I'm always in agreement that their constitution has to be amended, but then a Japanese supporter of that opens their mouth and then I'm back on the fence. Just disgraceful. <_<
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/how-japans-bbc-is-rewriting-its-role-in-second-world-war-9115827.html
QuoteHow Japan's 'BBC' is rewriting its role in the Second World War
Naoki Hyakuta says Japan was lured into the Second World War by America while liberating Asia from white colonialism.
He denies war crimes such as the 1937 Nanjing massacre, when Japanese troops killed thousands of Chinese civilians. Such views are common among revisionists in Japan. Mr Hyakuta, however, sits on the board of the nation's public service broadcaster.
NHK has annual revenue of more than $6bn (£3.7bn), putting it close to the BBC. Like the British broadcaster, it is obliged to be impartial and aloof from the political fray, so the company is under intense fire for the extraordinary views of four its governors, all reportedly handpicked by the right-wing Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe. The 12-member board controls programming policy and budgets.
The furore began two weeks ago in a press conference by NHK's new chairman, Katsuto Momii, who stunned journalists by saying it was "only natural" that NHK should follow the government line on Japan's territorial disputes with its neighbours. "When the government says 'left' we can't say 'right'," he said. He then defended Japan's wartime system of sex slaves, saying such a system was "commonplace" in war.
Next up it was the turn of board member Michiko Hasegawa. In an essay written a month before her appointment, she eulogised an ultra-nationalist who committed ritual suicide a decade ago in protest outside Japan's liberal-left Asahi newspaper. "There could be no better offering," said Ms Hasegawa.
Mr Hyakuta is a vocal supporter of Toshio Tamogami, the candidate for Tokyo governor who was sacked as air-force general in 2007 for denying the accepted narrative of the war. In a speech last week campaigning for Mr Tamogami, he called the Nanking Massacre a "fabrication".
The appointments have crystallised lingering fears about Mr Abe's agenda. He wants to radically overhaul three of Japan's basic modern charters: the 1946 pacifist constitution, the education law and the security treaty with the United States.
Critics say such a far-reaching project would have profound consequences for Japan, but the NHK controversy seems to show that Mr Abe intends to shut debate down. "Momii is perfectly willing to, in effect, turn NHK into a propaganda mouthpiece of the current administration," thundered an unusually fierce editorial in The Japan Times.
The battle lines around Mr Abe's agenda are set to harden. His ruling Liberal Democratic Party is preparing to challenge the constitutional ban on collective self-defence, a pillar of Japan's post-war pacifist stance. Opinion polls suggest that more than half of the public oppose Mr Abe's pet project. Having the state broadcaster on your side no doubt helps.
Theirs is a fascinating tribe.
and befor you know it the thought "Two nukes was not nearly enough" pops into mind...
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 09, 2014, 12:34:00 PM
QuoteNaoki Hyakuta says Japan was lured into the Second World War by America while liberating Asia from white colonialism.
That explains it. China loved White Colonialism and was willing to fight to the death to preserve it.
Wow, Japan and China in a yet another monkey shitfight over whose interpretation of history is more accurate more emotionally appealing.
This article would have you believe Abe is beset with critics or that this issue has created more internal controversy than is actually the case.
Why is Lettow in every Japanese theme thread?
Well, they were removing white colonization from Asia. It's just that not only is removing white colonization an objectively bad thing, but even from the point of view of the colonized, being ruled by the Japanese was no better than being ruled by the French, British, Dutch or Americans.
Quote from: Siege on February 09, 2014, 07:27:55 PM
Why is Lettow in every Japanese theme thread?
Perhaps you can enlighten us, why does a man sell out to East Asia?
Quote from: Lettow77 on February 09, 2014, 07:20:42 PM
This article would have you believe Abe is beset with critics or that this issue has created more internal controversy than is actually the case.
Yeah. It's weird really, the way the Foreign press reports on japan. They make it out that because someone with stupid views on certain areas wins in life it was because of those views rather than in spite of them.
Most Japanese people couldn't care less about this sort of thing. Foreign policy ranks very low on voters issues in japan
Squeeze, you do understand most of us are not going to interpret that statement as a defense of the Japanese people, right?
It wasn't meant to be. It was a criticism of weird foreign reporting.
Right wingers say stupid crap to appeal to the fringes and life goes on.
Quote from: Tyr on February 09, 2014, 11:01:31 PM
It wasn't meant to be. It was a criticism of weird foreign reporting.
Right wingers say stupid crap to appeal to the fringes and life goes on.
Sounds to me like the foreign press has it right, and the ignorance or indifference of the Japanese voters to the consequences of their choices is to blame.
There's actually nothing "weird" about reporting on the bizarre antics of an elected government.
There aren't really much in the way of consequences though. That's why most of the population just shrugs off the right wingers trying to gain the extremist vote. The kind of person who wouldn't vote for someone for saying this kind of thing is also the kind of person who is probably never going to vote for a right wing party anyway.
China being a dick to Japan pre-dates the right's return to power and even the most right wing of politicians have no intention of actually seriously acting on any of the generic far right spleel.
I say it's weird because this kind of thing is a pretty normal part of Japanese politics, a right winger in Japan saying something ignorant about the imperial era is like a republican in the US declaring abortion bad, nothing particularly novel and newsworthy.
Quote from: Tyr on February 09, 2014, 11:01:31 PM
It wasn't meant to be. It was a criticism of weird foreign reporting.
Right wingers say stupid crap to appeal to the fringes and life goes on.
Let's ignore the far-right as some ridiculous band of lunatics who could never get close to power. What could happen.
Quote from: Tyr on February 09, 2014, 10:55:25 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on February 09, 2014, 07:20:42 PM
This article would have you believe Abe is beset with critics or that this issue has created more internal controversy than is actually the case.
Yeah. It's weird really, the way the Foreign press reports on japan. They make it out that because someone with stupid views on certain areas wins in life it was because of those views rather than in spite of them.
Most Japanese people couldn't care less about this sort of thing. Foreign policy ranks very low on voters issues in japan
The four governors in question were handpicked because of their right wing views, not in spite of them.
Quote from: Tyr on February 10, 2014, 09:02:29 AM
There aren't really much in the way of consequences though. That's why most of the population just shrugs off the right wingers trying to gain the extremist vote. The kind of person who wouldn't vote for someone for saying this kind of thing is also the kind of person who is probably never going to vote for a right wing party anyway.
China being a dick to Japan pre-dates the right's return to power and even the most right wing of politicians have no intention of actually seriously acting on any of the generic far right spleel.
I say it's weird because this kind of thing is a pretty normal part of Japanese politics, a right winger in Japan saying something ignorant about the imperial era is like a republican in the US declaring abortion bad, nothing particularly novel and newsworthy.
The argument that one should ignore weird pronouncements from the Japanese government because most Japanese don't think weird pronouncements are weird assumes that Japanese weirdness is the norm, and that Western normality is the weird (and, thus, Western reports about how weird Japan is are the weird thing, not the Japanese government's actions).
I challenge your assumption that ignoring historical facts in favor of historical fiction is fine, and that it is "weird" to report on governments which have such a policy.
Quote from: Tyr on February 10, 2014, 09:02:29 AM
There aren't really much in the way of consequences though. That's why most of the population just shrugs off the right wingers trying to gain the extremist vote. The kind of person who wouldn't vote for someone for saying this kind of thing is also the kind of person who is probably never going to vote for a right wing party anyway.
China being a dick to Japan pre-dates the right's return to power and even the most right wing of politicians have no intention of actually seriously acting on any of the generic far right spleel.
I say it's weird because this kind of thing is a pretty normal part of Japanese politics, a right winger in Japan saying something ignorant about the imperial era is like a republican in the US declaring abortion bad, nothing particularly novel and newsworthy.
Awesome analogy. :lol:
The thing you don't seem to get Squeeze, is that the rest of don't find either of those things acceptable, neither the right wing politicians saying things that are blatantly untrue, or the rest of the country being indifferent.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 09, 2014, 02:09:31 PM
Wow, Japan and China in a yet another monkey shitfight over whose interpretation of history is more accurate more emotionally appealing.
The article makes it sound like the debate is an internal Japanese one at this point.
Quote from: Jacob on February 10, 2014, 02:33:10 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 09, 2014, 02:09:31 PM
Wow, Japan and China in a yet another monkey shitfight over whose interpretation of history is more accurate more emotionally appealing.
The article makes it sound like the debate is an internal Japanese one at this point.
Meh, maybe it's because I always get all my up-to-the-minute, live-local-latebreaking Japanese Atrocity Denial News from Xinhua and the PLA first.
http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/today-headlines/2014-02/06/content_5760142.htm
Denial's not just a river in Hokkaido, pal!
ROFLnoodles.
QuoteU.S. official's unfounded criticism over China's ADIZ ignores real threat to the region
(Source: Xinhua) 2014-02-07
by Liu Chang
BEIJING, Feb. 5 (Xinhua) -- A senior U.S. security official, in an interview with Kyodo News, has warned that the announcement of another air defense identification zone (ADIZ) by China would trigger an expansion of U.S. military presence in the Asia-Pacific.
However, the warning of Evan Medeiros, senior director for Asian affairs at the U.S. National Security Council, is unfounded as he might have not realized that the real threat to the region comes from Japan, not China.
Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his right-leaning government are the source of surging tensions and hostility in the region.
In his 2014 State of the Union address, U.S. President Barack Obama said his country will continue to focus on the Asia-Pacific and support its allies in the region. But if the United States continues to spoil trouble-making Japan, more provocative actions are expected from Tokyo. As a result, the regional situation would turn messier to a point that regional security and economic interests of various countries would be jeopardized.
China's establishment of ADIZ in the East China Sea, as a defensive measure to safeguard national air security, is in line with international law and practice, and does not affect the freedom of civil aviation. No one is in a position to point a finger.
Nevertheless, the Japanese government is trying to fabricate "China threat" as an excuse to revise its pacifist constitution so that Japan can wage war.
Thus, it is high time for the Obama administration to see through Abe's political tricks and to cage the trigger-happy elements in Japan.
To pamper an ambitious ally that refuses to reflect on its own history of aggression and that is eager to challenge the post-war world order will wreck havoc in the region and the world as a whole.
Some whacking material for Timmay and Lettow. Squee.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4nabs.com%2Fupload%2Flocal8%2F_2011_sendai_earthquake_and_tsunami_crapgame_error_eyepatch_flag_japan_ground_self-defense_force_katana_map_military_military_uniform_operation_tomodachi_ponytail_sakamoto_mio_strike_witches_sword_uniform_weapon__LoTf9ieenr.jpg&hash=6783aee263ccbf07f07d6e703562710548ad69a4)
Here is an article from the Chinese side of things:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/10/opinion/murong-chinas-television-war-on-japan.html?_r=0
Quote
China's Television War on Japan
FEB. 9, 2014
Contributing Op-Ed Writer
By MURONG XUECUN
BEIJING — Iron Palm Du Dapeng's eyes are burning with rage. The Chinese martial arts expert strikes a Japanese soldier with his fist and then, using his supernatural powers, tears the soldier in half. Blood splatters, but not a drop lands on the kung fu master.
This is one of many violent scenes in the Chinese television series "The Anti-Japanese Knight," a recent action drama set during the Japanese invasion of China in the 1930s. Like many Chinese television dramas, the "Anti-Japanese Knight" promotes patriotism and praises the Communist Party for defeating the Japanese, while conveniently leaving out mention of the decisive role played by the Chinese Nationalists in that war. The violence and anti-Japanese tone send a clear message that killing is acceptable — as long as the targets are "Japanese devils."
I have little doubt that many Chinese people take the "Anti-Japanese Knight" and its version of history as fact, just as I used to think that China won the second Sino-Japanese War by digging tunnels in villages and planting homemade land mines, thanks to "Tunnel Warfare" and "Landmine Warfare," two classic Chinese-made war movies from the 1960s.
Before television arrived in the countryside, film teams took projectors to villages to screen movies; they were often shown outdoors. As a child in the 1970s, I'd go to screenings as often as possible, blissfully unaware that most of what I was watching was Communist Party propaganda. I must have watched "Tunnel Warfare" and "Landmine Warfare" at least a dozen times.
When I turn on the television these days, I notice not much has changed. The second Sino-Japanese War may have ended in 1945, but the Chinese people are still haunted by it. Enemy Japanese soldiers run amok on Chinese screens. The state-approved films and TV dramas of today are more colorful and the actors are better-looking than in the films of 1960s and '70s, but the themes remain the same.
The state prohibits content that "incites ethnic hatred," yet according to Southern Weekly more than 70 anti-Japanese TV series were screened in China in 2012. And in March 2013 the newspaper reported that 48 anti-Japanese-themed TV series were being shot simultaneously in Hengdian World Studios, a film studio in Zhejiang Province, in eastern China.
The result of this stream of rancor is just what you'd expect. A July 2013 Pew research report found that 90 percent of Chinese people have an unfavorable view of Japan. And the hatred for Japan is intensifying. Pew said that "favorability" for Japan has fallen 17 percentage points since 2006.
The anti-Japan virulence drummed up by the media is in full display online. Websites popular among young Chinese nationalists, like Tiexue (Iron Blood) and April Media, are riddled with slogans such as "Destroy Japanese dogs!" or "Annihilate the Japanese people!"
The flow of hate comes while China is building up its military, leaving its neighbors on edge. Beijing will spend $148 billion on its military this year, up from $139 billion in 2013. It launched its first aircraft carrier in 2012, and is building a fleet of submarines that it hopes will outnumber the American fleet.
A hard-line, anti-Western documentary film produced by the Chinese military called "Silent Contest," circulated online in October 2013, revealed a troubling war-thirsty mind-set among the military. The video attempted to make the case that the United States is actively working to sabotage the Chinese government. Whoever leaked this video may not represent mainstream military thinking, but there is no doubt that pro-military voices are growing louder.
Meanwhile, Beijing repeatedly criticizes Tokyo's "militarism." But what are China's leaders thinking when they promote such hate of their neighbor? The world must be vigilant against "militarism" whenever it arises, but the Chinese government needs to review its own propaganda policies — and weigh the consequences of barraging citizens with such a negative view of Japan.
For now, a small chain of uninhabited islands in the East China Sea is the focal point of contention between the China and Japan. In 2012, tensions over the islands triggered anti-Japanese riots in Chinese cities. Cai Yang, a 21-year-old construction worker in Xi'an, smashed the skull of Li Jianli, the owner of a Japanese car, with a bicycle lock.
Mr. Cai's mother, explaining the source of her son's "patriotic" rage, couldn't have been more trenchant with her question: "When we turn on the TV, most of the dramas are about anti-Japanese war. How would it be possible to not to hate Japanese?"
Murong Xuecun is a novelist and blogger and the author of "Leave Me Alone: A Novel of Chengdu." This article was translated by The New York Times from the Chinese.
QuoteThe result of this stream of rancor is just what you'd expect. A July 2013 Pew research report found that 90 percent of Chinese people have an unfavorable view of Japan. And the hatred for Japan is intensifying. Pew said that "favorability" for Japan has fallen 17 percentage points since 2006.
This makes Zombie 4-Story Tall Portrait of Chairman Mao very happy.
QuoteThe video attempted to make the case that the United States is actively working to sabotage the Chinese government.
Pfft, if only. :rolleyes:
Quotebut the Chinese government needs to review its own propaganda policies — and weigh the consequences of barraging citizens with such a negative view of Japan.
But that's not how the Chinese think.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 10, 2014, 05:31:56 PM
Some whacking material for Timmay and Lettow. Squee.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4nabs.com%2Fupload%2Flocal8%2F_2011_sendai_earthquake_and_tsunami_crapgame_error_eyepatch_flag_japan_ground_self-defense_force_katana_map_military_military_uniform_operation_tomodachi_ponytail_sakamoto_mio_strike_witches_sword_uniform_weapon__LoTf9ieenr.jpg&hash=6783aee263ccbf07f07d6e703562710548ad69a4)
This (fan-made, I assume) pic is from the Strike Witches anime. It *is* whacky. The show took place around WWII time, except that the war didn't happen. Instead, aliens invaded earth and all the nations (yes, including Japan and Germany) joined forces to fight them. So there were scenes of Tigers and Shermans fighting on the same side. But the focus is on the strike witches like these two. They are each modelled on real life WWII fighter aces. The whackiest part is that, in this world, all females walk around with no pants on, strike witches or not.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 10, 2014, 07:45:56 PM
The whackiest part is that, in this world, all females walk around with no pants on, strike witches or not.
I don't find that whacky in the least.
Maybe they all just forgot to put them on.
Aliens invade during WWII...all the major powers unite against them....women without pants.
Sounds like they ripped off a Turtledove novel.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 10, 2014, 07:55:20 PM
Maybe they all just forgot to put them on.
The strike witches fight with leggings that enable them to fly. The instory explanation for not wearing pants is to allow them to put on the flying leggings with as short notice as possible. That doesn't really explain why non-strike witches go to school showing their underwear though :lol:
Quote from: Monoriu on February 10, 2014, 08:30:53 PM
That doesn't really explain why non-strike witches go to school showing their underwear though :lol:
Oh, I think we've got a bead on the explanation of that one when it comes to Japanese culture.
It would be a great idea except for the fact that if it happened in real life the results would be horrible. :P
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 10, 2014, 08:11:52 PM
Aliens invade during WWII...all the major powers unite against them....women without pants.
Sounds like they ripped off a Turtledove novel.
It is a highly acclaimed and very enjoyable series. The dozen or so heroines all have distinctive personalities and backstories. The best part is actually the heartwarming friendship and camaraderie shown. The all-star Japanese voice cast helped too. There are almost no males in the show. But the fanservice is blatent, almost approaching soft-porn territory, with half-naked girls in baths all the time.
Fanservice?
Quote from: garbon on February 10, 2014, 08:41:20 PM
Fanservice?
Sorry, it is anime-speak for showing lots of female skin for no plot-related reason, just to please the fans. And to sell the merchandise, figures and toys. Anime shows themselves don't make money. They are just advertisements.
Jap cartoon porn is wicked. Tentacles. Heh.
In reality, I am sure that overall Japanese porn is no more weird than U.S. porn. You can find extremes in both.
Are "attractive" cartoons that exciting? :unsure:
Quote from: garbon on February 10, 2014, 08:49:29 PM
Are "attractive" cartoons that exciting? :unsure:
Let's just say that an anime setting allows many fantasy scenarios that otherwise will be too difficult and expensive to film.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 10, 2014, 07:45:56 PM
But the focus is on the strike witches like these two. They are each modelled on real life WWII fighter aces. The whackiest part is that, in this world, all females walk around with no pants on, strike witches or not.
Why does her shirt say US Army then? The chairforce will be outraged their porny pantless fighter ace is in the army.
No chairforce in the 1930s.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 10, 2014, 08:30:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 10, 2014, 07:55:20 PM
Maybe they all just forgot to put them on.
The strike witches fight with leggings that enable them to fly. The instory explanation for not wearing pants is to allow them to put on the flying leggings with as short notice as possible. That doesn't really explain why non-strike witches go to school showing their underwear though :lol:
Okay, I had to look and see if this was a real thing. Ugh. Why do a bunch of them have cat ears? Does that also let them fly?
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 10, 2014, 08:49:09 PM
In reality, I am sure that overall Japanese porn is no more weird than U.S. porn. You can find extremes in both.
Not a lot of animated porn in the US. I imagine it exists, but much easier to pay some junkie then to animate it.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2014, 09:23:35 PM
Okay, I had to look and see if this was a real thing. Ugh. Why do a bunch of them have cat ears? Does that also let them fly?
They are witches, and they need magical power to fly and fight. When they use magical power, they grow animal tails and ears. When they stop using such powers, the animal features disappear. Don't ask me why. That's just the way it is in the story ;)
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on February 09, 2014, 01:35:39 PM
and befor you know it the thought "Two nukes was not nearly enough" pops into mind...
Well certainly now after this most recent thread turn...
Quote from: Valmy on February 10, 2014, 09:08:01 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 10, 2014, 07:45:56 PM
But the focus is on the strike witches like these two. They are each modelled on real life WWII fighter aces. The whackiest part is that, in this world, all females walk around with no pants on, strike witches or not.
Why does her shirt say US Army then? The chairforce will be outraged their porny pantless fighter ace is in the army.
What MiM said. That character is based on real life US WWII ace Chuck Yeager, who is still alive as at today. The anime producers asked him if it is ok for a half naked anime character to model after him :lol:
I wonder if he can still do strafing runs with a P-47...
But kinda back to the original topic...it seems most nations go through a cyclical period of increasingly growing nationalism up until getting smacked down by a greater power/alliance.
Some go through that cycle faster than others...especially the defeated/smacked-down countries seem to do so at even more accelerated rate (to make up for some idea of shame perhaps).
I think I might call it the "tetherball" theory of cyclical nationalism. :P
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 10, 2014, 08:11:52 PM
Aliens invade during WWII...all the major powers unite against them....women without pants.
Sounds like they ripped off a Turtledove novel.
Women wore pants in those novels. -_-
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 10, 2014, 10:25:25 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 10, 2014, 08:11:52 PM
Aliens invade during WWII...all the major powers unite against them....women without pants.
Sounds like they ripped off a Turtledove novel.
Women wore pants in those novels. -_-
It was a crack about the bad sex scenes in Turtledove novels. :rolleyes:
And I don't think the lizards wore pants...
For anyone who wants to check out the anime, the chronological watching order is -
OVA - Season 1 - Season 2 - film.
The OVA is hard to find. It is a test run to see audience reaction so that they can modify the character designs. So the OVA characters look a bit different from their usual forms. The OVA is not really connected to the rest story-wise, so it is not fatal to skip it. Don't watch the film before the two TV seasons, as there are spoilers about the ending.
Season 3 is in production, and will probably feature a different cast.
"Mistakes were made."
Countries love whitewashing their pasts. I'm not going to hold a bunch of shit that happened 70 years ago against modern Japan, especially when Japan is needed to help encircle and destroy China.
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 10, 2014, 08:49:09 PM
In reality, I am sure that overall Japanese porn is no more weird than U.S. porn. You can find extremes in both.
Check out Dogma productions.
Quote from: Neil on February 10, 2014, 11:23:22 PM
Countries love whitewashing their pasts. I'm not going to hold a bunch of shit that happened 70 years ago against modern Japan, especially when Japan is needed to help encircle and destroy China.
Japan is a far greater threat.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2014, 11:51:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 10, 2014, 11:23:22 PM
Countries love whitewashing their pasts. I'm not going to hold a bunch of shit that happened 70 years ago against modern Japan, especially when Japan is needed to help encircle and destroy China.
Japan is a far greater threat.
You couldn't be more wrong.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2014, 11:51:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 10, 2014, 11:23:22 PM
Countries love whitewashing their pasts. I'm not going to hold a bunch of shit that happened 70 years ago against modern Japan, especially when Japan is needed to help encircle and destroy China.
Japan is a far greater threat.
Sounds unlikely.
Quote from: fhdz on February 10, 2014, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2014, 11:51:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 10, 2014, 11:23:22 PM
Countries love whitewashing their pasts. I'm not going to hold a bunch of shit that happened 70 years ago against modern Japan, especially when Japan is needed to help encircle and destroy China.
Japan is a far greater threat.
You couldn't be more wrong.
Did you forget who you were talking to?
Quote from: Maximus on February 11, 2014, 12:10:36 AM
Quote from: fhdz on February 10, 2014, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2014, 11:51:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 10, 2014, 11:23:22 PM
Countries love whitewashing their pasts. I'm not going to hold a bunch of shit that happened 70 years ago against modern Japan, especially when Japan is needed to help encircle and destroy China.
Japan is a far greater threat.
You couldn't be more wrong.
Did you forget who you were talking to?
I always do. It's my curse.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2014, 09:25:23 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 10, 2014, 08:49:09 PM
In reality, I am sure that overall Japanese porn is no more weird than U.S. porn. You can find extremes in both.
Not a lot of animated porn in the US. I imagine it exists, but much easier to pay some junkie then to animate it.
Your lack of respect for women is disturbing and sad.
Quote from: fhdz on February 10, 2014, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2014, 11:51:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 10, 2014, 11:23:22 PM
Countries love whitewashing their pasts. I'm not going to hold a bunch of shit that happened 70 years ago against modern Japan, especially when Japan is needed to help encircle and destroy China.
Japan is a far greater threat.
You couldn't be more wrong.
Anime is a far greater threat to Western society then a thousand non-wars with China.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 10, 2014, 09:43:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2014, 09:23:35 PM
Okay, I had to look and see if this was a real thing. Ugh. Why do a bunch of them have cat ears? Does that also let them fly?
They are witches, and they need magical power to fly and fight. When they use magical power, they grow animal tails and ears. When they stop using such powers, the animal features disappear. Don't ask me why. That's just the way it is in the story ;)
Did they set out on making a record for anime fetishes touched upon a single production?
Also, China seems to have been obliterated in their version of the world:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F2%2F25%2FStrikeWitchesWorldMap.JPG&hash=c8caf720353b1b71af1da9f862e5920bddc4602a)
Quote from: grumbler on February 10, 2014, 10:29:54 AM
The argument that one should ignore weird pronouncements from the Japanese government because most Japanese don't think weird pronouncements are weird assumes that Japanese weirdness is the norm, and that Western normality is the weird (and, thus, Western reports about how weird Japan is are the weird thing, not the Japanese government's actions).
The norm for Japan is still a norm. If Japan was a newly discovered country then reporting on their norm would be newsworthy but since it is the established way of things here it is weird to report on it like this, as if it was something out of the oridinary in Japan.
Quote
I challenge your assumption that ignoring historical facts in favor of historical fiction is fine, and that it is "weird" to report on governments which have such a policy.
Challenge that assumption all you want, it's not one I hold.
QuoteAwesome analogy. :lol:
The thing you don't seem to get Squeeze, is that the rest of don't find either of those things acceptable, neither the right wing politicians saying things that are blatantly untrue, or the rest of the country being indifferent.
I don't find it acceptable either. Its why I'm a leftist.
In an ideal world the far right would stay in school and learn their history (I'm not just belittling them here. The far right does heavily recruit from high school drop outs. Junior neo-fascists are a frequent annoyance at inter-school events, it really is rather odd from a western POV) and the far right wouldn't exist. But we don't live in an ideal world and so people will use freedom of speech for idiocy.
Since far right views in Japan at the moment are merely at the level of an irritant and aren't an actual threat it's pretty standard procedure for the right to try and prove their credentials with the loonies. People accept that this is the case and if they're inclined to vote for the right for more sensible reasons then it isn't going to stop them, there are far more important issues in Japan than politicians muttering views of history that everyone with half a brain knows to be incorrect.
Tied in with this schilling for the far right vote, and far far more important and worthy of attention from the west (yet it never gets it, since "OMFG Pearl Harbor 2 is just around the corner" sells better), is politicians/far right groups connections with the yakuza.
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 04:13:50 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 10, 2014, 09:43:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2014, 09:23:35 PM
Okay, I had to look and see if this was a real thing. Ugh. Why do a bunch of them have cat ears? Does that also let them fly?
They are witches, and they need magical power to fly and fight. When they use magical power, they grow animal tails and ears. When they stop using such powers, the animal features disappear. Don't ask me why. That's just the way it is in the story ;)
Did they set out on making a record for anime fetishes touched upon a single production?
Also, China seems to have been obliterated in their version of the world:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F2%2F25%2FStrikeWitchesWorldMap.JPG&hash=c8caf720353b1b71af1da9f862e5920bddc4602a)
I think there are far more weird animes out there. Strike Witches is, by anime standards, not particularly weird or over the top. Negima is an anime with a 10-year old male lead and over 30 named female characters (all of them are his students), each with at least one fetish represented. Nobuna's Ambition is a story about a guy who time-travels to the Sengoku era, only to find that the majority of the historical warlords have turned into cute girls. Girls und Panzer is about teenaged girls who drive WWII era tanks around as a school sport and national competition. In this world, fighting in tanks is considered a traditional female hobby on par with floral arrangement. Did I mention that the schools in the Girls und Panzer world are located on the decks of giant, city-sized aircraft carriers, and such carriers are operated by school-aged girls as well?
Strike witches is based on fighter aces. There is an upcoming one based on warships. Yes, cute, moe girls drawn to represent destroyers and battleships.
Let's see, of the 11 main heroines, 2 are from Japan, 3 are German, 1 is French, 1 is a Brit, 1 is Russian, 1 is a Fin, 1 is Italian, and the last one is an American. Each of the heroine not only represents a real historical fighter ace, but a type of WWII era fighter aircraft as well. The reason why China is not included is probably because China didn't have a WWII fighter ace, and didn't have any notable aircraft.
Fair enough they didn't include China, there was no need to put a giant gaping hole where China used to stay though :p
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 05:05:15 AM
Fair enough they didn't include China, there was no need to put a giant gaping hole where China used to stay though :p
Well, I don't mind. Story-wise, 22 out of the 24 episodes (and the film) take place in Europe. 2 episodes happen in Japan. So the rest of the world doesn't really matter.
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 05:05:15 AM
Fair enough they didn't include China, there was no need to put a giant gaping hole where China used to stay though :p
Well, they obliterated the Middle east and a chunk of Australia too, and America seems to have taken such a geographical beating that it doesn't remember its real shape anymore.
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 04:26:40 AM
In an ideal world the far right would stay in school and learn their history (I'm not just belittling them here. The far right does heavily recruit from high school drop outs. Junior neo-fascists are a frequent annoyance at inter-school events, it really is rather odd from a western POV) and the far right wouldn't exist. But we don't live in an ideal world and so people will use freedom of speech for idiocy.
Since far right views in Japan at the moment are merely at the level of an irritant and aren't an actual threat it's pretty standard procedure for the right to try and prove their credentials with the loonies. People accept that this is the case and if they're inclined to vote for the right for more sensible reasons then it isn't going to stop them, there are far more important issues in Japan than politicians muttering views of history that everyone with half a brain knows to be incorrect.
Tied in with this schilling for the far right vote, and far far more important and worthy of attention from the west (yet it never gets it, since "OMFG Pearl Harbor 2 is just around the corner" sells better), is politicians/far right groups connections with the yakuza.
I think the problem is that the folks to make these false statements are not random lunatics or ordinary citizens. They often occupy positions of authority and responsibility, and they are handpicked by people who are even higher up in the ladder. I've seen cabinet level ministers making similar claims. An analogy would be a random guy in Berlin denying the holocaust, probably not that big a deal. A German official handpicked by the chancellor making such a claim, that warrants some concern.
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 04:26:40 AM
The norm for Japan is still a norm. If Japan was a newly discovered country then reporting on their norm would be newsworthy but since it is the established way of things here it is weird to report on it like this, as if it was something out of the oridinary in Japan.
It is weird to not understand that the media is reporting for their own audiences, not for Japanese audiences. While these weird actions may be typical for Japan, they are not typical for the audiences that non-Japanese media are serving, and are thus newsworthy.
QuoteChallenge that assumption all you want, it's not one I hold.
You argue that the fact that the Japanese government-owned media are reporting falsehoods as facts is "the established way of doing things," and thus a "weird" thing for the media to cover, so, yeah, you
are arguing based on that assumption, if you believe your own arguments. It could be that you are arguing things you don't believe, I suppose. You wouldn't be the first...
Sorry Grumbler. I give you a reply or two out of common decency applying to all but I don't like the arguing for arguings sake game.
QuoteI think the problem is that the folks to make these false statements are not random lunatics or ordinary citizens. They often occupy positions of authority and responsibility, and they are handpicked by people who are even higher up in the ladder. I've seen cabinet level ministers making similar claims. An analogy would be a random guy in Berlin denying the holocaust, probably not that big a deal. A German official handpicked by the chancellor making such a claim, that warrants some concern.
That analogy gets made a lot but it isn't quite as simple as that. Japan didn't have the total break with history that Germany had post war. There wasn't anything like de-Nazification and demonisation of broad swathes of its history. There's a continuity here.
I'd say it lies somewhere between the Germans speaking well of Nazis and say a Brit speaking well of the British empire; kind of non-kosher and un-PC to many but not at all in the realms of indefensiblity.
The whole point I was making is that these are the views of a fringe group. Right wing politicians however feel compelled to claim to hold them to a greater or lesser extent in order to beat the other right wingers to the fringe group vote. There's a general understanding that these aren't views that any of them hold particularly close to their heart and they don't have to actually do much about them. If a right wing politician were to come out and speak against such views then he would cause a rift in his party at best, more likely just ruin his own career.
So in conclusion: People should vote for the left.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 10, 2014, 10:38:49 PM
For anyone who wants to check out the anime, the chronological watching order is -
OVA - Season 1 - Season 2 - film.
The OVA is hard to find. It is a test run to see audience reaction so that they can modify the character designs. So the OVA characters look a bit different from their usual forms. The OVA is not really connected to the rest story-wise, so it is not fatal to skip it. Don't watch the film before the two TV seasons, as there are spoilers about the ending.
Season 3 is in production, and will probably feature a different cast.
Strike Witches?
I skipped this one because the name sounded too corny to me.
I might have made a mistakes that requires immediate rectification.
Quote from: Siege on February 11, 2014, 08:23:37 AM
Strike Witches?
I skipped this one because the name sounded too corny to me.
I might have made a mistakes that requires immediate rectification.
I initially thought it was just senseless fanservice. But after watching an episode or two I was totally hooked. What sells the show is how close the heroines really are despite any initial disagreements, and the lengths they are willing to go for each other. The fight scenes are cool as well. The overall tone is quite positive and even light-hearted at times, despite the setting of the show with alien invasion and occupation.
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 08:03:08 AM
So in conclusion: People should vote for the left.
DPJ surrender monkeys? I think not.
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 08:03:08 AM
I'd say it lies somewhere between the Germans speaking well of Nazis and say a Brit speaking well of the British empire; kind of non-kosher and un-PC to many but not at all in the realms of indefensiblity.
Which statement are you referring to? That the Rape of Nanjing didn't happen, or that Japan was tricked into WWII by America?
Wait, Tyr thinks it's inappropriate for Britons to fondly remember the empire? All of the sudden that throws everything he's been saying into doubt.
QuoteWhich statement are you referring to? That the Rape of Nanjing didn't happen, or that Japan was tricked into WWII by America?
Neither, I'm just speaking generally.
Quote from: Neil on February 11, 2014, 09:05:44 AM
Wait, Tyr thinks it's inappropriate for Britons to fondly remember the empire? All of the sudden that throws everything he's been saying into doubt.
I don't no. That was an example of an acceptable argument on one hide with the utterly unacceptable speaking well of the Nazis on the other.
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 08:03:08 AM
Sorry Grumbler. I give you a reply or two out of common decency applying to all but I don't like the arguing for arguings sake game.
That's okay. You had stopped making actual arguments several exchanges ago, anyway; as you say, you were just arguing for arguments' sake.
We can just agree to agree that I am correct. :D
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 08:03:08 AM
The whole point I was making is that these are the views of a fringe group. Right wing politicians however feel compelled to claim to hold them to a greater or lesser extent in order to beat the other right wingers to the fringe group vote. There's a general understanding that these aren't views that any of them hold particularly close to their heart and they don't have to actually do much about them. If a right wing politician were to come out and speak against such views then he would cause a rift in his party at best, more likely just ruin his own career.
If a politician say he believes X, then appoints other people to positions of authority that believe X, who then go on to spread propaganda favoring that view to the nation via public broadcasting, then it's fair to suspect that perhaps that politician really does hold that view close to his heart.
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 09:33:11 AM
Neither, I'm just speaking generally.
No specific statements that get reported match your general description.
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 04:13:50 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 10, 2014, 09:43:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2014, 09:23:35 PM
Okay, I had to look and see if this was a real thing. Ugh. Why do a bunch of them have cat ears? Does that also let them fly?
They are witches, and they need magical power to fly and fight. When they use magical power, they grow animal tails and ears. When they stop using such powers, the animal features disappear. Don't ask me why. That's just the way it is in the story ;)
Did they set out on making a record for anime fetishes touched upon a single production?
Also, China seems to have been obliterated in their version of the world:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F2%2F25%2FStrikeWitchesWorldMap.JPG&hash=c8caf720353b1b71af1da9f862e5920bddc4602a)
That's an early map, one that I actually wish they still used.
The creators appear to have had second thoughts about exactly how much damage the Neuroi have done to Earth's continents over the years.
See this thread for the map at the top, and about half-way down for the screenshot from the series that confirms that the new map is, at the least, canon for the continents.
http://www.helma.us/sw/res/2188.html
[Yes, I quite like Strike Witches myself; there's a damn good story and setting underneath the fan-service, Unfortunately the fan-service itself does reach genuinely obnoxious levels for a western audience.]
Quote from: Agelastus on February 11, 2014, 01:12:40 PM
[Yes, I quite like Strike Witches myself; there's a damn good story and setting underneath the fan-service, Unfortunately the fan-service itself does reach genuinely obnoxious levels for a western audience.]
For being so liberated...why do we hate gratuitous T&A so much in the West. :(
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 11, 2014, 01:19:18 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on February 11, 2014, 01:12:40 PM
[Yes, I quite like Strike Witches myself; there's a damn good story and setting underneath the fan-service, Unfortunately the fan-service itself does reach genuinely obnoxious levels for a western audience.]
For being so liberated...why do we hate gratuitous T&A so much in the West. :(
In Japan and East Asia, anime is for all ages. I get the feeling that many consider anime to be kids only in the west, and kids aren't supposed to see half naked girls.
One genuine problem with Strike Witches is that many of the heroines are underage (which is normal for an anime). The youngest one is 12 if I remember correctly. The majority of them also showed their nipples. So it can easily be construed as child pornography. But really, the context is important. There are practically no male characters, and all the nudity is shown in the context of playful female friendship.
Actually I think the relative downfall of anime in the West (and the reason we don't see so much of the stuff getting a proper release here) is that it's no longer considered for kids and the market for adult/young adult animation is very small.
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 07:13:55 PM
Actually I think the relative downfall of anime in the West (and the reason we don't see so much of the stuff getting a proper release here) is that it's no longer considered for kids and the market for adult/young adult animation is very small.
This is another thing that puzzles me. Why do people need "a proper release" in the broadband and fiber optics internet age? Most of the anime that I've seen have never been "properly released" in HK/China. I see lots of fan subtitle groups doing English subtitles for anime shows. There are so many competiting Chinese subtitle groups that do the translation for free, that I generally can see an anime episode fully subtitled about 4-12 hours after it has been aired in Japan.
I can understand if some people insist in seeing a show dubbed in English or whatever language they prefer. I myself never went back to dubbed shows ever since I heard the original Japanese voice performance.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:21:33 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 07:13:55 PM
Actually I think the relative downfall of anime in the West (and the reason we don't see so much of the stuff getting a proper release here) is that it's no longer considered for kids and the market for adult/young adult animation is very small.
This is another thing that puzzles me. Why do people need "a proper release" in the broadband and fiber optics internet age? Most of the anime that I've seen have never been "properly released" in HK/China. I see lots of fan subtitle groups doing English subtitles for anime shows. There are so many competiting Chinese subtitle groups that do the translation for free, that I generally can see an anime episode fully subtitled about 4-12 hours after it has been aired in Japan.
I can understand if some people insist in seeing a show dubbed in English or whatever language they prefer. I myself never went back to dubbed shows ever since I heard the original Japanese voice performance.
"Proper release" = not having to resort to torrents.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:03:20 PM
One genuine problem with Strike Witches is that many of the heroines are underage (which is normal for an anime). The youngest one is 12 if I remember correctly. The majority of them also showed their nipples. So it can easily be construed as child pornography. But really, the context is important. There are practically no male characters, and all the nudity is shown in the context of playful female friendship.
I'm confused. You spoke earlier about fanservice but then are now saying it is just playful female friendship - so there's no issue with animating characters who are supposed to be young?
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:03:20 PMThere are practically no male characters, and all the nudity is shown in the context of playful female friendship.
:hmm:
Quote from: garbon on February 11, 2014, 07:39:48 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:03:20 PM
One genuine problem with Strike Witches is that many of the heroines are underage (which is normal for an anime). The youngest one is 12 if I remember correctly. The majority of them also showed their nipples. So it can easily be construed as child pornography. But really, the context is important. There are practically no male characters, and all the nudity is shown in the context of playful female friendship.
I'm confused. You spoke earlier about fanservice but then are now saying it is just playful female friendship - so there's no issue with animating characters who are supposed to be young?
I don't get the confusion, probably because I am used to it. Fanservice is a very wide term that covers not just nudity, but showing scenes and shots of females (even males) wearing skimpy clothing or in...compromised positions for no plot related reason. The context can be anything, including playful female friendship. Strike Witches goes a bit further than most non-hentai anime shows by actually showing half-naked girls. Even so, the context is not obnoxious. Whether it is ok to animate young characters depends on individual taste obviously.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 11, 2014, 07:41:07 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:03:20 PMThere are practically no male characters, and all the nudity is shown in the context of playful female friendship.
:hmm:
Part of the implications of Tokyo hosting the Olympics in 2020 is that they need to clean up. I've seen giant wall posters showing young teenagers in very skimpy clothng out in the open streets in Tokyo. That's considered ok there, but they know full well that many tourists will be uncomfortable seeing what they consider as child pornography.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 11, 2014, 07:41:07 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:03:20 PMThere are practically no male characters, and all the nudity is shown in the context of playful female friendship.
:hmm:
:D
It looks like they dropped Antarctica on top of China and they both sunk.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:21:33 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 07:13:55 PM
Actually I think the relative downfall of anime in the West (and the reason we don't see so much of the stuff getting a proper release here) is that it's no longer considered for kids and the market for adult/young adult animation is very small.
This is another thing that puzzles me. Why do people need "a proper release" in the broadband and fiber optics internet age? Most of the anime that I've seen have never been "properly released" in HK/China. I see lots of fan subtitle groups doing English subtitles for anime shows. There are so many competiting Chinese subtitle groups that do the translation for free, that I generally can see an anime episode fully subtitled about 4-12 hours after it has been aired in Japan.
I can understand if some people insist in seeing a show dubbed in English or whatever language they prefer. I myself never went back to dubbed shows ever since I heard the original Japanese voice performance.
That are a lot of free fansub groups in America that do the same.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:49:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 11, 2014, 07:39:48 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:03:20 PM
One genuine problem with Strike Witches is that many of the heroines are underage (which is normal for an anime). The youngest one is 12 if I remember correctly. The majority of them also showed their nipples. So it can easily be construed as child pornography. But really, the context is important. There are practically no male characters, and all the nudity is shown in the context of playful female friendship.
I'm confused. You spoke earlier about fanservice but then are now saying it is just playful female friendship - so there's no issue with animating characters who are supposed to be young?
I don't get the confusion, probably because I am used to it. Fanservice is a very wide term that covers not just nudity, but showing scenes and shots of females (even males) wearing skimpy clothing or in...compromised positions for no plot related reason. The context can be anything, including playful female friendship. Strike Witches goes a bit further than most non-hentai anime shows by actually showing half-naked girls. Even so, the context is not obnoxious. Whether it is ok to animate young characters depends on individual taste obviously.
The disconnect is that you say it is okay as in context it is not sexual even though those watching it enjoy it as the nudity appeals sexually.
That is of course, then ignoring the bit that Sheilbh is scratching at and just taking "playful female friendship" on its face.
I'm sure I'd hate it. Shows without male characters are difficult for me to get into.
Quote from: Neil on February 11, 2014, 08:16:16 PM
I'm sure I'd hate it. Shows without male characters are difficult for me to get into.
You seem to hate a lot of things. You should work on that.
Lately I've started struggling with shows without Timothy Olyphant :(
Quote from: garbon on February 11, 2014, 08:17:47 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 11, 2014, 08:16:16 PM
I'm sure I'd hate it. Shows without male characters are difficult for me to get into.
You seem to hate a lot of things. You should work on that.
I really don't hate very many things at all.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 11, 2014, 08:17:57 PM
Lately I've started struggling with shows without Timothy Olyphant :(
I miss Deadwood.
Quote from: grumbler on February 11, 2014, 10:21:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 08:03:08 AM
Sorry Grumbler. I give you a reply or two out of common decency applying to all but I don't like the arguing for arguings sake game.
That's okay. You had stopped making actual arguments several exchanges ago, anyway; as you say, you were just arguing for arguments' sake.
We can just agree to agree that I am correct. :D
:lol:
The day that is true it'll be snow in Cairo.
You need an opinion before you can even begin to be right. :contract:
Quote from: garbon on February 11, 2014, 08:13:37 PM
The disconnect is that you say it is okay as in context it is not sexual even though those watching it enjoy it as the nudity appeals sexually.
That is of course, then ignoring the bit that Sheilbh is scratching at and just taking "playful female friendship" on its face.
Ok I see that you guys are thinking of the yuri subtext (yuri is Japanese euphemism for lesbian relationships). Yuri...takes place in a surprisingly large number of anime adaptations. I don't know why but anime fans seem to see yuri subtext everywhere, they like it, and the anime production companies take advantage of that by inserting such subtext everywhere.
Being an all-female show, Strike Witches does have quite a bit of yuri in it.
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 08:48:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 11, 2014, 10:21:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 08:03:08 AM
Sorry Grumbler. I give you a reply or two out of common decency applying to all but I don't like the arguing for arguings sake game.
That's okay. You had stopped making actual arguments several exchanges ago, anyway; as you say, you were just arguing for arguments' sake.
We can just agree to agree that I am correct. :D
:lol:
The day that is true it'll be snow in Cairo.
You need an opinion before you can even begin to be right. :contract:
It snowed in Cairo earlier this winter. :sleep:
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 11, 2014, 09:07:01 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 08:48:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 11, 2014, 10:21:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 08:03:08 AM
Sorry Grumbler. I give you a reply or two out of common decency applying to all but I don't like the arguing for arguings sake game.
That's okay. You had stopped making actual arguments several exchanges ago, anyway; as you say, you were just arguing for arguments' sake.
We can just agree to agree that I am correct. :D
:lol:
The day that is true it'll be snow in Cairo.
You need an opinion before you can even begin to be right. :contract:
It snowed in Cairo earlier this winter. :sleep:
But was "it" being snow?
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:03:20 PM
and all the nudity is shown in the context of playful female friendship.
Yeah; over here, we call that F/F.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 11, 2014, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:03:20 PM
and all the nudity is shown in the context of playful female friendship.
Yeah; over here, we call that F/F.
Yuri is very odd in anime, I think. It is everywhere, but also no where. Anime watchers, both male and female, enjoy the yuri subtext and potential pairings. So people see yuri subtext whenever there are two female characters involved. 99% of the yuri relationships depicted in anime are non-sexual in nature. They are usually a bit subtle about it so that there is always deniability - they can always say it is just very close friendship instead of yuri. The yuri in Strike Witches is quite typical in anime - the nudity is played for laughs and humour, and the mutual care and fire-forged friends aspects are emphasised in the personal relationships.
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 04:26:40 AM...is politicians/far right groups connections with the yakuza.
Did you follow the story about the Japanese Miss World (Universe? One of those) who got blacklisted by the Yakuza controlled entertainment business and media (i.e. most of it)? And apparently she enlisted Mrs. Abe to help her?
Quote from: Neil on February 11, 2014, 09:05:44 AM
Wait, Tyr thinks it's inappropriate for Britons to fondly remember the empire? All of the sudden that throws everything he's been saying into doubt.
As if you didn't doubt everything he said before.
Quote from: Jacob on February 11, 2014, 11:58:03 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 11, 2014, 09:05:44 AM
Wait, Tyr thinks it's inappropriate for Britons to fondly remember the empire? All of the sudden that throws everything he's been saying into doubt.
As if you didn't doubt everything he said before.
I'm willing to accept his pro-Japanese beliefs. Jos can be silly and ignorant, but he's on the right side of the Japan/China issue, and that's enough.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 11, 2014, 07:03:20 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 11, 2014, 01:19:18 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on February 11, 2014, 01:12:40 PM
[Yes, I quite like Strike Witches myself; there's a damn good story and setting underneath the fan-service, Unfortunately the fan-service itself does reach genuinely obnoxious levels for a western audience.]
For being so liberated...why do we hate gratuitous T&A so much in the West. :(
In Japan and East Asia, anime is for all ages. I get the feeling that many consider anime to be kids only in the west, and kids aren't supposed to see half naked girls.
One genuine problem with Strike Witches is that many of the heroines are underage (which is normal for an anime). The youngest one is 12 if I remember correctly. The majority of them also showed their nipples. So it can easily be construed as child pornography. But really, the context is important. There are practically no male characters, and all the nudity is shown in the context of playful female friendship.
It's Francesca in particular that caused me to describe the fanservice levels as "obnoxious"; it's not just her age but the way she acts as well.
As I said, I enjoy and like Strike Witches. I also tend not to mind fan-service (my current favourite Manga is To-Love Ru, after all.) But in this case I do find some of the scenes uncomfortable to watch. And yet it's had a proper UK release, and a quick search of the internet doesn't find any obvious stories about cuts or edits (season 1 even being confirmed as "uncut".) Which implies that the BBFC is less prudish than me. :hmm:
QuoteAs I said, I enjoy and like Strike Witches. I also tend not to mind fan-service (my current favourite Manga is To-Love Ru, after all.)
:thumbsup:
QuoteDid you follow the story about the Japanese Miss World (Universe? One of those) who got blacklisted by the Yakuza controlled entertainment business and media (i.e. most of it)? And apparently she enlisted Mrs. Abe to help her?
I didn't. Sounds interesting though.
QuoteIf a politician say he believes X, then appoints other people to positions of authority that believe X, who then go on to spread propaganda favoring that view to the nation via public broadcasting, then it's fair to suspect that perhaps that politician really does hold that view close to his heart.
He has to prove his credentials somehow. He can make a bold foreign policy move or he can appoint an idiot to a plum position in NHK. Or it could be that they're both just playing the same game. Or it could be he actually does believe that stuff. Don't just assume the last one is definitely the right one.
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 11, 2014, 09:07:01 PM
It snowed in Cairo earlier this winter. :sleep:
Hey, he can be right once or twice a decade surely. :p
Quote from: Agelastus on February 12, 2014, 04:21:03 AM
It's Francesca in particular that caused me to describe the fanservice levels as "obnoxious"; it's not just her age but the way she acts as well.
As I said, I enjoy and like Strike Witches. I also tend not to mind fan-service (my current favourite Manga is To-Love Ru, after all.) But in this case I do find some of the scenes uncomfortable to watch. And yet it's had a proper UK release, and a quick search of the internet doesn't find any obvious stories about cuts or edits (season 1 even being confirmed as "uncut".) Which implies that the BBFC is less prudish than me. :hmm:
Yes, the fanservice level in Strike Witches is very high, even by anime standards. But personally I am ok with them, even the bath scenes. As I said, the atmosphere is playful, friendly and comedic in an all-female cast. I also note that all the nudity takes place in the communal baths, if I remember correctly. I am no Japanese, but my impression is that baths have a special place in Japanese culture. I feel it is their way to tell us that the friendships among the cast have progressed to a point where they feel comfortable playing together in the baths.
Note your point about Francesca (for those who don't know, she is the 12 year old). It is good that they have the sense to make it so that she is the one...taking action, rather than the other way round.
While we are on the topic, the scenes that I really have trouble watching is Nanoha the original series. Elfen Lied is another matter because I know what to expect. The scenes in Nanoha just come out of nowhere in an otherwise straightforward magical girl show.
Strike Witches is old and busted. The point of interest is Kantai Collection now.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages6.alphacoders.com%2F468%2F468476.jpg&hash=f374aed5d34d9955f7d445d0d2496c0ff6e39b1a)
:blink:
Since Strike Witches is about moe girls drawn to look like fighters (and is a smash hit), it is only natural for someone to do an amine with moe girls based on warships.
And yes, I do plan on watching it :P
:wacko:
Mono: victim of the NHK?
Quote from: Ideologue on February 12, 2014, 06:20:20 AM
Mono: victim of the NHK?
I know next to nothing about Kantai Collection besides these screenshots. I agree that they look...odd. I am just following the "if it is popular, it is probably going to be good" rule. I do notice a lot of reports about this in recent months. Not sure exactly when the anime will air.
I still need to finish watching Girls & Panzer.
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2014, 08:48:40 PM
You need an opinion before you can even begin to be right. :contract:
Well, at least you
finally figured that out! :thumbsup:
So, work on becoming able to express an opinion as your first priority. You've never shown the ability to be right, but that's not even an issue until you can form an opinion.
Good luck with that. Feel free to try out your proto-opinions here.
Can't wait for the screenie of the girl playing the Yamato.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20131126235052%2Fkancolle%2Fimages%2F2%2F29%2F136_2.png&hash=de2342c1093dbad6619d7e8385e8443b08723710)http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131126235052/kancolle/images/2/29/136_2.png
There's no reason to think you have to wait. While it is true an anime is coming, Kantai Collection is already a very successful game with a wide degree of merchandise. I have a nice decal of the Atago on my laptop.
Lettow, anything else you think is worth watching? I plan to watch these for the Spring 2014 season:
Akuma no Riddle
Black Bullet
Fairy Tail
One Piece
Kiwaguro No Brynhildr
Mekaku City Actors
Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei
I prefer my animes to be a bit more "grounded" - hence my preference for things like Legend of Galactic Heroes (or "Heldensagen vom Kosmosinsel" :P ) or Ergo Proxy. I don't mind whackier stuff now and then, but it's not my prime fare.
Our taste has got to be pretty different, Mono, but Jojo has huge crossover appeal with how great it was. If you haven't seen the first season yet, you ought to; I'm looking forward to the second.
KyoAni hasn't announced what they'll be putting out this season; it'll be gobbled up by the usual suspects no matter what it is. Mekaku City Actors reminds me a lot of Sasami-san@ganbaranai, and that was a disaster.
The new Mushishi content, in whatever form it takes, will be great. Overall, there's not much I can see that I am excited about. This season is uncharacteristically light on fluffy plots of cute girls doing cute things without much in the way of direction or storytelling.
Syt: Logh is amazing, but you lost me at ergo proxy as an example of a grounded work
Ergo Proxy is pretentious as fuck, but it largely dispenses with a lot of over the top tropes and most of the kawaii department.
Quote from: Lettow77 on February 12, 2014, 08:00:15 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20131126235052%2Fkancolle%2Fimages%2F2%2F29%2F136_2.png&hash=de2342c1093dbad6619d7e8385e8443b08723710)http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131126235052/kancolle/images/2/29/136_2.png
There's no reason to think you have to wait. While it is true an anime is coming, Kantai Collection is already a very successful game with a wide degree of merchandise. I have a nice decal of the Atago on my laptop.
Can't wait and see the Pacific Fleet try to sink those b*****s. Or are the baddies some aliens or whatever?
To be honest, I have been very disconnected from anime for the past... 10-15 years? TV stations and DVD distributors over here progressively stopped releasing it, and pretty much stuck to more kiddie fare. What should I really really try to watch? I concur on liking the more grounded stuff.
Do we have an anime thread?
Quote from: Lettow77 on February 12, 2014, 05:46:17 AM
Strike Witches is old and busted. The point of interest is Kantai Collection now.
Wait a minute... Are those girls warships?
Every Japanese ship of note in the war has a personification. To a greater extent than one would think possible, their personalities are informed by and reflect the ship in question. (The Kongo was built in Britain, and this manifests itself in gratuitous english and a love for tea time.)
I find it a bit bizarre that a country of old people worships youth to the extent the Japanese do. If they love young people so much why don't they have any? Or maybe they love idealized fetishized youth and actual young people not so much...I guess I can see that. Get off our lawns, we have anime to watch.
Quote from: Tyr on February 12, 2014, 04:23:15 AM
QuoteIf a politician say he believes X, then appoints other people to positions of authority that believe X, who then go on to spread propaganda favoring that view to the nation via public broadcasting, then it's fair to suspect that perhaps that politician really does hold that view close to his heart.
He has to prove his credentials somehow. He can make a bold foreign policy move or he can appoint an idiot to a plum position in NHK. Or it could be that they're both just playing the same game. Or it could be he actually does believe that stuff. Don't just assume the last one is definitely the right one.
At some point, I guess it doesn't really matter if he believes it or not.
If all his practical actions are to do things that he would do if he did in fact believe it, and those actions have real and actual policy implications (like appointing someone who beleives this bullshit to a position where that belief actually matters to the job), then it doesn't actually make any difference whether he believes it or not.
He might be a double super secret Ghandi, but that makes little difference if he is forced to act like a douchebag all the time anyway.
Quote from: celedhring on February 12, 2014, 08:49:04 AM
Can't wait and see the Pacific Fleet try to sink those b*****s. Or are the baddies some aliens or whatever?
To be honest, I have been very disconnected from anime for the past... 10-15 years? TV stations and DVD distributors over here progressively stopped releasing it, and pretty much stuck to more kiddie fare. What should I really really try to watch? I concur on liking the more grounded stuff.
Do we have an anime thread?
This is our anime thread. Or you can start one.
My favourite anime is Madoka Magica. It is a serious show, despite its name implying it to be a fluffy magical girl show. One suggestion: avoid all spoilers. That means no wikis, no reviews, no screenshots. A large no. of screenshots contain massive spoilers. Just go watch it. It is only 12 episodes plus one film. There are good reasons why this is one of the most well-known and beloved franchises right now.
There are 3 films, but the first two are summaries of the TV series. If you have not yet been spoiled, I suggest watching the TV series, as the movies assume that you've already watched the TV series and contain a spoiler opening. Film 3 is a true sequel. The BD will be out on 2 April 2014.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 09:49:12 AM
This is our anime thread. Or you can start one.
Actually we have one.
http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,6939.msg373122.html#msg373122
Also, all this thread has taught me so far is that it is proper to judge anime fans. -_-
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 10:01:42 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 09:49:12 AM
This is our anime thread. Or you can start one.
Actually we have one.
http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,6939.msg373122.html#msg373122
Also, all this thread has taught me so far is that it is proper to judge anime fans. -_-
Huh. I participated in it too :blush:
Judge all you want. I just want recommendations on good anime :P
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 10:19:50 AM
I just want recommendations on good anime :P
Dead anime. The only kind.
http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/7544334.html
Hey Syt, there is going to be a new LoGH show. Not sure if it is another gaiden or a remake of the classic.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 09:49:12 AM
My favourite anime is Madoka Magica. It is a serious show, despite its name implying it to be a fluffy magical girl show. One suggestion: avoid all spoilers. That means no wikis, no reviews, no screenshots. A large no. of screenshots contain massive spoilers. Just go watch it. It is only 12 episodes plus one film. There are good reasons why this is one of the most well-known and beloved franchises right now.
I think the only thing I've agreed with about anime in this thread. Madoka Magica is fantastic.
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 10:01:42 AM
Also, all this thread has taught me so far is that it is proper to judge anime fans. -_-
One does get the impression, hopefully mistaken, that most of these shows basically appeal to pervs. :lol:
I mean, naked 12 year olds? And it's okay because she's the sexually aggressive one? No. Just ... no.
Freud would have had a field day with sunken Japanese battleships personified by sexy schoolgirls.
Quote from: Malthus on February 12, 2014, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 10:01:42 AM
Also, all this thread has taught me so far is that it is proper to judge anime fans. -_-
One does get the impression, hopefully mistaken, that most of these shows basically appeal to pervs. :lol:
I mean, naked 12 year olds? And it's okay because she's the sexually aggressive one? No. Just ... no.
Freud would have had a field day with sunken Japanese battleships personified by sexy schoolgirls.
Indeed to all of the above.
There's a lot anime that is much more serious and not like that at all.
Fortunately.
Quote from: Lettow77 on February 12, 2014, 09:14:11 AM
Every Japanese ship of note in the war has a personification. To a greater extent than one would think possible, their personalities are informed by and reflect the ship in question. (The Kongo was built in Britain, and this manifests itself in gratuitous english and a love for tea time.)
Well, I'm sold. Are there any male characters?
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 07:13:55 PM
Actually I think the relative downfall of anime in the West (and the reason we don't see so much of the stuff getting a proper release here) is that it's no longer considered for kids and the market for adult/young adult animation is very small.
Actually, Cartoon Network's Adult Swim has been so successful that Fox has created a similar set of late-night programming. The model is a bit different, though, in that individual episodes tend to be short (~15 minutes). Marketplace on NPR recently discussed this trend.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on February 12, 2014, 11:44:21 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 07:13:55 PM
Actually I think the relative downfall of anime in the West (and the reason we don't see so much of the stuff getting a proper release here) is that it's no longer considered for kids and the market for adult/young adult animation is very small.
Actually, Cartoon Network's Adult Swim has been so successful that Fox has created a similar set of late-night programming. The model is a bit different, though, in that individual episodes tend to be short (~15 minutes). Marketplace on NPR recently discussed this trend.
That's locally produced stuff though. And all of it very ironic/self-referential based on your local culture. It's going to have an easier time than Japanese warship-girls.
Mind, I would love for more stuff to get to the West like it used to 15-20 years ago.
I, for one, am just fine with warship girls. Or warship boys, warship dogs, warship cats, warship camels or just about anything as relates to warships.
Isn't manga popular? At least most remaining bookstore chains have been excited about it.
On the anime front, I'd suggest a connection to pervdom is probably another big issue. Particularly that nude under age girls bit...
Quote from: Neil on February 12, 2014, 12:19:14 PM
I, for one, am just fine with warship girls. Or warship boys, warship dogs, warship cats, warship camels or just about anything as relates to warships.
Gay warships?
Quote from: Malthus on February 12, 2014, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 10:01:42 AM
Also, all this thread has taught me so far is that it is proper to judge anime fans. -_-
One does get the impression, hopefully mistaken, that most of these shows basically appeal to pervs. :lol:
I mean, naked 12 year olds? And it's okay because she's the sexually aggressive one? No. Just ... no.
Freud would have had a field day with sunken Japanese battleships personified by sexy schoolgirls.
Or all the ones with the one normal guy who is irresistibly attractive to every girl he meets. There are a lot of lonely people in Japan, for that sort of thing to be such a trope.
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 12, 2014, 12:19:14 PM
I, for one, am just fine with warship girls. Or warship boys, warship dogs, warship cats, warship camels or just about anything as relates to warships.
Gay warships?
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the lash!"
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 12, 2014, 12:19:14 PM
I, for one, am just fine with warship girls. Or warship boys, warship dogs, warship cats, warship camels or just about anything as relates to warships.
Gay warships?
So long as they can behave in a tolerable manner, I can deal with that. Although gay warships would be the least preferable type.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 10:19:50 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 10:01:42 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 09:49:12 AM
This is our anime thread. Or you can start one.
Actually we have one.
http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,6939.msg373122.html#msg373122
Also, all this thread has taught me so far is that it is proper to judge anime fans. -_-
Huh. I participated in it too :blush:
Judge all you want. I just want recommendations on good anime :P
Current seasons or stuff that's old enough to have been officially "released"...?
Anyway, for the last couple of seasons I'd say the ones I've enjoyed/am enjoying the most have been -
"Log Horizon"
"Strike the Blood"
"Toaru Hikuushi e no Koiuta"
and, surprisingly, "Buddy Complex".
I've got a feeling there was some controversy in Asia about "Outbreak Company", and "Yuusha ni Narenakatta Ore wa Shibushibu Shuushoku wo Ketsui Shimashita" (AKA Yuushibu) seems to be a love it or hate it series with no middle ground. I'd still recommend them both though.
As for most disappointing show of recent seasons I'd have to go with the adaptation of "Arpeggio of Blue Steel"; they dumbed down or simply dropped huge chunks of the plot, the characters (those that weren't left out) and then went off on a wild tangent to come up with an ending that's actually past the point the Manga is currently at despite leaving out a large number of chapters and only having a 12 episode series. :(
Quote from: Agelastus on February 12, 2014, 02:38:12 PM
I've got a feeling there was some controversy in Asia about "Outbreak Company",
LOL no shit. I got 731 problems...
You know what I liked? Death Note. Most shows with that premise would've wallowed in morality, instead of opting to just be perhaps the most manic thriller ever put together.
Quote from: The Brain on February 12, 2014, 02:41:03 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on February 12, 2014, 02:38:12 PM
I've got a feeling there was some controversy in Asia about "Outbreak Company",
LOL no shit. I got 731 problems...
Predictable. :sigh:
Did you even bother looking up what the series was about before posting?
Quote from: Agelastus on February 12, 2014, 03:05:02 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 12, 2014, 02:41:03 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on February 12, 2014, 02:38:12 PM
I've got a feeling there was some controversy in Asia about "Outbreak Company",
LOL no shit. I got 731 problems...
Predictable. :sigh:
Did you even bother looking up what the series was about before posting?
Heeeeeeell no! :x
Why do the anime chicks all looks the same?
Quote from: Razgovory on February 12, 2014, 04:59:00 PM
Why do the anime chicks all looks the same?
The detail/cost ratio.
---------------------
Anyway, pulled this off of Sankaku Complex*. It seemed relevant to the context of the thread,
QuoteThe Chinese government has expressed its outrage at a Japanese town's efforts to get its collection of kamikaze pilot memorabilia granted UNESCO recognition.
The city of Minami Kyushu, in southern Kyushu of all places, has applied for UNESCO recognition of its morbid collection of last wills and farewell letters from kamikaze pilots who gloriously flew themselves into various American ships and patches of ocean.
It hosted an airbase which sent hundreds of the pilots flying at US targets as they went about the final destruction of Japan's empire, and UNESCO world heritage status for the collection would "highlight the importance of world peace" (as well as quite possibly make them into a minor tourist attraction).
China is appalled at the prospect, with their foreign ministry lambasting their application quite thoroughly:
"The design behind the so-called application for the kamikaze pilots is very clear, which is to try and beautify the Japanese militarist history of invasion."
"This intention is diametrically opposed to UNESCO's objective of maintaining world peace, and must be strongly condemned and resolutely opposed by the international community."
PM Abe's insistence on visiting Yasukuni, modest increases to defence spending and efforts to appoint historical revisionists who maintain Japan's wartime conduct was beyond reproach to every public body in his power have all conspired to grievously annoy China recently – although outwardly their conduct towards the previous DPJ government so keen to kowtow to them seems to have been little different.
The government of the US meanwhile, although quick to castigate Abe for visiting Yasukuni, have so far not bothered to comment on the crazed actions of a metropolis with as many as 37,000 inhabitants.
This is the Reuters article that was linked in the above - http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/10/us-china-japan-idUSBREA190AX20140210
What does Languish think?
Personally, I agree that the letters are unique and important historical documents; I'm undecided as to whether or not they deserve "World Heritage" Status.
*Not linked due to site being NSFW in many respects.
Quote from: Malthus on February 12, 2014, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 10:01:42 AM
Also, all this thread has taught me so far is that it is proper to judge anime fans. -_-
One does get the impression, hopefully mistaken, that most of these shows basically appeal to pervs. :lol:
I mean, naked 12 year olds? And it's okay because she's the sexually aggressive one? No. Just ... no.
Freud would have had a field day with sunken Japanese battleships personified by sexy schoolgirls.
That's like getting impression that all book readers are pervs because some books portray child porn :P Anime is just a medium. It can depict anything, from serious shows to harem shows.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 12, 2014, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 10:01:42 AM
Also, all this thread has taught me so far is that it is proper to judge anime fans. -_-
One does get the impression, hopefully mistaken, that most of these shows basically appeal to pervs. :lol:
I mean, naked 12 year olds? And it's okay because she's the sexually aggressive one? No. Just ... no.
Freud would have had a field day with sunken Japanese battleships personified by sexy schoolgirls.
That's like getting impression that all book readers are pervs because some books portray child porn :P Anime is just a medium. It can depict anything, from serious shows to harem shows.
I'm just going by what's in this thread. :P
Clearly, it is arguable that 'anime is all about the pervs' is an unfair stereotype ... but the contents of this thread, in particular how this favorite show contains sexualized scenes with 12 year old girls, is not disabusing me of that stereotype.
I don't mind. Shove the tentacles in harder.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 12, 2014, 04:59:00 PM
Why do the anime chicks all looks the same?
Check out the "Flowers of Evil". They tried a more realistic look. Sparked some controversy.
As for anime characters all looking the same, I myself have this impression too. Some anime are better than others in this department. The differences are mainly in hair style/colour, eye colour/shape, and clothing.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 06:09:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 12, 2014, 04:59:00 PM
Why do the anime chicks all looks the same?
Check out the "Flowers of Evil". They tried a more realistic look. Sparked some controversy.
As for anime characters all looking the same, I myself have this impression too. Some anime are better than others in this department. The differences are mainly in hair style/colour, eye colour/shape, and clothing.
Well I compare it to US animation. There are a lot of styles in US animation. The
Simpsons looks different then
The Little Mermaid which is different than Bugs Bunny cartoons. Japanese anime seems to have a much smaller range of styles, so in my eyes it looks derivative and stagnant.
Quote from: Malthus on February 12, 2014, 06:07:27 PM
I'm just going by what's in this thread. :P
Clearly, it is arguable that 'anime is all about the pervs' is an unfair stereotype ... but the contents of this thread, in particular how this favorite show contains sexualized scenes with 12 year old girls, is not disabusing me of that stereotype.
Not going to argue with you about the 12 year old thing. I hope they didn't include those scenes in an otherwise excellent anime. I am willing to overlook the, what, 0.1% of the scenes that are problematic. I understand why some people, especially westerners, can't. Apparently it is not a problem in Japan, as Strike Witches has a large following.
Just trying to make wearing nothing but panties common at cosplay conventions. Could be good I suppose. :P
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 12, 2014, 06:45:17 PM
Just trying to make wearing nothing but panties common at cosplay conventions. Could be good I suppose. :P
I wonder what the ratio of hotties to not so hotties are at those things.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 12, 2014, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 12, 2014, 06:45:17 PM
Just trying to make wearing nothing but panties common at cosplay conventions. Could be good I suppose. :P
I wonder what the ratio of hotties to not so hotties are at those things.
It's probably not great. But I do suspect wearing a sexy outfit would have a sort of self-selecting aspect to it. I mean, you wouldn't be brave enough to do it unless you thought you were attractive enough for it.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 12, 2014, 06:14:52 PM
Well I compare it to US animation. There are a lot of styles in US animation. The Simpsons looks different then The Little Mermaid which is different than Bugs Bunny cartoons. Japanese anime seems to have a much smaller range of styles, so in my eyes it looks derivative and stagnant.
I can only talk about Japanese animation, but there are a huge number of different styles within the genre. One of the appeals of Madoka Magica is that it is produced by Shaft Studio and directed by accalimed director Shinbo, with their distinctive style (look up "Shaft head tilt" for an example). Compare with, say, Dragonball, Spirited Away, Neon Genesis Evangelion or Legend of Galactic Heroes. They all have very different and distinctive styles.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 12, 2014, 06:45:17 PM
Just trying to make wearing nothing but panties common at cosplay conventions. Could be good I suppose. :P
Cosplay is huge here. I've seen whole buiildings in Tokyo dedicated to cosplaying. The more I watch, the more I realise that it isn't just about picking a pretty girl and putting her into a correct costume. It is about acting the part. It is easy to pick a girl with long dark hair and give her a magical girl costume. It is hard to make her look sad and mysterious at the same time.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 07:38:24 PM
They all have very different and distinctive styles.
They all seem to have identical styles of drawing girls.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 12, 2014, 07:44:09 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 07:38:24 PM
They all have very different and distinctive styles.
They all seem to have identical styles of drawing girls.
You'll have a hard time convincing me that Miki Sayaka from Madoka Magica shares the same art style as Annerose in Legend of Galactic Heroes.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.postimg.org%2F5qrfdm70b%2FMiki_Sayaka.jpg&hash=03b061246c789703a0f91a25a9cc7d4fec31ddce) (http://postimg.org/image/5qrfdm70b/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs12.postimg.org%2F5ve1xq53d%2FAnnerose.jpg&hash=4c197dfca31d125eaba4dfe2371e68fc533742de) (http://postimg.org/image/5ve1xq53d/)
I'll just use my Jedi mind tricks.
The first girl is what we think of as "anime".
I think evolution through time has a lot to say in this too. Annerose reminds me a lot of the anime I used the watch as a kid, like Harlock Saga or Saint Seiya. While the other girl is what I associate with contemporary anime look.
I agree that there's a lot more variety to anime than people think, but there's a vast representation of the "moe look" (or whatever it is called, I'm a goyim here) of big eyed women-girls with colored hair.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 12, 2014, 07:51:25 PM
The first girl is what we think of as "anime".
This is a fairly generic anime girl
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs4.postimg.org%2Fu8s7b1p3d%2FAnime_girl.jpg&hash=3a3ce1711d69bfdcf13cf9a0900d905ecbdb032a) (http://postimg.org/image/u8s7b1p3d/)
Madoka Magica is known to have a fairly distinctive style known as Puni Plush, with wide, cute faces that are uncommon in anime.
Quote from: celedhring on February 12, 2014, 07:59:00 PM
I think evolution through time has a lot to say in this too. Annerose reminds me a lot of the anime I used the watch as a kid, like Harlock Saga or Saint Seiya. While the other girl is what I associate with contemporary anime look.
I agree that there's a lot more variety to anime than people think, but there's a vast representation of the "moe look" (or whatever it is called, I'm a goyim here) of big eyed women-girls with colored hair.
Also because Legend of Galactic Heroes is a serious anime from the start. Madoka Magica wants you to think it is a cutsy magical girl show :menace:
Speaking of magical girl shows, Magical Emi was one of my favorite animes when I was like, 10. :blush:
Quote from: celedhring on February 12, 2014, 08:06:31 PM
Magical Emi was one of my favorite animes when I was like, 10. :blush:
Queen Millennia for me when I was a kid.
BTW, Live Evil, a fansub group, is doing English subtitles for Magical Emi if you are interested.
I'm not sure I want to revisit that part of my life :blush:
Loved Queen Millennia too, aired in the same network. Emi at lunch time, Queen Millennia after school. And then there was Robotech, which I'm aware it was a mongrel of different anime series but it was just amazing. Give a 10 year old planes that turn into freakin' robots with lazer guns = win.
Quote from: celedhring on February 12, 2014, 08:17:42 PM
I'm not sure I want to revisit that part of my life :blush:
Loved Queen Millennia too, aired in the same network. Emi at lunch time, Queen Millennia after school. And then there was Robotech, which I'm aware it was a mongrel of different anime series but it was just amazing. Give a 10 year old planes that turn into freakin' robots with lazer guns = win.
For the more recent stuff, I like Attack of Titans (hard hitting, serious, mature action show), Sword Art Online (trapped in a game world, Yuki Kajiura music), AnoHana (cry a river), Steins Gate (time travel), Fate Zero (gorgeous animation by UFO Table, Gen "Urobucher" Urobuchi script, Yuki Kajiura music, set in the Fate universe), Angel Beats (cry two rivers plus Key), Rebuild of Neon Genesis Evangelion (nightmare fuel, remake of a classic, animation that puts everything else to shame, mindscrew).
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 07:59:42 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 12, 2014, 07:51:25 PM
The first girl is what we think of as "anime".
This is a fairly generic anime girl
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs4.postimg.org%2Fu8s7b1p3d%2FAnime_girl.jpg&hash=3a3ce1711d69bfdcf13cf9a0900d905ecbdb032a) (http://postimg.org/image/u8s7b1p3d/)
Madoka Magica is known to have a fairly distinctive style known as Puni Plush, with wide, cute faces that are uncommon in anime.
That pic looks like the Madoka girl. /shrug
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 12, 2014, 08:44:55 PM
That pic looks like the Madoka girl. /shrug
It is hard to find a Madoka pic without spoilers. Here is Tomoe Mami from the same show. I hope this one shows the Puni Plush style better.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.org%2Fkrnvhpre7%2FMami.jpg&hash=1fd04b0209966731f741e2b898caf7ce3162bcb2) (http://postimg.org/image/krnvhpre7/)
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 08:27:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 12, 2014, 08:17:42 PM
I'm not sure I want to revisit that part of my life :blush:
Loved Queen Millennia too, aired in the same network. Emi at lunch time, Queen Millennia after school. And then there was Robotech, which I'm aware it was a mongrel of different anime series but it was just amazing. Give a 10 year old planes that turn into freakin' robots with lazer guns = win.
For the more recent stuff, I like Attack of Titans (hard hitting, serious, mature action show), Sword Art Online (trapped in a game world, Yuki Kajiura music), AnoHana (cry a river), Steins Gate (time travel), Fate Zero (gorgeous animation by UFO Table, Gen "Urobucher" Urobuchi script, Yuki Kajiura music, set in the Fate universe), Angel Beats (cry two rivers plus Key), Rebuild of Neon Genesis Evangelion (nightmare fuel, remake of a classic, animation that puts everything else to shame, mindscrew).
Will keep those in mind. I like the serious kind of stuff. Always loved Matsumoto's space operas, is he up to something? Gotta admire how he figured out the codes of the genre in the 70s before Star Wars even existed.
It's an animated film, but I always loved Perfect Blue. It is also considered a bit of a landmark in western film buff circles.
I need to see them naked and with tentacles in various orafices to make a determination.
I watched the first episode of Madoka Magica. Is the animation always like that?
It also doesn't make sense to me that they draw 12 year old girls with gigantic porn star tits.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 12, 2014, 09:01:18 PM
I watched the first episode of Madoka Magica. Is the animation always like that?
Yes, it is very consistent throughout. I suggest that you keep watching :ph34r:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 12, 2014, 09:02:25 PM
It also doesn't make sense to me that they draw 12 year old girls with gigantic porn star tits.
Yeah that bugs me too. Case in the point is Kagari from Witchcraft works in the current season. But aside from that, Witchcraft works is my favourite show in this season. Completely over the top and proud of it. Totally hilarious. Same director as Girls und Panzer if I am not mistaken.
My favorite "Won't you Japanese respect anything!" show has got to be that one where Nyarlathotep (yes, that Nyarlathotep), takes the form of a cute schoolgirl, together with other characters from the Ctulhu mithos. All as cute Japanese schoolgirls.
At least that one's got the tentacles built right into the premise tho.
cal just came
Quote from: celedhring on February 12, 2014, 09:08:45 PM
My favorite "Won't you Japanese respect anything!" show has got to be that one where Nyarlathotep (yes, that Nyarlathotep), takes the form of a cute schoolgirl, together with other characters from the Ctulhu mithos. All as cute Japanese schoolgirls.
At least that one's got the tentacles built right into the premise tho.
Another childhood favourite of mine is Tom Sawyer's Adventure, from World's Masterpiece Theatre. I watched the anime before reading the book. Really well done for an 80s anime. Keiko Han (Lalah, Gundam; Annerose, LoGH; Athena, Saint Seiya), one of my favourite seiyuus, starred as Becky Thatcher.
Hah! All this time thinking that for some weird reason Annerose reminded me of Athena from Seiya and couldn't put my finger on why. D'oh!
Quote from: celedhring on February 12, 2014, 09:36:08 PM
Hah! All this time thinking that for some weird reason Annerose reminded me of Athena from Seiya and couldn't put my finger on why. D'oh!
She also did Yayoi, Queen Millennia. Probably the go-to seiyuu for queenly, majestic roles in the 80s and early 90s. Largely retired from the business. Her daughter is doing quite a bit of voicework though (one of the lead female roles in Hunter Hunter).
Quote from: Lettow77 on February 12, 2014, 05:46:17 AM
Strike Witches is old and busted. The point of interest is Kantai Collection now.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages6.alphacoders.com%2F468%2F468476.jpg&hash=f374aed5d34d9955f7d445d0d2496c0ff6e39b1a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcf.geekdo-images.com%2Fimages%2Fpic1927496.jpg&hash=664e500b666be7f7626ba11f93598831ea17c466)
:lol:
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 09:03:36 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 12, 2014, 09:01:18 PM
I watched the first episode of Madoka Magica. Is the animation always like that?
Yes, it is very consistent throughout. I suggest that you keep watching :ph34r:
I wasn't keen on the style but I will give it a couple more episodes. We've all our own fandoms and I've been rewatching Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes, so only 36 hours to go :blush:
:lol:
Nice, Seedy.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 12, 2014, 09:47:01 PM
I wasn't keen on the style but I will give it a couple more episodes. We've all our own fandoms and I've been rewatching Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes, so only 36 hours to go :blush:
Episode 2 is probably the weakest link in the series. Don't give up at that point :ph34r:
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 08:53:25 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 12, 2014, 08:44:55 PM
That pic looks like the Madoka girl. /shrug
It is hard to find a Madoka pic without spoilers. Here is Tomoe Mami from the same show. I hope this one shows the Puni Plush style better.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.org%2Fkrnvhpre7%2FMami.jpg&hash=1fd04b0209966731f741e2b898caf7ce3162bcb2) (http://postimg.org/image/krnvhpre7/)
Honestly looks really similar. Same eyes, tiny nose and mouth...
Ayanami Rei, Neon Genesis Evangelion
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.org%2Fot1qvr94z%2FAyanami_rei.jpg&hash=f3be8dda3eeec29e5aea2ca9a2a9a7f64d57982b) (http://postimg.org/image/ot1qvr94z/)
Haruhi Susumiya
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.org%2Fu21d7dgxv%2FHaruhi.jpg&hash=2cd18eb9594f9d68a5bb969fa9d9745dc8eb5c0f) (http://postimg.org/image/u21d7dgxv/)
Title character, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimg.org%2Frmmfr16dx%2FNausicaa.jpg&hash=207a6e434c642593d75017e917a0b2faca7683d6) (http://postimg.org/image/rmmfr16dx/)
Mono's actually made a pretty strong case, IMO.
LOVED Nausicaa :wub:
Compare Clamp's noodle people style in Code Geass
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.postimg.org%2Fo6bo1dcov%2FCode_Geass.jpg&hash=d2c67e7a4eb1268ceeac938fa66bf645bdc2eade) (http://postimg.org/image/o6bo1dcov/)
with Ume Aoki's Puni Plush style in Madoka Magica
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.org%2F4sc40rxfd%2FMadoka_Magica.jpg&hash=c4a672a65e493e11dc7e51f6d005684cfb5dc014) (http://postimg.org/image/4sc40rxfd/)
Goddamn. Anime gays up any thread, doesn't it?
Quote from: PDH on February 12, 2014, 11:15:21 PM
Goddamn. Anime gays up any thread, doesn't it?
My hidden agenda is to use anime as an excuse to bump this thread and remind people of Japan's revisionist antics :menace:
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 11:37:52 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 12, 2014, 11:15:21 PM
Goddamn. Anime gays up any thread, doesn't it?
My hidden agenda is to use anime as an excuse to bump this thread and remind people of Japan's revisionist antics :menace:
All I see and can't get over is the perving on children angle.
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 11:45:07 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 11:37:52 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 12, 2014, 11:15:21 PM
Goddamn. Anime gays up any thread, doesn't it?
My hidden agenda is to use anime as an excuse to bump this thread and remind people of Japan's revisionist antics :menace:
All I see and can't get over is the perving on children angle.
Which is surprising.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 11:37:52 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 12, 2014, 11:15:21 PM
Goddamn. Anime gays up any thread, doesn't it?
My hidden agenda is to use anime as an excuse to bump this thread and remind people of Japan's revisionist antics :menace:
They're still the lesser of two evils.
Quote from: Neil on February 12, 2014, 11:49:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 11:45:07 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 11:37:52 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 12, 2014, 11:15:21 PM
Goddamn. Anime gays up any thread, doesn't it?
My hidden agenda is to use anime as an excuse to bump this thread and remind people of Japan's revisionist antics :menace:
All I see and can't get over is the perving on children angle.
Which is surprising.
Apart from Grallon, I don't actually know any gay people who perv on children.
edit: Well I knew one once who was a teacher at my school but then on the balance we had more straight males who perved on kids. One even married a former student when she was old enough.
Neil's really been hitting the "virulent homophobia" schtick hard lately. One isn't inclined to speculate, but that said... :hmm:
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 12, 2014, 11:59:05 PM
Neil's really been hitting the "virulent homophobia" schtick hard lately. One isn't inclined to speculate, but that said... :hmm:
A girl doesn't kiss and tell.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 12, 2014, 11:59:05 PM
Neil's really been hitting the "virulent homophobia" schtick hard lately. One isn't inclined to speculate, but that said... :hmm:
I've just been annoyed with garbon and (to a lesser extent) Sheilbh. Maybe I was also annoyed by the overboard banging of the gay drums in the leadup to the Russian Olympics. So the only option was to react, because otherwise my silence is consent.
One lesson I have learned is that it is impossible to talk about anime without the ability to post pictures.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1/1912390_10153812391105483_1665739962_n.jpg)
He should have used one of their dating simulations to drive the same point :lol:
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2014, 11:52:04 PM
Apart from Grallon, I don't actually know any gay people who perv on children.
edit: Well I knew one once who was a teacher at my school but then on the balance we had more straight males who perved on kids. One even married a former student when she was old enough.
Heh, biggest perv I knew was a teacher at my HS, who also married one of his students. He was well-known to be screwing some of his students, in those days it led him to be eventually fired (the year after I left the school), but nothing else - nowadays, he'd likely be in court, with BB glowering at him. ;)
The kids were in grade 9, so over the age of consent, just barely (then it was 14).
:mmm:
Anyways, I've *finally* started watching Baccano!. The art is rather beautiful, I must say, capturing the 1930s nicely.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fotakutakeny.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F10%2Fvlcsnap-2011-10-25-08h08m33s86.png&hash=b56dc4c1121f082dd6904b587dcfbaf2eec01bcb)
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 06:19:56 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 12, 2014, 06:07:27 PM
I'm just going by what's in this thread. :P
Clearly, it is arguable that 'anime is all about the pervs' is an unfair stereotype ... but the contents of this thread, in particular how this favorite show contains sexualized scenes with 12 year old girls, is not disabusing me of that stereotype.
Not going to argue with you about the 12 year old thing. I hope they didn't include those scenes in an otherwise excellent anime. I am willing to overlook the, what, 0.1% of the scenes that are problematic. I understand why some people, especially westerners, can't. Apparently it is not a problem in Japan, as Strike Witches has a large following.
The 12 year old thing is just gross, but the central problem is that it seems almost every one of these shows is creepily obsessed with "cutified" young girls - even the ones that have nothing whatever overtly sexual about them.
The cumulative effect, to some Westerners at least, is that there is something deeply wrong with the culture that produces this stuff. The occasional overt perving, like sexually aggressive 12 year olds, simply confirms an overall impression one gets from the rest of the 99.9% that doesn't contain
overt perving.
It's like this: assume you had a neighbour who was always very friendly with young kids. One day, you caught him fucking a young kid. You say 'I always thought that friendlieness was excessive and creepy, and indicated you were a pervert'. The neighbour complains 'it is unfair to conclude that. After all, 99.9% of the time, I
wasn't fucking them'.
Quote from: The Larch on February 13, 2014, 08:24:15 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1/1912390_10153812391105483_1665739962_n.jpg)
Oh dear God.
Here's some artwork for ya, ya shame-based culture freak.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi71.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi152%2F94thBombGroup%2FBattle%2520of%2520Midway%2520-%2520Art%2520Chronology%2FFamousFourMinutes.jpg&hash=2491226325c54c6c9a642ca647533e1221b330c0)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi71.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi152%2F94thBombGroup%2FBattle%2520of%2520Midway%2520-%2520Art%2520Chronology%2FAttackOnTheAkagi-Midway.jpg&hash=6c795c1f4212d8e0cc78dbfc3f822935f5c20192)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi71.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi152%2F94thBombGroup%2FBattle%2520of%2520Midway%2520-%2520Art%2520Chronology%2FTheBattleOfMidway.jpg&hash=b19304850790c9a9a62958f0a4482bead245a8cf)
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 09:10:15 AM
The 12 year old thing is just gross, but the central problem is that it seems almost every one of these shows is creepily obsessed with "cutified" young girls - even the ones that have nothing whatever overtly sexual about them.
The cumulative effect, to some Westerners at least, is that there is something deeply wrong with the culture that produces this stuff. The occasional overt perving, like sexually aggressive 12 year olds, simply confirms an overall impression one gets from the rest of the 99.9% that doesn't contain overt perving.
It's like this: assume you had a neighbour who was always very friendly with young kids. One day, you caught him fucking a young kid. You say 'I always thought that friendlieness was excessive and creepy, and indicated you were a pervert'. The neighbour complains 'it is unfair to conclude that. After all, 99.9% of the time, I wasn't fucking them'.
I think the problem with the analogy is it assumes that the anime industry is one big hive mind, "my neighbour". When in fact there are thousands of neighbours, and only some of them are problematic. The anime industry is incredibly fragmented, and there are a huge variety of different shows. Sure, Strike Witches is filled to the brim with fanservice. Just like there are movies and videos with adult or offensive content. If you don't like Strike Witches (which is perfectly understandable), the solution is not to watch the show. No reason to hate all anime in general, just like there is no reason to hate all movies just because porn movies exist.
I also think there is some cultural difference at play. Westeners are more strict about what kids can and cannot watch. The Japanese are clearly more relaxed about it. So they like to draw and watch cute girls. I really don't see what's wrong with that. It isn't like they are the only culture with an interest in female hotties.
Quote from: Syt on February 13, 2014, 09:03:33 AM
Anyways, I've *finally* started watching Baccano!. The art is rather beautiful, I must say, capturing the 1930s nicely.
I plan to watch it, but don't have the time yet. Is it good?
Seedy's post gave me a boner. Be back in 4 hours.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 13, 2014, 09:56:46 AM
Seedy's post gave me a boner. Be back in 4 hours.
Might want to see a doctor about that.
Japan's attitude to young girls is fucked up.
I remember at a staff party when I worked in high school a group of male teachers were rather casually discussing which of the students were the hottest, it wasn't even a shameful drunken talk, they could just as easily have been speaking about sports.
Not too many years ago there was a big scandal in Shizuoka with teachers behaving *ahem* inappropriately with kids.
Not to mention the whole maid cafe thing....
NSFW-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkHlnWFnA0c
This is one of the most popular pop groups in Japan. Crappy song but the video struck me as rather shocking when I first saw it considering half the girls in that group are under 18. The youngest is 14 iirc. Maybe less- one of their spin offs I know is pretty much all middle schoolers (despite coming from the city with the hottest women. They spoiiled that one, pshh....)
So yeah. Kids in anime- meh. I'd rather pervs be getting excited over that than the real thing.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 13, 2014, 09:58:07 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 13, 2014, 09:56:46 AM
Seedy's post gave me a boner. Be back in 4 hours.
Might want to see a doctor about that.
You might want to go eat a bag of dicks.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 09:52:38 AM
I think the problem with the analogy is it assumes that the anime industry is one big hive mind, "my neighbour". When in fact there are thousands of neighbours, and only some of them are problematic. The anime industry is incredibly fragmented, and there are a huge variety of different shows. Sure, Strike Witches is filled to the brim with fanservice. Just like there are movies and videos with adult or offensive content. If you don't like Strike Witches (which is perfectly understandable), the solution is not to watch the show. No reason to hate all anime in general, just like there is no reason to hate all movies just because porn movies exist.
Yeah ok when I talk to movie fans they do not say 'this is a really great movie you just have to tolerate the porn' because mainstream movies that actual movie fans enjoy are not porn. Likewise most mainstream books do not contain porn except for creepy parts of George RR Martin, and if every time somebody quoted a book it was a creepy GRRM sex scene between a dwarf and his prostitute I could get why they might be anti-book.
But whenever somebody shows me some really popular Anime it usually creeps me out, like freaking Sailor Moon (:x). So yeah if you don't want me to be creeped out by anime maybe we non-fans need to see stuff other than young girls personifying battle ships or weird 12 year old female naked fighter pilots. It doesn't really help that the art style seems to make everybody look sorta pre-pubescent.
Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2014, 09:58:42 AM
Japan's attitude to young girls is fucked up.
I'm interested in how the other half of the population feels about it. I can't seem to find much in the way of women's rights and issues in Japan: which isn't too terribly surprising, I certainly don't expect to find any Groria Steinems or Betty Fliedans over there, but I've always been interested in how Japanese women feel about the sexual aspects of their culture, e.g., the young chicks, dance clubs, uniforms, tentacles, elaborate rope bondage, etc, and how incredibly over-the-top it is.
Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2014, 09:58:42 AM
So yeah. Kids in anime- meh. I'd rather pervs be getting excited over that than the real thing.
Well I guess that's true. If you have to perv on 12 year old girls it is better they be fictional ones.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2014, 10:04:19 AM
I'm interested in how the other half of the population feels about it. I can't seem to find much in the way of women's rights and issues in Japan:
I have seen a couple Japanese women on the internet casually remark that they live in one of the most sexist cultures on the planet. Which is quite a claim given the competition.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 09:52:38 AM
No reason to hate all anime in general, just like there is no reason to hate all movies just because porn movies exist.
I don't think that's a good comparison. Here we have you saying on one hand that many animes are big on fanservice. Then that strike witches is a great anime while meanwhile telling us that we shouldn't get so hung up about sexualized 12 year olds.
I'm not necessarily against animes in general (as I can think of a few things I've seen that I liked in the past), but it does cause my eyebrows to raise thinking about that as the mindset of a typical anime viewer.
So do they still have vending machines for used schoolgirls' panties in Japan?
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 10:03:03 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 09:52:38 AM
I think the problem with the analogy is it assumes that the anime industry is one big hive mind, "my neighbour". When in fact there are thousands of neighbours, and only some of them are problematic. The anime industry is incredibly fragmented, and there are a huge variety of different shows. Sure, Strike Witches is filled to the brim with fanservice. Just like there are movies and videos with adult or offensive content. If you don't like Strike Witches (which is perfectly understandable), the solution is not to watch the show. No reason to hate all anime in general, just like there is no reason to hate all movies just because porn movies exist.
Yeah ok when I talk to movie fans they do not say 'this is a really great movie you just have to tolerate the porn' because mainstream movies that actual movie fans enjoy are not porn. Likewise most mainstream books do not contain porn except for creepy parts of George RR Martin, and if every time somebody quoted a book it was a creepy GRRM sex scene between a dwarf and his prostitute I could get why they might be anti-book.
But whenever somebody shows me some really popular Anime it usually creeps me out, like freaking Sailor Moon (:x). So yeah if you don't want me to be creeped out by anime maybe we non-fans need to see stuff other than young girls personifying battle ships or weird 12 year old female naked fighter pilots. It doesn't really help that the art style seems to make everybody look sorta pre-pubescent.
:yes:
Well said.
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 10:05:44 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2014, 10:04:19 AM
I'm interested in how the other half of the population feels about it. I can't seem to find much in the way of women's rights and issues in Japan:
I have seen a couple Japanese women on the internet casually remark that they live in one of the most sexist cultures on the planet. Which is quite a claim given the competition.
A Taiwanese friend of mine that spent most of her life in Tokyo used to tell me it is a horrible place for women. She would walk to school and back (an hour each way) to avoid the subway groping, for example.
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 10:03:03 AM
But whenever somebody shows me some really popular Anime it usually creeps me out, like freaking Sailor Moon (:x). So yeah if you don't want me to be creeped out by anime maybe we non-fans need to see stuff other than young girls personifying battle ships or weird 12 year old female naked fighter pilots. It doesn't really help that the art style seems to make everybody look sorta pre-pubescent.
I already have. I can list 10 popular anime shows right now that contain very little or no fanservice. Madoka Magica, Attack on Titans, Steins Gate, Angel Beats, Clannad, Gundam, Log Horizon, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Sword Art Online, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. I can go on and list 50 more if you want, but you get the point.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 10:12:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 10:03:03 AM
But whenever somebody shows me some really popular Anime it usually creeps me out, like freaking Sailor Moon (:x). So yeah if you don't want me to be creeped out by anime maybe we non-fans need to see stuff other than young girls personifying battle ships or weird 12 year old female naked fighter pilots. It doesn't really help that the art style seems to make everybody look sorta pre-pubescent.
I already have. I can list 10 popular anime shows right now that contain very little or no fanservice. Madoka Magica, Attack on Titans, Steins Gate, Angel Beats, Clannad, Gundam, Log Horizon, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Sword Art Online, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. I can go on and list 50 more if you want, but you get the point.
Actually I think you are missing his point.
Quote
So do they still have vending machines for used schoolgirls' panties in Japan?
I don't think so. I recall reading that they were somhow ruled illegal.
But its not like they were ever a big thing. There were only ever literally a handful of machines in major sex shop areas.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2014, 10:04:19 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2014, 09:58:42 AM
Japan's attitude to young girls is fucked up.
I'm interested in how the other half of the population feels about it. I can't seem to find much in the way of women's rights and issues in Japan: which isn't too terribly surprising, I certainly don't expect to find any Groria Steinems or Betty Fliedans over there, but I've always been interested in how Japanese women feel about the sexual aspects of their culture, e.g., the young chicks, dance clubs, uniforms, tentacles, elaborate rope bondage, etc, and how incredibly over-the-top it is.
As with right wing politicians saying stupid shit, the spirit of "Its the way of things, it can't be helped" is strong.
Whilst the male teachers were comparing students the female teachers I was sitting with just responded to my outrage with smiles that I could only read as "We don't approve but its not worth making enemies over"
From what I can see Japanese women tend to be pretty weird. One minute they're rather modern, wanting careers and excitement in their lives, and the next they plan on settling down and being a housewife before they're 30 or else they are doomed.
Anime fans are certainly regarded with disdain by most Japanese people but teen-idol groups are popular with men and women alike.
Given how messed up Japanese relationships have the reputation of being I can only guess women don't mind all the porn? Stops their husbands going and finding a real woman to have sex with (since they aren't going to do that themselves).
To be honest, a bunch of well reputed TV series in the US carry loads of "fanservice". But it's usually quite non-pervy (if massively sexist).
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 09:52:38 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 09:10:15 AM
The 12 year old thing is just gross, but the central problem is that it seems almost every one of these shows is creepily obsessed with "cutified" young girls - even the ones that have nothing whatever overtly sexual about them.
The cumulative effect, to some Westerners at least, is that there is something deeply wrong with the culture that produces this stuff. The occasional overt perving, like sexually aggressive 12 year olds, simply confirms an overall impression one gets from the rest of the 99.9% that doesn't contain overt perving.
It's like this: assume you had a neighbour who was always very friendly with young kids. One day, you caught him fucking a young kid. You say 'I always thought that friendlieness was excessive and creepy, and indicated you were a pervert'. The neighbour complains 'it is unfair to conclude that. After all, 99.9% of the time, I wasn't fucking them'.
I think the problem with the analogy is it assumes that the anime industry is one big hive mind, "my neighbour". When in fact there are thousands of neighbours, and only some of them are problematic. The anime industry is incredibly fragmented, and there are a huge variety of different shows. Sure, Strike Witches is filled to the brim with fanservice. Just like there are movies and videos with adult or offensive content. If you don't like Strike Witches (which is perfectly understandable), the solution is not to watch the show. No reason to hate all anime in general, just like there is no reason to hate all movies just because porn movies exist.
I also think there is some cultural difference at play. Westeners are more strict about what kids can and cannot watch. The Japanese are clearly more relaxed about it. So they like to draw and watch cute girls. I really don't see what's wrong with that. It isn't like they are the only culture with an interest in female hotties.
There may be a huge variety of shows, but there is definitely an impression that many if not most of them feature underage girls - or women drawn to look like underage girls. The 'look' may have great variety to a connossuer, but to the non-expert they all more or less look the same - 'cute' underage young girls. What varies is how overtly they are sexualized - some of them are drawn to look like they are 13 years old but with massive breasts, and some are drawn to look 13 years old without massive breasts.
Sure, everyone likes female hotties - it just jars against our cultural prejudices when it is simply
presumed that the hottest of hotties is an underage girl, and that this is the 'look' that women should aspire to to be attractive to (presumably) adult men.
It isn't the kids watching the stuff that Westerners are worried about - it is the adult men watching the stuff and getting off on it. Not because getting off on porn is worrying, but getting off on underage girls is.
Westerners find young girls "cute" too, but it is culturally supposed to be an unsexualized "cute". Sexualizing underage girls is frowned upon, though of course it occurs sometimes. What Westerners find creepy about anime is that it appears to be the default position.
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 10:16:00 AM
To be honest, a bunch of well reputed TV series in the US carry loads of "fanservice".
Fan service of hot 20-somethings: Win
Fan service of middle schoolers: Not win
Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2014, 10:18:10 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 10:16:00 AM
To be honest, a bunch of well reputed TV series in the US carry loads of "fanservice".
Fan service of hot 20-somethings: Win
Fan service of middle schoolers: Not win
Well we also have a lot of shows about teens/ high school but yeah pretty much everyone in those are 20-somethings.
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 10:16:00 AM
To be honest, a bunch of well reputed TV series in the US carry loads of "fanservice". But it's usually quite non-pervy (if massively sexist).
Really? US shows tend to have fanservice for both men and women by generally having a cast that consists entirely of gorgeous actors and actresses...and at least the actors are all in their 20s and 30s even if sometimes the characters are not. American High Schools are full of people who look 29 for some reason.
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 10:16:21 AM
There may be a huge variety of shows, but there is definitely an impression that many if not most of them feature underage girls - or women drawn to look like underage girls. The 'look' may have great variety to a connossuer, but to the non-expert they all more or less look the same - 'cute' underage young girls. What varies is how overtly they are sexualized - some of them are drawn to look like they are 13 years old but with massive breasts, and some are drawn to look 13 years old without massive breasts.
Sure, everyone likes female hotties - it just jars against our cultural prejudices when it is simply presumed that the hottest of hotties is an underage girl, and that this is the 'look' that women should aspire to to be attractive to (presumably) adult men.
It isn't the kids watching the stuff that Westerners are worried about - it is the adult men watching the stuff and getting off on it. Not because getting off on porn is worrying, but getting off on underage girls is.
Westerners find young girls "cute" too, but it is culturally supposed to be an unsexualized "cute". Sexualizing underage girls is frowned upon, though of course it occurs sometimes. What Westerners find creepy about anime is that it appears to be the default position.
I think we can all agree that we should protect real underage children. As I see it the problem is to what extent this applies to fictional and animated characters. I've lived in Canada for a couple of years to know that this is one big berserk button for westerners. It is not so with Japan apparently. You guys think it is a problem showing underage animated girls in skimpy clothing; they think it is not that serious a problem. To be honest, as long as we are talking about animated characters and not real people, I'll just call it cultural difference.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2014, 10:04:19 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2014, 09:58:42 AM
Japan's attitude to young girls is fucked up.
I'm interested in how the other half of the population feels about it. I can't seem to find much in the way of women's rights and issues in Japan: which isn't too terribly surprising, I certainly don't expect to find any Groria Steinems or Betty Fliedans over there, but I've always been interested in how Japanese women feel about the sexual aspects of their culture, e.g., the young chicks, dance clubs, uniforms, tentacles, elaborate rope bondage, etc, and how incredibly over-the-top it is.
I don't know any Japanese women, but I can tell you how my wife feels about it - she saw a show about those "maid cafes" and her remark was that the Americans clearly did not nuke the Japanese
enough. :lol:
What if the nukes are what caused maid cafes? Like Godzilla. :P
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 10:28:02 AM
I think we can all agree that we should protect real underage children. As I see it the problem is to what extent this applies to fictional and animated characters. I've lived in Canada for a couple of years to know that this is one big berserk button for westerners. It is not so with Japan apparently. You guys think it is a problem showing underage animated girls in skimpy clothing; they think it is not that serious a problem. To be honest, as long as we are talking about animated characters and not real people, I'll just call it cultural difference.
Fair enough, I don't think it should be criminalized or anything - I just think it is sorta creepy, and shows the culture in an unflattering light. God knows enough Western popular entertainment does that as well. :lol:
I am sure the Chinese think that all Americans are represented by Jersey Shore and Duck Dynasty.
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 10:29:19 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2014, 10:04:19 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2014, 09:58:42 AM
Japan's attitude to young girls is fucked up.
I'm interested in how the other half of the population feels about it. I can't seem to find much in the way of women's rights and issues in Japan: which isn't too terribly surprising, I certainly don't expect to find any Groria Steinems or Betty Fliedans over there, but I've always been interested in how Japanese women feel about the sexual aspects of their culture, e.g., the young chicks, dance clubs, uniforms, tentacles, elaborate rope bondage, etc, and how incredibly over-the-top it is.
I don't know any Japanese women, but I can tell you how my wife feels about it - she saw a show about those "maid cafes" and her remark was that the Americans clearly did not nuke the Japanese enough. :lol:
I also find the maid cafes...odd. But I don't find them offensive. I find it even more weird that some people can accept strip bars featuring nude girls, but not maid cafes.
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 13, 2014, 10:31:27 AM
What if the nukes are what caused maid cafes? Like Godzilla. :P
"The Japanese - nuked too much, or not enough?" 'tis the question. :hmm:
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 13, 2014, 10:32:51 AM
I am sure the Chinese think that all Americans are represented by Jersey Shore and Duck Dynasty.
Not so.
They assume Americans are like Honey Boo Boo's family. :P
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 10:29:19 AM
I don't know any Japanese women, but I can tell you how my wife feels about it - she saw a show about those "maid cafes" and her remark was that the Americans clearly did not nuke the Japanese enough. :lol:
I am not sure what maid cafes are but we have Hooters and pervy creepy restaurants as well. It is not that I have an issue with Japan having pervy stuff, I just do not have much interest in consuming it.
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 10:29:19 AM
I don't know any Japanese women, but I can tell you how my wife feels about it - she saw a show about those "maid cafes" and her remark was that the Americans clearly did not nuke the Japanese enough. :lol:
I am not sure what maid cafes are but we have Hooters and pervy creepy restaurants as well. It is not that I have an issue with Japan having pervy stuff, I just do not have much interest in consuming it.
Well, to expand, the program wasn't just about maid cafes, but about sexuality in Japan in general (with maid cafes being the lead-in). Whatever its charms for men, its depiction of the situation was not enticing from a female POV (fairly or not, I have no idea). It left my wife thanking the powers she was not born a woman in Japan (though of course born a woman in Saudi Arabia or some third world hell-hole would be infinitely worse).
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 10:23:24 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 10:16:00 AM
To be honest, a bunch of well reputed TV series in the US carry loads of "fanservice". But it's usually quite non-pervy (if massively sexist).
Really? US shows tend to have fanservice for both men and women by generally having a cast that consists entirely of gorgeous actors and actresses...and at least the actors are all in their 20s and 30s even if sometimes the characters are not. American High Schools are full of people who look 29 for some reason.
I'm thinking more of shows like Game of Thrones, Galactica (that one's sooo blatant), heck, we were all tripping about the tits scene in True Detective the other day. You don't get much of that for women. Although I admit that media like Twilight and its brainchilds are paving the way of equal objectification of men.
And I love T&A as much as anybody else, I just wish equal opportunities of being sexist for both genders :)
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 10:35:18 AM
I am not sure what maid cafes are but we have Hooters and pervy creepy restaurants as well. It is not that I have an issue with Japan having pervy stuff, I just do not have much interest in consuming it.
Hooters- Pubs (a little pricier than the norm? but as I understand it they earn their money in essentially the same way as a regular bar) staffed by hot girls with boobies and an average man target audience.
Maid cafes- Ostensible cafes with extortionate seating charges, aimed at the socially inept, who pay for very very young looking girls in fetish-fuel costumes to pretend to be their slaves.
I actually know a girl who used to work in a maid cafe. She's 25 but looks about 15 and generally acts about 10. I just don't get it.
I am curious about Hooters. I really do need to recruit people to go check out the one in Tokyo sometime....I hear their food is pretty good. Plus Japanese girls with boobies=possibly the best sounding thing ever.
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 10:16:00 AM
To be honest, a bunch of well reputed TV series in the US carry loads of "fanservice".
That's just due to millennial hipsterism, and assholes like Timmay and the rest of the Axis of Anime.
Unfortunately, animetardism has been going strong--oh, by my watch I'd say 1990--for such a while, you'd think it would be passe' by now.
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 10:31:43 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 10:28:02 AM
I think we can all agree that we should protect real underage children. As I see it the problem is to what extent this applies to fictional and animated characters. I've lived in Canada for a couple of years to know that this is one big berserk button for westerners. It is not so with Japan apparently. You guys think it is a problem showing underage animated girls in skimpy clothing; they think it is not that serious a problem. To be honest, as long as we are talking about animated characters and not real people, I'll just call it cultural difference.
Fair enough, I don't think it should be criminalized or anything - I just think it is sorta creepy, and shows the culture in an unflattering light. God knows enough Western popular entertainment does that as well. :lol:
Sometimes I wonder if the haters really understand the shows they hate. Sailor Moon for example. Some see a few screenshots of cute girls in very short skirts and say this is creepy. Have they really watched the show though? The show is all about an all-female cast fighting the bad guys. They drive the story; are given positive character development; they don't need much help from the males; they develop close friendships with each other. If anything, this is a very girl-power show. Same with Strike Witches, really.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 10:33:01 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 10:29:19 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2014, 10:04:19 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2014, 09:58:42 AM
Japan's attitude to young girls is fucked up.
I'm interested in how the other half of the population feels about it. I can't seem to find much in the way of women's rights and issues in Japan: which isn't too terribly surprising, I certainly don't expect to find any Groria Steinems or Betty Fliedans over there, but I've always been interested in how Japanese women feel about the sexual aspects of their culture, e.g., the young chicks, dance clubs, uniforms, tentacles, elaborate rope bondage, etc, and how incredibly over-the-top it is.
I don't know any Japanese women, but I can tell you how my wife feels about it - she saw a show about those "maid cafes" and her remark was that the Americans clearly did not nuke the Japanese enough. :lol:
I also find the maid cafes...odd. But I don't find them offensive. I find it even more weird that some people can accept strip bars featuring nude girls, but not maid cafes.
That reminds me of my thread regarding the social acceptability of strip clubs in the US from ages ago. :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2014, 10:46:57 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 10:16:00 AM
To be honest, a bunch of well reputed TV series in the US carry loads of "fanservice".
That's just due to millennial hipsterism, and assholes like Timmay and the rest of the Axis of Anime.
Unfortunately, animetardism has been going strong--oh, by my watch I'd say 1990--for such a while, you'd think it would be passe' by now.
Anime is pretty much alive. I keep hearing comments that anime is dying, from anime fans and haters alike. I was very surprised to find out that at any given time, there are like 60-80 shows airing simultaneously in Japan. And it isn't just the quantity. New smash hits come out every year with quality animation and story-telling.
Yahoo. Up with cartoon panties shots.
I also hear that, in Japan, the wives control the family finances. The husbands are supposed to give all their earnings to their wives. The females then give a small portion of the earnings back to the males as pocket money. The big chunks stay with the girls.
I do see a lot of middle-aged Japanese females going to expensive department stores and restaurants in large groups during office hours :ph34r:
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 10:50:15 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 10:31:43 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 10:28:02 AM
I think we can all agree that we should protect real underage children. As I see it the problem is to what extent this applies to fictional and animated characters. I've lived in Canada for a couple of years to know that this is one big berserk button for westerners. It is not so with Japan apparently. You guys think it is a problem showing underage animated girls in skimpy clothing; they think it is not that serious a problem. To be honest, as long as we are talking about animated characters and not real people, I'll just call it cultural difference.
Fair enough, I don't think it should be criminalized or anything - I just think it is sorta creepy, and shows the culture in an unflattering light. God knows enough Western popular entertainment does that as well. :lol:
Sometimes I wonder if the haters really understand the shows they hate. Sailor Moon for example. Some see a few screenshots of cute girls in very short skirts and say this is creepy. Have they really watched the show though? The show is all about an all-female cast fighting the bad guys. They drive the story; are given positive character development; they don't need much help from the males; they develop close friendships with each other. If anything, this is a very girl-power show. Same with Strike Witches, really.
It isn't the plot they are hating, but the visual depiction.
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 11:09:54 AM
It isn't the plot they are hating, but the visual depiction.
They are just not used to the style :P
Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2014, 10:44:58 AM
I am curious about Hooters. I really do need to recruit people to go check out the one in Tokyo sometime....I hear their food is pretty good. Plus Japanese girls with boobies=possibly the best sounding thing ever.
Hooters (in NAm at least):
Food is not what I would describe as pretty good. It's typical bar food - chicken wings and burgers. It's adequate, not great.
Waitresses - they don't particularly have large breasts. What they do have is really tight t-shirts.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 10:50:15 AM
Sometimes I wonder if the haters really understand the shows they hate. Sailor Moon for example. Some see a few screenshots of cute girls in very short skirts and say this is creepy. Have they really watched the show though? The show is all about an all-female cast fighting the bad guys. They drive the story; are given positive character development; they don't need much help from the males; they develop close friendships with each other. If anything, this is a very girl-power show. Same with Strike Witches, really.
Ok first the whole 'tweeners save the world' plot is not one likely to attract my notice much anyway. Secondly the reason for the all female cast seems suspiciously for pervy reasons (and not even pervy reasons I can appreciate). Thirdly girl power might be great for teenage girls, and those who love teenage girls, but not so much for me. I am sure the characters and story are great, after all this is a show so famous that even I have heard about it, but it has enough creepy imagery to turn me off. Finally I am not even a hater just somebody with zero interest.
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 10:41:06 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 10:23:24 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 10:16:00 AM
To be honest, a bunch of well reputed TV series in the US carry loads of "fanservice". But it's usually quite non-pervy (if massively sexist).
Really? US shows tend to have fanservice for both men and women by generally having a cast that consists entirely of gorgeous actors and actresses...and at least the actors are all in their 20s and 30s even if sometimes the characters are not. American High Schools are full of people who look 29 for some reason.
I'm thinking more of shows like Game of Thrones, Galactica (that one's sooo blatant), heck, we were all tripping about the tits scene in True Detective the other day. You don't get much of that for women. Although I admit that media like Twilight and its brainchilds are paving the way of equal objectification of men.
And I love T&A as much as anybody else, I just wish equal opportunities of being sexist for both genders :)
I don't know why you think that is an issue now (or would highlight Twilight as best example). We've plenty of opportunities now to stare at the male form. One of the bits I liked best about Craig becoming Bond was how the camera followed his barely clothed body.
Quote from: Barrister on February 13, 2014, 11:19:54 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2014, 10:44:58 AM
I am curious about Hooters. I really do need to recruit people to go check out the one in Tokyo sometime....I hear their food is pretty good. Plus Japanese girls with boobies=possibly the best sounding thing ever.
Hooters (in NAm at least):
Food is not what I would describe as pretty good. It's typical bar food - chicken wings and burgers. It's adequate, not great.
Waitresses - they don't particularly have large breasts. What they do have is really tight t-shirts.
Having visited a few Hooters locations, the food and waitress quality can vary greatly by location. Of course at its best the food is still pub grub, but at the better places it's fresh, well prepared, and tasty.
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 11:27:28 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 10:50:15 AM
Sometimes I wonder if the haters really understand the shows they hate. Sailor Moon for example. Some see a few screenshots of cute girls in very short skirts and say this is creepy. Have they really watched the show though? The show is all about an all-female cast fighting the bad guys. They drive the story; are given positive character development; they don't need much help from the males; they develop close friendships with each other. If anything, this is a very girl-power show. Same with Strike Witches, really.
Ok first the whole 'tweeners save the world' plot is not one likely to attract my notice much anyway. Secondly the reason for the all female cast seems suspiciously for pervy reasons (and not even pervy reasons I can appreciate). Thirdly girl power might be great for teenage girls, and those who love teenage girls, but not so much for me. I am sure the characters and story are great, after all this is a show so famous that even I have heard about it, but it has enough creepy imagery to turn me off. Finally I am not even a hater just somebody with zero interest.
I saw a bit of Sailor Moon as a child. It was creepy even then...particularly the side scroller video game.
My problem with Hooters is I don't know what proper customer behavior is. Are you supposed to perv on the waitresses and make comments to your buddies about their tits, or are you supposed to pretend you're in an Applebees?
I've been in a Hooters once and I found it surreal.
On the other hand, the Bikini Bar I visited in Austin made perfect sense to me.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 10:41:06 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 10:23:24 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 10:16:00 AM
To be honest, a bunch of well reputed TV series in the US carry loads of "fanservice". But it's usually quite non-pervy (if massively sexist).
Really? US shows tend to have fanservice for both men and women by generally having a cast that consists entirely of gorgeous actors and actresses...and at least the actors are all in their 20s and 30s even if sometimes the characters are not. American High Schools are full of people who look 29 for some reason.
I'm thinking more of shows like Game of Thrones, Galactica (that one's sooo blatant), heck, we were all tripping about the tits scene in True Detective the other day. You don't get much of that for women. Although I admit that media like Twilight and its brainchilds are paving the way of equal objectification of men.
And I love T&A as much as anybody else, I just wish equal opportunities of being sexist for both genders :)
I don't know why you think that is an issue now (or would highlight Twilight as best example). We've plenty of opportunities now to stare at the male form. One of the bits I liked best about Craig becoming Bond was how the camera followed his barely clothed body.
Put Twilight as an example because it was a movie about a female fantasy that was hugely successful. Instead of yet another male fantasy.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
My problem with Hooters is I don't know what proper customer behavior is. Are you supposed to perv on the waitresses and make comments to your buddies about their tits, or are you supposed to pretend you're in an Applebees?
I've been in a Hooters once and I found it surreal.
On the other hand, the Bikini Bar I visited in Austin made perfect sense to me.
That's a good point. I have no philosophical objection to Hooters and the like, but generally do not attend for pretty much that reason.
Quote from: Barrister on February 13, 2014, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
My problem with Hooters is I don't know what proper customer behavior is. Are you supposed to perv on the waitresses and make comments to your buddies about their tits, or are you supposed to pretend you're in an Applebees?
I've been in a Hooters once and I found it surreal.
On the other hand, the Bikini Bar I visited in Austin made perfect sense to me.
That's a good point. I have no philosophical objection to Hooters and the like, but generally do not attend for pretty much that reason.
That you want to perv but don't know the etiquette?
I have nothing against sneaking glances at hott serving staff, but it is a bit off-putting when that's the whole business model. :lol:
It's interesting how Japanese society can be so honest in their attitude towards young women, and yet unable to face reality in regards to World War II.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 12:14:44 PM
That you want to perv but don't know the etiquette?
It's not an etiquette issue. It's about not being a dork.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 12:14:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 13, 2014, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
My problem with Hooters is I don't know what proper customer behavior is. Are you supposed to perv on the waitresses and make comments to your buddies about their tits, or are you supposed to pretend you're in an Applebees?
I've been in a Hooters once and I found it surreal.
On the other hand, the Bikini Bar I visited in Austin made perfect sense to me.
That's a good point. I have no philosophical objection to Hooters and the like, but generally do not attend for pretty much that reason.
That you want to perv but don't know the etiquette?
Well, *if* I want to perv, I'd rather we all be open and honest about it.
If that's my intention, I'd probably rather just go to the strippers, where ogling and perving is not only accepted but encouraged. Not that I've been to the peelers for at least a decade...
You know, I've thought about the topic of fan service.
I find that the series I enjoy most don't have it or only very sparsely. Some that I enjoyed or was at least engaged in I did so despite the fan service.
Elfen Lied would be a classic example (spoilers ahead). One character has been sexually molested as a child by her step dad. Another had her class mates kill her puppy for fun (in response she painted the class room with their blood - not a figure of speech). Another girl gets sent by her foster father into near fatal battle and is (seemingly) put to sleep afterwards. The main characters are connected because the supernatural girl decapitated the protagonist's sister before his eyes - which led to him blocking out the memory.
In short: extremely dark and depressing. And then you get topless/gratuitous crotch shots of most (underage) female characters and silly slapstick antics. WHY? This story doesn't need that!
Quote from: Barrister on February 13, 2014, 12:32:18 PM
If that's my intention, I'd probably rather just go to the strippers, where ogling and perving is not only accepted but encouraged. Not that I've been to the peelers for at least a decade...
I never understood that - getting horny with friends that is.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 12:38:19 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 13, 2014, 12:32:18 PM
If that's my intention, I'd probably rather just go to the strippers, where ogling and perving is not only accepted but encouraged. Not that I've been to the peelers for at least a decade...
I never understood that - getting horny with friends that is.
It was kind of an inherently a "guys night out" event. No girlfriends, nobody trying to look cool to hit on girls.
Quote from: Barrister on February 13, 2014, 12:54:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 12:38:19 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 13, 2014, 12:32:18 PM
If that's my intention, I'd probably rather just go to the strippers, where ogling and perving is not only accepted but encouraged. Not that I've been to the peelers for at least a decade...
I never understood that - getting horny with friends that is.
It was kind of an inherently a "guys night out" event. No girlfriends, nobody trying to look cool to hit on girls.
That's exactly what I don't understand. If I'm going to get turned on, I'd at least want someone near that I had a chance of getting laid with.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 12:57:23 PM
That's exactly what I don't understand. If I'm going to get turned on, I'd at least want someone near that I had a chance of getting laid with.
Do you close your eyes when attractive men appear in movies or magazines, or walk by you on the street?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 12:59:40 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 12:57:23 PM
That's exactly what I don't understand. If I'm going to get turned on, I'd at least want someone near that I had a chance of getting laid with.
Do you close your eyes when attractive men appear in movies or magazines, or walk by you on the street?
Of course not. But that's rather different from going to a place to watch men strip down. If I go with friends to a gay bar, always the opportunity for one of us to wade off an pick someone up.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 12:28:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 12:14:44 PM
That you want to perv but don't know the etiquette?
It's not an etiquette issue. It's about not being a dork.
I'm not sure it has to be all one way or the other. But I guess my approach has been closest to the Applebees one you describe. I treat the waitresses just like I would anywhere else. Maybe look at them a little differently, but I keep that to myself.
I think it's possible for men to admire gorgeous/attractive, scantily-clad women without being fully "turned on".
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 13, 2014, 01:17:28 PM
I think it's possible for men to admire gorgeous/attractive, scantily-clad women without being fully "turned on".
And gets easier every year. :(
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 13, 2014, 01:17:28 PM
I think it's possible for men to admire gorgeous/attractive, scantily-clad women without being fully "turned on".
Sure, I'm not imagining that you'd be hanging with your friends at full mast or even a semi - but like I said, I don't really understand the notion of wanting to see naked people and get excited for no...finish.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 01:24:14 PM
Sure, I'm not imagining that you'd be hanging with your friends at full mast or even a semi - but like I said, I don't really understand the notion of wanting to see naked people and get excited for no...finish.
That's because you're gay and by definition have a very primitive and simplistic concept of sexuality.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 01:24:14 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 13, 2014, 01:17:28 PM
I think it's possible for men to admire gorgeous/attractive, scantily-clad women without being fully "turned on".
Sure, I'm not imagining that you'd be hanging with your friends at full mast or even a semi - but like I said, I don't really understand the notion of wanting to see naked people and get excited for no...finish.
The Straight Man's Burden. :(
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 01:25:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 01:24:14 PM
Sure, I'm not imagining that you'd be hanging with your friends at full mast or even a semi - but like I said, I don't really understand the notion of wanting to see naked people and get excited for no...finish.
That's because you're gay and by definition have a very primitive and simplistic concept of sexuality.
OK, Neil.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 01:25:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 01:24:14 PM
Sure, I'm not imagining that you'd be hanging with your friends at full mast or even a semi - but like I said, I don't really understand the notion of wanting to see naked people and get excited for no...finish.
That's because you're gay and by definition have a very primitive and simplistic concept of sexuality.
:yeahright:
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 01:24:14 PM
Sure, I'm not imagining that you'd be hanging with your friends at full mast or even a semi - but like I said, I don't really understand the notion of wanting to see naked people and get excited for no...finish.
Makes sense. Which is why I never really went to strip clubs unless it was a bachelor party or my friends dragged me there. It's not that I'm against looking at nekkid wimmen, but I get all revved up and then what? And any direct interaction with a stripper = total awkwardness.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 12:57:23 PM
That's exactly what I don't understand. If I'm going to get turned on, I'd at least want someone near that I had a chance of getting laid with.
That makes logical sense but that is not really what going to strip clubs is all about. It is this weird fantasy world where you can have any woman you want take her clothes off and rub her body on you like you are Louis XV or some shit. But it is the fantasy you generally are not going to get laid...if you want that you have to go someplace else (Well...unless you are a really big spender or so I am told). I have only ever gone for bachelor parties but I enjoyed it quite a bit which surprised me. I can certainly see how it could be addicting but I am glad I only did it those few times. It is the junk food of sex, basically unfulfilling and probably unhealthy to do very often.
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 12:57:23 PM
That's exactly what I don't understand. If I'm going to get turned on, I'd at least want someone near that I had a chance of getting laid with.
That makes logical sense but that is not really what going to strip clubs is all about. It is this weird fantasy world where you can have any woman you want take her clothes off and rub her body on you like you are Louis XV or some shit. But it is the fantasy you generally are not going to get laid...if you want that you have to go someplace else (Well...unless you are a really big spender or so I am told).
That makes sense for me up to the point as to why that is a fantasy. :D
Quote from: derspiess on February 13, 2014, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 01:24:14 PM
Sure, I'm not imagining that you'd be hanging with your friends at full mast or even a semi - but like I said, I don't really understand the notion of wanting to see naked people and get excited for no...finish.
Makes sense. Which is why I never really went to strip clubs unless it was a bachelor party or my friends dragged me there. It's not that I'm against looking at nekkid wimmen, but I get all revved up and then what? And any direct interaction with a stripper = total awkwardness.
Yeah this I get all around.
I've also only encountered a few males strippers and they were a sweaty mess. Not appealing.
I refuse to go to Hooters, as I find it morally reprehensible to women. It's craven and juvenile.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2014, 01:40:11 PM
I refuse to go to Hooters, as I find it morally reprehensible to women. It's craven and juvenile.
I have never actually been there. Though I did go to Bone Daddy's once (also for a bachelor party of course). Slutty waitresses and shitty BBQ. Meh not a fan.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 01:35:17 PM
That makes sense for me up to the point as to why that is a fantasy. :D
Beautiful women do not typically run up to average Joes like me eager to please, being very charming, and eager to strip and let me touch and perv on them. It is kind of like 'oh so this is kind of what it must be like to be rock star'. Granted it is all bullshit, which is why it was lots of fun to do once but I never intend to again.
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 10:03:03 AM
[
But whenever somebody shows me some really popular Anime it usually creeps me out, like freaking Sailor Moon (:x). So yeah if you don't want me to be creeped out by anime maybe we non-fans need to see stuff other than young girls personifying battle ships or weird 12 year old female naked fighter pilots. It doesn't really help that the art style seems to make everybody look sorta pre-pubescent.
You're a weird combo of Ségolène Royal :frog: and Yank puritanism to get worked up by Sailor Moon. It's not like Sailor Moon girls look "sorta pre-pubescent". They might be still waiting for Prince Charming but they have been seen also as part of the Girl Power phenomenon with all the fights against evil.
Sailor Moon was the last wave of the mainstream
dessins animés japonais in France (mid'90s) though in some other countries such as Germany IIRC it introduced them to anime.
I wonder if Yanks do not equate anime with Hentai à la Blue Girl or Urotsukodoji? It's not like Leiji Matsumoto with his vintage anime (old enough for Comte Largent) did any real fan service with Captain Harlock a.k.a Albator:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnitescence.free.fr%2FAlbator.jpg&hash=fa5b959862adc4b71224374b1c7a47f3af7a1f3b) (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fchezminette87.c.h.pic.centerblog.net%2Fuqp2gq86.jpg&hash=eebc437ce6ebb8ae8c097094e69c91b9804f2ad7)
He was into battleships and WWII planes though...
The above 2 may be known by Viper as well but they're a symbol of the above 30 year old generation in French-speaking countries.
There's also Mazinger a.k.a Goldorak for Viper and me in French-speaking countries, icon of the big robot craze in the late '70s
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl.lazerus.free.fr%2Fimages%2FGoldorak1.jpg&hash=8d7eab55fb181c9428bbf95e5c6a61bf3b099669)
Monoriu has been explaining this before but I'll add an European side: if you don't want the T&A, stick to material approved for children, not late teenagers. Germany with its very strict censorship laws restricts Sailor Moon to people over 12, and Star Trek season 2 for people over 16 to give you an example of hang-up (hint: Patterns of Force).
I think it is misleading and not particularly helpful to portray the North Americans in this discussion as against T&A.
Quote from: Syt on February 13, 2014, 12:37:12 PM
You know, I've thought about the topic of fan service.
I find that the series I enjoy most don't have it or only very sparsely. Some that I enjoyed or was at least engaged in I did so despite the fan service.
Elfen Lied would be a classic example (spoilers ahead). One character has been sexually molested as a child by her step dad. Another had her class mates kill her puppy for fun (in response she painted the class room with their blood - not a figure of speech). Another girl gets sent by her foster father into near fatal battle and is (seemingly) put to sleep afterwards. The main characters are connected because the supernatural girl decapitated the protagonist's sister before his eyes - which led to him blocking out the memory.
In short: extremely dark and depressing. And then you get topless/gratuitous crotch shots of most (underage) female characters and silly slapstick antics. WHY? This story doesn't need that!
I like me some tits as much as any man, and moreso than most.
But here's the thing - tits are pretty easy to find, at least from the standpoint of finding some to look at, whether on film or tv.
Excellent filmmaking? That is much, MUCH more rare.
Which is why I like some gratuitous T&A in my Game of Thrones, but a little bit goes a long way - over the top tits where they dominate the scene annoy's me greatly, because I cannot help but be jealous of every minute of screen time.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 02:22:23 PM
I think it is misleading and not particularly helpful to portray the North Americans in this discussion as against T&A.
We in NA like T&A - we just like it from
women, rather than underage girls. :D
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 02:22:23 PM
I think it is misleading and not particularly helpful to portray the North Americans in this discussion as against T&A.
We in NA like T&A - we just like it from women, rather than underage girls. :D
That's why I mentioned a retarded provincial
bourgeoise as well. As for T&A in North America this is the way it is (strange nobody mentioned it)
"If you suck on a tit the movie gets an R rating. If you hack the tit off with an axe it will be PG."
Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2014, 10:44:58 AMHooters- Pubs (a little pricier than the norm? but as I understand it they earn their money in essentially the same way as a regular bar) staffed by hot girls with boobies and an average man target audience.
Never been to a hooters or a tilted kilt or any of the places in that conceptual space, but it seems that it's basically "we guarantee that the waitress will be 'hot' and dressed to facilitate ogling". Basically, they take the randomness out of going to a place with a hot waitress (assuming you like the chain's definition of 'hot').
QuoteMaid cafes- Ostensible cafes with extortionate seating charges, aimed at the socially inept, who pay for very very young looking girls in fetish-fuel costumes to pretend to be their slaves.
Not really, I don't think. I went to a maid cafe 7-8 years ago when I went to Japan, and if it's representative of maid cafes there's nothing pervy or "slavery-esque" about it (and it wasn't that expensive either, maybe $10-$15 seating charge, IIRC). There's a definite infantilization vibe going on, but it's as much for the customers as the staff. For example, the girls would come to your table and play board games with you (no, no hex-and-counter ones, more like "Hungry Hungry Hippo"). Everything about the place was to support a pastiche of simple, juvenile glee-like happiness. There was basically zero sexual subtext; it seemed to me that the regulars were harking back to the (possibly imaginary) happiness of and idealized childhood much more than they were there for sexual reasons.
As for "be your slave"; the service wasn't that different than that of any other Japanese establishment with attentive staff once you factored out the gleeful affectations and maid costumes.
... of course, you can combine the two (as the presence of maid themed massage parlours et. al. indicate),
By no means are all Hooters waitresses hott.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2014, 01:40:11 PM
I refuse to go to Hooters, as I find it morally reprehensible to women. It's craven and juvenile.
Ease up there Ide.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 13, 2014, 02:58:25 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 02:22:23 PM
I think it is misleading and not particularly helpful to portray the North Americans in this discussion as against T&A.
We in NA like T&A - we just like it from women, rather than underage girls. :D
That's why I mentioned a retarded provincial bourgeoise as well. As for T&A in North America this is the way it is (strange nobody mentioned it)
"If you suck on a tit the movie gets an R rating. If you hack the tit off with an axe it will be PG."
Again doesn't really seem relevant to the discussion at hand.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 03:02:11 PM
By no means are all Hooters waitresses hott.
How demoralizing.
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 02:22:23 PM
I think it is misleading and not particularly helpful to portray the North Americans in this discussion as against T&A.
We in NA like T&A - we just like it from women, rather than underage girls. :D
That's not even close to true. Britney Spears became a huge star by exploiting the North American hunger for underage T&A.
Quote from: Neil on February 13, 2014, 03:04:55 PMThat's not even close to true. Britney Spears became a huge star by exploiting the North American hunger for underage T&A.
Siegy can give us a whole list of performers who fit in that category.
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 02:48:04 PM
We in NA like T&A - we just like it from women, rather than underage girls. :D
We also make the assumption that every girl who is petite and thin is underage because in our countries that's the way things really are. :P
Quote from: Neil on February 13, 2014, 03:04:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 02:22:23 PM
I think it is misleading and not particularly helpful to portray the North Americans in this discussion as against T&A.
We in NA like T&A - we just like it from women, rather than underage girls. :D
That's not even close to true. Britney Spears became a huge star by exploiting the North American hunger for underage T&A.
Yes, and the adult men who were into an underaged Britney Spears were thought highly of ... :hmm:
There is no question that *some* men here are into underage girls, but it is not socially acceptable. In Japan, apparently, it is.
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 03:43:16 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 13, 2014, 03:04:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 02:22:23 PM
I think it is misleading and not particularly helpful to portray the North Americans in this discussion as against T&A.
We in NA like T&A - we just like it from women, rather than underage girls. :D
That's not even close to true. Britney Spears became a huge star by exploiting the North American hunger for underage T&A.
Yes, and the adult men who were into an underaged Britney Spears were thought highly of ... :hmm:
There is no question that *some* men here are into underage girls, but it is not socially acceptable. In Japan, apparently, it is.
They were certainly tolerated.
I don't think that the otaku are held in high regard in Japan either.
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 03:43:16 PMThere is no question that *some* men here are into underage girls, but it is not socially acceptable. In Japan, apparently, it is.
Depends what you mean by "socially acceptable". I think that dudes who are into that sort of stuff are still thought of as creeps and losers by the majority who are not. But you can still produce, sell, and buy stuff that caters to those tastes.
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 11:27:28 AM
Ok first the whole 'tweeners save the world' plot is not one likely to attract my notice much anyway. Secondly the reason for the all female cast seems suspiciously for pervy reasons (and not even pervy reasons I can appreciate). Thirdly girl power might be great for teenage girls, and those who love teenage girls, but not so much for me. I am sure the characters and story are great, after all this is a show so famous that even I have heard about it, but it has enough creepy imagery to turn me off. Finally I am not even a hater just somebody with zero interest.
Sailor Moon is originally drawn by a female manga artist. As far as fanservice levels go, Sailor Moon is pretty clean.
Quote from: Jacob on February 13, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 03:43:16 PMThere is no question that *some* men here are into underage girls, but it is not socially acceptable. In Japan, apparently, it is.
Depends what you mean by "socially acceptable". I think that dudes who are into that sort of stuff are still thought of as creeps and losers by the majority who are not. But you can still produce, sell, and buy stuff that caters to those tastes.
It is without doubt *more* socially acceptable in Japan, seeing how so much of anime uses that theme, how widespread and popular that anime is, and how open the depictions of pedophilia are in at least some of it.
Speaking of Hooters, I took my son in there a while back. Every damn waitress in the house fawned over him. He got attention, I got spectacular views.
Totally awesome. :cool:
I wonder if the making airplane girls, nation girls, battleship girls etc stems from Japan's more animist leaning traditional religion.
Quote from: Barrister on February 13, 2014, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
My problem with Hooters is I don't know what proper customer behavior is. Are you supposed to perv on the waitresses and make comments to your buddies about their tits, or are you supposed to pretend you're in an Applebees?
I've been in a Hooters once and I found it surreal.
On the other hand, the Bikini Bar I visited in Austin made perfect sense to me.
That's a good point. I have no philosophical objection to Hooters and the like, but generally do not attend for pretty much that reason.
There are a few former coworkers that I have lunch with every so often just to stay in touch. We always go to Hooters or Tilted Kilt (its scottish themed clone). I actually think it is better because the atmosphere stays unprofessional (which is a danger when you are keeping in touch with former colleagues). The waitresses are cute and flirt with you a bit and give the table a topic of conversation. Why not? At least here, the prices are really about the same as any other bar.
No one ever hits on the waitresses or anything like that.
Quote from: Neil on February 13, 2014, 03:04:55 PM
That's not even close to true. Britney Spears became a huge star by exploiting the North American hunger for underage T&A.
Her audience was mostly young and skewed female. I know there are members of many age groups that like underage T&A, but at her concerts I would think that most males were young themselves.
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 04:24:54 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 13, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2014, 03:43:16 PMThere is no question that *some* men here are into underage girls, but it is not socially acceptable. In Japan, apparently, it is.
Depends what you mean by "socially acceptable". I think that dudes who are into that sort of stuff are still thought of as creeps and losers by the majority who are not. But you can still produce, sell, and buy stuff that caters to those tastes.
It is without doubt *more* socially acceptable in Japan, seeing how so much of anime uses that theme, how widespread and popular that anime is, and how open the depictions of pedophilia are in at least some of it.
I'd say that the depictions of cute, underage girls in skimpy clothing is far less a berserk button in Japan than in the west. My impression is that anime fans and otakus aren't highly regarded in Japan either. The difference is that the "we are only talking about fictional characters" argument works in Japan much better than it does in the west. Plenty of people don't like anime in HK, my parents and wife included. But they dislike anime for other reasons and don't seem to have a problem with apparently underage girls, because they are animated fictional characters.
The Runaways might be a better example than Britney Spears. Their European concert audiences in particular were all middle aged guys in raincoats.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 04:37:01 PM
The Runaways might be a better example than Britney Spears. Their European concert audiences in particular were all middle aged guys in raincoats.
Never heard of them, unlike Britney Spears, who had her heyday and fame so on one could escape.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2014, 04:28:48 PM
I wonder if the making airplane girls, nation girls, battleship girls etc stems from Japan's more animist leaning traditional religion.
I know next to nothing about Japanese religion. But I think they make airplane girls based on "our target audience likes military hardware, and cute magical girls. Let's somehow combine the two."
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 13, 2014, 04:26:17 PM
Speaking of Hooters, I took my son in there a while back. Every damn waitress in the house fawned over him. He got attention, I got spectacular views.
Totally awesome. :cool:
Hitler, worse than.
Quote from: The Brain on February 13, 2014, 04:42:56 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 13, 2014, 04:26:17 PM
Speaking of Hooters, I took my son in there a while back. Every damn waitress in the house fawned over him. He got attention, I got spectacular views.
Totally awesome. :cool:
Hitler, worse than.
:cool:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 13, 2014, 04:40:19 PM
Never heard of them, unlike Britney Spears, who had her heyday and fame so on one could escape.
Maybe you've heard of Joan Jett? She started out in The Runaways.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 13, 2014, 04:26:17 PM
Speaking of Hooters, I took my son in there a while back. Every damn waitress in the house fawned over him. He got attention, I got spectacular views.
Totally awesome. :cool:
No Hooters in HK. One, they'd have a real problem with staff recruitment unless they import all waiting staff. Two, and more importantly, it won't be socially acceptable for most people to go to such places. I think a Hooters opened in Vancouver during my stay there. I considered going but decided against it. I would only go alone, and the experience would totally suck as I was pretty sure that the waitresses wouldn't bother with a table of one.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 13, 2014, 02:58:25 PM
That's why I mentioned a retarded provincial bourgeoise as well. As for T&A in North America this is the way it is (strange nobody mentioned it)
"If you suck on a tit the movie gets an R rating. If you hack the tit off with an axe it will be PG."
This is not me at all dude.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 04:44:33 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 13, 2014, 04:40:19 PM
Never heard of them, unlike Britney Spears, who had her heyday and fame so on one could escape.
Maybe you've heard of Joan Jett? She started out in The Runaways.
Indeed, but Joan Jett's audience is not exactly middle-aged guys in raincoats since she was not underage when she did the cover(s) who brought her fame, so I don't see your point.
PS: covers since in Wayne's World 2 it was not exactly the same as the first
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2014, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 13, 2014, 02:58:25 PM
That's why I mentioned a retarded provincial bourgeoise as well. As for T&A in North America this is the way it is (strange nobody mentioned it)
"If you suck on a tit the movie gets an R rating. If you hack the tit off with an axe it will be PG."
This is not me at all dude.
I know, it's Nicholson. :) :hug:
The former reference being Ségolène, I thought it was clear.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 13, 2014, 04:51:34 PM
Indeed, but Joan Jett's audience is not exactly middle-aged guys in raincoats since she was not underage when she did the cover who brought her fame, so I don't see your point.
Well, now imagine a band in which Joan Jett is about 5 years younger, and in which she was the oldest member. And the lead singer performs in her underwear.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2014, 04:28:48 PM
I wonder if the making airplane girls, nation girls, battleship girls etc stems from Japan's more animist leaning traditional religion.
I know next to nothing about Japanese religion. But I think they make airplane girls based on "our target audience likes military hardware, and cute magical girls. Let's somehow combine the two."
I must admit that the detailed and accurate depictions of WWII vessels is one of the major attractions of Strike Witches for me.
Season 2's depiction of the Yamato being escorted by a combined battleline including Bismarck along with several King George V's and Littorios was probably the show's high point for me. :Embarrass:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 04:57:12 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 13, 2014, 04:51:34 PM
Indeed, but Joan Jett's audience is not exactly middle-aged guys in raincoats since she was not underage when she did the cover who brought her fame, so I don't see your point.
Well, now imagine a band in which Joan Jett is about 5 years younger, and in which she was the oldest member. And the lead singer performs in her underwear.
I still don't see the link with Captain Harlock, Grendizer or even Candy, Candy.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 13, 2014, 04:58:44 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2014, 04:28:48 PM
I wonder if the making airplane girls, nation girls, battleship girls etc stems from Japan's more animist leaning traditional religion.
I know next to nothing about Japanese religion. But I think they make airplane girls based on "our target audience likes military hardware, and cute magical girls. Let's somehow combine the two."
I must admit that the detailed and accurate depictions of WWII vessels is one of the major attractions of Strike Witches for me.
Season 2's depiction of the Yamato being escorted by a combined battleline including Bismarck along with several King George V's and Littorios was probably the show's high point for me. :Embarrass:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgifrific.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2FStephon-Marbury-Angry-Stare.gif&hash=ba291dbc518443c50b77707d648dfd0d4aeb11dc)
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2014, 04:28:48 PM
I wonder if the making airplane girls, nation girls, battleship girls etc stems from Japan's more animist leaning traditional religion.
From genius loci to Uncle Sam, we do have quite a tradition of antropomorphication in the West.
John Bull and Uncle Sam aren't hott though. :(
Quote from: Agelastus on February 13, 2014, 04:58:44 PM
I must admit that the detailed and accurate depictions of WWII vessels is one of the major attractions of Strike Witches for me.
Season 2's depiction of the Yamato being escorted by a combined battleline including Bismarck along with several King George V's and Littorios was probably the show's high point for me. :Embarrass:
I think there is also the merchandise angle of why these shows are made. Anime themselves don't make money. They rely on merchandise sales for profit. There are cute moe girl figures on sale everywhere. Combining them with military hardware is far less common. Also, powerful heroines with military hardware appeals to a larger demographic, as both males and females find something in them. Strike Witches is surprisingly popular among females from what I've read.
For me, the best moments in Strike Witches are the comraderie. Scenes that I won't forget include (minor spoilers ahead) Erica tidying up her room as a consolation prize for Gertrud after failing to get the autograph for her friend's little sister. Gertrud complaining loudly to her superior officer about the necessity of going on a patrol. Erica then reminded her that Yoshika would be passing by the area. Cut to Gertrud fully loaded and screaming to launch.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 13, 2014, 05:11:03 PM
John Bull and Uncle Sam aren't hott though. :(
Wasn't Britannia quite hot?
And we got femenine anthropomorfications battling evil in our media too :lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbasementrejects.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Fghostbusters-ii-statue-of-liberty.jpg&hash=df413f5bdde071851c61934aa75ad7d0eab5a20c)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 04:37:01 PM
The Runaways might be a better example than Britney Spears. Their European concert audiences in particular were all middle aged guys in raincoats.
Who?
Quote from: celedhring on February 13, 2014, 05:18:02 PM
Wasn't Britannia quite hot?
And we got ladies battling evil in our media too.
Lady liberty is very unhot. Which is weird since the French designed her. But she is not really a character. She is like a mascot.
Anyway yes we do personify things, that is a tradition from Greece and Rome and all that. However that is mostly official and symbolic and all that and often involves animals as well (from standards and chivalry and all that). We do this with everything, especially US sports teams. But that is not quite the same thing as what Raz is referring to, though similar.
The French modeled her after a French mom. She does in fact look like a battleaxe.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 13, 2014, 05:11:03 PM
John Bull and Uncle Sam aren't hott though. :(
Britannia and Columbia weren't bad. None are as hot as Marianne, who over the years has been modelled by Brigitte Bardot, Catherine Deneuve and Laetitia Casta :lol:
Marianne is totally hott.
Quote from: alfred russel on February 13, 2014, 04:34:10 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 13, 2014, 03:04:55 PM
That's not even close to true. Britney Spears became a huge star by exploiting the North American hunger for underage T&A.
Her audience was mostly young and skewed female. I know there are members of many age groups that like underage T&A, but at her concerts I would think that most males were young themselves.
And gay.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs24.postimg.org%2Fxbs3xvgm9%2Fdeathstar_moe.jpg&hash=404250dc8aec10eedd49d28bbf32c7e69851d155) (http://postimg.org/image/xbs3xvgm9/)
:lol:
Is that from an actual show?
I remember doing a Google search for Dornier Do 335 (IIRC) and coming across some horrid anime drawing of some chick having sex with a Luftwaffe plane.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 12, 2014, 10:00:13 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 12, 2014, 09:47:01 PM
I wasn't keen on the style but I will give it a couple more episodes. We've all our own fandoms and I've been rewatching Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes, so only 36 hours to go :blush:
Episode 2 is probably the weakest link in the series. Don't give up at that point :ph34r:
I spoke to my flatmate who's a Japanese translator and he said that the animation is always like that and looks a bit cheap. But don't judge for four episodes :mellow:
So I'll give it four :)
Quote from: derspiess on February 13, 2014, 07:59:13 PM
I remember doing a Google search for Dornier Do 335 (IIRC) and coming across some horrid anime drawing of some chick having sex with a Luftwaffe plane.
Penis: erect
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2014, 08:01:56 PM
I spoke to my flatmate who's a Japanese translator and he said that the animation is always like that and looks a bit cheap. But don't judge for four episodes :mellow:
So I'll give it four :)
Madoka Magica runs on a mid level budget. It isn't cheap by any means; there are plenty of shows that are below it. If quality of animation is what stops you from finishing it, then just watch the two compilation movies, which are essentially the same story with vastly improved graphics. The TV series has better suspense however.
Madoka Movie 3 Rebellion Story has some of the best visuals ever produced.
I am not worried however. Some people stop at episode 1. Some stop at episode 2. These two episodes took me like a week. Few people stop at 4.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 07:21:29 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs24.postimg.org%2Fxbs3xvgm9%2Fdeathstar_moe.jpg&hash=404250dc8aec10eedd49d28bbf32c7e69851d155) (http://postimg.org/image/xbs3xvgm9/)
So the Death Star from Return of the Jedi would be the fanservice version with the panties showing?
If you are into stylish designs and visuals, Bakemonogatari is not a bad choice -
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs24.postimg.org%2F3lnv1zild%2FBakemonogatari.jpg&hash=5ae5ad551e51ad19fbcf31c2d0ee56794c47c410) (http://postimg.org/image/3lnv1zild/)
Madoka Magica is Shaft/Shinbo's best selling title. Bakemonogatari follows behind. This one showcases the signature Shaft/Shinbo geometric visuals and too-fast-to-read text better. Madoka is more toned down on that aspect. Both series feature Chiwa Saito as one of the lead voice actresses.
It is based on a best-selling novel. A series of short stories about a male lead teaming up with various females to solve their problems, which are often associated with myths and ghosts. The source material is very dialogue heavy, with little action. One of the selling points of the anime is the techniques used to turn an otherwise boring story into a visually appealing one, even with the absence of much action. 53 episodes (so far), excluding the 3 summary ones.
My flatmate also recommended Evangelion, Samurai Chombla (or something like it, the last word means 'mash-up' named after an Okinawan food and the hip hop influences) and something else I've forgotten. Thoughts?
Edit: Also how many episodes of Madoka. The site I'm using has 12 and 3 movies. Is that right?
I wonder what the fanservice illustration is for a motherfucking B-29 from Operation Meetinghouse.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 05:24:51 PM
The French modeled her after a French mom.
Did they intend the base to be inscribed with "One Weird Tip"?
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2014, 09:01:50 PM
My flatmate also recommended Evangelion, Samurai Chombla (or something like it, the last word means 'mash-up' named after an Okinawan food and the hip hop influences) and something else I've forgotten. Thoughts?
Edit: Also how many episodes of Madoka. The site I'm using has 12 and 3 movies. Is that right?
12 episodes and 3 movies is correct. Movie 1 (Beginning Story) is a summary of ep. 1-8. Movie 2 (Eternal Story) is a summary of ep. 9-12. Movie 3 (Rebellion Story) is a sequel. Only the camera-rip of movie 3 is available right now. The blu-ray will come out on 2 April 2014.
Never heard of Samurai Chombla.
Neon Genesis Evangelion – One of the most famous and divisive anime shows in existence. Some consider this the holy grail of mecha shows and a new standard in story-telling. Others say it is an unfinished mind-screw made by monkeys on drugs. There is probably a bit of truth in both extremes. The show is packed with memorable characters, iconic scenes, nightmare inducing explicit material, psychological analysis, religious symbolism, and unresolved plot points. Madoka is very clean and has very little on-screen blood. Evangelion was what made the Japanese finally impose some degree of censorship on prime time. It is a love-it or hate-it show. Personally, I like Madoka a lot more, because it has a resolved plot.
There are multiple different official versions of Eva floating around, with at least 3 alternative continuities that are mutually incompatible.
So when will Mono stop preaching? :hmm:
Mono's turning Japanese, yes, I think he's turning Japanese, I really think so.
I've looked it up, Samurai Champloo.
The 3 versions of Eva are like this.
In the mid-90s, they made a TV series with 26 episodes. Made a real impact. But let's just say that the ending is...unconventional. I am being *very* generous here. Fans sent death letters to the director, etc.
So a year or two later, he made some movies to give an alternative ending. Then he made further changes to these movies. If you are new to the show, all you really need to know is that there are 26 original episodes, 4 director's cut episodes that replace ep. 21-24 (with additional material), a movie called Death (True) 2 that is a summary of episodes 1-24, another movie called End of Evangelion which provides an alternative version to the original ep 25 and 26.
10 years later, the director formed his own company, and decided to do a remake of his own show. 4 movies called Rebuild of Evangelion. They have odd titles -
Movie 1: You are (not) alone. Basically a retelling of the original ep1-6.
Movie 2: You can (not) advance. Retells ep 8-19, but this time with significant plot changes.
Movie 3: You can (not) redo. Diverges from the original anime series, going toward a new direction.
Movie 4: not yet released.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2014, 09:17:48 PM
Mono's turning Japanese, yes, I think he's turning Japanese, I really think so.
I wish I understand Japanese and don't need to rely on subtitles :blush:
Seedy's pop culture reference falls flat. :(
I got it bro, I got it.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 13, 2014, 09:43:11 PM
Seedy's pop culture reference falls flat. :(
I got it bro, I got it.
Needs to be re-done with anime accompaniment.
Squee.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 13, 2014, 09:43:11 PM
Seedy's pop culture reference falls flat. :(
I got it bro, I got it.
I bet most of us got it. It's just Mono's idea of rock music is something like a Korean version of the Spice Girls.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2014, 09:01:50 PM
My flatmate also recommended Evangelion, Samurai Chombla
Evangelion is massively overrated. Samurai Champloo is great, as is Cowboy Beebop, which was made by the same folks.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 13, 2014, 10:08:28 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2014, 09:01:50 PM
My flatmate also recommended Evangelion, Samurai Chombla
Evangelion is massively overrated. Samurai Champloo is great, as is Cowboy Beebop, which was made by the same folks.
Cowboy Beebop is the other one he recommended.
He said Evangelion was like Madoka in that they're both sort of deconstructions of traditional genres (mecha and magic girls). I'll see.
I think all anime fans should give Eva a chance. Agree that it is not everybody's cup of tea (it certainly isn't mine). Having watched it, I think there are valid reasons why it is commonly considered a masterpiece.
Don't have the time to watch Cowboy Bebop yet. Has been sittig on my harddrive forever. It is most famous for its use of Jazz music, composed by the legendary Yoko Kanno. That's all I know.
First time I've ever heard of Samurai Champloo. I will try it out :)
I've seen Cowboy Bebop.
Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2014, 10:22:07 PM
I've seen Cowboy Bebop.
So you do watch anime ;) Anything that you can recommend to us?
I don't rate samurai champloo. It has one or two fun episodes but is generally rather meh stuff for teenage boys.
Cowboy bebop is fantastic. And yes. Best known in japan for its music, the composer is famous but nobody knows the anime.
Evangelism starts great then gets rather weird. But still ok.
I've tried Madoka but it just doesn't hook me.
I watched Star Blazers as a kid.
And Voltron. And Robotech too.
Quote from: Berkut on February 13, 2014, 02:29:59 PMI like me some tits as much as any man, and moreso than most.
But here's the thing - tits are pretty easy to find, at least from the standpoint of finding some to look at, whether on film or tv.
Excellent filmmaking? That is much, MUCH more rare.
Which is why I like some gratuitous T&A in my Game of Thrones, but a little bit goes a long way - over the top tits where they dominate the scene annoy's me greatly, because I cannot help but be jealous of every minute of screen time.
I would say that it depends on the show. In a serious character drama gratuitous and unnecessary T&A can be rather detrimental to the experience. In a comedy, or OTT action romp it can work much better. There's exceptions to both, obviously.
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 13, 2014, 11:05:11 PM
I watched Star Blazers as a kid.
And Voltron. And Robotech too.
I was a big Captain Future fan.
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 13, 2014, 11:05:11 PM
I watched Star Blazers as a kid.
And Voltron. And Robotech too.
Oh, and this one too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVkueSuO-GU
Quote from: Monoriu on February 13, 2014, 10:17:31 PM
I think all anime fans should give Eva a chance. Agree that it is not everybody's cup of tea (it certainly isn't mine). Having watched it, I think there are valid reasons why it is commonly considered a masterpiece.
Don't have the time to watch Cowboy Bebop yet. Has been sittig on my harddrive forever. It is most famous for its use of Jazz music, composed by the legendary Yoko Kanno. That's all I know.
First time I've ever heard of Samurai Champloo. I will try it out :)
I loved Cowboy Bebop in a purely sensorial level. Fantastic music, fantastic animation. The storylines never did much for me, though.
Quote from: Syt on February 13, 2014, 11:06:57 PM
I was a big Captain Future fan.
The German soundtrack actually helped - they composed a completely new score for the show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ8H2csE9bU
Besides Yoko Kanno's music, there is another reason why I'm interested in Cowboy Bebop. I am a fan of Megumi Hayashibara, one of the best seiyuus Japan has ever produced, and she is in Cowboy Bebop.
Interesting.
Even my English speaking Japanese fans agree CB is a rare example of an anime where the dub is better.
Quote from: Tyr on February 14, 2014, 04:31:11 AM
Interesting.
Even my English speaking Japanese fans agree CB is a rare example of an anime where the dub is better.
I gave up on dubs 20 years ago. I grew up listening to Cantonese dubs of Japanese anime. When I was in Canada, I was cut off from these Cantonese dubs and had to rely on video tapes. Those came with Chinese subtitles only. I was pleasantly surprised that, even though I couldn't understand a single word of what the Japanese voice cast was saying, their performance conveyed the emotions of the scenes infinitely better than the Cantonese dubs. Never looked back. No idea about the quality of English dubs.
The first anime I remember watching was "Ulysses 31" when I was 4 or 5 years old. I have great memories of it. Might have to rewatch it some time to see how it holds up; I remember the imagery of a futuristic retelling of Greek mythology being amazing and the show scaring the shit out of me when I was little.
The thing I remember the most is their starship. It looked boss.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alvarezperea.com%2Fulysses31%2Fnave_main.jpg&hash=34e2f3c654029b2efab9d1930ef905ca74cd543f)
Quote from: Monoriu on February 14, 2014, 04:39:22 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 14, 2014, 04:31:11 AM
Interesting.
Even my English speaking Japanese fans agree CB is a rare example of an anime where the dub is better.
I gave up on dubs 20 years ago. I grew up listening to Cantonese dubs of Japanese anime. When I was in Canada, I was cut off from these Cantonese dubs and had to rely on video tapes. Those came with Chinese subtitles only. I was pleasantly surprised that, even though I couldn't understand a single word of what the Japanese voice cast was saying, their performance conveyed the emotions of the scenes infinitely better than the Cantonese dubs. Never looked back. No idea about the quality of English dubs.
They are generally horrible.
Even beyond a much cheaper voice cast theres a large amount of Americanization too. To my non American ears there's a big disconnect between this being something from one foreign place but with artificial aspects of another foreign place. There was a British dub of invader lum once which was awesome.
Seriously though cowboy bebop does buck the usual trend.
I was into anime in the days before broadband (before many people were. Now so damn many kids are...) so I had to take what I could get and that was usually dubs. How did you avoid them 20 years back? I guess HK gets more anime than the uk did?
I also had a similar but worse dub problem with Hong Kong movies in those pre DVD times
My first two anime shows were Gundam 0079 (the original one) and Queen Millennia, when I was 5 or 6. Both are very serious, even depressing shows, with on-screen deaths left and right. Queen Millennia was particularly bad. (spoilers ahead) The protagonist (a kid only a few years older than the then me) lost his parents to an explosion right in front of him in episode 1. Yes they were killed off for real. Episode 2 was about him listening to a recording of his father's last words. Then, for the next 42 episodes, there was a constant threat of the end of humanity. Then the title character died. Gundam was not much better. Colony drops, nazi-style uniforms and speeches, deaths in the billions, deaths of named characters every 2-3 episodes or so, destruction of entire colonies shown in graphic detail, shots through the head shown clearly on screen with no room for any other interpretation. I think the death rate of all the named characters is like 50%. From the very beginning my experience with anime is that these are serious affairs, perhaps even more cruel than the live-action TV drama.
Imagine my reaction when I was told by some adults that anime was all about cute girls, teddy bears, helpful mascots and kiddie stuff.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 13, 2014, 10:08:28 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2014, 09:01:50 PM
My flatmate also recommended Evangelion, Samurai Chombla
Evangelion is massively overrated. Samurai Champloo is great, as is Cowboy Beebop, which was made by the same folks.
Those three are part of the very few anime I've watched and by far the bigger names. :lol:
Evangelion starts super cool, giant robots fighting giant monsters, what's not to love? There's also a certain mystique around it, some mystical background, and then in the final third of the show it gets...really weird. I read somewhere that the author has some kind of mental issues and the producers thought that when he was off his meds he wrote better stuff and that when he was medicated he was way too tame for their tastes, so they made him go cold turkey on his meds and that's when he wrote the final episodes, which are totally and completely unhinged. I mean, one of them is just a black screen for most of the episode, with characters talking off screen inside the mind of the main one.
Cowboy Bebop is great, space opera adventures with kick ass music. It has a "serious" storyline but I enjoyed the one-shot adventures much more.
Samurai Shamploo is a samurai show with contemporary urban stuff jammed into it, like hip hop and grafitti artists and so on. Cool swordfighting and light humour.
The good thing about those three is that they're relatively short, so they can be taken on easily. They're not monster sagas like Dragon Ball or One Piece.
Quote from: Tyr on February 14, 2014, 05:21:46 AM
I was into anime in the days before broadband (before many people were. Now so damn many kids are...) so I had to take what I could get and that was usually dubs. How did you avoid them 20 years back? I guess HK gets more anime than the uk did?
I also had a similar but worse dub problem with Hong Kong movies in those pre DVD times
Ever since my early childhood days, the HK TV networks broadcast anime. I think there were around 2 shows every day back then. These were dubbed in Cantonese. There were more during the weekends. I just recorded them for future viewing. When I moved to Canada I rented tapes that were subtitled.
Quote from: The Larch on February 14, 2014, 05:42:31 AM
Evangelion starts super cool, giant robots fighting giant monsters, what's not to love? There's also a certain mystique around it, some mystical background, and then in the final third of the show it gets...really weird. I read somewhere that the author has some kind of mental issues and the producers thought that when he was off his meds he wrote better stuff and that when he was medicated he was way too tame for their tastes, so they made him go cold turkey on his meds and that's when he wrote the final episodes, which are totally and completely unhinged. I mean, one of them is just a black screen for most of the episode, with characters talking off screen inside the mind of the main one.
Another version I read is that Eva was made on a very tight budget. They ran out of money for the last two episodes.
Major spoiler of the original ending of Eva ahead. Don't read if you plan to watch Eva.
You have been warned.
A Star War analogy would be, when Luke enters the Emperor's throne room in Return of the Jedi, the screen cuts to black. Different characters appear inside Luke's head, and talk about his psychological problems, his traumatic childhood, his relationships with other characters, his love history etc. After doing this for like half an hour, Luke would suddenly imagine a galaxy where all his buddies and himself would go to school happily. He suddenly got the idea that this was a possibility that he should work toward. Then all the characters, including Darth Vader, Palpatine, Han Solo, Leia etc came out of no where to give him a round of applause and congratulate him on finally figuring this genius plan out.
End.
No need to tell the audience what happened to the death star, the space battle between the rebel and imperial fleets, no mention of the Ewoks. Just an ending like that.
Yeah, I remember that ending. Pissed me off so much, makes the Sopranos finale look great in comparison.
Loved Evangelion otherwise. The monster design was so unique at the time. And yeah, the mystique was intriguing (but unfulfilled for the most part).
Quote from: Syt on February 14, 2014, 04:11:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 13, 2014, 11:06:57 PM
I was a big Captain Future fan.
The German soundtrack actually helped - they composed a completely new score for the show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ8H2csE9bU
Known in French-speaking countries as Capitaine Flam, and yes composing a new score was often done as well, though parts of the original funky score could be found in the show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4-89PqmsOU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4-89PqmsOU)
PS: As for Ulysses 31, this is an interesting case. The animation is Japanese but the scenario and character design is European, French to be precise since there was Jean Chalopin and René Borg behind who wanted for instance the characters to properly animated at 24 fps (anima = soul).
Both are immensely popular among the over 30 crowd nowadays.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 14, 2014, 06:26:40 AM
PS: As for Ulysses 31, this is an interesting case. The animation is Japanese but the scenario and character design is European, French to be precise since there was Jean Chalopin and René Borg behind who wanted for instance the characters to properly animated at 24 fps (anima = soul).
Both are immensely popular among the over 30 crowd nowadays.
I guess that's because of Daft Punk's "One More Time"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGBhQbmPwH8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGBhQbmPwH8)
Quote from: The Larch on February 14, 2014, 06:29:48 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 14, 2014, 06:26:40 AM
PS: As for Ulysses 31, this is an interesting case. The animation is Japanese but the scenario and character design is European, French to be precise since there was Jean Chalopin and René Borg behind who wanted for instance the characters to properly animated at 24 fps (anima = soul).
Both are immensely popular among the over 30 crowd nowadays.
I guess that's because of Daft Punk's "One More Time"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGBhQbmPwH8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGBhQbmPwH8)
The other way around. ;) One more Time is a reference to Captain Harlock a.k.a Albator, well anything Leiji Matsumoto who supervised Interstella 5555 anyways. Daft Punk is just part of that over 30 crowd.
Wasn't Ulysses 31 the show that ripped off John Williams' "Battle in the Snow" score from Empire Strikes Back?