"Iberian" languages questions

[Queequeg]

Sheilbh just said that he could more or less converse in Argentine Spanish, but was totally hopeless if a group of Andalucians got together and "started talking rapidly."  This was interesting because it contradicted what I thought was my relatively well-informed picture of languages with roots in the Iberian peninsula. 

I'd guess it's not about dialects, but about pronunciation. The worst I've seen in that regard was once at a bar in Cordoba, where some friends were trying to order beer. The bartender had a really, really thick accent and spoke so fast we couldn't understand a single word. It was hilarious.

Pronunciation is a matter of dialect. 

[Duque de Bragança]

"Spanish"-including the dialects/languages of Leon, Aragon, Asturias, Castile and Andalucia.  I had thought previously that most Latin American dialects had roots in Castile and Andalucia, with maybe some Asturian.
Galician and Portuguese-Probably the Romance language in the region I know least about.

The "Spanish" you mention is really Castilian. Standard Castilian is supposed to be spoken in Valladolid and Burgos (very conservative regions shall we say).
As for Leon and Asturias, there is also still a separate language, not a dialect, Asturleonese, that is also spoken in Portugal, where it's called Mirandese, but that's another dialect. Asturleonese might be more alive than Aragonese but that's all...

As for Brazilians, there's no unified Brazilian. In Rio and in the South it's somewhat closer to Portuguese and/or less grating on the ears. São Paulo is supposed to be the most common but Brazilians are not known for respecting standards or grammar I guess Portuñol is easier between Argentines and Brazilians (vos & você personal pronouns use are comparable). After a while, Brazilians adapt to European Portuguese. I have no trouble understanding Brazilian except for some slang but I have trouble taking them seriously with their accent sometimes, specially on foreign words such as "boîte".
Bigger problem I think, is some people learning "Brazilian Portuguese" and then discovering it's only spoken there and coupled with their own accent (let's say French) it's hard for other Lusophones, even though these neophytes claim it's easier than standard Portuguese (European Portuguese is wrong since the same norms apply in Africa and wherever in Asia/Oceania it is still spoken).
Same problem with Latin American Spanish, the lack of distinction between s and c/z might be easier in the beginning but complicates things after a while cf. Andalucia where they don't pronounce final letters as well

Back to Portuguese, it's not like Lisboete Portuguese is standard anyways, it's an awful dialect and harder to understand for foreigners trying to learn Portuguese. Coimbra Portuguese is supposed to be standard but nothing like Parisian French for French.
Usually, Portuguese people understand better Brazilian than the other way around and wish they would not That's telenovelas, trash talk tv and evangelical sects for you
If you ask people in Portugal, they'll say than Angolans or Africans in general speak better Portuguese than Brazilians. Of course, a uni prof is more understandable than a favella boy from Rio fleeing from the BOPE . This Tropa de Elite reference reminds me that I understood what the cops said but not always the criminals.

[Admiral Yi]

Pronunciation is a matter of dialect.

A dialect is a pronounciation with its own army.

[garbon]

So does all this happen because speakers of Iberian languages couldn't be bothered to actually learn their language?

[Queequeg]

Not really.  Most of Europe is de facto extremely fractured linguistically, England and France are exceptions because they have history of continued central government from the 11th Century, and in the French case this is mostly because of three centuries of prejudice against Occitanian and Breton culture. 

[Queequeg]

Also, as I noted, the big linguistic divisions in Iberia are east-west because of the Reconquista.  The fractured petty northern Kingdoms all/mostly moved south, taking their dialect with them, where it frequently became vastly different. Castilian Spanish reflects extensive Germanic, Arabic and Basque influence that you don't see at all in Catalan, for instance. 

[Queequeg]

The "Spanish" you mention is really Castilian. Standard Castilian is supposed to be spoken in Valladolid and Burgos (very conservative regions shall we say).
As for Leon and Asturias, there is also still a separate language, not a dialect, Asturleonese, that is also spoken in Portugal, where it's called Mirandese, but that's another dialect. Asturleonese might be more alive than Aragonese but that's all...

I know they are different languages, but a lot of posters don't, and the fact that a distinct language (Asturleonese, for example) can have multiple names, and I think something like Aragonese is probably pretty close to Castilian, and Galician is very close to Portuguese....I used "dialects" as a shorthand as I think there are so many different socialects, dialects and languages in the Hispanic world that debating which is which could take an entire master's course. 

[Queequeg]

Yeah. I know some Granadans and I understand nothing. I barely even hear words. For me it's the speed, when they speak slowly it's not so bad. Some other Spaniards are far easier too.

I struggle with Mexicans too.

Are the two similar?

I've read that most Latin American dialects are Seville-that is, Andalucian-influenced.  Makes sense-it was the big port, and I'd guess that the March would have attracted the sort of types who would later on find colonizing the Americas attractive.  I'm not sure how far off that is from Granadan.  With that said, I can very quickly tell the difference between Mexican Spanish and most other Spanish, though due to the nature of my exposure I probably understand more Mexican Spanish than anything else.

[Iormlund]

So does all this happen because speakers of Iberian languages couldn't be bothered to actually learn their language?

Iberian languages were born in mountainous regions during the Muslim dominance. Sometimes places as small as a single valley where people were isolated from the other Christian lands.  Those surviving now are, from west to east: Galician, Astur-Leonese, Castillian, Aragonese, Aranese and Catalan.

Then there's Basque, completely unrelated to anything else around. That doesn't mean it is a pure language though. There's a lot of Latin/Castillian influence in modern Basque. And there's also a lot of Basque influence in Castillian (which was born in a region where Basque was commonly spoken).

Are the two similar?

Not to my ears. Andalusian sounds fine to me, while Latinamerican dialects really annoy me.

[garbon]

Nothing in there really speaks to Portugal though.  Also, I suppose there could also be like Psellus said vis-a-vis the inability to stamp out other forms like English and French.

[Iormlund]

Spain was for much of its history a dynastic union rather than a state. In fact even today several regions still have their own ancient law statutes (fueros).

[garbon]

More's the pity. Seems like it'd be a pain not to understand people in your own country let alone others.

[derspiess]

More's the pity. Seems like it'd be a pain not to understand people in your own country let alone others.

Ever been to Eastern Kentucky?

[garbon]

More's the pity. Seems like it'd be a pain not to understand people in your own country let alone others.

Ever been to Eastern Kentucky?

Hey I'm not saying there aren't probably parts of the US/Anglosphere - just as a general rule one doesn't have to be particularly concerned that you'll be able to understand the type of English that someone is speaking.

[Sheilbh]

Are the two similar?

I don't hear it if they are. This is when they're talking amongst themselves. The issue for me is the speed and clarity.