Dreadnought Day

[Ed Anger]

The Samuel B Roberts's name will echo through history. The shitstains in Kurita's force? Forgotten.

[Razgovory]

Tell me then, how many aircraft carriers did the planes come from that sank the Yamato?

Not near my books, but Wiki says 11.

I'm seeing 8 some of which are escort carriers  Against several Japanese ships.  It doesn't seem overwhelming odds unless carriers completely outclass battleships.

Yamato was effectively alone.  IJN destroyers were pretty much useless against air attack and the Agano-class light cruisers weren't much better.  Read up on the Japanese 25-mm AA mount.

Either way, 8 against 1 and a little bit is massively outnumbered.

So how many Yamatos would be required to win the day?

[Neil]

Hard to say.  Then again, the Yamato might not be the best example, what with its defective armour, low-grade fire control and substandard AA weapons.  Damage control wasn't that great either.

[Razgovory]

Also it was hampered by it's inability to launch large numbers of airplanes from it's deck.

[Neil]

Also it was hampered by it's inability to launch large numbers of airplanes from it's deck.

How would that have helped?

[Razgovory]

Also it was hampered by it's inability to launch large numbers of airplanes from it's deck.

How would that have helped?

They could have shot down the waves of airplanes that were attacking it.

[Neil]

Also it was hampered by it's inability to launch large numbers of airplanes from it's deck.

How would that have helped?

They could have shot down the waves of airplanes that were attacking it.

No they couldn't have.  The Japanese pilot corps that had been so much better than the USN equivalent had been decimated by then, and the IJN wasn't built to replace those pilots quickly.  Only the best of the best got to be pilots in the IJN, and so by the time they got around to the end of the war, they were putting poorly-trained and inexperienced kids in the air against the USN's veterans.

No, if you wanted to shoot down aircraft, you were better off with a proper AA suite and fire control.

[dps]

I think a better argument would be the Yamato.

Sunk by air attack, in open water:
HMS Repulse, sunk by Japanese aircraft off Malaya, December 10 1941 with loss of 436 crew.

HMS Prince of Wales, sunk by Japanese aircraft off Malaya, December 10 1941 with loss of 327 crew.

Italian battleship Roma, sunk by Luftwaffe Fritz-X glider bombs on September 9, 1943 with loss of 1,353 crew.

INS Hiei, sunk by US Navy and USAF aircraft off of Guadalcanal, November 13, 1942 with loss of 188 crew.

INS Musashi, sunk by US Navy aircraft during the Battle of Leyte Gulf on October 24, 1944 with loss of over 1,000 crew.

INS Yamato, sunk by US air attacks off of Okinawa April 7, 1945 with loss of 2,475 men.

Greek battleship Kilkis, sunk by Germany Ju-87 bombers in the Salamis Channel on April 23, 1941.

Greek battleship Limnos, sunk by Germany Ju-87 bombers in the Salamis Channel on April 23, 1941.

HNLMS De Zeven Provincien was sunk by Japanese bombers off of Surabaya, February 18, 1942. Raised by the Japanese and used as a floating battery, then sunk by allied bombers in 1943.

You list is rather diminished by the last three, two pre-dreadnought and a coastal defence ship; a total of 8-12in and 2-11in guns don't quite make a whole single dreadnought.

Limnos and Kilkis were barely even pre-dreadnoughts by that point.  One was a training ship, the other was essentially an accomodations hulk (forget which is which).

[Neil]

I'm sure that the Germans tried to claim that they'd sunk battleships though.  That would, in Goering's mind, salve the pride of his service being outfought at every turn by the RN.

[11B4V]

I just think it's important that we note that yesterday was the anniversary of the last dreadnought gun duel.  They finally got their fleet battle, and they fell victim to the crossing of the T.

Poor Japanese.

Who cares.

[Neil]

I just think it's important that we note that yesterday was the anniversary of the last dreadnought gun duel.  They finally got their fleet battle, and they fell victim to the crossing of the T.

Poor Japanese.

Who cares.

I do.

[Ed Anger]

I just think it's important that we note that yesterday was the anniversary of the last dreadnought gun duel.  They finally got their fleet battle, and they fell victim to the crossing of the T.

Poor Japanese.

Who cares.

Raciss

[Kleves]

You list is rather diminished by the last three, two pre-dreadnought and a coastal defence ship; a total of 8-12in and 2-11in guns don't quite make a whole single dreadnought.

Where's the list of carriers sunk by dreadnoughts?

[Neil]

You list is rather diminished by the last three, two pre-dreadnought and a coastal defence ship; a total of 8-12in and 2-11in guns don't quite make a whole single dreadnought.

Where's the list of carriers sunk by dreadnoughts?

There are only two:  Gambier Bay and Glorious.

Fighting carriers isn't a dreadnought's job.  They are weapons of heirarchical warfare, and therefore fighting carriers was beneath them.

[Neil]

Mind you, if you want to only include dreadnoughts sunk by carrier aircraft, then the list of battleships sunk drops to two:  Yamato and Musashi.