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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 04:04:12 PM

Title: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 04:04:12 PM
So there's that.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2013, 04:04:58 PM
 :(
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: derspiess on November 18, 2013, 04:06:10 PM
That sucks.  Shitty time of the year, at that.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 18, 2013, 04:06:14 PM
 :(
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 04:07:06 PM
No clue what we are going to do.  Kinda taken by surprise.  His birthday is on Wednesday.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on November 18, 2013, 04:07:42 PM
Maybe you should find employment.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Caliga on November 18, 2013, 05:21:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 04:07:06 PM
No clue what we are going to do.  Kinda taken by surprise.  His birthday is on Wednesday.
Anybody can lose their job at any time, unfortunately.  That's why I always stay in touch with recruiters, former bosses, co-workers, etc.  Hopefully your dad had made a point of doing that?
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Valmy on November 18, 2013, 05:26:02 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 18, 2013, 05:21:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 04:07:06 PM
No clue what we are going to do.  Kinda taken by surprise.  His birthday is on Wednesday.
Anybody can lose their job at any time, unfortunately.  That's why I always stay in touch with recruiters, former bosses, co-workers, etc.  Hopefully your dad had made a point of doing that?

Always Be Networking

My God I have a hard enough time staying in touch with people I actually like.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Caliga on November 18, 2013, 05:28:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 18, 2013, 05:26:02 PM
Always Be Networking

My God I have a hard enough time staying in touch with people I actually like.
Yeah.  Honestly I typically don't like to do it, but you just have to these days.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Barrister on November 18, 2013, 05:33:13 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 18, 2013, 05:28:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 18, 2013, 05:26:02 PM
Always Be Networking

My God I have a hard enough time staying in touch with people I actually like.
Yeah.  Honestly I typically don't like to do it, but you just have to these days.

How much effort are we talking?

I'll fire off an email every year or two to a few people to see how they're doing, but that's about it.  Mind you the Alberta criminal bar is pretty small, so it's not as if I don't run into those people anyways...
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Josquius on November 18, 2013, 06:03:53 PM
You guys need to start subsidence farming. It seems to be what the future holds so better get it on the ground floor.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: mongers on November 18, 2013, 06:19:30 PM
Shareholder Value FTW:

Quote
US stocks dip after Dow hits 16,000

US markets have been enjoying record high levels

The US Dow Jones index broke through the 16,000 level for the first time on Monday before giving up some of the gains in late trade.

At one point the Dow touched 16,030.28, but it ended 14 points up on the day at 15,976.

The S&P 500 index rose above 1,800 for the first time, before a late sell-off pushed it down 6.65 points to 1,791.53.

Stocks have been buoyed by hopes that the US central bank will continue with its economic stimulus programme.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24992558 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24992558)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F70413000%2Fjpg%2F_70413511_183973504.jpg&hash=fae47483466614cd3ee1c84ec98e68c1a6003858)

Do you think he considers the welfare of the workers in the firms stocks he trades ?



Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2013, 06:31:59 PM
Exactly as much as those workers think about him.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: mongers on November 18, 2013, 06:34:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2013, 06:31:59 PM
Exactly as much as those workers think about him.

It's not a reciprocal relationship, workers can't affect his government welfare, whereas his trades can affect the future and direction of the company employing the workers. 
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2013, 06:50:04 PM
You're spouting nonsense, but i think it's disrespectful to shit on Raz' thread.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 07:27:58 PM
Actually his bosses have been complaining that he has been in that position to long.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: mongers on November 18, 2013, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 07:27:58 PM
Actually his bosses have been complaining that he has been in that position to long.

:(

Time the bosses were sacked ?
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Ed Anger on November 18, 2013, 07:30:53 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 07:27:58 PM
Actually his bosses have been complaining that he has been in that position to long.

He might want to look into an age complaint with the EEOC then.

http://www.eeoc.gov/employees/charge.cfm
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 07:39:13 PM
That's what we were wondering.  He may consult a lawyer, but knowing my dad, he may not.  He's a pretty passive guy.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Ed Anger on November 18, 2013, 07:42:21 PM
Since he is passive, remind him to grab every benefit available to him. He's paid taxes all this time so it's his time to grab everything not nailed down.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Capetan Mihali on November 18, 2013, 07:48:34 PM
Shit, Raz.  :(  How's your mom getting along with your dad/the family?  Is she working?  Is your brother still drinking away his wages, or is he likely to be able to contribute at some point?
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on November 18, 2013, 07:52:59 PM
Sorry Raz. :(

Given the job market and his age, lawyering up might be wise. What field does he work in?
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Valmy on November 18, 2013, 08:15:20 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2013, 06:31:59 PM
Exactly as much as those workers think about him.

Nonsense.  In these days of 401Ks lots of workers want him to do well.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Ideologue on November 18, 2013, 08:18:12 PM
Sorry Raz.  Is there SS in his near future, at least? :unsure:
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 09:15:19 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 18, 2013, 07:48:34 PM
Shit, Raz.  :(  How's your mom getting along with your dad/the family?  Is she working?  Is your brother still drinking away his wages, or is he likely to be able to contribute at some point?

Mother still taking classes online, brother still an abusive drunk.  We'll probably lose the house. Hopefully we'll have somewhere to live after that.  The big problem is health insurance, he's on a lot of meds from several brushes with death.  Heart attacks, diabetes, flesh eating bacteria (no seriously).

He is (was) a computer programer.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 18, 2013, 08:18:12 PM
Sorry Raz.  Is there SS in his near future, at least? :unsure:

I don't know, I don't think he can even fit in his old uniform, besides the old ODESSA network is pretty slim these days.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Ed Anger on November 18, 2013, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 18, 2013, 08:18:12 PM
Sorry Raz.  Is there SS in his near future, at least? :unsure:

I don't know, I don't think he can even fit in his old uniform, besides the old ODESSA network is pretty slim these days.

:lol:
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 18, 2013, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 09:15:19 PM
He is (was) a computer programer.

It may not be at the wages he once had, but I don't think he'll have a problem finding a job.

Unless he's been doing it all this time without getting any industrial certifications because he didn't need them as he's worked with the technology since it came into existence, like somebody else I know.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Neil on November 18, 2013, 09:36:59 PM
Bummer.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Grey Fox on November 18, 2013, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 18, 2013, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 09:15:19 PM
He is (was) a computer programer.

It may not be at the wages he once had, but I don't think he'll have a problem finding a job.

Unless he's been doing it all this time without getting any industrial certifications because he didn't need them as he's worked with the technology since it came into existence, like somebody else I know.

http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 18, 2013, 09:39:16 PM
I'm going to develop an Android app that bans smartasses without having to log in as a mod.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Grey Fox on November 18, 2013, 09:48:29 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 18, 2013, 09:39:16 PM
I'm going to develop an Android app that bans smartasses without having to log in as a mod.

Well, not you obviously but his dad could develop a drawing app for tooddlers with google ads & he might be able to not lose his home.

Do you know how many ads my daughter clicks on everytime she plays a game?
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Ideologue on November 18, 2013, 11:28:22 PM
"Hey, everybody!  Be a self-employed entrepreneur!  It's the French-Canadian way!  Even the word is French!"

That said, I guess it's not the worst idea.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Syt on November 19, 2013, 12:17:28 AM
Sorry to hear, Raz. I hope things will look up soon. :console:
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 19, 2013, 12:18:46 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 18, 2013, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2013, 09:15:19 PM
He is (was) a computer programer.

It may not be at the wages he once had, but I don't think he'll have a problem finding a job.

Unless he's been doing it all this time without getting any industrial certifications because he didn't need them as he's worked with the technology since it came into existence, like somebody else I know.

That's exactly what he did.  In fact, he worked in programing on mainframes and never really learned PC stuff.  He knows thing like COBOL.  He was just a clerk working for the state of Missouri when they asked if he'd like to be a programer.  He said, "sure, why not?"  This was 1983.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 19, 2013, 01:01:15 AM
Uh oh, mainframes. If it's any consolation, I was called by a recruiter if I had any experience with mainframes and terminal emulation;  still plenty of them (read: government) out there.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Zanza on November 19, 2013, 01:06:28 AM
Mainframe programming and COBOL are actually quite in demand skills. Lots of stuff that needs zero downtime or high security is still running on mainframes, like core banking or air control or so.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: fhdz on November 19, 2013, 01:08:24 AM
Raz, I'm sorry to hear it. :(
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: DGuller on November 19, 2013, 01:36:46 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 19, 2013, 01:01:15 AM
Uh oh, mainframes. If it's any consolation, I was called by a recruiter if I had any experience with mainframes and terminal emulation;  still plenty of them (read: government) out there.
I work on mainframe every day. :unsure:
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 19, 2013, 02:23:27 AM
My dad is taking it surprisingly well.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 19, 2013, 03:05:43 AM
No slutpack?
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Tamas on November 19, 2013, 05:35:20 AM
Experience with mainframes doesn`t sound hopeless, especially in such a huge country, if you are able/willing to move for a job I guess.

I am sorry Raz, in your family`s situation this must be really tough. Have you considered finding an employment? Even if you need to/decide to give it up later, or never find any, due to your issues, it may mean a lot for your Dad in this situation that he sees you going out of your way to help the situation.

P.S. My dad`s birthday is also on Wednesday :)
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 19, 2013, 05:38:33 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 19, 2013, 05:35:20 AM
Experience with mainframes doesn`t sound hopeless, especially in such a huge country, if you are able/willing to move for a job I guess.

Yeah, that's the kicker. Probably not a lot a lot of jobs in Jefferson City.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Caliga on November 19, 2013, 06:00:36 AM
Quote from: Zanza on November 19, 2013, 01:06:28 AM
Mainframe programming and COBOL are actually quite in demand skills. Lots of stuff that needs zero downtime or high security is still running on mainframes, like core banking or air control or so.
:yes:
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on November 19, 2013, 07:51:09 AM
Yup, at least in my little slice of Fedland if you are a mainframe programmer there is an automatic adjustment (upward) to your baseline pay when you're hired on. So if a job opening is for a certain programmer classification, but you're expected to do mainframe programming, it automatically has an adjusted payscale versus one that doesn't. It's a very in demand skill.

What happened with mainframes is by and large they (and the lesser mentioned mid-range machines) were basically all of the computing industry at one point. If you were a programmer you worked on those machines, period. When that changed, it went from being a skill that everyone doing programming needed to one that sort of segmented you out from the faster growing fields in doing desktop development. But honestly mainframes aren't going anywhere, IBM got scared shitless that was happening and in the early 1990s had mostly already gotten deep into their turn into services and other offerings because they were afraid of being tied to mainframes. But the reality is the development of powerful servers, workstations, desktops etc has not replaced mainframes. Corporations still tend to buy them, and they aren't going anywhere. At this point even IBM (which for years predicted a decline publicly) is saying they don't expect their mainframe business to go anywhere, although they do expect cyclical declines/increases in sales.

A lot of people I work with assume the mainframe systems we (as users) work on every day are running on ancient hardware. The reality is, while parts of the code base date back to the 60s I know (as I was involved in the purchasing decisions) the mainframe itself is from the IBM z9 range, it's a relatively new (2000s) era machine. I think part of the perception that these are old machines is the limited color and such on the display when you log in for a terminal session, but that's solely configuration choices and the system looks like it's from the 70s because they're afraid the people who have actually worked on it since the 70s would fall over dead if you added too much color to a menu or etc.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: DGuller on November 19, 2013, 08:27:52 AM
It also does this because it has to be ridiculously backwards-compatible.  Which is a greatly limiting factor for some of the fancier things you can do with computers.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Grey Fox on November 19, 2013, 08:33:29 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 18, 2013, 11:28:22 PM
"Hey, everybody!  Be a self-employed entrepreneur!  It's the French-Canadian way!  Even the word is French!"

That said, I guess it's not the worst idea.

It's a 15min commintment for a seasoned programmer. You & me are fucked, yes.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Zanza on November 19, 2013, 08:39:55 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 19, 2013, 08:27:52 AM
It also does this because it has to be ridiculously backwards-compatible.  Which is a greatly limiting factor for some of the fancier things you can do with computers.
Not necessarily. You can run very modern architectures on a mainframe.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: KRonn on November 19, 2013, 08:47:28 AM
I started out working with and programming on IBM mainframe type computers. The company I'm with now transitioned to a network/server system and I went along with it. Big change but those of us who were into the mainframes just learned/trained and worked with the newer systems. The transition wasn't that difficult and in fact I like it better, mainly due to the fact that we aren't writing the code now, not like we used to. We use and maintain vendor software which I thought would cost jobs but the support of so many different medical systems, hardware and servers requires a lot of IT support. The change over was years ago and I'm so accustomed to how things are now that I'd probably have some difficulty going to a mainframe. Though I'm application support, not writing code, so I could do that kind of support for any system.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on November 19, 2013, 09:06:52 AM
We bought a house on Smith Mountain Lake a couple years ago, and we have a neighbor there who lives on the lake full time and retired at 62. He got hired by whatever the local gas utility was/is in southern West Virginia as a guy who would read these paper gas charts that came in from the field and then plugged the numbers into a formula that you found in a manual (and varied based on I believe pressure/temperature) and then sent the results off to the billing department. He got the job at 18 right out of High School as it was basically a "can you read? can you do basic math?" sort of job. I think he said this was in the mid-late 60s. By the early 70s they basically said "hey, Jack has a good head for things, maybe he can work on this mainframe we just bought" and he was basically a computer programmer from that point forward. Eventually he actually was put in charge of writing from scratch the system that allowed for old school modem style connections between the central office and large industrial gas meters in the field for 5-6 States where the company operated. While he's said there are off the shelf solutions for this now, in his day he was basically doing everything from scratch, the only thing he didn't do himself was design the modem protocols which obviously already existed. I think he retired as a VP or something of the company, without having ever gone to college or received any formal IT training.

I can't really blame him, he had a decent paying job right out of High School and a very good paying job a few years later...I don't see how he could have justified taking four years out of his career to go to school. I'm not sure how wealthy he is, but I know based on property records he bought his house for $650k in 2008 so he had to have done fairly well for himself in his career pre-retirement.

It's hard to believe if he had lost his job in say, his 40s, with 20+ years of experience at that point he wouldn't have been able to find work just because he didn't have a degree.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: KRonn on November 19, 2013, 09:21:43 AM
Raz, sorry to hear about your dad losing his job. I think it's toughest when it first happens as it's a bit of a shock. But he has skills that are in some demand. I went through similar a while ago with similar type mainframe skills though not with COBOL, another prog language. There were a lot of unemployed people at the time (early 90s) so I had competition but things worked out ok, just took time. Best of luck to your dad and family in getting through this.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 19, 2013, 09:29:23 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on November 19, 2013, 09:06:52 AM
It's hard to believe if he had lost his job in say, his 40s, with 20+ years of experience at that point he wouldn't have been able to find work just because he didn't have a degree.

No, it's not.  Dozens like him at my previous power company have all been getting shitcanned the last 18 months.  One of the senior directors in compliance, a former navy man who'd been with the company since the late 70's is in for a real treat, considering he doesn't have a single college credit under his belt.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Sheilbh on November 19, 2013, 11:05:31 AM
Shitty news Raz :hug:
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 19, 2013, 02:30:18 PM
My dad does have a college degree, though not in anything relevant.  It's in... Psychology. :lol:  It's also a field he's totally clueless on.  These are courses he took in the 1970's.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Sheilbh on November 19, 2013, 05:53:56 PM
How old is he?
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 19, 2013, 09:51:54 PM
62.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: KRonn on November 20, 2013, 03:23:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 19, 2013, 09:51:54 PM
62.

I assume he's getting unemployment payments? I wonder if he has any ideas on retiring early at 62? Or if the family can survive on unemployment for a year or so he can retire at 63.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Berkut on November 20, 2013, 03:45:08 PM
Raz, if I were reading your posts, I would say your dad has a pretty decent chance of finding another job, and maybe at a better salary than he already had. He needs to get a resume together highlighting what he does and get it out on the major job sites.

There is plenty of demand out there for people who can work with mainframes.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 20, 2013, 04:39:48 PM
He may just retire.  He's not sure yet.  He only lost his job on Monday.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Legbiter on November 20, 2013, 05:47:00 PM
Eh, if at all possible your dad should try to get another job Raz. But if he retires bring him to Languish, we need some fresh blood.  :lol:


Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Ed Anger on November 20, 2013, 06:16:39 PM
We can go golfing.  :)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwpmedia.golfwrx.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F11%2Fjudge-smails-e1357686448827.jpg&hash=651b9345bf9a9611b87fdba4665b804b87029ca3)
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Razgovory on November 20, 2013, 07:37:40 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on November 20, 2013, 05:47:00 PM
Eh, if at all possible your dad should try to get another job Raz. But if he retires bring him to Languish, we need some fresh blood.  :lol:

Not inviting him to Languish, but you are right I think.  He's not getting any younger... for instance he's now 63.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: The Brain on November 21, 2013, 12:04:27 PM
See? Unemployed years just fly by.
Title: Re: So my dad just lost his job.
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 21, 2013, 12:17:47 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 21, 2013, 12:04:27 PM
See? Unemployed years just fly by.

Nonsense. 2008 feels like a lifetime ago.