Elementary school shooting gun control pissing contest

Started by Grey Fox, December 14, 2012, 01:25:41 PM

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DGuller

#525
December 23, 2012, 03:33:30 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 23, 2012, 03:30:09 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 23, 2012, 03:25:37 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 23, 2012, 03:20:12 AM
Again you fail. Your camp will continue to fail with that attitude and tone. You wont get even a fractiion of your agenda without the "imbecile" moderates and casuals.
Imbeciles, even moderate ones, are the enemies of such an honest debate.

That's your problem. "You" are not displaying a willingness for honest debate. Only insults.
The debate is not about whether guns make the society more safe or less safe.  There should be no debate about that, which is why I regard people who think the first conclusion is plausible as a lost cause.  The debate is about the desired trade-off between safety and whatever benefits there are of gun ownership.

DGuller

#526
December 23, 2012, 03:48:20 AM
To put it another way, what annoys me about the "gun ownership makes us safe" argument is that it's like a Laffer Curve argument.  It's an attempt to kill an honest debate in its infancy by advancing a falsehood.  Instead of trying to balance opposing forces, like safety vs. rights in the gun case, and government revenues vs. property rights in the tax case, the claim is that you can have your cake and eat it too.  There is no compromise to be head:  the further to the extreme you go, the better.  There is no debating people who fall for this shit.

11B4V

#527
December 23, 2012, 03:50:12 AM Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 03:51:44 AM by 11B4V
Quote from: DGuller on December 23, 2012, 03:33:30 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 23, 2012, 03:30:09 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 23, 2012, 03:25:37 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 23, 2012, 03:20:12 AM
Again you fail. Your camp will continue to fail with that attitude and tone. You wont get even a fractiion of your agenda without the "imbecile" moderates and casuals.
Imbeciles, even moderate ones, are the enemies of such an honest debate.

That's your problem. "You" are not displaying a willingness for honest debate. Only insults.
The debate is about the desired trade-off between safety and whatever benefits there are of gun ownership.

There will not be any realistic safety, only false sense of safety unless guns are limited, restricted, and tightly controlled.

and the above is stated by a "gun nut".



"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

11B4V

#528
December 23, 2012, 03:59:25 AM Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 04:18:41 AM by 11B4V
Quote from: DGuller on December 23, 2012, 03:48:20 AM
To put it another way, what annoys me about the "gun ownership makes us safe" argument is that it's like a Laffer Curve argument.

It does not, in and of itself. Realistic control measures can and that's what has to be decided on. It wont be accomplished by half measures or token measures. It will need to be extreme.

Gun culture is not just about the "gun". It's also about attitude towards, for lack of better words. It used to be the "Hunting Culture". Something totally different than the current "Gun Culture" IMO. I am someone who has been in that culture since age 8. Growing up, no guns in the house were locked, whether it be in a safe or trigger locks. But, I knew if I touched one of those fucking things, (excepting hunting season or the rare target shooting), I would get my ass beat.

Take a gun to school. Are you fucking kidding me, that never crossed my mind. 
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Razgovory

#529
December 23, 2012, 04:13:24 AM
Yeah, but that's a different argument.  That's the argument of feasibility, not safety.  Personally I'm not really in favor of gun control.  Gun rights are in the constitution and I don't like messing with the constitution.  Besides, I've never been killed by a gun, so they can't be that dangerous.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

11B4V

#530
December 23, 2012, 04:16:10 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 23, 2012, 04:13:24 AM
Yeah, but that's a different argument.  That's the argument of feasibility, not safety.  Personally I'm not really in favor of gun control.  Gun rights are in the constitution and I don't like messing with the constitution.  Besides, I've never been killed by a gun, so they can't be that dangerous.

You sell yourself short as usual. As a matter that is a lamer troll than Matry's. You should go light yourself on fire.

I am in favor of gun control.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Razgovory

#531
December 23, 2012, 04:20:34 AM
That's not a troll.  I really don't care about the issue that much.  The fight over taxes, that's shit is important.  Guns, not so much.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

11B4V

#532
December 23, 2012, 04:22:08 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 23, 2012, 04:20:34 AM
That's not a troll.  I really don't care about the issue that much.  The fight over taxes, that's shit is important.  Guns, not so much.

Disagree.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Razgovory

#533
December 23, 2012, 04:27:38 AM
Well, I suppose I can't win them all over.  I don't know about gun culture.  I know people like to shoot them at paper targets, and that some people collect them.  I guess it's like stamp collecting except that you can kill people with them.  I don't care that much.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Martinus

#534
December 23, 2012, 05:00:45 AM
It's not a troll. I simply realized that I care as much about some kids who got their brains blown out by some nut in the US as about kids who got blown up by a drone in Afghanistan. Which is to say - not much.

Razgovory

#535
December 23, 2012, 05:29:02 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 23, 2012, 05:00:45 AM
It's not a troll. I simply realized that I care as much about some kids who got their brains blown out by some nut in the US as about kids who got blown up by a drone in Afghanistan. Which is to say - not much.

Like I said, you are probably just an idiot.  And indeed you are.  Still the Fred Phelps logic with the Karma thing was nice.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

mongers

#536
December 23, 2012, 08:35:19 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 23, 2012, 03:50:12 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 23, 2012, 03:33:30 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 23, 2012, 03:30:09 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 23, 2012, 03:25:37 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 23, 2012, 03:20:12 AM
Again you fail. Your camp will continue to fail with that attitude and tone. You wont get even a fractiion of your agenda without the "imbecile" moderates and casuals.
Imbeciles, even moderate ones, are the enemies of such an honest debate.

That's your problem. "You" are not displaying a willingness for honest debate. Only insults.
The debate is about the desired trade-off between safety and whatever benefits there are of gun ownership.

There will not be any realistic safety, only false sense of safety unless guns are limited, restricted, and tightly controlled.

and the above is stated by a "gun nut".

This is a reasoned, practical stance to have.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Berkut

#537
December 23, 2012, 10:40:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 23, 2012, 02:45:58 AM


Yeah, I'm sure having guns would have helped these innocent bystanders and children regularly blown up to pieces by drones. Which, incidentally, makes the whole outrage about the school shooting rather hypocritical. Karma can be a bitch sometimes.
...and Marty shows why you don't have to have faith to be a complete idiot.

Yes, your right Marty - those 20 children were all murdered as karmic retribution for collateral damage from the war against terrorism.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

Neil

#538
December 23, 2012, 11:27:30 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 23, 2012, 05:00:45 AM
It's not a troll. I simply realized that I care as much about some kids who got their brains blown out by some nut in the US as about kids who got blown up by a drone in Afghanistan. Which is to say - not much.
See, and this is why you're an idiot.  The kids killed in the US were mostly white.  The kids killed in the war on terror are various undesirables.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.
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