France Invades Mali

[Admiral Yi]

De Gaulle's magnificent. Americans moan about Europe not wanting to pull their weight in the world and then bitch about the one country that does

Utter tripe.  Complete codswallop.  Pulling out of the NATO command structure and weakening the military alliance that defended France against Warsaw Pact invasion is the exact opposite of pulling one's one weight.  France under De Gaulle invented the tactic of fucking with your most important ally as a pathetic ploy to restore emasculated national pride.

[mongers]

De Gaulle's magnificent. Americans moan about Europe not wanting to pull their weight in the world and then bitch about the one country that does

Utter tripe.  Complete codswallop.  Pulling out of the NATO command structure and weakening the military alliance that defended France against Warsaw Pact invasion is the exact opposite of pulling one's one weight.  France under De Gaulle invented the tactic of fucking with your most important ally as a pathetic ploy to restore emasculated national pride.

I disagree, in some respects it strengthened NATOs position vis the Warsaw Pact, having a somewhat renegade France armed with nuclear weapons added to deterrents, as it was entirely believable that the French would shoot first with tactical nukes as Soviet forces crossed W.Germany.

It complicated Soviet calculations and America couldn't have been that upset with the French, given how relatively quickly they shared nuclear weapon designs with the French.

[derspiess]

Rationalization at its finest, Mongers!

[Zanza]

A French soldier in Mali with an awesome mask:

[Tonitrus]

We are vilified when we do things like that. 

[Admiral Yi]

We got shit for wearing sunglasses. 

WHERE IS YOUR WEENIE NOW?

[Tonitrus]

We got shit for wearing sunglasses. 

WHERE IS YOUR WEENIE NOW?

That's is because our sunglasses had the power to see through burkas, thus depriving Muslim women of their modesty. 

[Grey Fox]

Here's the thing, the french arent pretending to do God's work or defending democracy around the world.

They get away with being assholes because they assume being asshole.

[Sheilbh]

Utter tripe.  Complete codswallop.  Pulling out of the NATO command structure and weakening the military alliance that defended France against Warsaw Pact invasion is the exact opposite of pulling one's one weight.  France under De Gaulle invented the tactic of fucking with your most important ally as a pathetic ploy to restore emasculated national pride.

How did pulling out of the NATO command structure weaken NATO?

Arguably the force de frappe was rather important in defending France as well. As mongers points out you could argue the French nuclear weapon actually strengthened the West - they were far less bashful about it. The French weren't convinced America would risk the end of the world to defend Europe, they made sure the USSR knew that France would.

Also at times when the Western alliance was actually under strain the French were very supportive of the US - the Cuban Missile Crisis springs to mind. I'd add that in terms of strengthening Europe as a part of the Western alliance I think the de Gaulle-Adenauer relationship was hugely important.

But you're right those were two separate concepts. De Gaulle was magnificent. And France is a country that pulls its own weight and you all are bitching about it. If Europe was full of well-meaning, well-NATO integrated Germans and Danes there'd just be a lot of 'support' for America's essential intervention in Mali.

[mongers]

Here's the thing, the french arent pretending to do God's work or defending democracy around the world.

They get away with being assholes because they assume being asshole.

Well once the British are on board, then that'll be necessary; Cameron is already gearing up the decades long battle/conflict rhetoric. 

Interesting to see ex-French FM Bernard Kouchner say it was imperative that the UK join France in this mission.

[CountDeMoney]

And France is a country that pulls its own weight and you all are bitching about it.

HEY NOW

[Sheilbh]

Interesting to see ex-French FM Bernard Kouchner say it was imperative that the UK join France in this mission.

It's imperative for Europe to join France.

[derspiess]

Here's the thing, the french arent pretending to do God's work or defending democracy around the world.

They get away with being assholes because they assume being asshole.

Unfortunately we don't have that luxury.

[Admiral Yi]

How did pulling out of the NATO command structure weaken NATO?

The same way that unifying French and British command in WWI strengthened the allies, but the opposite.

And France is a country that pulls its own weight and you all are bitching about it.

Codswallop.  Tripe.  Bollocks.

[DGuller]

Ok, guys, fess up:  who gave Yi a thesaurus for Christmas?