Feminism

[merithyn]

I was listening to an interview on NPR with Lynn Povich, one of the women at the forefront of the Equal Rights Movement for women in the 1960s. She was bemoaning the idea that women today not only do not adopt the term "feminist", but eschway it as a negative term. And yet, when asked the basic questions of feminism - Do you believe in equal pay for women? Do you believe in equal opportunity for women? Do you believe in having control over your own body? - almost all women agree that they should. These, according to Ms. Povich, are the very core issues of feminism, so it's odd to her that young women aren't embracing the term.

Personally, I dislike the term because I dislike the reaction that comes from using it. In other words, I am very much a classic feminist - I believe strongly in equal rights for women - though I choose not to use the term because I don't want it turned around on me as, "I believe in better rights for women", which seems to be what feminism means today to most people.

How and why did that happen? And what are your opinions regarding the concept of "feminists" beyond the knee-jerk negative reactions? (I say that as one who has her own knee-jerk negative reaction to the term.)

[CountDeMoney]

Feminism, like Liberalism and Democrat, has been successfully rebranded and redefined as a naughty, naughty word for the last 30 years.  So there you go.  Pick another fucking word.

[Barrister]

I was listening to an interview on NPR with Lynn Povich, one of the women at the forefront of the Equal Rights Movement for women in the 1960s. She was bemoaning the idea that women today not only do not adopt the term "feminist", but eschway it as a negative term. And yet, when asked the basic questions of feminism - Do you believe in equal pay for women? Do you believe in equal opportunity for women? Do you believe in having control over your own body? - almost all women agree that they should. These, according to Ms. Povich, are the very core issues of feminism, so it's odd to her that young women aren't embracing the term.

Personally, I dislike the term because I dislike the reaction that comes from using it. In other words, I am very much a classic feminist - I believe strongly in equal rights for women - though I choose not to use the term because I don't want it turned around on me as, "I believe in better rights for women", which seems to be what feminism means today to most people.

How and why did that happen? And what are your opinions regarding the concept of "feminists" beyond the knee-jerk negative reactions? (I say that as one who has her own knee-jerk negative reaction to the term.)

The trouble with the word "feminism" is that the major feminist figures and organizations, once they "won" the general debate over equal rights and equal pay for women, carried on into a very left-wing direction.  They started to define "feminism" very narrowly, which led to lots of people rejecting the term.

[crazy canuck]

I think this is another cultural thing.  I dont think feminism is a dirty word around here.  Rather it is the norm.  Which is probably why it is not used as much.  To not be a feminist (ie to not believe in those ideals) would be considered pretty antisocial.  I will put a disclaimer in about Edmonton.  Cant really be sure about those types.

edit:  BBs post justified my disclaimer 

[CountDeMoney]

once they "won" the general debate over equal rights and equal pay for women, carried on into a very left-wing direction. 

Really.  They "won", did they.

[Malthus]

As the goals of Feminism became increasingly accepted as mainstream, the term got associated fairly or not with what had been the fringe by some folks. I don't think it would raise eyebrows around here, but one may have to qualify it in some way to preemptively indicate one was not fringe - as in, "I'm an equal rights Feminist".

[crazy canuck]

As the goals of Feminism became increasingly accepted as mainstream, the term got associated fairly or not with what had been the fringe by some folks. I don't think it would raise eyebrows around here, but one may have to qualify it in some way to preemptively indicate one was not fringe - as in, "I'm an equal rights Feminist".

Yeah, I think that is fair.

[Richard Hakluyt]

It is similar to environmentalists, most people are interested in protecting the environment, but the term is used for only the deep greens.

[Gups]

As the goals of Feminism became increasingly accepted as mainstream, the term got associated fairly or not with what had been the fringe by some folks. I don't think it would raise eyebrows around here, but one may have to qualify it in some way to preemptively indicate one was not fringe - as in, "I'm an equal rights Feminist".

But also the fringe became professionalised and co-opted the label. Most normal people of whatever gender don't want to be associated with Naomi Wolf and co. It doesn't help that many professional feminists seem to spend most of their time slagging each other off or telling other women what they should wear and how they should act.

[crazy canuck]

@Meri, Another thought is that in your country abortion is still an issue of contention.  We still have some that are anti abortion but they are safely on the fringes now.

The right to access to abortion is one of the key planks in the feminist movement.  If one wishes to attack abortion rights then one needs to also attack feminism.

[Valmy]

Well it is because it is not a very specific term I think.  I read lots of feminist blogs and so forth and while there are lots of great ones who I really respect and admire there are loads of total nutters which makes it easy to portray feminists as some sort of crazy radicals. 

A good example are the ones who flip over any indication of sexuality as oppression (one specific example that comes to mind is one feminist who had a throw away line about how she was going running in the park and she was glad the weather was getting nicer so she could admire all the attractive men out exercising and damn did she got piled on by the nutters as worse than Hitler).  Another one are the ones who insist marriage is anti-feminist and inherently unequal and should be abolished...unless it is gay marriage, kind a bizarre reversal of Christian nutters.  Then there is the whole debate about whether a man can call himself a feminist, or whether it is impossible since he can never really know teh horrah of being an oppressed woman.

To some it really does, I think, simply mean you answer yes to the questions: 'Do you believe in equal pay for women? Do you believe in equal opportunity for women? Do you believe in having control over your own body?'.  But it means alot of things to many people, and alot of the definitions are directly contradictory.

[Razgovory]

once they "won" the general debate over equal rights and equal pay for women, carried on into a very left-wing direction. 

Really.  They "won", did they.

Yeah, after the passage of the ERA they just went kinda nuts.

[merithyn]

once they "won" the general debate over equal rights and equal pay for women, carried on into a very left-wing direction. 

Really.  They "won", did they.

Heh. My first thought on that, too.

[Valmy]

The right to access to abortion is one of the key planks in the feminist movement.  If one wishes to attack abortion rights then one needs to also attack feminism.

I do not think that is necessarily true.

[Valmy]

Heh. My first thought on that, too.

You have to wait for the people who came up in the bad old days to retire at least.  Among the younger demographics it looks pretty good in that respect, equal pay anyway.