New Quebec Language Law silliness: "Le Magasin Walmart"

[viper37]

With all of your bitching about the minority English speakers in Quebec, change the terms to minority French speakers in Canada.  It's fun.

Historically, French schools were forbiden in most part of Canada.  In Manitoba, French had the right to public schooling only since the early 90s.

French were here first.  French rights have been historically trempled.  Once you get to a minority status, you arrive at some point with the consequence being that you either keep on forcing assimilation or you protect the language you tried to trample.

As Canadians from all horizons fear only one thing, annexation by the US, official bilinguism was seen as a way to preserve canadian identity in face of seperatism rising in Quebec.  Official bilinguism dates only from 1982.

[dps]

Yeah, I mean you an get government communications in all sorts of languages.  The government has to make a good faith effort to communicate to its citizens, which means it will send tax forms to you in French if you so chose.  You won't get a trial in French, but I think the government is required to give you an interpreter so that you can aid in your own defense.  In practice it would be harder to find a French interpreter then a Spanish one due to the low number of French speakers in the country.  Now if you demanded a French interpreter and could speak perfectly fine English they might hit you with sticks for being an asshole.

Yeah, if you're on trial and can't speak English (or don't speak it well), they won't conduct the trial in your language for you (as always, there might be exceptions) but they will get you an interpreter.  If you speak English well, but would prefer to have not do so, yes, then they'd probably tell you to fuck yourself.

That's for criminal trials, though.  For civil suits, I'd guess that a plaintiff that doesn't speak English would have to provide their own interpreter, but I'm sure about that, and I have no idea about the defendent in a civil suit.

As far as the question about asking for a French-speaking person at the unemployment office, that actually might be a problem.  They would get someone there, but instead of a French-speaking employee of the department, it might just be an interpreter, and it might actually take a bit of time to arrange, which would be inconvenient for the client.  But the same accomodation would be extended to speakers of almost any language;  Spanish-speakers would actually have a decent chance of there being a Spanish-speaking employee actually on duty, for languages that don't have very many speakers in this country, say Latvian or Basque, the time to arrange for an interpreter might be measured in weeks (which obviously would be very inconvenient for the client).

[dps]

French were here first. 

Actually, no.  The French weren't there first.  Call 'em Indians, Native Americans, First Nations, or whatever, they were there first.

French rights have been historically trempled.  .

I guess that really, the heart of the problems that many Americans have with your language laws is that we are more comfortable with the idea of individual rights, not group rights.

[Caliga]

As Canadians from all horizons fear only one thing, annexation by the US

Not to worry, your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own.

[Grey Fox]

[dps]

As Canadians from all horizons fear only one thing, annexation by the US

Not to worry, your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own.

But I don't want our occupation of Canada to be modeled on the Borg.  I want it to be like the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, where we strip out every thing of value and then leave after there's nothing worth taking left.  Wait a sec--did we already occupy Canada at some point and not remember it?

[Grey Fox]

If so you left all the Oil & Uranium behind, so I'm guessing not, really no.

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah we're pretty accommodating. Hell, my sample ballot came in a bunch of different languages that you can vote in.

It's especially accommodating when the dates in Spanish for Election Day are incorrect.

[viper37]

So Quebec government sucks, and this is just an examle of that?

When I tell you I live in a socialist hell, do you think I'm lying?

See, a real case: my notary made a simple mistake last year.  She made all the paper work to dissolve two of our companies, but forgot the file the final documents with the government, after everything else was registered.  So, for the government, I still have 2 active companies, beside the others.  These two companies have produced tax fillings every year, one of them never had any revenues.

So, I received a letter last month, telling me I owe the government 8000$ in income tax for one of the companies because the company is still registered and did not file an income tax report.  Now, I have to prove to my government there has been no activity for this company, that it was dissolved, that the notary simply forgot to file the last paper (electronic form actually, in a system for wich the government has had many problems... so it might just be that they lost it).

For another company, I made a mistake, many years ago.  They changed my GST&PST declaration period from trimestrial to monthly, but I did not noticed it.  See, despite me writing and phoning, telling them to use the office adress for any correspondance, they are still sending all documents to my father's adress for this enterprise.  So, I keep getting stuff late.  Anyway, I made the mistake, I made my declaration for 3 months instead of one month. 
Never mind that my documents were correctly filled with the proper dates, the government assumed I did not make any declaration for 3 months of the year.  Now, do they base themselves on an annual mean to estimate the amounts I owe them?  Of course not   They took my declaration for 3 months in a specific period, assumed it is representative of all months in a year, and say I owe them 2900$ in unpaid tax for this company, plus the penalties, plus the interests.

I sent the document twice, twice I was called back to tell me they lost it, I had to resend it.  3 years later, they credited me with one month, insisting I owe them 2000$ for 2 months.

That has been lasting for 4 years, trying to correct a simple mistake.  When I call, I'm told these things take time.


So, yes, our government is filled with assholes, the bigger ones working for the Office de la langue française and Revenu Québec.

[viper37]

Actually, no.  The French weren't there first.  Call 'em Indians, Native Americans, First Nations, or whatever, they were there first.

True, and we try to make things right, but it's difficult with so many languages now extinct.

I guess that really, the heart of the problems that many Americans have with your language laws is that we are more comfortable with the idea of individual rights, not group rights.

The problem is what do you do once a group has been pushed to the brink of extinction? 
Choice A: keep doing what you did, let it die. 
Choice B: allow some compromises to help them survive.

Choice B was decided as a way to keep Quebec into Canada.  The day it stops entirely is the day Quebec gets out of the Federation, and Canadians fear that, for some reason.

In the US, you have affirmative action for certain groups, like the blacks, because historically, they were denied access to decent schools.  Either we have affirmative action were French would be given preferential treatments (I can imagine the outcry in Canada), or you let the people of Quebec protect their culture.  And yes, sometimes it will give silly issues like the trademark battles.

[HVC]

So Quebec government sucks, and this is just an examle of that?

When I tell you I live in a socialist hell, do you think I'm lying?

that's what happens when you employ people because they speak French, rather then because they're good at their job

[viper37]

So Quebec government sucks, and this is just an examle of that?

When I tell you I live in a socialist hell, do you think I'm lying?

that's what happens when you employ people because they speak French, rather then because they're good at their job

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Porter_%28Canada%29

[viper37]

Yeah, if you're on trial and can't speak English (or don't speak it well), they won't conduct the trial in your language for you (as always, there might be exceptions) but they will get you an interpreter.  If you speak English well, but would prefer to have not do so, yes, then they'd probably tell you to fuck yourself.

it's the same here, except any Canadian citizens has the right to a trial in English, not just an interpreter.  A French Canadian citizen though can only get his trial in French in Quebec, or "were the numbers justify it".  Wich is akin to "learn english" for 95% of the territory outside Quebec.

See, there's nothing wrong with individual rights.  But they just don't mean the same in English Canada than in Quebec.  And until they do, the language laws will be a necessity.

[garbon]

In the US, you have affirmative action for certain groups, like the blacks, because historically, they were denied access to decent schools.  Either we have affirmative action were French would be given preferential treatments (I can imagine the outcry in Canada), or you let the people of Quebec protect their culture.  And yes, sometimes it will give silly issues like the trademark battles.

I'm not sure if that's the best equivalent. After all, black people aren't really dying out whereas you're talking about propping up an apparently dying culture (or at least one that has to be foisted on others to survive).

[merithyn]

As far as the question about asking for a French-speaking person at the unemployment office, that actually might be a problem.  They would get someone there, but instead of a French-speaking employee of the department, it might just be an interpreter, and it might actually take a bit of time to arrange, which would be inconvenient for the client.  But the same accomodation would be extended to speakers of almost any language;  Spanish-speakers would actually have a decent chance of there being a Spanish-speaking employee actually on duty, for languages that don't have very many speakers in this country, say Latvian or Basque, the time to arrange for an interpreter might be measured in weeks (which obviously would be very inconvenient for the client).

Most of the time they have a conference call with an interpreter on the line, anymore. They have a number the state employee calls, they ask for the necessary language, and then conference in the unemployed individual. Much quicker, easier, and usually cheaper.