The Elder Scrolls Online

[Lndhand]

Same opening sequence for all toons was lazy imo and did not make me appreciate my race.  Forcing me to aim my reticle to target something is very fail imo (vastly prefer tab targeting).  I do not like the skill system and the abilities appeared underwhelming.  I do not like the limited number of ability buttons on the interface.  I do not like leveling weapons and armor for new skills.  I get they are making you go between class skills and weapon skills but I do not like it.  I do not like having every class being able to CC/Tank/Heal/DPS.  I prefer classes that have roles.

I liked the world - good enough graphics to be nice but not crazy that makes the game laggy.  I like the questing, but almost felt too linear.  Hopefully that opens up some as you level.  I would like to try the game more before I make a definitive call but I'm strongly leaning toward do not buy.         

[Alcibiades]

Sounds like I may like it exactly for the reasons you don't... 

[Lndhand]

I do not know your taste in games, but yes, my gripes are largely taste issues.  The programming and play-ability of the game are just fine. 

[crazy canuck]

I do not like having every class being able to CC/Tank/Heal/DPS.

Raises a big red flag for me too.  I can understand a single player game that has that kind of flexibility but in an MMO it raises a lot of issues around the mechanics of group play and particularly loot assignment.  Things were bad enough in WoW back in the day.  If everyone can potentially do everything its going to get ugly in PUGs.

[Iormlund]

Meh. That's easily solved by having loot rolls give preference to spec ala LFR.

Personally I like having a class that can do it all. Comes in really handy when your healer/tank is a moron or drops out, as well. The real issue for me is that each class/spec does things differently.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Yeah, I'm with cc, I like differentiated classes with different clear cut roles. I do think that's something WoW did decently, there's definitely a balance to be struck.

When I played EverQuest, no dungeons could be done without a Cleric or Druid to heal, and realistically once you hit max level you needed a Cleric. Druids were true multi-purposes classes and could solo well and do dps and so were fun to level up. A Cleric in EverQuest literally could not solo at all past level 8-9 or so, and levelling in EverQuest took around 3-4 times as long as in WoW. Warriors were in the same boat, absolutely essential to the game but because they did virtually no damage and had no self-healing, they could not solo at all either--but they were the only class that could tank a dungeon at max level.

That left a lot of the hybrids like Paladins, Shadowknights, without a clearly defined role in the game and also made forming groups a nightmare of waiting/begging to find a tank or healer (who could only come from one class each and they were the most boring, difficult classes to level up which made them extremely rare commodities.)

In early WoW there was at least no class/spec combo that could not solo 1-60, which is key for allowing those classes to flourish. There was also no issue with a druid or Paladin tanking the dungeons, although in classic WoW and Burning Crusade none of the hybrid tanks could handle the  20/40 (10/25 man) raids. All of the healing classes in WoW were viable for both dungeons and raiding from day one, which was nice. The one annoyance with WoW is if you were a Priest specced for healing (like I was) any kind of farming for various materials or solo questing was slow and frustrating. I felt that the ability to hot-swap talent specializations mostly alleviated that concern. It did open up the flood gates to more shitty behavior, like full time healers arguing they should get equal rights to DPS gear, but if you played mostly with friends or within a guild you didn't run into that as much.

When I quit, WoW had good availability of tanks/healers but you still had to specialize (through experience and gearing, gemming/enchanting) enough that you had to pick a clear primary role for your character (tank/dps/healz), but Blizzard was nice enough to give you some ability to do some stuff with your off spec more reasonably. I'm fine with that system, a system where any class can be anything though, just feels like why even have classes.

[crazy canuck]

Meh. That's easily solved by having loot rolls give preference to spec ala LFR.

But that is exactly the problem - in a game where everyone can potentially do everything "spec" becomes a real issue.  Its almost impossible to avoid the "Why the hell did you roll need on that" problem.

[Iormlund]

...a system where any class can be anything though, just feels like why even have classes.

Following that logic, why have more than three classes?

Meh. That's easily solved by having loot rolls give preference to spec ala LFR.

But that is exactly the problem - in a game where everyone can potentially do everything "spec" becomes a real issue.  Its almost impossible to avoid the "Why the hell did you roll need on that" problem.

So you do what Blizz did in Pandarian for LFR: each character has his or her own loot roll. Problem solved.

[MadImmortalMan]

Following that logic, why have more than three classes?

Why have any?

Pretty much everything lndhand complained about is stuff I want as well. It wouldn't be Bethesda if you were hamstrung into wowclone roles.

[Ed Anger]

I want to be a genderfluid fat accepting troll.

[MadImmortalMan]

I want to be a genderfluid fat accepting troll.

Use this as a dieroll table for character generation!

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/facebooks-new-gender-identity-options

[Ed Anger]

I want to be a genderfluid fat accepting troll.

Use this as a dieroll table for character generation!

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/facebooks-new-gender-identity-options

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Why have any?

Pretty much everything lndhand complained about is stuff I want as well. It wouldn't be Bethesda if you were hamstrung into wowclone roles.

The concept of classes isn't really a WoW clone concept...it dates back to basically the beginning of RPGs as a concept, particularly RPGs played in groups (D&D, derivative MUDs and a plethora of derivative MMOs.) It's a good game play idea because it lets people fulfill different roles in a group.

The Elder Scrolls series has always been good and always been single player, so a pure skill based approach where you basically do whatever has been a good approach in those games. But based on all the multiplayer RPG experience I've had I've never seen it be that great if you don't have archetypes for people to follow.

As for the question as to why have more than three classes, you can provide interesting forms of gameplay within those archetypes. Like maybe one healer is better at big heals to keep a single person alive versus another type of healer excels at heals that affect multiple players at once. Or perhaps one form of DPS specializes in getting up close with the enemy  but others specialize in ranged damage, which properly crafted dungeons and encounters can make it so you might need both to be successful. Games are supposed to be fun, so it makes good sense to have multiple ways to do the same thing, you appeal to more people that way.

[garbon]

People have too much time on their hands. Many of those labels obscure more than they inform.

[DontSayBanana]

People have too much time on their hands. Many of those labels obscure more than they inform.

Two-spirit?