Breaking news: Margaret Thatcher has died

[Valmy]

I also do not see how that very interesting post about the miner's union had anything to do with whether or not reform was seamless

[Capetan Mihali]

Wouldn't you "celebrate" that person getting voted out of office or facing justice for their crimes, rather than their death? 

I think Viking's right. Thatcher and Blair never got voted out of office. They got ousted by their own party. There was no moment of catharsis for the many who hated them.

Yeah, hadn't read that far in the read, but it makes sense.  On the other hand, though (and not to be US-centric), GWB never got voted out or suffered any public repudiation.  But the 2008 election did essentially serve that function.  It was submerged a bit at the time, but I think a lot of the jubilation was releasing all the pent-up vengeance against Bush from at least '04 if not '00, rather than the naive excitement about "hope and change!" that gets attributed to it.  I gather that the UK 1990 was rather not like the US 2008.

[Capetan Mihali]

As a feature of this global news event, I'm looking at "Boys from the Blackstuff"; any good, Britons?

[Jacob]

I've just noticed the local onions were divided

That would explain the many bitter tears.

[Jacob]

I gather that the UK 1990 was rather not like the US 2008.

I think that's a fair and accurate statement.

[Capetan Mihali]

I gather that the UK 1990 was rather not like the US 2008.

I think that's a fair and accurate statement.

If only in the quality of house music.   

[Sheilbh]

As a feature of this global news event, I'm looking at "Boys from the Blackstuff"; any good, Britons?

Yes. Amazing TV.

[Capetan Mihali]

As a feature of this global news event, I'm looking at "Boys from the Blackstuff"; any good, Britons?

Yes. Amazing TV.

Any recommendation on a Ken Loach to start with?  I love Mike Leigh, but if I hadn't stumbled upon "Naked," I doubt I'd ever have gotten into it.

[Neil]

Scargill's election wasn't the turning point but it was the culmination of a period of radicalisation. The experience of success in 72 and 74, combined with deteriorating industrial relations and polarisation strengthened the hand of the militants. But for the majority of the 70s the battle was won by the old school unionists who were interested in winning advantages for the workers rather than a broader political battle - and Gormley's success on production pay undermined the NUM in 1984. The local onions were often as divided as the national leadership so some were dominated by militants while others weren't and, as in the 60s, you had local breakdowns which would cause miners to down tools. But generally the history is of a far more radicalised leadership than membership.

You're right the fight was going on for a while - I mean Gormley was a Special Branch informant precisely because he was worried about growing militancy, and Scargill - but I still think it's fair to say that the success of the radicals was in the late 70s. It ended with Scargill in charge (and he was a democratic centralist if ever there's one), but that is a shift. The miners past was that they hadn't been on strike since 1926 (I thought they had in the 30s) and were addressing real problems with their pay and conditions in the early 70s. By the 80s they were militant and political and, certainly, vanguardist.

It's certainly a convincing narrative, but having Mick McGahey (a lifelong loudmouth devotee of the Communist Party) as Vice-President of the NUM during the strike years seems to suggest that the old-school didn't have their hands as firmly on the wheel as one might hope.  There was certainly people in power in the NUM for whom 74 was all about getting rid of the Tories.  Political radicalization was alreaday happening.  Hell, the only thing keeping the Communist Party in the UK alive after Hungary was the radicalization of the trade unions, and as you well know the more militant wings of the Labour Party were no joke either.  Wilson's platform in 74 was pretty radical, after all.

What I find interesting is that the 74 strikes was more politically militant, but less violent than the 72 edition.  Rare to see that.

[Jacob]

As a feature of this global news event, I'm looking at "Boys from the Blackstuff"; any good, Britons?

Yes. Amazing TV.

Any recommendation on a Ken Loach to start with?  I love Mike Leigh, but if I hadn't stumbled upon "Naked," I doubt I'd ever have gotten into it.

I enjoyed Carla's Song, though it's one of only two Loach films I've seen.

[Neil]

I've just noticed the local onions were divided

Tory or Labour, everybody needs a little crunch in their cassarole.

[Neil]

It seems to me to be pretty natural to say that Blair is the heir to Thatcher.  Sure, he put his own spin on some of her policies, but ultimately the core of her platform stayed pretty much the same.  Ultimately, she won.  He was also the first significant PM to follow her, as Major was something of a caretaker while the country was getting used to the idea of a Labour Party that wasn't dominated by Benn/Foot nonsense.

[Josquius]

Blair was only the heir to Thatcher in that he didn't radically change the broken system she had largely created. For someone to truly be the heir to someone imo they have to actively continue their work and do more.
Blair and Thatcher are apples and oranges.

As a feature of this global news event, I'm looking at "Boys from the Blackstuff"; any good, Britons?

Yes. Amazing TV.

Any recommendation on a Ken Loach to start with?  I love Mike Leigh, but if I hadn't stumbled upon "Naked," I doubt I'd ever have gotten into it.

Kes is the awesome one which everyone of the last generation has seen.

Land and Freedom is pretty nifty too, though a bit of a departure from his usual Britain based fayre.

Pretty sure you can get most of his films, 100% officially and legally, on youtube too.

[Neil]

It must have hurt when Blair didn't reopen the coal pits.

[Josquius]

It must have hurt when Blair didn't reopen the coal pits.

No, that would be stupid.
He should have renationalised the railways though (now Major doing that was heir of Thatcher stuff).