Feminism

[Maximus]

Mathematical ability, like most things in nature, are distributed on a bell curve.  The mathematical abilities of men have their bell curve, and the mathematical ability of women have their bell curve, if we use Math SAT scores as a proxy for mathematical abilities.

On average, male and female performance on isn't too different.  The two bell curves do not overlap, but they're not too far apart from each other;  the difference is only a third of a standard deviation.  If you take two people at random, the odds are close to even as to who would be better at math.

However, such small differences on average tend to leverage themselves as you get to higher and higher math skill.  As you move into abilities many standard deviations above the mean, the ratio of males to females above the threshold can grow to infinity, and can easily be 10:1 at realistic levels.  That's the reason why on average, you won't see much difference in math abilities for males and females, but at the extremes, males dominate.

Here is a graph illustrating this leveraging effect:  http://www.aei-ideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/sat23.jpg

But that doesn't address at all the cause behind the different distributions, which is where the "how it's taught" argument is applied.

My personal belief is that it isn't innate ability(which is generally overrated IMO) nor how it's taught, but rather how it's valued, in particular among your peer group. 

[Barrister]

Most South American women I know are not what I would call drama queens.  A raging temper if you set them off, for sure.  But they don't necessarily go around looking for things to get pissed off about.

Maybe it's just the farther one gets from the equator 

Just one data point, but my future sister-in-law is certainly no drama queen.

[derspiess]

Most South American women I know are not what I would call drama queens.  A raging temper if you set them off, for sure.  But they don't necessarily go around looking for things to get pissed off about.

Maybe it's just the farther one gets from the equator 

Dunno if that makes a difference.  I'm including Venezuelans, a Colombian, an Ecuadorian, and a few Peruvians in my analysis (in addition to Argie women of course).  They're all passionate and sometimes ill-tempered women, but none are what I would call drama queens.

My best friend's sister is to me the penultimate drama queen.  She will create a major controversy out of the slightest issue, and if none exists she'll actively stir shit up.  She does happen to be a redhead, FWIW.

[merithyn]

I think he's getting out how probability and statistics aren't used to explain all cases but the more likely cases (or certain group of cases).

That's a good point as well.  Because most attributes in nature are distributed on a bell curve, anecdotal examples are an extremely bad counter-argument.  The existence of bell curves implies variability in the attributes.

Which is why using 500 CEOs in a population of 300 million is a bad way to measure gender equality.

The article I provided was the top 500 companies. The statistics holds across the US for all CEOs, which numbers in the thousands, with only 4% being women.

[CountDeMoney]

Well, then again, crazy knows no geographical boundaries. 

[MadImmortalMan]

My personal belief is that it isn't innate ability(which is generally overrated IMO) not how it's taught, but rather how it's valued, in particular among your peer group.

Yeah I think this is right. With also the desire component Meri brought up, which is affected in part by how it's valued and in part by other things.

[MadImmortalMan]

Well, then again, crazy knows no geographical boundaries. 

Neither does retardation. I think we may be on to something here. 

[merithyn]

If you understand all that, then why did you bring up all those points as if they were logically inconsistent with the notion than men are slightly better than women at math?  If you understood all that, then you would not be dumbfounded by things you claimed to be dumbfounded by.

I'm dumbfounded on the why, not what.

I can say it again, as it seems to be lost on you, but I'm not sure there's much point.

[derspiess]

Well, then again, crazy knows no geographical boundaries. 

But there are many different flavors of crazy.

[merithyn]

My personal belief is that it isn't innate ability(which is generally overrated IMO) not how it's taught, but rather how it's valued, in particular among your peer group.

Yeah I think this is right. With also the desire component Meri brought up, which is affected in part by how it's valued and in part by other things.

That seems like the most valid reason that I've heard. (And now that I read Max's response, I recall him saying something similar before. I just forgot. ) I wonder if this falls in line with the idea that it's better to stick with what others deem okay for you rather than be a "social trailblazer" and step outside that.

In short, it seems to be a microcosm of the bigger issue with equality between the genders. Women can be as much in the way of their success as men can be, and it will require a massive shift in society toward gender equality for it to ever come to fruition.

[merithyn]

Dunno if that makes a difference.  I'm including Venezuelans, a Colombian, an Ecuadorian, and a few Peruvians in my analysis (in addition to Argie women of course).  They're all passionate and sometimes ill-tempered women, but none are what I would call drama queens.

My best friend's sister is to me the penultimate drama queen.  She will create a major controversy out of the slightest issue, and if none exists she'll actively stir shit up.  She does happen to be a redhead, FWIW.

I'm curious. Do you consider me to be a drama queen?

[DGuller]

  I think I know why this individual woman is not good with probability and statistics.  There is a very simple statistical explanation that fits everything that you've observed, but you have to be willing to accept an explanation that doesn't fit your "the way it is taught" preconceived notion.

Let's assume for a moment that my observations are representative. Does your explanation fit the data showing that the disparity is radically different among different cultures?

No.  Computer science doesn't require such an exceptional level of math ability that it would lead to a gender disparity that severe.  I think cultural preferences dominated there.

[derspiess]

I'm curious. Do you consider me to be a drama queen?

Well, you do seem to have your buttons

[merithyn]

I'm curious. Do you consider me to be a drama queen?

Well, you do seem to have your buttons

That's not how you described a drama queen, and you said that your wife had hers, and yet wasn't a drama queen.

So, I ask again: Do you consider me to be a drama queen?

[Maximus]

I wonder if this falls in line with the idea that it's better to stick with what others deem okay for you rather than be a "social trailblazer" and step outside that.

The early to mid teens is where mathematical ability is most easily developed. And I would guess that early to mid teen girls are one of the least likely groups to defy their peers.