Poverty in Germany: example how to produce widely different results with stats

[Syt]

Two graphics.

The first shows "poverty" as defined by the EU: people with less than 60% of the median national income:


The second shows people with less than 60% of the median state income (which, as some argue, is more accurate as it takes into account local variances; e.g. cost of living in Hamburg is higher than in Bumfuck, Brandenburg, so salaries there are likely to be higher).


I guess I'd subscribe to the second graphic. I'd label the first an overview of standard of living throughout the nation, the second "relative poverty per state".

[Berkut]

I don't think either measure "poverty" though - they measure relative wealth distribution at the low end.

I think people who measure "poverty" in these kinds of terms tend to have a rather different goal than eradicating actual poverty.

[The Brain]

Germans sure like their Socialism.

[Syt]

I don't think either measure "poverty" though - they measure relative wealth distribution at the low end.

True, of course, which is why I referred to the second pic as "relative poverty per state", not as absolute poverty as in struggling to have something to eat on the table tomorrow.

[Tonitrus]

I'm curious...how "integrated" is the former East Germany nowadays?

I know there will be some relics of the former communist East...but as far as federal administration, general social factors, etc...if an ignorant Westerner traveled from the former West to the East, is the difference all that noticeable?

[DisturbedPervert]

I don't think either measure "poverty" though - they measure relative wealth distribution at the low end.

I think people who measure "poverty" in these kinds of terms tend to have a rather different goal than eradicating actual poverty.

Someday they will measure poverty through your iPod model number and the size of your HDTV.

[Syt]

I'm curious...how "integrated" is the former East Germany nowadays?

I know there will be some relics of the former communist East...but as far as federal administration, general social factors, etc...if an ignorant Westerner traveled from the former West to the East, is the difference all that noticeable?

Depends on where you go. The major hubs (esp. Leipzig/Dresden) are pretty much on par (with the exception of some old Eastern Architecture) with western cities, but rural areas, esp. Brandenburg and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (with exception of Baltic Sea resorts) are a wholly different matter entirely.

Easterners hold a bit of a grudge, because Chancellor Kohl promised "prosperous landscapes" in the former GDR.

[Sheilbh]

I noticed the difference when I went to Germany 2-3 years ago.

[Martinus]

I disagree, Syt. Now, I agree with Berkut that both graphs are crap to measure actual poverty, but if I was to choose either method, I'd say the first method with an adjustment for local costs of living, would make much more sense than the second graph.

[Malthus]

Yeah, the graphs are measuring wealth equality, not poverty. The two may correlate or they may not - in a wealthy society, it may well be possible to have 60% of the median income (whether by state or nation) and still have enough to eat, an education, and a place to live.

Dunno how one would even go about measuring "absolute" poverty though.

[Syt]

Btw, what these numbers also show is that some journalists of certain major tabloids (*cough*BILD*cough*) don't understand the difference between median and average income.

[derspiess]

Easterners hold a bit of a grudge, because Chancellor Kohl promised "prosperous landscapes" in the former GDR.

Well, they're a damned sight better off than they were under the DDR, aren't they?  Things don't happen overnight.

[Syt]

Easterners hold a bit of a grudge, because Chancellor Kohl promised "prosperous landscapes" in the former GDR.

Well, they're a damned sight better off than they were under the DDR, aren't they?  Things don't happen overnight.

Objectively probably, but the unemployed, uneducate tend to disagree, on a subjective level. People wanted same standard of living immediately.

[Valmy]

Well, they're a damned sight better off than they were under the DDR, aren't they?  Things don't happen overnight.

Well it has been 20 years.  By now people are graduating and entering the workforce who have never lived in the DDR.

[Syt]

Well, they're a damned sight better off than they were under the DDR, aren't they?  Things don't happen overnight.

Well it has been 20 years.  By now people are graduating and entering the workforce who have never lived in the DDR.

Or not. There's a bit of a migration (esp. women and other qualified folks) away from the structurally weak rural eastern regions where there's few career opportunities.