It's Rove and Co. vs. Tea Party: Let the GOP civil war begin

Started by jimmy olsen, February 04, 2013, 10:28:49 AM

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jimmy olsen

Here's hoping the establishment prevails. I'm skeptical that it will though.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16837836-first-thoughts-gop-establishment-strikes-back?lite

QuoteFirst Thoughts: GOP establishment strikes back

By Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Brooke Brower, NBC News

*** GOP establishment strikes back: This year was always going to be about two big political stories -- President Obama's ability to work with congressional Republicans (on the budget, immigration), and the Republican Party's effort to define itself after its shellacking in 2012. And today we examine that second story. The Sunday New York Times reported that the Karl Rove-backed American Crossroads organization is creating an offshoot, called the Conservative Victory Project, to counter the influence of groups like Club for Growth and the Senate Conservatives Fund. Its mission: to spend money in GOP primaries to make sure that candidates like Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Sharron Angle, and Christine O'Donnell don't become the nominees for key Senate contests. "In effect, the establishment is taking steps to fight back against Tea Party groups and other conservative organizations that have wielded significant influence in backing candidates who ultimately lost seats to Democrats in the general election," the Times said, adding that the Conservative Victory Project's first effort could be in Iowa, where conservative Rep. Steve King is mulling a Senate bid.

*** Republicans, let's get ready to ... rumble: Rove and Crossroads promised that they would launch this kind of effort, after losing winnable Senate races in Missouri and Indiana last year, as well as in Colorado, Delaware and Nevada in 2010. Yet this establishment effort to nominate better candidates is probably going to make things more painful in the short term, not less. First, these conservative groups are already firing back. "Both the Club for Growth and the Senate Conservatives Fund ... mocked the new initiative as yet another hapless establishment-side attempt to muzzle the GOP base," Politico writes. "Club for Growth spokesman Barney Keller essentially responded by pointing to the scoreboard in recent primaries in which conservative insurgents have prevailed and emerged as influential GOP leaders. 'They are welcome to support the likes of Arlen Specter, Charlie Crist and David Dewhurst,' Keller said of the new Crossroads group." Second, the establishment-backed candidates haven't always succeeded in general elections, either. After all, folks like Denny Rehberg in Montana and Rick Berg in North Dakota also lost winnable races last year. And third, how much credibility does Crossroads have after its results last year? Bottom line: This effort was bound to happen, but this is going to be ugly -- as both the populist and establishment wings try to become, well, the NEW establishment. The question is whether these more public primary fights help redefine the party in time for 2016.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Sheilbh

Why'd you want the establishment to prevail? Surely they're the ones to blame for things getting to this sort of situation.
Let's bomb Russia!

MadImmortalMan

My only question is which side would be more appealing to voters if they win the struggle.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Maximus

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 05, 2013, 12:52:55 PM
Why'd you want the establishment to prevail? Surely they're the ones to blame for things getting to this sort of situation.
Just because the establishment is bad doesn't mean that a particular flavour of radicals isn't worse.

Valmy

Quote from: Maximus on February 05, 2013, 01:11:30 PM
Just because the establishment is bad doesn't mean that a particular flavour of radicals isn't worse.

That is not a very revolutionary point of view :(
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: Maximus on February 05, 2013, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 05, 2013, 12:52:55 PM
Why'd you want the establishment to prevail? Surely they're the ones to blame for things getting to this sort of situation.
Just because the establishment is bad doesn't mean that a particular flavour of radicals isn't worse.

They could be less electable though.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

DGuller

Hopefully establishment wins, but not before realizing that they have to cool down the overheated divisve rhetoric, or the extremist scum will keep splintering off after mistaking the useful bullshit for truth.

Maximus


Sheilbh

Quote from: Maximus on February 05, 2013, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 05, 2013, 12:52:55 PM
Why'd you want the establishment to prevail? Surely they're the ones to blame for things getting to this sort of situation.
Just because the establishment is bad doesn't mean that a particular flavour of radicals isn't worse.
No. But they're necessary to smash the old establishment. As I say they're the ones who enabled the rise of the Tea Party and they're (with the honourable exception of Rove) the leadership that have lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 Presidential elections. That's not an establishment that's worth defending or cheering on.

But I think it's a false choice. Firstly because I don't think the Tea Party is that coherent and tightly bound. Is Rubio still a Tea Partier, for example?

Secondly because it doesn't mention the figures (who've attracted lots of conservative and Tea Party support in the past) who I'd expect to form a new establishment. People like, for example, Christie, Jindal, Rubio and, based on early reports, Cruz.

I think that's a far more promising base for a party than the Karl Roves or Bill Kristols.
Let's bomb Russia!

garbon

I would think Tim considers them part of the establishment as they are all fairly mainstream at this point.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

crazy canuck

Any chance of a more electable third option emerging?  Something along the lines of what happened in Canada when the right had to remake itself.

katmai

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

merithyn

Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2013, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 05, 2013, 01:11:30 PM
Just because the establishment is bad doesn't mean that a particular flavour of radicals isn't worse.

That is not a very revolutionary point of view :(

He's Canadian. They don't have revolutions. They fight The Power with attrition.

Queen: Do we still own that nation in North America?
Prime Minister: Yes, ma'am.
Queen: Why?
Prime Minister: Because we haven't gotten rid of them yet, and they haven't left on their own?
Queen: Hmm. I say we cut them loose.
Prime Minister: Very good, ma'am.
Canadians: We win! :yeah:
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

Neil

Wouldn't it make more sense to base the new Republicans on Richard Nixon, the greatest Republican of them all?
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Razgovory

I have a question:  Is the "establishment" materially different from the "tea party"?  I mean ideologically.  Bobby Jindal came out two weeks ago with a speech about how the GOP needs to stop being the "stupid" party.  This meant, they need to stop saying stupid things that are repellant to voters.  However he also said that he didn't want the Republican party to really change it's platform or water down it's ideas.  These seems like an impossible task, stupid statements naturally flow from stupid policies and ideas.  So long as they hold to the same beliefs people are going to articulate them.  Just giving the car a new paint job won't help a car much if it has a cracked engine block.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017