, some not. Love how you moan about my posts without apparently reading anything but the last line. :P
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2014, 11:17:06 AM
I shouldn't be amazed, but I am still shocked how 11B extols ignorance as a virtue.
Told you
sweet mulatto Ice Cream Cake
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthec10.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F01%2Fsweet-mulatto-Ice-Cream-Cake.jpg&hash=8179622448d2c72bc4ad644a7e1059f9196175e1)
Quote from: 11B4V on December 11, 2014, 07:44:15 PM
Told you
sweet mulatto Ice Cream Cake
"Sweet Mulatto" is also the name of one of your interracial porn series, fella. Still not off the hook.
You ass. I'm hungry now.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2014, 07:45:54 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 11, 2014, 07:44:15 PM
Told you
sweet mulatto Ice Cream Cake
"Sweet Mulatto" is also the name of one of your interracial porn series, fella. Still not off the hook.
My mother just asked me if perhaps "breed" is a better term. :D
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 11, 2014, 03:33:03 PM
Love how grumbler dissects a post into half a dozen segments and replies to each yet still concludes its not worthy of a reply. :P
Really? He never does that to me. :)
I teach history courses in 'Murican Hist'ry, so I use Mulattoe, and Octaroon, and Negro, when appropriate. 'Cause them are good words what explicate the dominant historical narrative, and shit.
While dressed as Colonel Reb.
The War of Northern Aggro. DPS pulled Ft. Sumter too early.
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2014, 09:59:07 PM
I was just at a holiday party (as a +1 to a friend's party) and had, as it happens, several occurrences of being asked my background / where I'm from. More than a few times when I explained, I got back "Oh so you're mulatto" to which I smiled my assent. One of the people was a black woman who then said, "Oh are we allowed to say that now?"
I realized that while I don't necessarily take issue with the term, it does feel dated / I don't use it personally as it makes me feel like a black person using slave terms.
What say you, Languish?
I have heard it before, but it sounds like a term from French, Portuguese or Spanish colonies.
I think the proper term in current polite society is "mixed heritage", but then, this is probably racist crap.
I don't know man. It is very confusing.
Americans call Black anybody with a drop of African.
And Mexican anybody with a drop of Spanish/Spaniard or whatever the eff it is called.
So to me Mulatto smells racist.
Why are people so bend in ethnically defining people they meet?
Aren't we post-racial?
Quote from: Siege on December 14, 2014, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2014, 09:59:07 PM
I was just at a holiday party (as a +1 to a friend's party) and had, as it happens, several occurrences of being asked my background / where I'm from. More than a few times when I explained, I got back "Oh so you're mulatto" to which I smiled my assent. One of the people was a black woman who then said, "Oh are we allowed to say that now?"
I realized that while I don't necessarily take issue with the term, it does feel dated / I don't use it personally as it makes me feel like a black person using slave terms.
What say you, Languish?
I have heard it before, but it sounds like a term from French, Portuguese or Spanish colonies.
I think the proper term in current polite society is "mixed heritage", but then, this is probably racist crap.
I don't know man. It is very confusing.
Americans call Black anybody with a drop of African.
And Mexican anybody with a drop of Spanish/Spaniard or whatever the eff it is called.
So to me Mulatto smells racist.
Why are people so bend in ethnically defining people they meet?
Aren't we post-racial?
Well, drunkie, I already noted in the thread, why I think it happens. :P
So Siege is a Black Mexican then, like all Sefardi? :hmm:
He's a Jewlatto.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 12, 2014, 11:15:58 AM
The War of Northern Aggro. DPS pulled Ft. Sumter too early.
Say what?
It's a gaming reference. DPS = damage per second.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 14, 2014, 11:04:26 PM
So Siege is a Black Mexican then, like all Sefardi? :hmm:
I would have you know that the Sefaradi were the original colonizer of southern Iberian peninsula operating as private contractors within the larger Phoenician trading network that included many cities from northern israel like Akko and Haifa.
Quote from: dps on December 15, 2014, 01:53:49 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 12, 2014, 11:15:58 AM
The War of Northern Aggro. DPS pulled Ft. Sumter too early.
Say what?
The War of Northern Aggression. Historical name for the ACW if the South had won.
DPS is a poster here and TimeTraveller who opened a different timeline by forcing an early start for the ACW.
"Try our holiday Blood Libel Latte!"
I not only never use that term, I cringe when I hear/read it.
"Mixed" is the preferred terminology around here.
Quote from: merithyn on December 16, 2014, 01:27:37 AM
"Mixed" is the preferred terminology around here.
While I think that's understandable for forms or what not - I don't think it would satisfy any of my questioners if I just said "I'm mixed." :D
Quote from: garbon on December 16, 2014, 09:45:06 AM
Quote from: merithyn on December 16, 2014, 01:27:37 AM
"Mixed" is the preferred terminology around here.
While I think that's understandable for forms or what not - I don't think it would satisfy any of my questioners if I just said "I'm mixed." :D
Why not? Everybody is mixed.
Just some people are more visuably mixed than others.
I, for example, am considered 100% Sefaradi because my 4 grandparents are sefaradi, but doesn't mean anything the farther back you go. There is a reason why the sefaradim and the ashkenazim look so different. It is called mixing the genes with the local population.
Otherwise all jews would look as sexy as me.
Unpossible! :o
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 16, 2014, 01:31:24 PM
Unpossible! :o
Are you making fun of my accent?
EO complaint!
Only thing I would bust your balls about are your chicken legs.
Quote from: Siege on December 16, 2014, 01:30:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 16, 2014, 09:45:06 AM
Quote from: merithyn on December 16, 2014, 01:27:37 AM
"Mixed" is the preferred terminology around here.
While I think that's understandable for forms or what not - I don't think it would satisfy any of my questioners if I just said "I'm mixed." :D
Why not? Everybody is mixed.
Just some people are more visuably mixed than others.
I, for example, am considered 100% Sefaradi because my 4 grandparents are sefaradi, but doesn't mean anything the farther back you go. There is a reason why the sefaradim and the ashkenazim look so different. It is called mixing the genes with the local population.
Otherwise all jews would look as sexy as me.
Because it doesn't really answer their question? Mixed really won't give them the special insight they help to glean from knowing my racial background. As to what they are trying to figure out when they ask these racial questions, I can't say beyond that sort of cultural bit as I don't ask questions like this and find them a bit tedious from someone who has just met me.
Can't imagine being so rude as to ask the question in the first place. Unless I really know the person, in which case I'd probably already know the answer.
Quote from: derspiess on December 16, 2014, 02:44:09 PM
Can't imagine being so rude as to ask the question in the first place. Unless I really know the person, in which case I'd probably already know the answer.
Well yeah it seems to me an odd question to ask when first meeting someone. While I guess visually it might stand out, I'd say that it is hardly in the top things that a person should know if they are just meeting me. I've no problems at all if someone asks me after they've known me a while - though usually by then it has inevitable come up. :D
Quote from: derspiess on December 16, 2014, 02:44:09 PM
Can't imagine being so rude as to ask the question in the first place. Unless I really know the person, in which case I'd probably already know the answer.
I dunno, people have always seemed comfortable enough to ask me about my "background." I'm not
that dark, goddammit.
Light does escape, barely.
I really hate it when people ask me where I am from.
"Sergeant, where are you from originally?"
My typical answers, depending on my mood:
"From 2-23 infantry, 4th Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division."
"From 3-187 infnatry, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 101 Airborne Division."
"From a place were polite people don't ask questions like this."
"From the western edge of the sandbox."
"What, you don't like my accent?"
"From hell."
"What, you don't like furriners?"
"From a mediterranean country that is not in Europe."
"From a country were people don't own lawnmowers."
"I don't know man, I got PTSD!"
"Do you have a problem understanding the words coming out of my mouth? I don't!"
"Its classified. Do you have a Top Secret clearance? No?!"
"I could tell you, but then I would have to make you do push ups."
"I forgot. I had a complete memory loss after my last IED."
"Give me 50 push-ups!"
Quote from: Siege on December 16, 2014, 08:50:37 PM
I really hate it when people ask me where I am from.
"Sergeant, where are you from originally?"
My typical answers, depending on my mood:
"From 2-23 infantry, 4th Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division."
"From 3-187 infnatry, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 101 Airborne Division."
"From a place were polite people don't ask questions like this."
"From the western edge of the sandbox."
"What, you don't like my accent?"
"From hell."
"What, you don't like furriners?"
"From a mediterranean country that is not in Europe."
"From a country were people don't own lawnmowers."
"I don't know man, I got PTSD!"
"Do you have a problem understanding the words coming out of my mouth? I don't!"
"Its classified. Do you have a Top Secret clearance? No?!"
"I could tell you, but then I would have to make you do push ups."
"I forgot. I had a complete memory loss after my last IED."
"Give me 50 push-ups!"
There's some good ones in there, I bet the context can makes those = :lol:
"Sergeant, can I ask you where are you from?"
"No, you can't. Why do you ask? Are you some kind of racist?"
"Sergeant, I'm black..."
"I don't care. Black people can be racist too. Do you belong to the Klu Kuz Klang?"
"Sergeant, the Ku Klux Klan are white racist people..."
"How do you know? Have you been to their meetings? Do you read their literature? Are you a member?"
"Ah...no Sergeant. Ah...I'm sorry I asked, Sergeant."
Five minutes later:
"Sergeant Siege, stop fucking with the new privates dammit!!111"
"Roger First Sergeant."
"Don't you have enough EO complaints against you?!!"
"Yes First Sergeant. Won't do it again."
"Don't fuck with me Siege, I know you can't shut your damn mouth! One of these days I'm gonna staple it!"
"Yes First Sergeant."
Five days later, new Soldier arrives:
"Sorry Sergeant, can I ask you where is your accent from?"
There was a period in my life, maybe 17 to 23, when I was awkwardly asked whether I was part black, by maybe 5 or 6 different people I didn't know well.
The most subtle was the ~45 year old black woman with whom I DIALED FOR DOLLAR$ at catty-corner telemarketing set-ups. On break, we were chatting and she mentioned that her granddaughter was "mixed," which gave her interesting hair. Actually, I have interesting hair, too -- am I by any chance Sicilian? No? Do I happen to be mixed as well?
The least subtle was a slightly drunk NYU undergrad girl. She marched up to me early in the night at a party and got straight to the point: "What race are you?"
I said: "White."
She said: "Like, *all* white?"
I: "Mm-hmm."
She: "You aren't even a little bit black ?"
I: "No, I'm just white."
She: "Really?" And then wandered off, unconvinced, to get a drink or powder her nose or something...
You should have said part black and hit that shit.
Mihalia, didn't you say one time that you had Mexican family you were thinking about visiting?
Siegy is Epstein from Welcome Back, Kotter.
You should have heard the tongue-lashing First Sergeant gave him when he tried to get out of drill with a note from his mother.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 16, 2014, 09:36:05 PM
Mihalia, didn't you say one time that you had Mexican family you were thinking about visiting?
Yeah, I have extensive family in Mexico, but I've only met one great-uncle and a couple of his kids when they came to the States to visit. My grandfather knew them better. I don't have any Mexican heritage though. In 1900 or whatever, one brother took the boat from Poland to NYC; the other took the boat to Veracruz. The first one is my great-grandfather.
Asoka.
Devon Asoka?