POTUS Debate II: The Empire Strikes Back at the Wrath of Electric Mittensaloo

[Josephus]

The college thing, well, that's been my point from the beginning. Obama was answering the real reason for the disparity, that women tend to take lower-paying jobs. An affordable education will give women the opportunity to start taking more of the higher-paying position, which is the only real way to make a real difference in that pay disparity.

This also doesn't make sense to me insofar as while our economy is fucked (which is what Romney eventually went onto as his strength), even if we had more people entering colleges - they wouldn't have good jobs to take afterward.  If anything it seems like we need to re-think our strategy of having everyone go to college. Even if it was affordable, having everyone go to college just means that employers set the bar higher.

Yeah, but I think the point was made that low-skilled jobs are out of the picture for good. We'll never get those back from China, which is why we need to focus on high-skilled (educated) labourers. There's not going to be much hope for people without a college education, at a bare minimum.

[garbon]

Yeah, but I think the point was made that low-skilled jobs are out of the picture for good. We'll never get those back from China, which is why we need to focus on high-skilled (educated) labourers. There's not going to be much hope for people without a college education, at a bare minimum.

Two things - 1 - Obama's focus for skilled jobs as he mentioned several times was manufacturing. While lovely for well rounding - not sure that a liberal education is good for that.

2 - disagree. Though we've had degree creep, there isn't a real reason for jobs like admins to need college degrees. Similarly, there are plenty of ample opportunities for things like plumbers and electricians that can't be outsourced.  While there's definitely training needed for those positions (and thus highly skilled) - a sociology degree from Framingham State isn't going to be particularly useful.

[merithyn]

This also doesn't make sense to me insofar as while our economy is fucked (which is what Romney eventually went onto as his strength), even if we had more people entering colleges - they wouldn't have good jobs to take afterward.  If anything it seems like we need to re-think our strategy of having everyone go to college. Even if it was affordable, having everyone go to college just means that employers set the bar higher.

Well, and it's kind of a silly thing to say, when you think about it. Didn't the latest numbers come out saying that there are more women in college than men? I thought it was something like 60/40, but I could be way off on that. The truth is that the disparity is being taken care of, but it's going to take time, not policy to get there. They can't say that in a debate, of course, but it's nonetheless true.

Sure, women are still going into the "traditionally" female programs, but there are more women in the more traditionally masculine fields than ever. I believe that that is the real answer to fixing that disparity. Of course, flexibility in the workplace for everyone is always good, too, but ultimately, it comes down to women choosing higher-paying careers, and that's just not a policy issue.

[merithyn]

Two things - 1 - Obama's focus for skilled jobs as he mentioned several times was manufacturing. While lovely for well rounding - not sure that a liberal education is good for that.

2 - disagree. Though we've had degree creep, there isn't a real reason for jobs like admins to need college degrees. Similarly, there are plenty of ample opportunities for things like plumbers and electricians that can't be outsourced.  While there's definitely training needed for those positions (and thus highly skilled) - a sociology degree from Framingham State isn't going to be particularly useful.

I absolutely agree on both points.

[garbon]

This also doesn't make sense to me insofar as while our economy is fucked (which is what Romney eventually went onto as his strength), even if we had more people entering colleges - they wouldn't have good jobs to take afterward.  If anything it seems like we need to re-think our strategy of having everyone go to college. Even if it was affordable, having everyone go to college just means that employers set the bar higher.

Well, and it's kind of a silly thing to say, when you think about it. Didn't the latest numbers come out saying that there are more women in college than men? I thought it was something like 60/40, but I could be way off on that. The truth is that the disparity is being taken care of, but it's going to take time, not policy to get there. They can't say that in a debate, of course, but it's nonetheless true.

Sure, women are still going into the "traditionally" female programs, but there are more women in the more traditionally masculine fields than ever. I believe that that is the real answer to fixing that disparity. Of course, flexibility in the workplace for everyone is always good, too, but ultimately, it comes down to women choosing higher-paying careers, and that's just not a policy issue.

Yeah it would be political suicide to suggest that the majority of problems faced on that front have already been addressed about as well as they can from a policy standpoint.

[merithyn]

This also doesn't make sense to me insofar as while our economy is fucked (which is what Romney eventually went onto as his strength), even if we had more people entering colleges - they wouldn't have good jobs to take afterward.  If anything it seems like we need to re-think our strategy of having everyone go to college. Even if it was affordable, having everyone go to college just means that employers set the bar higher.

Well, and it's kind of a silly thing to say, when you think about it. Didn't the latest numbers come out saying that there are more women in college than men? I thought it was something like 60/40, but I could be way off on that. The truth is that the disparity is being taken care of, but it's going to take time, not policy to get there. They can't say that in a debate, of course, but it's nonetheless true.

Sure, women are still going into the "traditionally" female programs, but there are more women in the more traditionally masculine fields than ever. I believe that that is the real answer to fixing that disparity. Of course, flexibility in the workplace for everyone is always good, too, but ultimately, it comes down to women choosing higher-paying careers, and that's just not a policy issue.

Yeah it would be political suicide to suggest that the majority of problems faced on that front have already been addressed about as well as they can from a policy standpoint.

In other words, Obama had no choice but to spout bullshit. He just did it better than Romney did.

[garbon]

This also doesn't make sense to me insofar as while our economy is fucked (which is what Romney eventually went onto as his strength), even if we had more people entering colleges - they wouldn't have good jobs to take afterward.  If anything it seems like we need to re-think our strategy of having everyone go to college. Even if it was affordable, having everyone go to college just means that employers set the bar higher.

Well, and it's kind of a silly thing to say, when you think about it. Didn't the latest numbers come out saying that there are more women in college than men? I thought it was something like 60/40, but I could be way off on that. The truth is that the disparity is being taken care of, but it's going to take time, not policy to get there. They can't say that in a debate, of course, but it's nonetheless true.

Sure, women are still going into the "traditionally" female programs, but there are more women in the more traditionally masculine fields than ever. I believe that that is the real answer to fixing that disparity. Of course, flexibility in the workplace for everyone is always good, too, but ultimately, it comes down to women choosing higher-paying careers, and that's just not a policy issue.

Yeah it would be political suicide to suggest that the majority of problems faced on that front have already been addressed about as well as they can from a policy standpoint.

In other words, Obama had no choice but to spout bullshit. He just did it better than Romney did.

He was better at deflecting the question as it isn't a sore spot for him. On the flip side, Romney had to address it as to shy from it would just play into Seedy/Jacob's Republican War on Women.

[The Brain]

Similarly, there are plenty of ample opportunities for things like plumbers and electricians that can't be outsourced.  While there's definitely training needed for those positions (and thus highly skilled) - a sociology degree from Framingham State isn't going to be particularly useful.

Guest workers from the Third World.

[Jacob]

It's the Religious Right's Republican War on women. Got nothing to do with me.

[garbon]

It's the Religious Right's Republican War on women. Got nothing to do with me.

Those who sell a canard get identified with it.

[garbon]

Similarly, there are plenty of ample opportunities for things like plumbers and electricians that can't be outsourced.  While there's definitely training needed for those positions (and thus highly skilled) - a sociology degree from Framingham State isn't going to be particularly useful.

Guest workers from the Third World.

I don't see how that'd be viable. We already decry it when Dubai does it.

[Jacob]

Those who sell a canard get identified with it.

You're the one who brought it up, you canard-monger you.

[The Brain]

Similarly, there are plenty of ample opportunities for things like plumbers and electricians that can't be outsourced.  While there's definitely training needed for those positions (and thus highly skilled) - a sociology degree from Framingham State isn't going to be particularly useful.

Guest workers from the Third World.

I don't see how that'd be viable. We already decry it when Dubai does it.

In Sweden we use Slavs. Works reasonably well.

[Neil]

I didn't read Romney as saying that women should be at home. What I read it as was that women needed special treatment in order to be able to work at the level as men.

...

[merithyn]

I didn't read Romney as saying that women should be at home. What I read it as was that women needed special treatment in order to be able to work at the level as men.

...

Hush, you.