On the car ride home from Niagra Falls yesterday, my son mentioned that Kickstarter is the way that most indie games are now being launched. Put your idea out there for others to see, show your company's portfolio, and raise money in the process.
I checked out a few games on there last night when we got home just to see what was on the line, and wow, but there are a lot! Many of them have raised hundreds of thousands of dollars to make the games, too.
How does it work, though? I mean, people just give over cash in the hopes that the games will be made, but have no actual vested interest in the game? In other words, they donate toward the making of the game, but receive no return on that investment other than the t-shirt and first shot at downloading that comes with their $50 contribution?
The question I have is how long will it take before the questionable types who try to convince people to buy penny stocks on various OTC markets will turn their full attention on the unregulated money making potential.
Yeah, one of the main concerns with crowdfunding is that there is no way to enforce any rights for the buyer. You pay your money and what you get in return is hope.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 13, 2013, 10:54:57 AM
The question I have is how long will it take before the questionable types who try to convince people to buy penny stocks on various OTC markets will turn their full attention on the unregulated money making potential.
Well it has been years and they haven't yet. A couple road blocks would be that you actually have to make your goal to get any money at all and it is easy to depledge if the word gets out you are shady. It would require a reasonably sophisticated con operation and that may be alot of work for comparatively little gain compared to what can be scammed elsewhere.
Quote from: merithyn on August 13, 2013, 10:35:35 AM
How does it work, though? I mean, people just give over cash in the hopes that the games will be made, but have no actual vested interest in the game? In other words, they donate toward the making of the game, but receive no return on that investment other than the t-shirt and first shot at downloading that comes with their $50 contribution?
Pretty much. You are giving over the money because you want to support that studio making the sorts of games they make. Generally they are games that would have been made 15 years ago but with today's crazy AAA budgets are no longer economical. So you end up with a large market that is not being served hence kickstarter.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 13, 2013, 11:02:23 AM
Yeah, one of the main concerns with crowdfunding is that there is no way to enforce any rights for the buyer. You pay your money and what you get in return is hope.
Yeah. You are not a customer here, you are a patron of the arts. That crazy Mozart may finish your requiem mass or may die half-way through.
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2013, 11:02:52 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 13, 2013, 10:54:57 AM
The question I have is how long will it take before the questionable types who try to convince people to buy penny stocks on various OTC markets will turn their full attention on the unregulated money making potential.
Well it has been years and they haven't yet. A couple road blocks would be that you actually have to make your goal to get any money at all and it is easy to depledge if the word gets out you are shady. It would require a reasonably sophisticated con operation and that may be alot of work for comparatively little gain compared to what can be scammed elsewhere.
There is a lot of talk about how commercial enterprises can start getting funding through this sort of system. It is entirely unregulated and open to enormous abuse. It is easy to imagine someone putting out a pursuasive pitch with a target goal that has lots of fine print enabling them to pocket lots of case for next to no work.
Who decides when the money is earned? If there is a disupute how is it resolved? and on and on and on.
This already happens in the regulated world of securities. One wonders what the potential is in this enviornment for those kinds of fraudsters.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 13, 2013, 11:13:48 AM
There is a lot of talk about how commercial enterprises can start getting funding through this sort of system.
I guess I am confused. How are commerical enterprises not now getting funded through these sorts of systems?
QuoteIt is entirely unregulated and open to enormous abuse. It is easy to imagine someone putting out a pursuasive pitch with a target goal that has lots of fine print enabling them to pocket lots of case for next to no work.
Who decides when the money is earned? If there is a disupute how is it resolved? and on and on and on.
This already happens in the regulated world of securities. One wonders what the potential is in this enviornment for those kinds of fraudsters.
Well the difference is in securities people expect a return. Here you are just giving somebody money without expecting much in return except the glory of having participated in making something. So it is all about reputation and so forth. It is hard to get a good amount of money without that reputation. Also I question the assertion it is 'entirely unregulated'. I mean Kickstarter is a company with policies and I presume they have to follow laws.
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2013, 11:17:32 AM
Well the difference is in securities people expect a return. Here you are just giving somebody money without expecting much in return except the glory of having participated in making something. So it is all about reputation and so forth. It is hard to get a good amount of money without that reputation.
But that's not true. I think most people are going in expecting an end product. After all, I think there is very small pool of people who would are excited to give away money to a favorite game developer with no hope of a return.
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2013, 11:21:01 AM
But that's not true. I think most people are going in expecting an end product. After all, I think there is very small pool of people who would are excited to give away money to a favorite game developer with no hope of a return.
Giving money to see the game (or art piece or music album or whatever) being made and giving money to see a return (as in to make money) are very different things. Everybody who donates to a kickstarter understands the risks, but generally for game kickstarters you are donating to a developer with a track record of actually producing games so the risk is pretty small.
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2013, 11:25:04 AM
Giving money to see the game (or art piece or music album or whatever) being made and giving money to see a return (as in to make money) are very different things.
Yes and no. I mean in both cases, you are forking over money for something you expect to receive later. I think that most people are expecting to eventually receive a game if they donate funds.
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2013, 11:17:32 AM
I guess I am confused. How are commerical enterprises not now getting funded through these sorts of systems?
A couple examples of how this can work.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/groupthink/2013/04/19/crowdfundings-latest-invasion-real-estate/
http://www.fundageek.com/WhatIsFG
I personally have "crowdfunded" some scentific research after I did some due diligence to ensure it was real. But I can readily see how someone could easily be scammed into thinking they are funding something worthy when it is all a sham.
Yes, it's the far west!
I did the reaper minatures one and Steve Jackson's Ogre. I went with established company kickstarter's instead if some random dude's.
Got my minatures and am still waiting for Ogre. Ogre may give the UPS guy a hernia.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 13, 2013, 11:13:48 AM
There is a lot of talk about how commercial enterprises can start getting funding through this sort of system. It is entirely unregulated and open to enormous abuse. It is easy to imagine someone putting out a pursuasive pitch with a target goal that has lots of fine print enabling them to pocket lots of case for next to no work.
Who decides when the money is earned? If there is a disupute how is it resolved? and on and on and on.
This already happens in the regulated world of securities. One wonders what the potential is in this enviornment for those kinds of fraudsters.
The money is held in escrow until the funding period is done. Up until that point it is easy to get a refund, and even after that point you can sometimes still get a refund if you paid by credit card (and the payment was recent enough). After the money is released (barring credit card refunds) it's much harder, and basically involves a lawsuit where you have very little chance of getting anything back unless you can show outright fraud. The success rate of projects is reasonably high, but the failures have been pretty spectacular. The best bet is established companies and studios that have a track record of success outside of Kickstarter.
I've backed a handful of Kickstarters, but I'm well aware of the fact that there's not really a binding contract that I get the promised product. There's some good examples, some bad ones in the books.
I was a bit surprised by Tim Schafer's DoubleFine. They asked for a couple hundred thousands for a classic point & click adventure game. They vastly exceeded that, collecting over two million. And then they went out and said, "Oops, we're going to need even more money."
Quote from: Syt on August 13, 2013, 11:38:00 AM
I was a bit surprised by Tim Schafer's DoubleFine. They asked for a couple hundred thousands for a classic point & click adventure game. They vastly exceeded that, collecting over two million. And then they went out and said, "Oops, we're going to need even more money."
Well the problem is that once you start getting alot more money the project expands. And of course Tim had a hard time controlling budgets back in the day as well.
Quote from: frunk on August 13, 2013, 11:36:13 AM
The best bet is established companies and studios that have a track record of success outside of Kickstarter.
This. I have only backed two ventures from people I have not actually played a game made by them before. And in both cases I am prepared to lose my money.
I want my Ogre.
My co-worker has a Pebble, that was semi-successfull. You can buy(don't) an Ouya too.
So beyond the funding aspect, is this really how you guys learn about potential new games coming out? I know E3 is the big one for console games, but my son said that PC games really don't get released there. It's pretty much word of mouth via Kickstarter or some other kind of funding project unless it's a big-name company who already has a vast following.
Yeah Ouya turned out to be sorta buggy huh? I do not really care about consoles but I know there were hopes for that one.
Quote from: merithyn on August 13, 2013, 11:44:43 AM
So beyond the funding aspect, is this really how you guys learn about potential new games coming out? I know E3 is the big one for console games, but my son said that PC games really don't get released there. It's pretty much word of mouth via Kickstarter or some other kind of funding project unless it's a big-name company who already has a vast following.
Pretty much. Virtually all the games I like are primarily being made by either Paradox or kickstarters.
Of course the counterargument for going with established publishers is the ongoing debacle with the Up Front (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/956591/yes-but-what-does-this-mean-for-up-front/page/1) reprint. Well, it would be if it was someone other than Valley Games.
From what I can tell, there are few safeguards. It's not infrequent to hear stories of kickstarters where nothing gets delivered, or where it gets delivered much much later, or where the various side benefits don't materialize. It's not necessarily even about fraud; in many cases it's also people with good intentions over promising or underestimating the difficulties of delivering on their promises.
Right now, I've participated in one kickstarter - the Reaper Bones (plastic miniatures) - and it was considered a big success, even though I got my stuff about six months later than I initially expected. As I said, there are many stories of failures and what appears to be scams out there.
Personally, I'd only kickstarter something from a reputable company where the reputational risk of failing to deliver is too high for them to take their commitment lightly. I may one day do some kickstarter stuff as an indie, but I'll manage it very carefully; hopefully the well won't have been completely poisoned by then.
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2013, 11:45:49 AM
Yeah Ouya turned out to be sorta buggy huh? I do not really care about consoles but I know there were hopes for that one.
Boy, I'm glad I held off on that turd.
Quote from: Jacob on August 13, 2013, 11:48:50 AM
hopefully the well won't have been completely poisoned by then.
Well people keep thinking this will happen but it does not seem to be slowing down yet.
I have my doubts this will really happen. For some reason I just get a huge rush from participating in these things. It just costs me a few bucks and for the length of the kickstarter (and to a lesser extent leading up to release of the product) it is a crap load of fun.
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2013, 12:07:46 PMWell people keep thinking this will happen but it does not seem to be slowing down yet.
I have my doubts this will really happen. For some reason I just get a huge rush from participating in these things. It just costs me a few bucks and for the length of the kickstarter (and to a lesser extent leading up to release of the product) it is a crap load of fun.
I'll be sure to let you know when (if) I do a kickstarter :cheers:
Quote from: Jacob on August 13, 2013, 12:10:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2013, 12:07:46 PMWell people keep thinking this will happen but it does not seem to be slowing down yet.
I have my doubts this will really happen. For some reason I just get a huge rush from participating in these things. It just costs me a few bucks and for the length of the kickstarter (and to a lesser extent leading up to release of the product) it is a crap load of fun.
I'll be sure to let you know when (if) I do a kickstarter :cheers:
Please do :)
Quote from: Jacob on August 13, 2013, 12:10:00 PM
I'll be sure to let you know when (if) I do a kickstarter :cheers:
No joke, Jacob. Please do let us know if you do so. I would easily support any of your endeavors.
Quote from: merithyn on August 13, 2013, 12:28:32 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 13, 2013, 12:10:00 PM
I'll be sure to let you know when (if) I do a kickstarter :cheers:
No joke, Jacob. Please do let us know if you do so. I would easily support any of your endeavors.
Sweet :cheers:
It's probably about a year out at this point...
I'll keep you posted, for sure.
Only gave once so far (Project Eternity). Would have given to the new Torment as well but I missed that. Project Eternity looks promising.
Quote from: Zanza on August 13, 2013, 01:15:27 PM
Only gave once so far (Project Eternity). Would have given to the new Torment as well but I missed that. Project Eternity looks promising.
Eternity, Wasteland 2, and Torment should all be awesome. I eagerly await to see if my notions on this front are correct when Wasteland 2 comes out later this year :P
InExile and Obsidian seem to be poster children for companies who can make this work so their success is pretty key.
It would be nice if a partial return on investment if the thing sells was included with kickstarter....
And the way groups who could get money via conventional mean increasingly tale advantage o it... it is iffy
...
Quote from: Tyr on August 13, 2013, 03:31:01 PM
It would be nice if a partial return on investment if the thing sells was included with kickstarter....
And the way groups who could get money via conventional mean increasingly tale advantage o it... it is iffy
...
How about you delete that and try again? :P
I've only participated in a Kickstarter campaign, but it wasn't for a videogame. It was a drive to print comic books from a webcomic I follow, as well as reprinting some old ones which were out of stock. It was wildly successful, it originally asked for less than 60k dollars and ended up making more than a million, which allowed the creator to publish and produce a lot more products that he originally intended.
Quote from: The Larch on August 13, 2013, 03:50:31 PM
I've only participated in a Kickstarter campaign, but it wasn't for a videogame. It was a drive to print comic books from a webcomic I follow, as well as reprinting some old ones which were out of stock. It was wildly successful, it originally asked for less than 60k dollars and ended up making more than a million, which allowed the creator to publish and produce a lot more products that he originally intended.
Was it: Order of the Stick?
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2013, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 13, 2013, 03:50:31 PM
I've only participated in a Kickstarter campaign, but it wasn't for a videogame. It was a drive to print comic books from a webcomic I follow, as well as reprinting some old ones which were out of stock. It was wildly successful, it originally asked for less than 60k dollars and ended up making more than a million, which allowed the creator to publish and produce a lot more products that he originally intended.
Was it: Order of the Stick?
:yes:
The only Kickstarter I have participated in was for Little Witch Academia, which did quite well. Poor Japanese scarcely know how to use Kickstarter, and it's really cute.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1311401276/little-witch-academia-2
Quote from: The Larch on August 13, 2013, 03:50:31 PM
I've only participated in a Kickstarter campaign, but it wasn't for a videogame. It was a drive to print comic books from a webcomic I follow, as well as reprinting some old ones which were out of stock. It was wildly successful, it originally asked for less than 60k dollars and ended up making more than a million, which allowed the creator to publish and produce a lot more products that he originally intended.
So you basically end up with you funding part of an business venture like it was charity, and the whole profit (including future profit from his creating snowballing further) goes to the creator?
That's why I distrust the concept of Kickstarter: I understand that it allows fans to see content made on intellectual property no one would have touched prior without that funding, but without rewarding this investment by dividends over the profit, which they should be entitled as this constitute in fact investment in all but name. Every cent of profit goes to the creator, while the payer ends with a product which, odds are, will end up like receiving the proverbial Halloween rock of Charlie Brown.
Quote from: Drakken on August 13, 2013, 05:09:03 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 13, 2013, 03:50:31 PM
I've only participated in a Kickstarter campaign, but it wasn't for a videogame. It was a drive to print comic books from a webcomic I follow, as well as reprinting some old ones which were out of stock. It was wildly successful, it originally asked for less than 60k dollars and ended up making more than a million, which allowed the creator to publish and produce a lot more products that he originally intended.
So you basically end up with you funding part of an business venture like it was charity, and the whole profit (including future profit from his creating snowballing further) goes to the creator?
That's why I distrust the concept of Kickstarter: I understand that it allows fans to see content made on intellectual property no one would have touched prior without that funding, but without rewarding this investment by dividends over the profit, which they should be entitled as this constitute in fact investment in all but name. Every cent of profit goes to the creator, while the payer ends with a product which, odds are, will end up like receiving the proverbial Halloween rock of Charlie Brown.
No, I got a lot of books that I asked for and plenty of freebies to go with them.
I agree with Seduction Community. Do it like venture capital. Hand out shares of the upside for seed money.
I doubt these things make a huge profit for their promoters, so splitting benefits wouldn't really be a great idea. This is an instrument for fans to support creators they like, not a business venture.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2013, 05:23:58 PM
I agree with Seduction Community. Do it like venture capital. Hand out shares of the upside for seed money.
Why?
The people who give money don't seem to desperately want that. They want to support people they like and be part of it. The people who get the money get to keep any profit.
It may not be for you guys but it's working.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2013, 06:08:36 PM
To broaden the appeal.
But they don't need to and there's no sign their customers want them to.
Someone could do something similar with companies for what you and Drakken suggest. But then I imagine there's a lot of hoops to jump through to set that up and there may not be enough of a market to justify companies doing it.
The only way you can say they don't need to is if every project that needs funding is already being funded.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2013, 06:30:34 PM
The only way you can say they don't need to is if every project that needs funding is already being funded.
That seems an odd measure for it. Kickstarter don't need to, they're making a very healthy profit from it and they don't have to deal with any problems or costs of selling shares. Now I think they're moving into new markets and, I suspect, if a few big projects (like the Veronica Mars movie) come out they'll do even better.
Their users might be disappointed but again I think for most of them (especially because it seems to slant creative) the easy access to the cash is worth more than potential access to more cash but with lots of regulation and contracts getting involved.
Kickstarter isn't there to replace venture capital. It's there to allow fans to get what they want, and to pay for it. It's cyberbegging, or a return to the subscription model.
It's just fundraising
Quote from: merithyn on August 13, 2013, 10:35:35 AM
How does it work, though? I mean, people just give over cash in the hopes that the games will be made, but have no actual vested interest in the game? In other words, they donate toward the making of the game, but receive no return on that investment other than the t-shirt and first shot at downloading that comes with their $50 contribution?
Games, and other project, have a fixed objecitve. Canonical, the maker of Ubuntu, tried to raise 32M$ for a new cellphone-pc hybrid. There were pledges of up to 10M$, but since ultimately the project will not go ahead, nobody is being charged, as is the case with all these projects.
If it gets done, then there's usually a list of rewards depending on how much you pledge. For example, Meytal Cohen, young Israeli-American artist in the making offered to visit those who gave 10 000$ in person to thank them, bring a friend, donuts, special edition album, pictures, drumsticks, etc.
Rewards can be anything, of any scale. They can't include stock options or other financial securities so far, I think, because most countries laws would forbid it for non private corporations.
If the project gets cancelled after the funds are transferred, it's between you and the promoter. So you got to investigate first, and see if they are serious.
Quote from: merithyn on August 13, 2013, 11:44:43 AM
So beyond the funding aspect, is this really how you guys learn about potential new games coming out? I know E3 is the big one for console games, but my son said that PC games really don't get released there. It's pretty much word of mouth via Kickstarter or some other kind of funding project unless it's a big-name company who already has a vast following.
I usually read pc.gamespot.com and pc.ign.com once a week to keep me apraise of the new games. And I take a look at the gaming forum here :D
Quote from: Drakken on August 13, 2013, 05:09:03 PM
That's why I distrust the concept of Kickstarter: I understand that it allows fans to see content made on intellectual property no one would have touched prior without that funding, but without rewarding this investment by dividends over the profit, which they should be entitled as this constitute in fact investment in all but name. Every cent of profit goes to the creator, while the payer ends with a product which, odds are, will end up like receiving the proverbial Halloween rock of Charlie Brown.
Then do not participate. Plenty of places to invest in ventures. But this is not that, this is contributing to art being made.
Quote from: Drakken on August 13, 2013, 05:09:03 PM
So you basically end up with you funding part of an business venture like it was charity, and the whole profit (including future profit from his creating snowballing further) goes to the creator?
That's why I distrust the concept of Kickstarter: I understand that it allows fans to see content made on intellectual property no one would have touched prior without that funding, but without rewarding this investment by dividends over the profit, which they should be entitled as this constitute in fact investment in all but name. Every cent of profit goes to the creator, while the payer ends with a product which, odds are, will end up like receiving the proverbial Halloween rock of Charlie Brown.
so long as it's clear in the beginning, I don't see why not? People want to give, they give. They want stocks÷ns instead, they find other ways to contribute or don't contribute at all.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2013, 05:23:58 PM
I agree with Seduction Community. Do it like venture capital. Hand out shares of the upside for seed money.
I guess these type of projects don't offer a lot of benefits in the early days. You'd need to be patient, the way venture capital can be, but it needs to show promises. Anything touching arts (movies, games, music) is frowned upon, unless you get a regular studio contract for some commercial music.
The whole idea sees insane to me, but has produced results, which pleases me immensely. I even kicked in some cash for one of the video games, just for shits and grins. The fact this has turned out to be a viable method of raising capital for small developers seems to be a really good thing for PC gaming.
Admiral Yi, if you think a venture capital model is superior to the current kickstarter one, that sounds like an opportunity to be disruptive. Kickstarter is making good cash, this could be your ticket....
I've back 26 projects, about 20 of them PC games. Of the 26, three did not make it. I've received my first game, Shadowrun Returns, which was a great deal of fun. It cost me 20 dollars, and I got 23 hours of play out of it.
Count me in with the "always seen it more as patronage" crowd. I've supported a couple, but they're mostly symbolic gestures in the form of a couple of dollars here and there- I have yet to seriously put skin into one of these projects.
I have dropped some serious kwan on three indiegogo projects, and on two kickstarter projects. All checked out as reputable, so I was willing to take the risk.
There's subbable.com now too.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 14, 2013, 09:18:08 AM
There's subbable.com now too.
That is for supporting youtube content creators mainly, which is more of a 'pass the hat' for something you are already getting for free.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 14, 2013, 08:37:55 AM
Count me in with the "always seen it more as patronage" crowd. I've supported a couple, but they're mostly symbolic gestures in the form of a couple of dollars here and there- I have yet to seriously put skin into one of these projects.
Yeah my rule is no more than $50.00 to any one project and I have only ever contributed $20.00 or more twice.
I've only ever participated in one kickstarter. I put in something like $150, and I got a huge amount of stuff for it: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-bones-an-evolution-of-gaming-min
Worked out okay for me.
Yeah, my point isnt that it cant work out. The fear is that as this niche grows it is going to attract con artists so unless people do some good due diligence they are going to get shafted. And to all those who said earlier in the thread something to the effect that the bad apples wont get funding - just consider the most recent penny stock scam in the news today.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 14, 2013, 10:40:40 AM
Yeah, my point isnt that it cant work out. The fear is that as this niche grows it is going to attract con artists so unless people do some good due diligence they are going to get shafted. And to all those who said earlier in the thread something to the effect that the bad apples wont get funding - just consider the most recent penny stock scam in the news today.
I think it's pretty much inevitable... in fact, I'm sure it's happened already.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 14, 2013, 10:40:40 AM
Yeah, my point isnt that it cant work out. The fear is that as this niche grows it is going to attract con artists so unless people do some good due diligence they are going to get shafted. And to all those who said earlier in the thread something to the effect that the bad apples wont get funding - just consider the most recent penny stock scam in the news today.
I do not get why 'it cant work out'. Art patronage has been going on for centuries. Does it attact con men and other bad apples? Sure. But I guess by your logic art patronage should have failed centuries ago. Besides most people contribute to people they are already fans of, with proven track records, and people they know personally.
Quote from: Jacob on August 14, 2013, 10:46:11 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 14, 2013, 10:40:40 AM
Yeah, my point isnt that it cant work out. The fear is that as this niche grows it is going to attract con artists so unless people do some good due diligence they are going to get shafted. And to all those who said earlier in the thread something to the effect that the bad apples wont get funding - just consider the most recent penny stock scam in the news today.
I think it's pretty much inevitable... in fact, I'm sure it's happened already.
Of course. I have seen a few projects deflate funds spectacularly then bad word of mouth went against them.
I think Kickstarter should be shut down until there's a 100% foolproof system in place.
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2013, 11:01:39 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 14, 2013, 10:40:40 AM
Yeah, my point isnt that it cant work out. The fear is that as this niche grows it is going to attract con artists so unless people do some good due diligence they are going to get shafted. And to all those who said earlier in the thread something to the effect that the bad apples wont get funding - just consider the most recent penny stock scam in the news today.
I do not get why 'it cant work out'.
Valmy, did you hire Grumbler's reader for today?
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 14, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
Valmy, did you hire Grumbler's reader for today?
Ack I guess I did :blush:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ZF3RuB5bxJk%2FT-qpZSGpDbI%2FAAAAAAAAAF8%2Fcz4Edr6Z4zI%2Fs320%2FNever%2Bmind%2B2.jpg&hash=496250150503c64de4f7538ceb60dc4a8b6e013c)
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2013, 11:16:45 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ZF3RuB5bxJk%2FT-qpZSGpDbI%2FAAAAAAAAAF8%2Fcz4Edr6Z4zI%2Fs320%2FNever%2Bmind%2B2.jpg&hash=496250150503c64de4f7538ceb60dc4a8b6e013c)
:lol:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2013, 05:23:58 PM
I agree with Seduction Community. Do it like venture capital. Hand out shares of the upside for seed money.
Then you have a lot more regulatory issues, even post JOBS Act.
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2013, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 13, 2013, 03:31:01 PM
It would be nice if a partial return on investment if the thing sells was included with kickstarter....
And the way groups who could get money via conventional mean increasingly tale advantage o it... it is iffy
...
How about you delete that and try again? :P
Huh?
Quote from: Tyr on August 14, 2013, 03:52:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2013, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 13, 2013, 03:31:01 PM
It would be nice if a partial return on investment if the thing sells was included with kickstarter....
And the way groups who could get money via conventional mean increasingly tale advantage o it... it is iffy
...
How about you delete that and try again? :P
Huh?
Yes, exactly. The post garbon responded to is close to incomprehensible.
I dont see how. Take typoed as tale and of cut short as o but otherwise seems ok. :s
"It would be nice if contributors got some portion of the upside, were it to materialize."
"I disapprove of the way companies who could be financing their projects through equity or credit markets are using Kickstarter."
Quote from: Tyr on August 14, 2013, 03:56:08 PM
I dont see how. Take typoed as tale and of cut short as o but otherwise seems ok. :s
:lol:
Tyr - if you combine typos with non-conventional grammatical structures and a lack of punctuation, you are unlikely to come across the way you sound in your own head.
Quote from: Jacob on August 14, 2013, 10:46:11 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 14, 2013, 10:40:40 AM
Yeah, my point isnt that it cant work out. The fear is that as this niche grows it is going to attract con artists so unless people do some good due diligence they are going to get shafted. And to all those who said earlier in the thread something to the effect that the bad apples wont get funding - just consider the most recent penny stock scam in the news today.
I think it's pretty much inevitable... in fact, I'm sure it's happened already.
http://pandodaily.com/2013/06/18/smalltime-crowdfunding-crooks-tracing-a-kickstarter-fraudster-to-other-crowdfunding-scams/
Quote from: Jacob on August 14, 2013, 04:01:16 PM
Tyr - if you combine typos with non-conventional grammatical structures and a lack of punctuation, you are unlikely to come across the way you sound in your own head.
Yeah have some pride in your posts! I thought you might be as ducking drunk as Tim.
:lol:
Why is it that the most uninteligible posters are the ones who end up teaching English in Asia? :P
Quote from: The Larch on August 14, 2013, 06:35:34 PM
Why is it that the most uninteligible posters are the ones who end up teaching English in Asia? :P
No, that's not what I do.
Keske wii as in nous?
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 14, 2013, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 14, 2013, 06:35:34 PM
Why is it that the most uninteligible posters are the ones who end up teaching English in Asia? :P
No, that's not what I do.
At least you're not a native speaker.
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2013, 06:13:10 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 14, 2013, 04:01:16 PM
Tyr - if you combine typos with non-conventional grammatical structures and a lack of punctuation, you are unlikely to come across the way you sound in your own head.
Yeah have some pride in your posts! I thought you might be as ducking drunk as Tim.
ducking drunk? Is that like fucking frunk? :hmm:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 15, 2013, 04:33:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2013, 06:13:10 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 14, 2013, 04:01:16 PM
Tyr - if you combine typos with non-conventional grammatical structures and a lack of punctuation, you are unlikely to come across the way you sound in your own head.
Yeah have some pride in your posts! I thought you might be as ducking drunk as Tim.
ducking drunk? Is that like fucking frunk? :hmm:
You would have to ask Tim. I don't want to put words in his mouth that he didn't type. :)
Quote from: The Larch on August 15, 2013, 04:28:43 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 14, 2013, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 14, 2013, 06:35:34 PM
Why is it that the most uninteligible posters are the ones who end up teaching English in Asia? :P
No, that's not what I do.
At least you're not a native speaker.
:( :lol:
Quote from: The Larch on August 15, 2013, 04:28:43 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 14, 2013, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 14, 2013, 06:35:34 PM
Why is it that the most uninteligible posters are the ones who end up teaching English in Asia? :P
No, that's not what I do.
At least you're not a native speaker.
That's only because you've never read anything I've written in French.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 15, 2013, 04:33:33 AM
ducking drunk? Is that like fucking frunk? :hmm:
I sure hope not.
Are you: chaste?
Well I am.
Available for what?
Carefree fun.