Would you consider your spouse getting fat a good reason for divorce?

[Malthus]

It works on the short-term, but diets have proven to be incredibly ineffective in the long-term. The only way to keep weight off is through life-style changes that are permanent, as opposed to fad diets, or even diet plans like Weight Watchers.

Agreed, any plan to lose weigh by dieting is ineffective unless it is combined with a plan to maintain healthy habits thereafter. That isn't the same as 'dieting doesn't work'. It's a tool, and it works for a particular task.

See my post to garbon.

Unfortunately, your cite doesn't say what you think it does.

What part of what I posted shows my friend being stupid about her health? She's made massive changes to her lifestyle. Her weight is trending down. Her health is better than it's been in a decade. She knows that she still has a long way to go, and is continuing down the right path. How is that "fooling" herself about her own health? By saying, "I own who I am, and I am beautiful" she has the self-esteem to keep going in that direction. The other option is to listen to all of the people calling her fat, and ugly, and gross, which will send her into depression, which will undo all the work she's already put in.

If she is actually *getting* healthy, then nothing. If she's of the view that she already *is* healthy and so needs make no change, than everything.

Read the article again. Yes, she's embracing her shape, but she's STILL working on being healthy

Nope, she simply asserts that she is *already* healthy.

What she gave up on was the idea that she had to be thin to be beautiful. And if her husband doesn't agree, then he needs to go. If he's willing to take her as she is, well, that's on him. God knows that plenty of women have stayed with their alcoholic husbands because ultimately, they were better off with them (in their mind) than without.

Sure - so can we now list "drunk acceptance" alongside "fat acceptance"?

I want to touch on the bolded part again. She's not saying that she's given up on being healthy. She's continuing the changes that they made together. What she's giving up on is the idea that in order to be beautiful, she has to be thin. Instead, she's saying, "You know what, fuck you all (husband included). I AM beautiful right now. Who I am is beautiful. Take it or leave it."

First, her healthiness is based purely on her self-assessment.

Second, if he doesn't find the fat her beautiful, that's not some moral failing on his part. He *still* doesn't find her beautiful - he's willing to put up with her being (to him) ugly. Frankly, that sucks in a relationship.

I think people ought to work to accomodate their partners' preferences, not simply say "fuck you - I'm fat/I drink/I smoke, deal with it or get the fuck out". What that demonstrates is that the person doing the demanding values eating to excess, drinking to excess or smoking over their partner. It's narcissism, particularly where what the partner is complaining about is an unhealthy as well as unattractive lifestyle choice.

This isn't to say the woman in the article should magically transform herself into a supermodel. Just that she appears to be giving up any attempt at trying. I can't applaud that choice.

[merithyn]

I'm not going to shun someone who's fat. But I will ignore them when it comes to mating rituals. That's not a conscious decision. I simply don't find fat people attractive, just as I don't fancy walking sticks.

My boss is obese and I haven't seen anyone insult him or shun him.

As for how hard it is to change habits, let me continue with him as an example: After years of half-assed diets and 'this is too hard' he was recently diagnosed with a deadly mix of hypertension, faulty heart valve and severe dilation of the aorta. It literally took the doctors to tell him he's going to die to make something about his habits. He's managed to lose a lot of weight this past year, despite being unable to exercise at all (his aorta could blow up). Sadly after a year of effort his body is getting used to the new norm and he is stalling, still in danger zone.
Like your friend, he should have never got there in the first place. If he had done half what he's doing now for the last 20 years, he'd be in top shape and would not be facing frightening odds on open heart surgery. That he is doing it now certainly proves he could have done it all along.

Given that he doesn't have a time machine and can't go backwards, that's not really very helpful, is it?

[Malthus]

The real problem is that many of us have jobs that enforce sedentary habits - exercise is an "extra" done in free time; our working hours are spend sitting at a desk. We who have such occupations have to learn to eat accordingly and make the time to exercise, neither of which is easy.

I think exercise is vastly over-rated, at least when it comes to weight loss.  It doesn't burn that many calories, it is a chore that is very hard to keep at long term, and it may raise your caloric intake requirements.  I think being sensible about what you eat has a much bigger impact than an unsustainable exercise regimen.

I agree - exercise isn't for weight loss but for overall health. Losing weight isn't the only goal - better health (and appearance!) is.

[fhdz]

I agree - exercise isn't for weight loss but for overall health. Losing weight isn't the only goal - better health (and appearance!) is.

Exercise keeps you from looking like a skinbag once you *do* drop the weight

It also does engage your metabolism, so weight loss from a combination of healthy eating + exercise is always going to be better weight loss than from just healthy eating.

[Martinus]

Incidentally, I gotta say that based on anecdotal evidence, a lot of situations where people can't lose weight despite "trying" does not come from genetics, or even laziness, but actual ignorance of what is and is not healthy.

Unfortunately, as I said before, losing weight and overally improving one's health requires a considerable shift in life style and (unless you are willing to hire a personal chef) a considerable amount of work - something a lot of people are unable or unwilling to do. So they think that if they buy a "healthy" salad at McDonald's or a ready made "health-option" meal at Tesco (or starve themselves with low nutrition food) they are actually trying to lose weight - and then act all surprised, give up and/or blame genetics when this does jack shit.

And let's not forget that in many places healthy food options come with a price tag - or are even unavailable (e.g. a small town with a couple of Tescos/Walmarts, and no farmer's market).

[DGuller]

Another example:  a couple of days ago I was in a suburban Shoprite, the kind that represents America better than any supermarket in NYC area, and it had a lot of prepared food.  While it certainly had a good salad bar and fruit bar section, the hot food section was just atrocious.  It was either a whole bunch of deep-friend Chinese food, or a whole bunch of deep fried food products.  Very few items were free of that golden shine. 

That in my mind isn't a sign of bad choices a Shoprite chef made, but rather a sign of what kind of food Americans consider normal.  Of course you have to wash down that mountain of shit with 2 liters of Coke if you want it to slide down your throat at all.

[Valmy]

My sense is that most people who "can't lose weight" are probably foodaholics, similar to how an alcoholic just "can't stop" drinking even though that might seem like the easiest thing in the world to everyone else.

Dude it is bad.  I have pretty much come to accept once I am done with this degree program I am probably going to be a Weight Watcher's lifer.  I just have to have that accountability.

[Valmy]

Exercise keeps you from looking like a skinbag once you *do* drop the weight

It also does engage your metabolism, so weight loss from a combination of healthy eating + exercise is always going to be better weight loss than from just healthy eating.

Generally I do not feel hungry after I work out.  Weird huh?  So I end up eating less.

[Martinus]

Not eating after work-out is a mistake and will lead to malnutrition.

[Valmy]

Not eating after work-out is a mistake and will lead to malnutrition.

True.  But all I said was I eat less...as in I do not over-eat.  Starvation has never been a serious concern of mine 

[fhdz]

Not eating after work-out is a mistake and will lead to malnutrition.

I like to work out on an empty stomach and eat afterward.

[stjaba]

And by the way, "morbidly obese" is 100 pounds or more overweight, not 35 BMI or higher. (Not aimed at you, Marti; I just don't remember who made the comment.) Given that the BMI doesn't measure muscle mass in any way, no doctor worth his or her salt would diagnose someone as "morbidly obese" based on the BMI, unless it was well over 40.

Neither of us are experts. Wikipedia claims:

A BMI of ≥ 35 and experiencing obesity-related health conditions or ≥40–44.9 is morbid obesity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity#cite_note-morbid2007-15

So, a BMI of 35 can include morbid obesity.

Second off, I have seen plenty of medical records now at my job. It's not uncommon to see morbid obesity listed when the patient was less than a 100 pounds overweight.

[Valmy]

You all poke at me about this topic, but the reality is that in general, there is an utter lack of compassion for those struggling with their weight.

I do not find this true at all.  I have never heard anybody say 'man I am trying to work out and lose weight but it is really hard' and have the response be 'loser, TRY HARDER' generally everybody gets it or at least gives the person props for trying.  But granted I live in a state of fat people.

[stjaba]

Unfortunately, as I said before, losing weight and overally improving one's health requires a considerable shift in life style and (unless you are willing to hire a personal chef) a considerable amount of work - something a lot of people are unable or unwilling to do. So they think that if they buy a "healthy" salad at McDonald's or a ready made "health-option" meal at Tesco (or starve themselves with low nutrition food) they are actually trying to lose weight - and then act all surprised, give up and/or blame genetics when this does jack shit.

Concur completely. My obese ex used to purchase low calorie desserts. Good in theory- except she'd scarf down several of them a day. 

Or she would go for a walk- then reward herself with a high calorie/sugar McDonalds iced coffee afterwards, completely negating the value of the walk.

[merithyn]

And by the way, "morbidly obese" is 100 pounds or more overweight, not 35 BMI or higher. (Not aimed at you, Marti; I just don't remember who made the comment.) Given that the BMI doesn't measure muscle mass in any way, no doctor worth his or her salt would diagnose someone as "morbidly obese" based on the BMI, unless it was well over 40.

Neither of us are experts. Wikipedia claims:

A BMI of ≥ 35 and experiencing obesity-related health conditions or ≥40–44.9 is morbid obesity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity#cite_note-morbid2007-15

So, a BMI of 35 can include morbid obesity.

Second off, I have seen plenty of medical records now at my job. It's not uncommon to see morbid obesity listed when the patient was less than a 100 pounds overweight.

And was your 5'5", 185-pound ex "experiencing obesity-related health issues"? Or are you just throwing around terms to make it seem more okay to dump her because she gained a few pounds more than you thought she should?