Question about eating meals at work

[Martim Silva]

Quit trying to act as though all others are beneath you because they think - and act - differently. It's annoying and makes you look ignorant and provincial.

Actually, I was trying to see it what I'd thought was true, and if so to wonder why do you let your employers do that to you. Can you do the math on how much money you've been forced to spend to do your work?

If we could make our bosses yield, why can't you?

I don't see it as "acting differently". That would be just a culture thing. I've noticed that Americans are often terrified of offending their employers, and that they don't stand up to their rights. Come on - it's the nation of the free and the brave! Stand up for your rights. If they demand you be there all day, than THEY have to pay for your meals.

[Ed Anger]

Oh lord. 

[Zanza]

How much of it is subsidized by the company?

I was kind of half-expecting the Americans to let their employers walk all over them, but your case is special, Zanza. After all, we are getting a lot of German money to allow our banks to lend to our companies, so that these companies can pay us to eat at restaurants.

It just seems... odd that you have to do that while effectively paying the Portuguese so that they can keep eating at restaurants for almost nothing (or for free, depending on the meal).

No idea. I think employees from other companies that eat in our restaurant have to pay a 60% or 70% premium over what we pay, so I guess that's about the amount that is subsidized. But it is not a fixed amount per day or so. If I never eat there, I don't get subsidized either.

People in my company will on median earn way more than the median Portuguese salary, so I don't think many would begrudge you guys for your small extra.

[Grey Fox]

Testify brother!

[merithyn]

Actually, I was trying to see it what I'd thought was true, and if so to wonder why do you let your employers do that to you. Can you do the math on how much money you've been forced to spend to do your work?

If we could make our bosses yield, why can't you?

I don't see it as "acting differently". That would be just a culture thing. I've noticed that Americans are often terrified of offending their employers, and that they don't stand up to their rights. Come on - it's the nation of the free and the brave! Stand up for your rights. If they demand you be there all day, than THEY have to pay for your meals.

Ah, so it's not just that you LOOK ignorant and provincial. You actually ARE ignorant and provincial.

It's okay. One day you'll get paid a real wage and be able to buy your own food.

[CountDeMoney]

Come on - it's the nation of the free and the brave! Stand up for your rights. If they demand you be there all day, than THEY have to pay for your meals.

What are you, a diabetic black woman in municipal government?

[Martim Silva]

No, I don't give a shit. Wages in Portugal are so low that having such a meal allowance is probably necessary.

True. It's basically akin to welfare.

Sadly that is true for the majority of the workers, yes. But the allowances are also paid to all, irrespective of where they are in the social scale - and while Portuguese workers have low wages, Portuguese managers are among the best paid (20% more on average than their spanish counterparts in basic management; a Spanish CEO usually makes half of what a similar Portuguese CEO does).

And Meal Allowances are far higher at the top than at the bottom, of course... one has to eat at fancier restaurants.

No idea. I think employees from other companies that eat in our restaurant have to pay a 60% or 70% premium over what we pay, so I guess that's about the amount that is subsidized. But it is not a fixed amount per day or so. If I never eat there, I don't get subsidized either.

Well, that's not as bad. The company is living up to its social responsability, and maybe trying to make something extra is the food is attractive to others.

Merkel will be here by Monday, to broker deals between German and Portuguese companies, and to try to get us to adopt several German models, like the KfW and mimick German education. Your company's eating model might be one other to consider.

[Josephus]

Meal allowance?

Since all employees have to eat (at a restaurant), companies are forced by law to pay everybody a meal allowance ['subsídio de refeição', in portuguese] to cover the cost, or at least part of the cost, of a meal at a restaurant.

It is an extra added to the wage and not considered taxable income.

This is the law:

http://www.dgaep.gov.pt/stap/infoPage.cfm?objid=56233dbb-79d5-4613-bfcc-90d8a58b6ea4&KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=580&width=520

translate with google, or something.

Sometimes even I believe that socialism goes too far.

[Syt]

Some companies here offer subsidized restaurants or meal vouchers. My old company gave us a EUR 4.40 voucher per day. My new company doesn't have that - you're responsible for what you have for lunch (half an hour). Most people either have a sandwich or salad, pick up something from the restaurant on the ground floor or microwave something. I usually have my "proper" meal in the evening.

Once or twice a month we order in something on company dime to have lunch together.

[merithyn]

Sadly that is true for the majority of the workers, yes. But the allowances are also paid to all, irrespective of where they are in the social scale - and while Portuguese workers have low wages, Portuguese managers are among the best paid (20% more on average than their spanish counterparts in basic management; a Spanish CEO usually makes half of what a similar Portuguese CEO does).

And Meal Allowances are far higher at the top than at the bottom, of course... one has to eat at fancier restaurants.

Might want to try to use countries other than Spain as a comparison if you want us to believe that it's not welfare. 

[Maximus]

It's not like it matters. Meal allowance is a form of compensation, whatever it's called. If it wasn't there some other form would take its place as the labour market demanded. The difference is you'd be able to do with it as you wanted. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, there's something to be said for supporting restauranteurs.

[Barrister]

Of course martim's trolling, but what the hell, I'll play along.

There are all manner of expenses that might theoretically be tied to your job.  I have to wear a suit - I suppose I could argue that makes it a job requirement.  I obviously have to eat, as you say.  I have to travel in to go to work.

The way it works here though is many of those expenses are tied in to personal decisions.  It is theoretically possible for me to live within walking distance of my office - here are a number of downtown condos (plus some slum neighborhoods).  A colleague of mine does live downtown, and does go home at lunch to let his dog out.  Because it was a personal choice to live further away, I am responsible for those expenses.

Same goes for my suits.  I could theoretically go down to the second hand store and get suits for dirt cheap.  The fact that I choose not to means I have to pay for that expense.

However sometimes I don't have a choice.  For Court of Queen's Bench I am required to wear a specific set of robes.  There is no personal choice involved.  As a result government pays for my robes.

In the course of my employment I may have to go out of town.  Now, suddenly government will pay me a meal allowance, because I have no choice in the matter.

[Maximus]

But you will suffer severe social stigma if you make the wrong choice!

[Zanza]

Well, that's not as bad. The company is living up to its social responsability

The blue-collar workers in the big plants would not have a chance to go offsite to eat something in the brief shift breaks, so having the restaurant onsite is necessary. The employee's council/union makes sure that the food is affordable, so they negotiate the subsidy with the company.

, and maybe trying to make something extra is the food is attractive to others.

Not really, our premises are only accessible with a chipcard (which is also the only way to pay for the food in the restaurant), so only people affiliated with our company will be able to go to these restaurants. But our suppliers often work on our premises and thus have no real choice unless they want to take rather long lunch breaks. But a lot of them will not go to the restaurants and bring lunch instead. I think, some big suppliers have deals with the company that operates our restaurant (it's outsourced of course) to get a similar deal for their employees as we do.

[Iormlund]

The spaniards do the Siesta (two hours per day).

Two hours is awfully long. Those few who still observe siestas take ten or fifteen minutes.

It's hardly my nation... Spain does it too, and they get paid on average twice the amount the portuguese to eat at restaurants.

I'm not aware of any such law in Spain. Some employers, especially in big cities where you cannot get back home for lunch, will give employees coupons as an extra. Bigger firms (for example Siemens or BSH) often have a place to eat within the facilities instead.

The only thing that would look weird about eating at the workplace (I've done it frequently) would be doing it on your own if your workmates are in the same schedule.