I'm exhausting my strategic TV supplies, and am presently burning through Showtime's The Tudors.
I have some conflicted feelings about it. Very, very conflicted. The writing is uneven, and sometimes dreadful-OH MY GOD LOOK AT THE STORM OUTSIDE THE COURT WHEN BOLEYN FIRST GIVES HENRY A BOOK ON PROTESTANTISM. Some of the characterization is iffy-everyone on the show is at least an 8. I like some of the cast-Cromwell, Boleyn, PETER O'TOOLE. I think Jonathan Rhys-Myers is a deeply mediocre actor, and I doubt he or the writers are going to have the guts to make him disgusting in later seasons.
Does it get better? I'm mostly watching because I want the BBC to hurry up and make Wolf Hall at the moment.
I found it dull and gave up in 2nd season. That said - promo shots definitely showed JRM looking pretty skeevy for later seasons.
Similar to Grab On.
Generally good for tits though.
I enjoyed it and watched it to the end of the series.
I actually liked it a lot. The guy who plays Henry is pretty good and the woman who plays Anne Boleyn is really hot (she's in GoT).
Of course you don't watch something like this for any historical accuracy. It's good soap opera fun set in Henry VIII's world. It's good, at times smutty, fun.
Quote from: Josephus on November 01, 2013, 11:50:14 AM
I actually liked it a lot. The guy who plays Henry is pretty good and the woman who plays Anne Boleyn is really hot (she's in GoT).
Of course you don't watch something like this for any historical accuracy. It's good soap opera fun set in Henry VIII's world. It's good, at times smutty, fun.
Yeah but they didn't make it historically inaccurate. If you watched that miniseries you would know all the significant events of Henry VIII's reign.
Cardinal Wolsey offs himself. That's not even remotely what happened.
Quote from: Queequeg on November 01, 2013, 02:04:32 PM
Cardinal Wolsey offs himself. That's not even remotely what happened.
Meh close enough :P
But frankly I had completely forgotten that part, that takes place in the earlier seasons. Anyway I will be interested to hear your take when you finish. I personally think it gets better once the Boleyns fall.
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
He was hardly the only one. One you think the entire English Aristocracy was selected by a kingdom wide 'Hot or Not' vote rather than by birth.
I should point out though that I loved Henry Cavill in it. His scruff was great! :wub:
I believe I'd just finished reading a book about Henry VIII's sisters at the start of series and was disappointed that they were merged into one who was sailing to Portugal. -_-
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2013, 02:24:39 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
He was hardly the only one. One you think the entire English Aristocracy was selected by a kingdom wide 'Hot or Not' vote rather than by birth.
True, but Henry's ogre-esque appearance (as well as temper) later in life is sorta central to the plot here. ;)
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
True. But by the final season he does begin to look a bit more like what tradition has him looking like.
Quote from: Josephus on November 01, 2013, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
True. But by the final season he does begin to look a bit more like what tradition has him looking like.
It ain't just tradition. If you go to the Tower of London, you can still see his personal suit of armour. He was one big dude, with a truly horrific cod-piece. :lol:
Yeah. I get the impression that he went from Judge Holden in Blood Meridian or 30something Teddy Roosevelt to Baron Vladimir Harkonen after his leg gave out. He seems likely to have been bipolar or something, too.
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: Josephus on November 01, 2013, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
True. But by the final season he does begin to look a bit more like what tradition has him looking like.
It ain't just tradition. If you go to the Tower of London, you can still see his personal suit of armour. He was one big dude, with a truly horrific cod-piece. :lol:
yeah, alright. But my point is even in the show they did "let him go" by the final season.
Speaking of him - has anyone caught that dreadful new Dracula show?
Quote from: Josephus on November 01, 2013, 04:23:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: Josephus on November 01, 2013, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
True. But by the final season he does begin to look a bit more like what tradition has him looking like.
It ain't just tradition. If you go to the Tower of London, you can still see his personal suit of armour. He was one big dude, with a truly horrific cod-piece. :lol:
yeah, alright. But my point is even in the show they did "let him go" by the final season.
Agreed, I thought those final episodes were well done. Perhaps the best of the whole series.
Also, Malthus it would be pretty hard to case one actor to undertake that kind of transformation. I think he was well cast as the youthful energetic Henry and the makeup artists did well to portray the him at the end of his reign.
Quote from: garbon on November 01, 2013, 04:24:59 PM
Speaking of him - has anyone caught that dreadful new Dracula show?
Yeah. I'll give it maybe 2 more episodes. <_<
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on November 01, 2013, 04:48:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 01, 2013, 04:24:59 PM
Speaking of him - has anyone caught that dreadful new Dracula show?
Yeah. I'll give it maybe 2 more episodes. <_<
Yeah I was thinking I'd give it one more episode as it is one of the few shows that Hulu adds on saturday morning but it seems pretty rough. His American accent is...grating and that first episode seemed quite a jumble.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 01, 2013, 04:47:28 PM
Quote from: Josephus on November 01, 2013, 04:23:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: Josephus on November 01, 2013, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
True. But by the final season he does begin to look a bit more like what tradition has him looking like.
It ain't just tradition. If you go to the Tower of London, you can still see his personal suit of armour. He was one big dude, with a truly horrific cod-piece. :lol:
yeah, alright. But my point is even in the show they did "let him go" by the final season.
Agreed, I thought those final episodes were well done. Perhaps the best of the whole series.
Also, Malthus it would be pretty hard to case one actor to undertake that kind of transformation. I think he was well cast as the youthful energetic Henry and the makeup artists did well to portray the him at the end of his reign.
Fair enough, but even as a young guy the real King Henry was notable - he was
big. Really big. He had a famous phyiscal presence that everybody remarked on - positively as a fit young dude, negatively as a bloated old ogre (at least, when safely out of his reach).
Of course you have to have actors who are not going to look exactly like the historical figure, but where a historical guy is known for something - indeed famous for it - it makes sense to cast someone who could at least plausibly fit the type.
I have nothing against Jonathan Rhys Meyers as an actor, but he simply is miscast. He's a slim, pretty-boy-type figure. The real Henry would have squashed him like a bug. ;)
Here you have the old Henry in the show, final season look IIRC:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages5.fanpop.com%2Fimage%2Fphotos%2F31200000%2FJonathan-Rhys-Meyers-as-Henry-VIII-tudor-history-31287370-500-333.jpg&hash=2e3193151c3cca6c87af012d594418ff5381033e)
I'd like to know if he really challenged the king of France to a wrestling match, though. Could be. :lol:
I wanted to see Mary Tudor get fucked.
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 04:57:56 PM
I have nothing against Jonathan Rhys Meyers as an actor, but he simply is miscast. He's a slim, pretty-boy-type figure. The real Henry would have squashed him like a bug. ;)
I do get your point. But, again, it was a made for TV titillation historical soap. They needed a good looking guy to keep the ladies interested.
Some ladies like big fellows like Liam Neeson or Russell Crowe or the guy who played Thor.
Henry VIII burped at me in the London Dungeon.
So did Henry VIII just have the worst genes ever? 11 stillbirths or near stillbirths, and of his three living children 1 died of cancer in his teens and the other in her 40s.
I thought the going theory is that he had an STD ( syphilis?) that he gave his lady friends which caused the still births.
Quote from: Queequeg on November 02, 2013, 03:36:42 PM
So did Henry VIII just have the worst genes ever? 11 stillbirths or near stillbirths, and of his three living children 1 died of cancer in his teens and the other in her 40s.
deus vult
The later seasons are a lot better, but now I just want to watch Henry humiliated and dead because he killed my beloved Cromwell. :ultra:
You know Cromwell had been dead for centuries before the show started.
Yeah, well, the Cromwell clan sure as fuck had it''s vengeance on the monarchy that had done them so much wrong.
Sigh.
Was it just me or was Anne of Cleaves hot in a Biergarten mädchen kind of way?
Quote from: Queequeg on November 02, 2013, 10:16:34 PM
Yeah, well, the Cromwell clan sure as fuck had it''s vengeance on the monarchy that had done them so much wrong.
Shame it was the wrong royal family. That's like killing a guy cause he lives in the house of your enemy, who is long dead.
Wrong Cromwell's too. Olivier was descended from Thomas' sister.
Why does Katherine Howard look like a 12 year old Danish girl with fetal alcohol syndrome? Anne is way prettier.
Quote from: Queequeg on November 02, 2013, 11:20:07 PM
Was it just me or was Anne of Cleaves hot in a Biergarten mädchen kind of way?
Joss Stone is most definitely hot. :wub:
The later seasons are a whole lot better.
I'd suggest that you might want to go out and get some fresh air at points. :unsure:
Rhys-Myers is more believable as a decedent pervert than as a Renaissance prince.
I think the show lost a lot of gravitas when Wolsey(Sam Neill) exits the stage.
You just get way to passionate and dramatic about the most trivial of shit.
I really hope it's not a reflection of how you act in real life.
Kind of. I'm excitable. I play it up as a kind of schtick.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 03, 2013, 10:45:12 PM
I think the show lost a lot of gravitas when Wolsey(Sam Neill) exits the stage.
I don't think he was ever as interesting as Cromwell.
Also, Tim, that's a weird response. Rhys-Myers isn't a great actor and I think his limited range is best suited to roles where he plays trashy, hedonistic pretty people. This is hardly me cumming over Hugenot victory in France.
Cromwell was an interesting character, sure, but he lacks presence. Henry doesn't have as much as he should either. It's like watching our congressmen engage in court politics. Who wants to see that? ;)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 03, 2013, 10:53:03 PM
You just get way to passionate and dramatic about the most trivial of shit.
I really hope it's not a reflection of how you act in real life.
You got room to talk. Fucking zomg-its-the-new-Michael-Bay-movie with your Assburger puppy dog bullshit. The bullshit we had to go through with you over motherfucking King Kong.
Go find the DMZ and get mowed down by some starving commie monkeys.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 04, 2013, 12:39:33 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 03, 2013, 10:53:03 PM
You just get way to passionate and dramatic about the most trivial of shit.
I really hope it's not a reflection of how you act in real life.
You got room to talk. Fucking zomg-its-the-new-Michael-Bay-movie with your Assburger puppy dog bullshit. The bullshit we had to go through with you over motherfucking King Kong.
Go find the DMZ and get mowed down by some starving commie monkeys.
Spellus goes well beyond me.
Plus, those that know me here, realize I don't act anything like that in real life.
Is Henry VII in the show at all?
This thread has a Riefenstahl tinge.
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:31:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2013, 02:24:39 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
He was hardly the only one. One you think the entire English Aristocracy was selected by a kingdom wide 'Hot or Not' vote rather than by birth.
True, but Henry's ogre-esque appearance (as well as temper) later in life is sorta central to the plot here. ;)
Yeah, but I think casting someone pretty makes the point of how he physically (and morally) degenerates. Especially because the public image of Henry is entirely fixed by his corpulent later life. Every documentary I've seen on the Tudors makes a big deal of how handsome and svelte he was as a young man because it's so against how we imagine him.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 04, 2013, 04:15:18 AM
Every documentary I've seen on the Tudors makes a big deal of how handsome and svelte he was as a young man because it's so against how we imagine him.
We need a show on young George Washington. It will begin with the death of his father.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 04, 2013, 01:04:36 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 04, 2013, 12:39:33 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 03, 2013, 10:53:03 PM
You just get way to passionate and dramatic about the most trivial of shit.
I really hope it's not a reflection of how you act in real life.
You got room to talk. Fucking zomg-its-the-new-Michael-Bay-movie with your Assburger puppy dog bullshit. The bullshit we had to go through with you over motherfucking King Kong.
Go find the DMZ and get mowed down by some starving commie monkeys.
Spellus goes well beyond me.
Plus, those that know me here, realize I don't act anything like that in real life.
Well could you drop it here too? :)
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 04, 2013, 04:15:18 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:31:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2013, 02:24:39 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
He was hardly the only one. One you think the entire English Aristocracy was selected by a kingdom wide 'Hot or Not' vote rather than by birth.
True, but Henry's ogre-esque appearance (as well as temper) later in life is sorta central to the plot here. ;)
Yeah, but I think casting someone pretty makes the point of how he physically (and morally) degenerates. Especially because the public image of Henry is entirely fixed by his corpulent later life. Every documentary I've seen on the Tudors makes a big deal of how handsome and svelte he was as a young man because it's so against how we imagine him.
Sure, he was allegedly handsome as all hell when younger - but he was always a big, physically imposing guy: over six feet tall, and big in proportion. An athlete with a trim figure but broad-shouldered and well-muscled who beat opponents to a pulp in jousting, was first at the death in hunting, etc.
This phyiscality was what people noted about him - very positively when he was young: he looked every inch a king.
Rhys-Myers is pretty buff. Not, like, Guest House Patrick Swayze buff but he's not really a few pretty boy.
He's a total pretty boy.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 04, 2013, 11:20:17 AM
He's a total pretty boy.
Yep, though now he often looks sleazy.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcelebritygirlfriendrevealed.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2FJonathan-Rhys-Meyers-dating1.jpg&hash=0a6038d6b5a58ddfcae42a847d767428b0369447)
I liked him in Velvet Goldmine. That was a fun movie. In large part because it depicted the era my English textbooks in school were from.
Quote from: Syt on November 04, 2013, 11:28:23 AM
I liked him in Velvet Goldmine. That was a fun movie. In large part because it depicted the era my English textbooks in school were from.
I like him there and Vanity Fair.
I liked him when he sniped Liam Neeson in the head with a Lee Enfield.
Quote from: Malthus on November 04, 2013, 10:56:31 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 04, 2013, 04:15:18 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:31:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2013, 02:24:39 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
It just felt miscast. King Henry was always a huge guy, allegedly good-looking when young, a total ogre when older. He was never a pretty-boy type. :lol:
He was hardly the only one. One you think the entire English Aristocracy was selected by a kingdom wide 'Hot or Not' vote rather than by birth.
True, but Henry's ogre-esque appearance (as well as temper) later in life is sorta central to the plot here. ;)
Yeah, but I think casting someone pretty makes the point of how he physically (and morally) degenerates. Especially because the public image of Henry is entirely fixed by his corpulent later life. Every documentary I've seen on the Tudors makes a big deal of how handsome and svelte he was as a young man because it's so against how we imagine him.
Sure, he was allegedly handsome as all hell when younger - but he was always a big, physically imposing guy: over six feet tall, and big in proportion. An athlete with a trim figure but broad-shouldered and well-muscled who beat opponents to a pulp in jousting, was first at the death in hunting, etc.
This phyiscality was what people noted about him - very positively when he was young: he looked every inch a king.
I wonder if he inherited that from his mom. Edward IV was supposedly equally big and physically imposing in his youth and went to waste as an older adult. I don't think anyone has denied Elizabeth of York being Edward IV's child, simply that she may have been a bastard along with her brothers.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on November 04, 2013, 03:10:32 PM
I wonder if he inherited that from his mom. Edward IV was supposedly equally big and physically imposing in his youth and went to waste as an older adult. I don't think anyone has denied Elizabeth of York being Edward IV's child, simply that she may have been a bastard along with her brothers.
Probably more a question of diet than genetics. Fresh fruit and vegetables were considered peasant's food.
I think Henry Cavill would have been better for the lead. He's a better actor.
And less inherently trashy.
Watching the 1998 Elizabeth. Opinions?
Quote from: Queequeg on November 04, 2013, 07:05:22 PM
And less inherently trashy.
Watching the 1998 Elizabeth. Opinions?
Meh.
R-M as Henry VIII was definitely one of oddest casting decisions I can think of. Maybe the point was to show potential viewers the show was to take a "to hell with history" approach? :hmm:
I imagine they were trying to grab the soap opera audience. Women watch TV too.
Yeah but I bet Cavill has inspired more fantasies than Myers.
Cavill was an unknown when the show began, making him a riskier casting choice. Plus he seems too nice. It would take a lot of range to be a convincing Henry VIII and Superman.
Quote from: Queequeg on November 04, 2013, 07:48:43 PM
Yeah but I bet Cavill has inspired more fantasies than Myers.
I don't think he was particularly well known when they cast the show. He was/is certainly the more attractive of the two, but a glance at wiki doesn't show any big credits to his name.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 04, 2013, 07:54:08 PM
Cavill was an unknown when the show began, making him a riskier casting choice.
:yes:
Quote from: Queequeg on November 04, 2013, 07:48:43 PM
Yeah but I bet Cavill has inspired more fantasies than Myers.
Pretty homoerotic there Squeelus.
I realized that after I posted, but still think I was right. What is Superman if not a modern Renassiance prince?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 04, 2013, 07:56:52 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on November 04, 2013, 07:48:43 PM
Yeah but I bet Cavill has inspired more fantasies than Myers.
Pretty homoerotic there Squeelus.
Cavill is an extremely handsome man. People who don't admit that are stupid.
Quote from: Queequeg on November 04, 2013, 07:58:21 PM
Cavill is an extremely handsome man. People who don't admit that are stupid.
I demand you take Beeb's homoboner test.
:rolleyes:
Okay, Yi. Would you rather look like you or look like Henry Cavil?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 04, 2013, 07:40:55 PM
I imagine they were trying to grab the soap opera audience. Women watch TV too.
Women don't like ruggedly handsome men?
So is Hillary Mantel the only person to do serious drama during the Tudor period well? Everything else seems kind of like middlebrow bullshit.
I'd think serious people would focus on researching/writing history.
I guess the Tudor period is one of maybe three or four historical periods with really mass appeal, so there's a lot of not very good stuff about it.
Quote from: Queequeg on November 04, 2013, 08:24:50 PM
So is Hillary Mantel the only person to do serious drama during the Tudor period well? Everything else seems kind of like middlebrow bullshit.
Tom Stoppard did serious comedy very well in Shakespeare in Love. A Man for all Seasons is superb as well.
I also love Mantel's A Place of Greater Safety set in the French Revolution :mmm:
I said "drama" so as to exclude Shakespeare in Love and Blackadder II. Will have to rewatch Man for All Seasons.
I guess the Prince and the Pauper is out as well?
Mantel's works are novels, not dramas. I'm sure there must be loads of novels set in Tudor times. Some people liek Phillipa Greofory's stuff, though I've not read it myself.