Breaking news: Margaret Thatcher has died

[Brazen]

Following the post-Thatcher shift to centre-right, I can't imagine Britain ever fielding a sufficiently divisive government to politicise today's youth. Can you imagine One Direction and Cheryl Cole heading a Red Wedge gig? Or Vernon Kay addressing a Poll Tax protest? And Paris Brown calling (or Tweeting) for calm?*

* Warning, this post contains middle-aged Brit-centric references.

[Admiral Yi]

Jake: most of your defense of the wankishness on display over Thatcher's death has been related to directly affected communities like coal towns, but as someone else pointed out (I think Speesh) those don't seem to be the same people guzzling champagne in city squares.  They look more like hipster doofuses striking a pose.

[Gups]

The plans for the coal mining industry were less drastic than the closure program that ensued after the strike. Arthur Scargill wanted that strike, he wanted it so much that he broke NUM rules and called for a national strike without having a pithead ballot of the members. This crippled the strike action right from the start as only 70% of the "union" members obeyed the call. He also ignored the fact that massive stocks of coal had been stockpiled at power stations as provision for the (deemed very likely) action that he took. I can't speak for the other old-fashioned industries but with Scargill at the helm there was no real possibility of a consensual reduction in the coal industry.

Neil Kinnock said as much on Newsnight last night: he blames Scargill entirely because it was his antics that prevent any compromise with a leader who, at that stage, was still very pragmatic.

Scargill was not only a revolting man, but also deeply incompetent. He played a pretty good hand as badly as it was possible to. Called thestrike at the wrong time, didn't hold a ballot and employed rhetoric that made it impossible for any deal to be done.

Thatcher was poiling for a fight as well and he just played right into her hands.

[frunk]

Jake: most of your defense of the wankishness on display over Thatcher's death has been related to directly affected communities like coal towns, but as someone else pointed out (I think Speesh) those don't seem to be the same people guzzling champagne in city squares.  They look more like hipster doofuses striking a pose.

Most of the people (and their kids) affected from the coal mining towns aren't in mining towns anymore. 

[Admiral Yi]

Most of the people (and their kids) affected from the coal mining towns aren't in mining towns anymore.

Possibly.  Are you suggesting that those people celebrating are the descendents of miners?

[The Larch]

Most of the people (and their kids) affected from the coal mining towns aren't in mining towns anymore.

Possibly.  Are you suggesting that those people celebrating are the descendents of miners?

Not only miners were affected by her policies.

[CountDeMoney]

Are you suggesting that those people celebrating are the descendents of miners?

You mean...

...wait for it...

miner minors?

[Neil]

Good for you.  I did hear a lot of anti-Thatcher vitriol on the internet, but I guess I just chalked it up to hyperbole and didn't think people would be classless enough to literally pop the champagne upon hearing of her death.

People here talked a lot of shit about Reagan, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama.  But with time a lot of that hatred faded (and will fade for Obama once he's out of office for a few years).  And I guess that gets to why I in all my naivite was surprised-- that people still carried that big of a grudge against Thatcher after all this time.

I think Thatcher's impact was orders of magnitude greater. I mean, you're pretty unfond of Obama; I expect that you know some people who are fairly vitriolic towards him. But really, all the rhetoric of the American political stage aside, how much has your way of life - or that of his major detractors you may know personally - changed due to his policies? Still, there's a fair bit of vitriol aimed at the man.

Now, if we imagine that Obama's policies put you and pretty much everyone you know out of work not just now but for the next five years or more, and rather than try to put together some sort of retraining package for hardworking Americans or whatever he openly scorned you and left you to rot; I imagine the dislike you have for him would be significantly stronger and longer lasting.

I mean sure you don't like Obama, but what has he really done to you? Thatcher completely and utterly won, and she was neither merciful nor conciliatory towards those she labelled he enemies. Can you really remain surprised that those she labelled thus - and as Valmy said, gloried in their destruction - rejoice at the only victory they ever scored - outliving her?

For a Canadian example, look at Trudeau and his war on the West.  Some people are still pretty raw about that, even though his policies have been reversed and the biggest one left to haunt us is the Charter.

[Neil]

So...all the changes were inevitable.  Glad you can see that.  LOL at the empty platitudes.  Um somebody could have moved the industry out and closed the mines while working with the Unions?

No, not at all. Change was inevitable. Her changes were anything but.

Yep. Its possible. Taking a slower, more selective and bigger picture approach to closing industries/mines. Seeing the miners as victims of a changing global market, not enemies to be brutally crushed.

You're under the impression that the unions were rational actors, rather than groups that had ruled the country for the last two decades and who would react very badly indeed to anyone trying to weaken them.  And that's exactly what they did.

[Neil]

Most of the people (and their kids) affected from the coal mining towns aren't in mining towns anymore.

Possibly.  Are you suggesting that those people celebrating are the descendents of miners?

I wouldn't.  Just the typical band of left-wing doofuses.

[Josephus]

Here's a nice list of anti-Thatcher songs including The English Beat, Pink Floyd, Morissey and Sinead.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/angelameiquan/21-incredibly-angry-songs-about-margaret-thatcher

[CountDeMoney]

LOL, Morissey.  All sad, all the time.

[derspiess]

but as someone else pointed out (I think Speesh) those don't seem to be the same people guzzling champagne in city squares.  They look more like hipster doofuses striking a pose.

Garbo gets the credit for that.

[Josquius]

You're under the impression that the unions were rational actors, rather than groups that had ruled the country for the last two decades and who would react very badly indeed to anyone trying to weaken them.  And that's exactly what they did.

The unions != Scargill

[Martinus]

Apparently, there is a Facebook campaign in the UK to vote "Ding dong the witch is dead" into the national top 40 this week.