Would you consider your spouse getting fat a good reason for divorce?

[merithyn]

Here's what the university of rochester had to say:

http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/highland/departments-centers/bariatrics/right-for-you/morbid-obesity.aspx
http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/highland/departments-centers/bariatrics/right-for-you/morbid-obesity/related-conditions.aspx

Morbid obesity is diagnosed by determining Body Mass Index (BMI). BMI is defined by the ratio of an individual's height to his or her weight. Normal BMI ranges from 20-25. See BMI on back panel. An individual is considered morbidly obese if he or she is 100 pounds over his/her ideal body weight, has a BMI of 40 or more, or 35 or more and experiencing obesity-related health conditions, such as high blood pressure or diabetes.

And as it is possible that both apnea and depression stemmed from the obesity...

That's already been covered, g, further up the thread.

Yes, it is possible. That doesn't mean, however, that she was.

[crazy canuck]

Maple Syrup is pure awesomeness.  Once my wife tried it she literally threw out the "maple-flavored" syrup we had.  We still buy the cheap stuff for the kids but for me if it's not real maple syrup, why bother.

[Legbiter]

I'll stop complaining about fat acceptance if cigar-smoking acceptance takes hold

Fat acceptance = Delusion and narcissism given a spin on the female rationalization hamster wheel.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, I too like to sauté spinach in the pan alongside the steak.

That is a great idea

[Berkut]

Being co-morbid means having two issues that affect a person's health at the same time, ie asthma and diabetes are co-morbid. Morbidly obese means, specifically, that the obesity is causing the health issues. If her sleep apnea isn't caused by her weight, then while she is overweight with sleep apnea, she is not morbidly obese.

No, being morbidly obese means you are obese with a co-morbid condition. There is no way to definitevly know what is causing a specific persons sleep apnea, for example.

If it meant what you demand that it means, then nobody would ever be clinically morbidly obese under that definition, since it could always be some condition other than their obesity causing their apnea, or diabetes, or heart disease, or GRD, or depression, or high blood pressure, or heart disease.

Every single one of those could have nothing to do with obesity...but probably do not. None of them can be definitely and directly diagnosed as certainly being the result of a particular persons obesity...but chances are pretty good that if you are obese, and have some or all of those conditions, it is related.

Finally, statistically, it matters not one bit. If you are clinically obese, AND you have co-morbid conditions, then you are at a much greater risk for death than someone with either conditions alone. This is why the standards for things like bariatric surgery are BMI>35 (or whatever) with 1 or more co-morbidity conditions, or a BMI > 40 without said conditions.

I am puzzled at your resistance to this purely clinical definition. If she has a BMI >35, and she exhibits one or more of these conditions, she is clinically morbidly obese. You can argue this until you are blue in the face, but it won't change the definition. There is no demand that the condition be definitely caused by the obesity. Hell, it probably doesn't even matter statistically. Even if you could prove that her apnea is NOT caused by her obesity, her risk of dying is still going to be statistically much higher if she has it than if she did not.

What is Morbid Obesity?

Morbid obesity means that a person is so overweight that his or her well-being and health are actually in jeopardy. It is defined in several different ways:

Weighing more than 100 pounds over your ideal body weight. The ideal body weight is determined by the Metropolitan Life Insurance table, has been in existence for many years (since 1959) and is based on mathematical formulas that the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company used to determine insurance risks. Most doctors have gotten away from using this table because it is very difficult to use (with separate categories for "frame size" and for men and women) and can be inaccurate.

A Body Mass Index (BMI) equal to or greater than 35 Kg/M2 in a person who has associated medical problems such as high blood pressure, sleep apnea, or diabetes. The BMI relates one's weight to his or her height in an attempt to generate a common denominator for all individuals.

A Body Mass Index (BMI) equal to or greater than 40 Kg/M2 in a person who either does or does not have any other medical problems. Use our free online BMI calculator to determine your BMI.

[Berkut]

Here's what the university of rochester had to say:

http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/highland/departments-centers/bariatrics/right-for-you/morbid-obesity.aspx
http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/highland/departments-centers/bariatrics/right-for-you/morbid-obesity/related-conditions.aspx

Morbid obesity is diagnosed by determining Body Mass Index (BMI). BMI is defined by the ratio of an individual's height to his or her weight. Normal BMI ranges from 20-25. See BMI on back panel. An individual is considered morbidly obese if he or she is 100 pounds over his/her ideal body weight, has a BMI of 40 or more, or 35 or more and experiencing obesity-related health conditions, such as high blood pressure or diabetes.

And as it is possible that both apnea and depression stemmed from the obesity...

That's already been covered, g, further up the thread.

Yes, it is possible. That doesn't mean, however, that she was.

Yes, actually it does.

If she went to a doctor and said "Hey doc, my BMI is 36, and I suffer from sleep apnea and depression...am I clinically morbidly obese?" He would not say "Gee, that depends, what caused your depression and apnea? We can't know until we find out, which, btw, is actually not possible!"

No, he would say "Yes, you meet the clinical definition. Your risk of dying is greater than someone with a BMI of 36 but no co-morbid conditions".

[garbon]

Here's what the university of rochester had to say:

http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/highland/departments-centers/bariatrics/right-for-you/morbid-obesity.aspx
http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/highland/departments-centers/bariatrics/right-for-you/morbid-obesity/related-conditions.aspx

Morbid obesity is diagnosed by determining Body Mass Index (BMI). BMI is defined by the ratio of an individual's height to his or her weight. Normal BMI ranges from 20-25. See BMI on back panel. An individual is considered morbidly obese if he or she is 100 pounds over his/her ideal body weight, has a BMI of 40 or more, or 35 or more and experiencing obesity-related health conditions, such as high blood pressure or diabetes.

And as it is possible that both apnea and depression stemmed from the obesity...

That's already been covered, g, further up the thread.

Yes, it is possible. That doesn't mean, however, that she was.

Yes, actually it does.

If she went to a doctor and said "Hey doc, my BMI is 36, and I suffer from sleep apnea and depression...am I clinically morbidly obese?" He would not say "Gee, that depends, what caused your depression and apnea? We can't know until we find out, which, btw, is actually not possible!"

No, he would say "Yes, you meet the clinical definition. Your risk of dying is greater than someone with a BMI of 36 but no co-morbid conditions".

And even if it worked the Meri said - wouldn't it be safer to suggest to such a person that they are morbidly obese and need to take steps as a corrective - rather than playing the odds that their obesity wasn't a complicating factor?

[Iormlund]

Yeah, like your meal plan is boring as hell. I'd give it up after about a week, IF I lasted that long. Rule #1 of any diet plan: It has to be something you can and will stick with.

That IMO highlights one of the big problems.  People find healthy meals boring, and treat eating them like taking a medicine.  They're brought up on exactly the kind of foods that are terrible for them.  Of course healthy eating is not going to work long-term in that case without some kind of strong psychological reinforcement.

In that sense I feel that I'm very lucky, because I actually enjoy eating salads and vegetables, feel mostly indifferent about deep-fried food, and abhor overly complex fatty meals.  Few things beat a fresh Greek salad with a good dressing based on extra virgin olive oil.  If I could only loose that sweet tooth, I would be golden.

I had never really thought about it, but a gal pointed to me the other day how I eat unusually healthy food for the typical bachelor. My diet hasn't come as a conscious decision, though. I guess I'm fortunate not to like fast food. My diet is typically based on rice, legumes and dark vegetables (now that I can finally eat them), eggs, lots of olive oil and some meat or fish 5 or so times a week -- mostly pork, chicken, salmon, tuna, megrim and swordfish. Also, no alcohol.

Perhaps because of this I'm one of 2 people in the office without cholesterol, triglycerides or blood pressure problems -- and the other guy is a physical portent (used to be a pro athlete).

[Berkut]

What is more interesting than whether or not she is morbidly obese (she clearly is by the clinical definition) but why people, in this case Meri, would be so adamant about denying it.

You are basically denying that her weight is likely to cause her to not live as long as she ought to, and that is really very sad. Because it is certainly the case that her statistical life expectancy is shorter, and denyong that this is true makes it much, much worse, since it is basically saying "Hey, ignore the stats! Keep doing what you are doing! You aren't really putting your life at risk, don't worry about it!"

Yeah, you might as well argue that a smoker isn't really a smoker, because a pack or so a day doesn't count, and there are plenty of people who smoke more and live plenty long, and besides, you can't prove that your lung cancer came from smoking - heck, my friend has never smoked a day in his life and HE got lung cancer, therefore lung cancer is not certainly the result of smoking, so light up another one!

[merithyn]

Berk, you can definitely tell what causes sleep apnea. It's part of the tests they run.

But the rest of your argument stands. Okay, stjaba left his morbidly obese girlfriend because he was so concerned for her health that he had to go. I'm sure that was the case.

[garbon]

Okay, stjaba left his morbidly obese girlfriend because he was so concerned for her health that he had to go. I'm sure that was the case.

I thought we'd already established that it has to do with lack of desire to try and change / not finding an individual attractive anymore.

[merithyn]

What is more interesting than whether or not she is morbidly obese (she clearly is by the clinical definition) but why people, in this case Meri, would be so adamant about denying it.

You are basically denying that her weight is likely to cause her to not live as long as she ought to, and that is really very sad. Because it is certainly the case that her statistical life expectancy is shorter, and denyong that this is true makes it much, much worse, since it is basically saying "Hey, ignore the stats! Keep doing what you are doing! You aren't really putting your life at risk, don't worry about it!"

Yeah, you might as well argue that a smoker isn't really a smoker, because a pack or so a day doesn't count, and there are plenty of people who smoke more and live plenty long, and besides, you can't prove that your lung cancer came from smoking - heck, my friend has never smoked a day in his life and HE got lung cancer, therefore lung cancer is not certainly the result of smoking, so light up another one!

Okay.

[Valmy]

Okay, stjaba left his morbidly obese girlfriend because he was so concerned for her health that he had to go. I'm sure that was the case.

Eh it is not like you need a good reason to leave a girlfriend.  It is not like you are married.  I mean they were what...23?  Besides the whole depression and developing physical problems sounds like a bit of a buzz kill.

[derspiess]

I'll stop complaining about fat acceptance if cigar-smoking acceptance takes hold

Fat acceptance = Delusion and narcissism given a spin on the female rationalization hamster wheel.

That's pretty much it.

[crazy canuck]

Berk, you can definitely tell what causes sleep apnea. It's part of the tests they run.

Actually no.  The tests they run can indicate that sleep apnea exists but  the condition has multiple causes and in people who are obese the obesity itself is one of the contributing causes.

If by test they run you mean the say, hey you are fat and that is one of the things that causes sleep anpnea then yes that is something they will say - the doctor will then recommend that the patient lose wieght.