Acts of Terrorism megathread

[Admiral Yi]

That is not a very typical domestic terrorist background.

[mongers]

Mad. I did not know that Treaty of Versailles truthers were a thing

75-year-old arrested for plotting to kidnap German health minister
The professor of theology also procured weapons and explosives to bring down the country's power grid, authorities say.
By Tristan Fiedler
October 14, 2022 2:35 pm CET

German police in Rhineland-Palatinate on Thursday arrested a 75-year-old woman for plotting to kidnap Health Minister Karl Lauterbach and bring down the country's power grid.

According to reports by the German news outlet T-Online the woman is called Elisabeth R., a professor of theology from the University of Mainz who has worked as a protestant pastor.

She was active in the militant anti-vax movement that holds Lauterbach accountable for the country's hawkish approach toward COVID-19 and sees him as their arch-enemy. Elisabeth R. promoted conspiracy theories about "secretive remodeling of brain structures" in this context and made anti-Semitic remarks about the "world jewry."

Four other members of a group called "United Patriots," of which Elisabeth R. is the leader, have also been arrested, according to the authorities. She was already stripped of her pension after attracting attention due to anti-constitutional statements years ago.

Elisabeth R. was involved in procuring weapons and explosives, and had proposed specific dates for the implementation of the plan, authorities said. The group's goal was to incite a civil war in Germany and to restore the German empire of 1871, authorities added.

Elisabeth R. has signed an open letter stating that the Treaty of Versailles had not come about legally and that she still lives a parliamentary monarchy — without an emperor since October 28, 1918.

So this and Syt's posted item about the German coup plot are unrelated?

[Syt]

That is not a very typical domestic terrorist background.

The estimate of persons having such beliefs vary, but in general authorities estimate between 15,000-20,000 people who believe the Reichsbürger stuff in some form. Though many of them will be harmless nutters, there's probably an estimated 5-10% or so right-wing extremists and/or people with a proclivity towards violence.

[Zanza]

There is a relation between the two cases.

[Duque de Bragança]

Mad. I did not know that Treaty of Versailles truthers were a thing

Elisabeth R. has signed an open letter stating that the Treaty of Versailles had not come about legally and that she still lives a parliamentary monarchy — without an emperor since October 28, 1918.

I believe it's more the Federal Republic of Germany being denied legal existence, that the cession of Alsace and Moselle to France.
Reichsbürgerin, in her case, makes it pretty obvious.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Maybe there will be a Karlist resurgence in Spain.

[The Brain]

I haven't heard of any active movement in Sweden to reverse the 1809 military coup, but there may be.

[Razgovory]

That is not a very typical domestic terrorist background.

Religion of Peace.

[Sheilbh]

The estimate of persons having such beliefs vary, but in general authorities estimate between 15,000-20,000 people who believe the Reichsbürger stuff in some form. Though many of them will be harmless nutters, there's probably an estimated 5-10% or so right-wing extremists and/or people with a proclivity towards violence.

Yeah I still get Yi's point though. My image of a domestic terrorist is probably an angry, socially isolated young man who's radicalising on the internet. Not a 75 year old theology professor or Prince Heinrich XIII:


The whole story is very strange.

[Razgovory]

It sounds like Sovereign Citizens in the US.

[Barrister]

The whole story is very strange.

Not really.  I know in Canada we there's a sub-group of people with broadly similar ideas about how the current government is illegitimate because it's a corporation - and Canada hasn't had multiple disruptions in its basic government structure like Germany has.

Yes - often called Sovereign citizens or "free men", and they often pick up US concepts despite Canada and the US having totally different constitutional underpinnings.

[Barrister]

If you ever want to do a deep dive into "sovereign citizen" legal theory (and it's complete debunkment) here's a lengthy ALberta court decision that regularly gets cited all over Canada that goes through each and every argument and explains why it's profoundly stupid.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

[Solmyr]

Is that the grandma who wants to bring back the Kaiser?

[Sheilbh]

Is that the grandma who wants to bring back the Kaiser?

That's their proposed Kaiser, I believe.

[Malthus]

If you ever want to do a deep dive into "sovereign citizen" legal theory (and it's complete debunkment) here's a lengthy ALberta court decision that regularly gets cited all over Canada that goes through each and every argument and explains why it's profoundly stupid.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

I've seen that case cited in the wild!

It's a great, if very long, read.