POTUS Debate II: The Empire Strikes Back at the Wrath of Electric Mittensaloo

[Josephus]

A friend on FB posted this: http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2008/10/gas-prices-2.html

Turns out Romney was way off on the gas prices thing four years ago. Gas prices were $2.66 when Obama took office, which was down from $3.48 the month before that.

Romney gets his facts wrong?

Darling, do keep up. We've already note that Meri's fact-checking friend was piss-poor on his hunt.

Yes....I know

[lustindarkness]

http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-stumbles-latest-presidential-debate-015330844--election.html

[The Minsky Moment]

Back in Rose Garden, was Obama referring to Al Qaeda?  A lynch mob killing Americans is also an act of terror, even if it's not as organized as 9/11.

He wasn't referring to anything.  The whole speech boils down to "bad people did something bad".
He didn't know the facts and so didn't characterize what happened with any specificity.

[OttoVonBismarck]

In the new Republican party the reality is only the ~30-40% of women who are soccer mom religious pro-life types will ever consider voting for the GOP. The rest (rightfully) just won't vote for an anti-choice, anti-planned parenthood, pro-barefeet and pregnant kind of guy.

I think Romney is a lot more liberal than he's acted this campaign, but given his Mormon background I think he's genuinely as conservative as he acts on women's issues.

[CountDeMoney]

I think the "binders full of women" was pretty innocuous, and really just shows how desperate some people are for a meme.

I dunno, it wasn't wholly insulting, but it was just awkward and an unwieldy example.  No qualified women applicants for high positions in Massachusetts government?  You had to ask for candidates, and flip through binders like you're a casting agent? You're going to use that as an example?   Very poor imagery, and it was a poor exercise of thinking on his feet.

It wasn't as insulting as something that Rick Santorum would knowingly say, or how Newt would start banging an intern by the end of the question, but it just didn't look good, either.   

You combine that with the Lily Ledbetter tatooing all campaign long, the issues of choice and contraception concerns that have been in play, and the overall perception of Mormonism as not exactly the most progressive of cults, it was just another shade of Mittens as someone who's either 1) at the most, clumsy or 2) at the least indifferent when it comes to addressing women's issues.

[derspiess]

Came across to me as awkward pandering so I didn't like it, but the binders thing is really reaching as far as memes go.

[DGuller]

Yeah, there were three separate problems with Mitt's response.  First of all, he offered no systemic solution.  If you're a woman trying to get a cabinet position in Romney's administration, you're in luck.  However, most women aren't going to be in that binder.  Secondly, he implied that you need affirmative action to get women hired, because naturally they aren't going to make it to that first binder with the most qualified candidates.  And, lastly, the whole "women need flexibility to have more time where they really belong:  at home" that we've already covered.

[DGuller]

Came across to me as awkward pandering so I didn't like it, but the binders thing is really reaching as far as memes go.

The binder thing is nothing in isolation, but adds a nice touch when the rest of the answer is a tone-deaf disaster.

[garbon]

Yeah, there were three separate problems with Mitt's response.  First of all, he offered no systemic solution.  If you're a woman trying to get a cabinet position in Romney's administration, you're in luck.  However, most women aren't going to be in that binder.  Secondly, he implied that you need affirmative action to get women hired, because naturally they aren't going to make it to that first binder with the most qualified candidates.  And, lastly, the whole "women need flexibility to have more time where they really belong:  at home" that we've already covered.

Whereas the systemic solution by Obama was a story about his single working mother and his grandmother, a bit about statue of limitations on equal pay cases (Lily Ledbetter) and then a discussion of helping kids pay for college. 

Also your paraphrase on flex time gets at what I thought. It had nothing to do with what Romney said but the perception from already skpetical Dems that he must be saying women should be at home.

Well, Katherine, that's a great question. And, you know,
I was raised by a single mom who had to put herself through school
while looking after two kids. And she worked hard every day and made
a lot of sacrifices to make sure we got everything we needed. My
grandmother, she started off as a secretary in a bank. She never got
a college education, even though she was smart as a whip. And she
worked her way up to become a vice president of a local bank, but she
hit the glass ceiling. She trained people who would end up becoming
her bosses during the course of her career.

She didn't complain. That's not what you did in that generation.
And this is one of the reasons why one of the first - the first bill
I signed was something called the Lily Ledbetter bill. And it's named
after this amazing woman who had been doing the same job as a man for
years, found out that she was getting paid less, and the Supreme Court
said that she couldn't bring suit because she should have found about
it earlier, whereas she had no way of finding out about it. So we
fixed that. And that's an example of the kind of advocacy that we
need, because women are increasingly the breadwinners in the family.
This is not just a women's issue, this is a family issue, this is a
middle-class issue, and that's why we've got to fight for it.

It also means that we've got to make sure that young people like
yourself are able to afford a college education. Earlier, Governor
Romney talked about he wants to make Pell Grants and other education
accessible for young people.

Well, the truth of the matter is, is that that's exactly what
we've done. We've expanded Pell Grants for millions of people,
including millions of young women, all across the country.

We did it by taking $60 billion that was going to banks and
lenders as middlemen for the student loan program, and we said, let's
just cut out the middleman. Let's give the money directly to
students.

And as a consequence, we've seen millions of young people be able
to afford college, and that's going to make sure that young women are
going to be able to compete in that marketplace.

But we've got to enforce the laws, which is what we are doing,
and we've also got to make sure that in every walk of life we do not
tolerate discrimination.

That's been one of the hallmarks of my administration. I'm going
to continue to push on this issue for the next four years.

[merithyn]

Whereas the systemic solution by Obama was a story about his single working mother and his grandmother, a bit about statue of limitations on equal pay cases (Lily Ledbetter) and then a discussion of helping kids pay for college. 

Also your paraphrase on flex time gets at what I thought. It had nothing to do with what Romney said but the perception from already skpetical Dems that he must be saying women should be at home.

*SNIP QUOTE*

I didn't read Romney as saying that women should be at home. What I read it as was that women needed special treatment in order to be able to work at the level as men.

Reading over Obama's answer, I actually kind of like his answer. He does the exact opposite of Romney and says, "It's not about women, it's about families." Well, that's true. It is. And the Lily Ledbottom thing was talking about a bill that he signed that allowed women an opportunity to sue if they've been paid unfairly even if it was a long time ago or over a long period. He talks about enforcing the laws already in place, which, well, yeah.

I think he baubled over the crap with his mother and his grandmother, though. Enough so that many - myself included - just tuned him out. Yeah, yeah, we know that you admire strong women. There's really no need to beat that dead horse anymore. Go Mom! Go Granny! 

The college thing, well, that's been my point from the beginning. Obama was answering the real reason for the disparity, that women tend to take lower-paying jobs. An affordable education will give women the opportunity to start taking more of the higher-paying position, which is the only real way to make a real difference in that pay disparity.

I mean, when you take the two answers together, you have to admit that Romney looks pretty out-of-touch with the situation whereas Obama actually gets it, even if his answers are mere platitudes.

[garbon]

I don't think I'll ever be able to get into the mindset - as far as Obama largely ignored the question and went to one of his strength education instead and somehow that's a good answer.

Oh and I left out Obama's piece after Romney spoke which was focused on women's healthcare. Also irrelevant much?

[garbon]

The college thing, well, that's been my point from the beginning. Obama was answering the real reason for the disparity, that women tend to take lower-paying jobs. An affordable education will give women the opportunity to start taking more of the higher-paying position, which is the only real way to make a real difference in that pay disparity.

This also doesn't make sense to me insofar as while our economy is fucked (which is what Romney eventually went onto as his strength), even if we had more people entering colleges - they wouldn't have good jobs to take afterward.  If anything it seems like we need to re-think our strategy of having everyone go to college. Even if it was affordable, having everyone go to college just means that employers set the bar higher.

[Razgovory]

Came across to me as awkward pandering so I didn't like it, but the binders thing is really reaching as far as memes go.

The binder thing is nothing in isolation, but adds a nice touch when the rest of the answer is a tone-deaf disaster.

Well, in isolation it's just an odd statement.  It's difficult to find women who fit into binders, and the inside of office supplies is not the woman's natural habitat.

[DGuller]

Came across to me as awkward pandering so I didn't like it, but the binders thing is really reaching as far as memes go.

The binder thing is nothing in isolation, but adds a nice touch when the rest of the answer is a tone-deaf disaster.

Well, in isolation it's just an odd statement.  It's difficult to find women who fit into binders, and the inside of office supplies is not the woman's natural habitat.

Yeah, "truck full of women" would make more sense, but everyone is allowed to misspeak once in a while.

[Phillip V]

Romney has reached his greatest lead against Obama at +6 in Gallup polling. However, polling was done up thru yesterday, so we will see starting tomorrow if Obama's stronger debate performance arrests the momentum.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/157817/election-2012-likely-voters-trial-heat-obama-romney.aspx