Is objectification necessary for attraction?

[MadImmortalMan]

One of the yahoo comments on that Esquire story said that without objectification, there could be no attraction.

Is this true? I mean, do you have to look at someone at least in part as a sex object before you can be attracted, and how is objectification defined? Does a model, male or female, who uses their attractiveness to help sell shit have a right to complain about being objectified, whatever the definition is? Is simply being attracted to a person objectifying them?

Vote both ways if you want. 

[Phillip V]

I am attracted to Hillary Clinton.

[mongers]

Of course not, we fall in love with their very soul.

[Admiral Yi]

Objectification can mean different things, depending on who's doing the speaking.

If a good looking woman says it, it means you have to pretend she's smart.

If a homely woman says it, it means you have to stop looking at good looking women.

[Viking]

But seriously.. Objectification, like Hegemony and Imperialism and Paternalism is one of those post modern "technical" terms that seems to mean whatever is most useful for the author.

I know what I mean when I use it (the denial, mockery or apathy to/of moral person-hood, agency or identity). I deny my shoe has agency, I am apathetic to the identity of a spider and I mock the moral person-hood of Raz.

What do you mean when you use it?

[Admiral Yi]

What do you mean when you use it?

I never use it.

[Viking]

What do you mean when you use it?

I never use it.

Unfortunately I do, but only when discussing Post-Modern Feminist "scholarship".

[Ideologue]

Yes.  But since there is no such thing as soul or spirit beyond biological processes, all is object.  That makes things simpler.

Of course, even if there were, the only knowledge you possess of another is the mental object you've created, so whatever makes you want to fuck that, it's still objectification.

[garbon]

Of course, even if there were, the only knowledge you possess of another is the mental object you've created, so whatever makes you want to fuck that, it's still objectification.

[Sheilbh]

Yes, possibly? It's not always a bad thing.

What do you mean when you use it?

For me the key would be a sort of commodification (whoever's objectified can be owned or replaced by one of like quality) and denial of the object's subjectivity.

I'd love to read more about the 'gaze' though, which seems relevant to what we're talking about.

[Ideologue]

Of course, even if there were, the only knowledge you possess of another is the mental object you've created, so whatever makes you want to fuck that, it's still objectification.

How is that untrue?

[garbon]

The lame bullshit about never knowing anyone else.

[Martinus]

Objectification can mean different things, depending on who's doing the speaking.

If a good looking woman says it, it means you have to pretend she's smart.

If a homely woman says it, it means you have to stop looking at good looking women.

[Martinus]

But to answer the question, if we are talking about sexual attraction, then definitely some sort of objectification is necessary.

At least objectification by men is more sincere, as they are still objectifying you because of your body, which is more innately "you", than your wallet or the kind of car you drive (which is what you are being objectified for by women).

Edit: On reflection, I have to refine this: not all males are attracted to good looking people; only alpha males are. This is because alpha males are looking for a partner they can take care of and provide for (with the eventual goal of creating offspring - even if, when you are talking about gay men, this is not biologically possible, the same impulse applies). On the other hand, beta males are looking for someone who will take care of them - which is why they are more attracted to symbols of status and power (and end up with uglier, older and/or fat sugar mommies/daddies).

Also explains why so many hipsters engage in white-knighting, fat acceptance and have uglier and older partners - since hipsters are probably the world's most "pure" beta male demographic.

I wonder if similar tendencies can be seen among women too, or are the chicks who end up as sugar mommies just settling?

[garbon]

Marti's attempts to enter the seduction community are even more nauseating than Drak's.