Puerto Rico Ballot Initiative

[jimmy olsen]

If we lived in a sane world that wasn't driven by identity politics, I think the US would be forcing Puerto Rico to become a state with Puerto Rico resisting. It is crazy they get an income tax exclusion and are contemplating giving it up.

I don't see how the 2nd follows the other?

You act like they would be given up their exemption for nothing. 2 Senators, 5 House Reps, Presidential voting, and increased federal benefits and investment is more than worth it.

[alfred russel]

If we lived in a sane world that wasn't driven by identity politics, I think the US would be forcing Puerto Rico to become a state with Puerto Rico resisting. It is crazy they get an income tax exclusion and are contemplating giving it up.

I don't see how the 2nd follows the other?

You act like they would be given up their exemption for nothing. 2 Senators, 5 House Reps, Presidential voting, and increased federal benefits and investment is more than worth it.

My ability to vote for a house member, president, and senate is certainly not worth being subject to income taxes--I would think most people who pay or will pay income taxes feel that way.

They already get lots of federal benefits, and many companies have set up operations there because it allows them to remain in the US but still have the associated tax breaks with Puerto Rico.

[celedhring]

One of my favorite moments from the republican primary was when Santorum thought he could win Puerto Rico with a platform for them to become a state but learn english first.

Subsequently followed by House Republicans introducing another English Unity Act, endearing them to latin voters just a few months before a presidential election.

Who runs that party?

[Viking]

One of my favorite moments from the republican primary was when Santorum thought he could win Puerto Rico with a platform for them to become a state but learn english first.

Subsequently followed by House Republicans introducing another English Unity Act, endearing them to latin voters just a few months before a presidential election.

Who runs that party?

Koch, Adelson, Fries, Nordqvist, Ailes and Armey

[jimmy olsen]

If we lived in a sane world that wasn't driven by identity politics, I think the US would be forcing Puerto Rico to become a state with Puerto Rico resisting. It is crazy they get an income tax exclusion and are contemplating giving it up.

I don't see how the 2nd follows the other?

You act like they would be given up their exemption for nothing. 2 Senators, 5 House Reps, Presidential voting, and increased federal benefits and investment is more than worth it.

My ability to vote for a house member, president, and senate is certainly not worth being subject to income taxes--I would think most people who pay or will pay income taxes feel that way.

I think that is a literally lunatic proposition. I doubt even most Libertarians feel that way. Your statement flies in the face of American history and common sense.

The ability to vote was what the revolution was about, not taxes. As soon as we won we had no problem with being taxed by our representatives. The income tax was a popular reform that was instituted via a constitutional amendment. 

[celedhring]

Regarding taxes, Puerto Rico also has to levy extra income tax to make up for some of the entitlements that aren't fully covered by the federal government, so overall taxation wouldn't rise as much as one would expect once the feds took care.

[alfred russel]

I think that is a literally lunatic proposition. I doubt even most Libertarians feel that way. Your statement flies in the face of American history and common sense.

The ability to vote was what the revolution was about, not taxes. As soon as we won we had no problem with being taxed by our representatives. The income tax was a popular reform that was instituted via a constitutional amendment.

Christ Tim, 40% or so of people don't vote now when it is free. You really expect there would be good turnout of people had to pay 25% of their income for the chance?

[jimmy olsen]

I think that is a literally lunatic proposition. I doubt even most Libertarians feel that way. Your statement flies in the face of American history and common sense.

The ability to vote was what the revolution was about, not taxes. As soon as we won we had no problem with being taxed by our representatives. The income tax was a popular reform that was instituted via a constitutional amendment.

Christ Tim, 40% or so of people don't vote now when it is free. You really expect there would be good turnout of people had to pay 25% of their income for the chance?

I don't consider voting free. All the burdens of citizenship, including taxation come with it.

[jimmy olsen]

Anyways, congress is full of asshats who don't understand democracy. If people chose not to vote for one of three options, they should not be able to cry and put the kibosh on the outcome just because their favorite option wasn't on the ballot.

I should note, in that 2010 vote that was 223-169, there were 39 Republicans who voted yes.
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/266799-congress-expected-to-ignore-puerto-ricos-statehood-vote

Congress expected to ignore Puerto Rico's vote for statehood
By Pete Kasperowicz - 11/08/12 09:16 AM ET

Congress is likely to respond to Puerto Rico's vote in favor of statehood with stony silence, and is not expected to undertake any effort to make Puerto Rico the 51st state.

Puerto Rico's vote to seek statehood with the United States seems historic on its face, since the island territory had never formally approved such a referendum. But congressional staffers said the numbers behind the vote, plus the related political circumstances under which it occurred, mean few in Congress are expected to see any pressing need to pass legislation related to the island's status.

On the numbers, Puerto Ricans voted 922,374-786,749 against the status quo of the island being a U.S. territory. With that hurdle cleared, 61 percent of voters chose statehood in a second question, and 39 percent picked other options.

But the ballot did not include other non-statehood options, and hundreds of thousands of voters left blank their preferred choice. CNN reported this week that this flaw in the vote could mean that the option of statehood might still garner less than 50 percent of the vote, and could be near the 46 to 48 percent level of support that has been seen in past votes.

Republican and Democratic staffers in the House told The Hill this week that they are fully aware of these details, which is why the vote is not being seen in Congress as reason to start considering legislation for Puerto Rico's statehood. One House aide said the 61 percent vote in favor of statehood is seem by some in Congress as a "statistical fiction."

The political circumstances surrounding the vote are also being seen as real hurdles to making the island a U.S. state. Most importantly, Puerto Rican voters also decided to oust Republican Gov. Luis Fortuno, a strong supporter of statehood.

Fortuno was beaten by Alejandro Garcia Padilla, who wants Puerto Rico to remain a U.S. territory. This means that while Puerto Rico's non-voting Resident Commissioner Pedro Pierluisi (D) will continue to push for statehood in the U.S. Congress, the effort is unlikely to go anywhere.

"The new government doesn't support statehood," one House aide said flatly, speaking of the new governor.

Pierluisi, who won reelection on Tuesday, told reporters this week that the statehood referendum means the U.S. Congress will "have to react." But his office did not respond to a request for comment about whether Pierluisi effectively lost his mandate to keep pursuing statehood when Garcia was elected.

Another House aide said some in Congress see the mandate for statehood as being significantly weakened because some believe it was only raised in an effort by Fortuno to draw more voters into the voting booths to help save his own reelection. This aide said that perception hurts Puerto Rico's case, since it makes the vote look like an attempt to engineer the outcome of the governor's race, rather than a sincere attempt to seek statehood.

"As a strategy, it failed miserably," this aide added, given that Fortuno lost his race anyway.

Puerto Rico faces other hurdles within the United States. Statehood for the island is an issue that Republicans tend to oppose, which makes it highly unlikely that House Republicans would advance the issue even if Puerto Rico were making a genuine push for this change.

The House voted 223-169 in favor of statehood in 2010, but that vote was held when Democrats controlled the chamber.

It's also unclear whether the Obama administration sees Puerto Rico's vote as an action-forcing event. The Obama administration assembled a task force on Puerto Rico's status, which released a report in 2010 that outlined several status options the island might pursue.

But the administration did not respond to a request for comment on how it sees the vote. The State Department, which participated in the task-force report, deferred questions to the White House.

Over the summer, the Democrats' 2012 political platform said Puerto Rico needs to decide for itself what change in status it should seek in relation to the United States. But it also said that if the Nov. 6 vote does not resolve the issue, the U.S. should set out a clear set of options for the island.

As of this week, at least, it's unclear whether the administration sees the Nov. 6 vote as providing clarity, or muddling the question even further.

[celedhring]

To be honest, the structure of the vote makes it a poor way to provide a good majority. As said, it seems that statehood will garner less than 48%, and you can't push a momentous decision like that with just a plurality.

What PR should do is to make a clear-cut statehood vote: do you want to become an US state? Y/N

[Eddie Teach]

Anyways, congress is full of asshats who don't understand democracy. If people chose not to vote for one of three options, they should not be able to cry and put the kibosh on the outcome just because their favorite option wasn't on the ballot.

Yeah, clearly the democratic thing is to bundle the people who want statehood and the people who want independence together to create a majority.

[Razgovory]

If we lived in a sane world that wasn't driven by identity politics, I think the US would be forcing Puerto Rico to become a state with Puerto Rico resisting. It is crazy they get an income tax exclusion and are contemplating giving it up.

I don't see how the 2nd follows the other?

You act like they would be given up their exemption for nothing. 2 Senators, 5 House Reps, Presidential voting, and increased federal benefits and investment is more than worth it.

My ability to vote for a house member, president, and senate is certainly not worth being subject to income taxes--I would think most people who pay or will pay income taxes feel that way.

They already get lots of federal benefits, and many companies have set up operations there because it allows them to remain in the US but still have the associated tax breaks with Puerto Rico.

Would most people in Puerto Rico even have to pay federal income tax?  The ability to send voting members of Congress would mean much more federal money spent in their areas.  It would probably be a net benefit on matters of income.

[derspiess]

LOL, tainted.

[Valmy]

Puerto Rico faces other hurdles within the United States. Statehood for the island is an issue that Republicans tend to oppose, which makes it highly unlikely that House Republicans would advance the issue even if Puerto Rico were making a genuine push for this change.

Heh.  Wow the Republicans' level of political sanity continues to slip.  I guess they just want to be seen as the anti-Latino party.  That will do wonders for them in the future.

[derspiess]

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.