POTUS Debate II: The Empire Strikes Back at the Wrath of Electric Mittensaloo

[garbon]

To continue Meri:

http://www.nacsonline.com/NACS/RESOURCES/CAMPAIGNS/2010GASPRICEKIT/Pages/HowDoRetailersGetGasoline.aspx

[OttoVonBismarck]

Left or right I hope at least on Languish everyone understands that:

1. The President cannot control gas prices.
2. The President cannot create net jobs.
3. The President cannot directly control China's currency policies.

The closest of those three a President can control would be number three, because the President is our chief diplomat and has wide latitude in how he deals with other countries. Persuasion and belligerence can sometimes cause another country to change their policies, when they have reason to acquiesce. (In the case of China, China itself has long known its currency would have to increase in value relative to the dollar, and as has been stated they've started to change how they behave in regard to their currency.)

The President can impact gas prices in the short term with the SPR and in the long term with oil permits, but that's a small impact. It's a big world out there and places like Russia and Venezuela have a lot more to do with global oil prices than anything the U.S. President is capable of doing.

On the issue of jobs, at best the President can propose policies, which if backed by Congress can create environments fertile for job growth. But a President and a government can no more create jobs than I can create new plants. I can plant seeds, water them, make sure they're in good soil, and make sure it gets adequate sunlight. But I don't have direct control over the growth of the plant. Jobs are the same way.

[merithyn]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/31/news/economy/gas_price_2008/index.htm

Ah, okay. I said when he took office, but I meant when he was elected. But regardless, gas prices had been ridiculously high before he was elected, there was a dip, and then it bounced back up to ridiculously high. It certainly doesn't lead one to believe that it was Obama's policies that caused the higher rates. It may not have been a lie, but it wasn't completely honest, either.

[garbon]

A friend on FB posted this: http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2008/10/gas-prices-2.html

Turns out Romney was way off on the gas prices thing four years ago. Gas prices were $2.66 when Obama took office, which was down from $3.48 the month before that.

So I just posted some graphs but is there any reason your friend picked October 2008? Seems like a random date.

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2008/12/gas-prices-2.html

[garbon]

Ah, okay. I said when he took office, but I meant when he was elected. But regardless, gas prices had been ridiculously high before he was elected, there was a dip, and then it bounced back up to ridiculously high. It certainly doesn't lead one to believe that it was Obama's policies that caused the higher rates. It may not have been a lie, but it wasn't completely honest, either.

Oh I agreed with the point that it has nothing to do with his policies but just that he wasn't completely off-base on the figures.

[merithyn]

So I just posted some graphs but is there any reason your friend picked October 2008? Seems like a random date.

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2008/12/gas-prices-2.html

No clue. I'm guessing that he was going with the last full week before the election.

[HVC]

I call it: Obama on a split decision.

I say draw.  Both guys landed good punches, both guys looked bad at times.

Draw goes to the prez. This is as close as you'll ever come to saying obama rightfully won something. embrace it

[DGuller]

I agree with all the frustration about gas price bullshit.  I wish some politician would admit that US doesn't have the world oil market cornered, and can't manipulate it at will.  Instead, we just get bullshit upon bullshit spun, depending on what point needs to be made.  Both Obama and Romney are guilty of it, but Romney's bullshit was far more brazen.  No, Mitt, gas price movements over a couple of years are not indicative of the effectiveness of the energy policy of one nation out of many.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Gas prices were low around the time of the last election because we were in the depths of a massive recession. People out of work don't drive as much. Factories closed down don't use as much energy. When it includes basically the entire G8 it means demand for petroleum globally is going to be very low. Lower demand means lower prices for petroleum which ultimately would be reflected in lower gas prices.

A big drop in gas prices is correlated generally to bad economic conditions, as a guy invested in oil company stocks I could almost predict what the Dow or the Global economy look like just by checking the current value of my holdings in StatOil, Exxon, and Conoco. Obviously sometimes it's not so simple, natural gas prices used to fluctuate like that but a glut of new supply has meant a long-term downward shift in price that, while it still moves with the economy, has not yet shown any signs of moving dramatically upward anytime soon.

[garbon]

I call it: Obama on a split decision.

I say draw.  Both guys landed good punches, both guys looked bad at times.

Draw goes to the prez. This is as close as you'll ever come to saying obama rightfully won something. embrace it

Maybe, but if he wants to get Romney off of his coat-tails - he should, you know, try winning one of these things outright.

[OttoVonBismarck]

So who thinks the black dude and the hispanic chick were plants for Obama? No way they were undecided voters.

[merithyn]

Maybe, but if he wants to get Romney off of his coat-tails - he should, you know, try winning one of these things outright.

One more left. Unfortunately, I doubt many people are going to bother watching the last one given how dull the majority of people find these things.

[merithyn]

So who thinks the black dude and the hispanic chick were plants for Obama? No way they were undecided voters.

The black dude sounded just like a friend of mine who voted for Obama the first time around, and who is now completely disgusted by his first term. She still isn't sure who she's voting for.

[HVC]

didn't watch this one, but after the first one i thought maybe Obama was throwing in the towel. Has a president ever resigned after one term?

[OttoVonBismarck]

Black dude may not be ready to vote Obama again, but I don't think he's a true undecided. He's trying to decide between voting for Obama and staying home, no way he's even considering $250m net worth Mitt Romney.

The Hispanic woman clearly cares about illegals being able to get a green card somehow--unless she's been in a coma for the past 8 months she'd know Mitt and the Republicans are absolutely against giving amnesty to almost any illegals, Obama is for it. Unless the issue isn't important to her, I don't see how she was undecided.