2016 elections - because it's never too early

[KRonn]

News reports and the FBI's own crime stats.

Gun crime has fallen in the last 30 years but the big change was in the 1990's, not that recent.  I'm not sure why you make the distinction between gang shootings and mass shootings.  Certainly mass shootings are about numbers not intent.  Here is a list of multiple victim shootings in the US this year http://www.shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015#cite_note-4

I wasn't going by numbers, more from the type of event. I think people, probably even law enforcement, view mass shootings as things like school shootings, terrorist shootings, workplace shootings, and some other events like the PP shooting, but not so much other types of daily street crime activity. I was just separating those out. I do see the point of course as to why should the type of crime matter but I think it's helpful to understand what is being talked about in the entire stats.

This link shows the trend in gun crimes, which I've heard/seen reported for a while and it did surprise me as I figured gun crimes were going up, but I think part of it must be the more widespread reporting and/or the hot button issue it has become.

http://nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/Pages/welcome.aspx

[Razgovory]

You do know that the chart you posted shows an increase in gun crime in the last several years?

[KRonn]

Yep, and it I think it shows quite a drop over all, even with a lot more guns around.

  Homicides committed with firearms peaked in 1993 at 17,075, after which the figure steadily fell, reaching a low of 10,117 in 1999. Gun-related homicides increased slightly after that, to a high of 11,547 in 2006, before falling again to 10,869 in 2008

[The Minsky Moment]

Siege referred to Obama as a petulant child the other day, which made me laugh.  Obama can be accused of many things -- over-caution to the point of passivity, detachment, unwillingness to engage with congress, etc.  Petulance however is not one of his qualities.

Donald Trump, OTOH last night gave the best adult impression of a petulant child ever.

[Razgovory]

Yep, and it I think it shows quite a drop over all, even with a lot more guns around.

  Homicides committed with firearms peaked in 1993 at 17,075, after which the figure steadily fell, reaching a low of 10,117 in 1999. Gun-related homicides increased slightly after that, to a high of 11,547 in 2006, before falling again to 10,869 in 2008

There are more guns, but fewer gun owners.  Notice though that it falls right about the time that Clinton passed some tough gun control laws.

[Razgovory]

Siege referred to Obama as a petulant child the other day, which made me laugh.  Obama can be accused of many things -- over-caution to the point of passivity, detachment, unwillingness to engage with congress, etc.  Petulance however is not one of his qualities.

Donald Trump, OTOH last night gave the best adult impression of a petulant child ever.

He confuses "petulant" with "pendant".

[DGuller]

Yep, and it I think it shows quite a drop over all, even with a lot more guns around.

  Homicides committed with firearms peaked in 1993 at 17,075, after which the figure steadily fell, reaching a low of 10,117 in 1999. Gun-related homicides increased slightly after that, to a high of 11,547 in 2006, before falling again to 10,869 in 2008

There are more guns, but fewer gun owners.  Notice though that it falls right about the time that Clinton passed some tough gun control laws.

You're reading too much into the numbers.  The drastic fall in crime statistics (or return to previous normal, depending on how you look at it) is a big discussion of its own.  Trying to tie your pet policies to largely external trends is what gun nuts do.  Rational people should hold themselves to higher standards.  The last column is the one that should be most affected by firearm legislation, and its trend is much more subdued.

[Razgovory]

DG implied I was rational!

[DGuller]

DG implied I was rational!

You are rational, you just play dumb far too often.

[mongers]

The decline in guns deaths over the last two decades might in part be down improved emergency response and hospital care. I would be interesting to see the figures for gun incidents and injuries, especially serious woundings.

[alfred russel]

The decline in guns deaths over the last two decades might in part be down improved emergency response and hospital care. I would be interesting to see the figures for gun incidents and injuries, especially serious woundings.

Crime rates across the western world have plummeted the last two decades. There are different theories why, but i doubt it has much to do with us gun control or its absence.

[Malthus]

The decline in guns deaths over the last two decades might in part be down improved emergency response and hospital care. I would be interesting to see the figures for gun incidents and injuries, especially serious woundings.

Crime rates across the western world have plummeted the last two decades. There are different theories why, but i doubt it has much to do with us gun control or its absence.

No-one knows why crime rates, specifically violent crime rates, have fallen, though there are plenty of theories floating about (decrease in use of lead is one).

[dps]

I do see the point of course as to why should the type of crime matter

The type of crime matters because it affects how much a person feels that their own personal safety is threatened.  With gang-related crime especially, a lot of people just figure, "well, I'm not involved in the illegal drug trade or other organized criminal activity, so I'm not going to be a victim of gang violence".  Terrorism, though, has a large random element to it, so everyone can easily imagine that they could have been at the World Trade Center or the Alfred P Murrah Federal Building.

On a certain level, it's not really irrational to feel that way.  On another level, it misses the point.  If you're going to be murdered, it's probably not going to be by terrorists or gang members;  it's far, far more likely to be by a member of your own family.

[Eddie Teach]

I think many people can pretty safely rule out being murdered by a family member as well. And perhaps some should see it coming...

[alfred russel]

I think part of what drives the reaction to terrorism is that it gives a justification to divide the world into us vs them.