Ray Lewis to retire.

[Berkut]

Save the moralism for your kids.

You need it a lot more than they do - so does everyone else falling all over themselves to anoint Lewis as some kind of saint or role model because he tackles real good, and has excellent lawyers.

I consider him neither a saint nor a role model, but a linebacker.  So ascribe your usual moralistic frothiness to somebody else for a fucking change, fuckhead.

Nah, you are a fine example of the very kind of person my moral frothiness is especially suited for. If he played for any other team, or wasn't incredibly talented, you would be the first in line decrying the lack of justice in those two murders.

But he tackles other men real good, so a couple stabbings can be overlooked.

[Admiral Yi]

His pass coverage is decent too.

Or at least it was before he turned 50.

[Berkut]

I thought one of his posse took the fall.

The two knuckleheads charged with murdering the other knucklehead were acquitted, IIRC.

Of course - nobody was willing to testify against them, least of all St. Lewis.

Ironically, two men are dead, and the only person to ever have any charge at all stick against them for the crime is Ray Lewis.

[Berkut]

His pass coverage is decent too.

Or at least it was before he turned 50.

He is, by all accounts, pretty much all around fucking awesome, both on and off the field.

Except for the part where he was involved in the murder of two people. If you overlook that, he is A Number One Football God.

[Admiral Yi]

Buktus was arguably a better middle backer.  And definitely on a pound for pound basis.

[The Minsky Moment]

so does everyone else falling all over themselves to anoint Lewis as some kind of saint or role model because he . . . has excellent lawyers.

I'm convinced!

[Razgovory]

so does everyone else falling all over themselves to anoint Lewis as some kind of saint or role model because he . . . has excellent lawyers.

I'm convinced!

Don't see why Berkut is so upset.  This is the most free market and libertarian friendly result.  People with talent get paid more and then use that money to buy a superior product.  In this case, legal representation.

[Neil]

Meh.  You overlook crimes even more serious than murder when it comes to your own heroes, so suck it.

[Razgovory]

Meh.  You overlook crimes even more serious than murder when it comes to your own heroes, so suck it.

I do?

[Neil]

Meh.  You overlook crimes even more serious than murder when it comes to your own heroes, so suck it.

I do?

Even moreso than Berkut.

[Razgovory]

But, you're my hero.    Are you saying that you are morally bankrupt?

[Sophie Scholl]

I'm glad Berkut knows it had to be Ray and his pals that committed the crime.  I wonder why he didn't offer to testify with his 100% surety and knowledge of the incident.  Also, Ray has done a lot of amazing work in the community and the nation as a whole for charity and other worthwhile endeavors, so not only is he a good tackler and football player, but a good person off the field.  He was cleared of charges, Berkut.  It may infuriate you and make you especially frothy, but if you consider the courts ruled he was not responsible and didn't charge him, weigh his other off the field work, and his on the field work and work ethic, and I think he is a pretty great guy.  I'm sorry your rage prevents you from being able to acknowledge anything he has done off the field other than his involvement in matters he was cleared of over a decade ago.

[Barrister]

I'm glad Berkut knows it had to be Ray and his pals that committed the crime.  I wonder why he didn't offer to testify with his 100% surety and knowledge of the incident.  Also, Ray has done a lot of amazing work in the community and the nation as a whole for charity and other worthwhile endeavors, so not only is he a good tackler and football player, but a good person off the field.  He was cleared of charges, Berkut.  It may infuriate you and make you especially frothy, but if you consider the courts ruled he was not responsible and didn't charge him, weigh his other off the field work, and his on the field work and work ethic, and I think he is a pretty great guy.  I'm sorry your rage prevents you from being able to acknowledge anything he has done off the field other than his involvement in matters he was cleared of over a decade ago.

Criminal courts don't rule that someone "was not responsible", nor do they "clear" someone.  All that can be said is that there was no proof beyond a reasonable doubt implicating Ray Lewis with these homicides.

[Berkut]

I'm glad Berkut knows it had to be Ray and his pals that committed the crime.  I wonder why he didn't offer to testify with his 100% surety and knowledge of the incident. 

The facts speak for themselves. There is no debate even about the particulars:
1. Two men are dead.
2. They are dead because someone(s) in the group of people with Ray Lewis stabbed them to death.

Also, Ray has done a lot of amazing work in the community and the nation as a whole for charity and other worthwhile endeavors, so not only is he a good tackler and football player, but a good person off the field. 

I think I already said this - if you ignore his involvement in stabbing a couple other human beings to death, he is awesome.

See, that is the problem though - I don't buy into the idea that there is some amount of charity work that counters murdering two people, or covering up for others who murdered two people, especially when it doesn't involve any actual remorse.

And I am pretty convinced that the only reason this is not universally accepted is because Ray Ray is such a wonderful football player. Which is, quite simply, revolting. It says something very unpleasant about our scoieties values.

If he isn't a elite football player, nobody would be talking about how his work in soup kitchens really does mean we can ignore the fact that he was involved in murdering two people.

He was cleared of charges, Berkut.

So was OJ. That doesn't mean I have to conclude he was innocent, and an all around swell guy.

Lots of people get away with murder - that doesn't make them wonderful people.

It may infuriate you and make you especially frothy, but if you consider the courts ruled he was not responsible and didn't charge him, weigh his other off the field work, and his on the field work and work ethic, and I think he is a pretty great guy.

I do not. I think stabbing people to death is pretty hard to counter-act, and no number of tackles even comes close to balancing two human beings destroyed.

His off the field stuff might mitigate it to some degree. But here is the rub - judging from everyone going on about him in the media, and even here, someone who doesn't know would not even be aware that there was anything to mitigate. It is just ignored, and not because he is such a swell guy off the field, but because he is such a great player ON the field.

So I am happy to stink up threads like this where everyone is slobbering all over what a great guy he is - he is not a great guy. He is a guy who was involved in stabbing two people to death, in addition to all the other stuff.

I'm sorry your rage prevents you from being able to acknowledge anything he has done off the field other than his involvement in matters he was cleared of over a decade ago.

I find it funny that acknowledging that Ray Lewis was involved in knifing two men to death is seen as some kind of mental incoherence on my part, while ignoring that in order to slobber all over the man is seen as some kind of reasonable response to his retirement.

And of course, the claim that I don't acknowledge all that other stuff is just a flat out lie. I've stated several times in this thread that absent his involvement in murdering to people he is an amazing guy.

[Berkut]

Meh.  You overlook crimes even more serious than murder when it comes to your own heroes, so suck it.

No, I don't.

Funny how obvious you all are with your personal attacks when your Saint Lewis is questioned.