Chávez dead

[fhdz]

Raz, what is the failed coup against Chavez supposed to tell us about Chavez's character?

I never said anything of the sort.   Chavez is bad because he attempted to launch a coup.  Someone one launches a coup against him nobody seems to be that paticularly concerned.

The thread's about Chavez

Also, in the interest of fairness, that was only one of the "Chavez was bad because" points.

[Razgovory]

Interesting that criticism of Chavez seems to provoke a reaction from Raz

What is interesting is that some nobody from South America has captured the imagination of the American right wing for a decade.

[fhdz]

What is interesting is that some nobody from South America has captured the imagination of the American right wing for a decade.

I wouldn't say a person presiding over the country with the 13th-largest oil production in the world is a "nobody", regardless of how goofy he is.

[derspiess]

Interesting that criticism of Chavez seems to provoke a reaction from Raz

What is interesting is that some nobody from South America has captured the imagination of the American right wing for a decade.

He was far from a nobody.  He ruled a significant South American country whose interests intersected quite a bit with US interests.  He aligned himself with our biggest opponent in the hemisphere (not to mention our opponents in other parts of the world) and did his part to undermine regional security in his part of the world. 

But maybe that requires too much thought for you.  Much easier to just see that he pisses off the Right and assume he must be a non-issue.

[Razgovory]

Raz, what is the failed coup against Chavez supposed to tell us about Chavez's character?

I never said anything of the sort.   Chavez is bad because he attempted to launch a coup.  Someone one launches a coup against him nobody seems to be that paticularly concerned.

The thread's about Chavez

Also, in the interest of fairness, that was only one of the "Chavez was bad because" points.

The real "Chavez is bad points is that he was a leftist and that he said mean things about GWB."  The Coup thing is bullshit.  Like I pointed out, Latin America had a coup in 2009, nobody gives a flying fuck.  So lets not all pretend we are principled about S. American Democracy.  Shelf points out the man isn't actually a dictator and he's accused of defending him!

Let's face it, the right wing has been told that this is an evil man who endangers America for last decade, so when the guy dies who do we see cheering?  Why it's the our right wing usual suspects all cheering.  Amazing.  So yeah, I'm suggesting there is a partisan aspect of this.  Our more conservative friends were quite a bit more subdued when Pinochet died, and he was a dictator who launched a successful coup.

[Razgovory]

Interesting that criticism of Chavez seems to provoke a reaction from Raz

What is interesting is that some nobody from South America has captured the imagination of the American right wing for a decade.

He was far from a nobody.  He ruled a significant South American country whose interests intersected quite a bit with US interests.  He aligned himself with our biggest opponent in the hemisphere (not to mention our opponents in other parts of the world) and did his part to undermine regional security in his part of the world. 

But maybe that requires too much thought for you.  Much easier to just see that he pisses off the Right and assume he must be a non-issue.

Our biggest opponent in the hemisphere?  A backward island with same population as Ohio?  Did he actually attack US soldiers, kill American civilians?  What?

[fhdz]

The real "Chavez is bad points is that he was a leftist and that he said mean things about GWB."

I'm pretty sure people in this thread have offered up points about why Chavez was Not A Good Guy which were not those particular points.

You definitely have a point about partisanship affecting the vigor and tenor of one's argument, though. I have noticed you do the same thing.

[Razgovory]

What is interesting is that some nobody from South America has captured the imagination of the American right wing for a decade.

I wouldn't say a person presiding over the country with the 13th-largest oil production in the world is a "nobody", regardless of how goofy he is.

Can you tell me which guy is number 12 without looking on Google?

[fhdz]

Can you tell me which guy is number 12 without looking on Google?

Nope. But just because I don't know #12 doesn't make him a nobody either.

[EDIT: wow, are there a lot of negatives in that sentence. ]

[Razgovory]

The real "Chavez is bad points is that he was a leftist and that he said mean things about GWB."

I'm pretty sure people in this thread have offered up points about why Chavez was Not A Good Guy which were not those particular points.

You definitely have a point about partisanship affecting the vigor and tenor of one's argument, though. I have noticed you do the same thing.

Yeah, shelf.  But he's not the one cheering this on and calling the man a dictator.  Riddle me this, why is that the right wing are the ones so concerned about Chavez?  Most of the world really isn't.

[Razgovory]

Can you tell me which guy is number 12 without looking on Google?

Nope. But just because I don't know #12 doesn't make him a nobody either.

[EDIT: wow, are there a lot of negatives in that sentence. ]

Yet number 13 is worth remembering.

[CountDeMoney]

Raz, what is the failed coup against Chavez supposed to tell us about Chavez's character?

About roughly the same thing as the failed coup Chavez instigated in '92 tells us about Chavez's character, maybe?

[Admiral Yi]

What a strange discussion.  Raz, mongers, and The Nation all seem to have adopted the same party line when it comes to discussing Chavez and his legacy: right-wingers were irrationally obsessed with him. 

It has the advantage of distracting attention from his abundant failings, but it has the disadvantage of not being supported by the evidence.  Chavez had a brief blip of notoriety when it came to light he was supporting FARC, and rightly so.  Supporting an narco-insurgency against a democratic ally is no laughing matter.  He had another 10 seconds of fame when he called Bushitler the Devilhitler at the UN.  Then another two day news cycle when it appeared he was cultivating ties with Iran.  Other than that he has been a nonentity.

As a side note, I was amused by The Nation's temerity in citing Carter's original approval of Chavez' 2nd election, as he has gone on record since as saying though he observed irregularities, he decided not to mention them because he was concerned doing so might lead to disorder or somesuch.

[Ed Anger]

spocoli sucked his dick.

[derspiess]

Our biggest opponent in the hemisphere?

Yes.

A backward island with same population as Ohio?  Did he actually attack US soldiers, kill American civilians?  What?

Your standards for "opponent" seem a bit strict.  Fidel Castro and the Cuban government oppose us.  They've said as much themselves.