POTUS Debate II: The Empire Strikes Back at the Wrath of Electric Mittensaloo

[Sheilbh]

I missed this because I was sleeping off a holiday. My impression is even if it was a draw on points it was a potentially big Obama win. The Libya answer is a debate 'moment' because Romney fucked up. Last time there wasn't a moment because Obama was just bad, he didn't cock up anything. At worst, for Obama, I think this puts a floor under his numbers.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Obama already had a floor on his numbers, it's called blacks, people on welfare, people in unions, and women.

[Eddie Teach]

Obama already had a floor on his numbers, it's called blacks, people on welfare, people in unions, and women.

Sounds like he's got the election wrapped up then, seeing he's got 2/3 of the electorate there.

[OttoVonBismarck]

It'd be 2/3rds if he had all the women. There is a gender gap, often guesstimated at 10%, by which women favor Democrats (so 60/40 split.)

[Faeelin]

Obama already had a floor on his numbers, it's called blacks, people on welfare, people in unions, and women.

Wow, all blacks and women? Romney's fucked.

[garbon]

So while it was silly (and easy to laugh at) - I'm not sure how Romney's binders of women answer translates into sexism.  Is it sexist to say that you made you were able to hire women candidates and allowed female staffers with children flex time?  I can see it seeming like bullshit rhetoric given that it is a) Romney and b) his stance on reproductive rights but that's about it. 

I saw friends posting all over facebook with "I'm a woman and I don't need no flex time." which leads me to believe that people are suggesting that Romney's positing a place where only women stay at home to raise the kids (so if they want to work, they'd better have time to raise kids too). (which is apparently the take in the guardian article below).  That makes it seem less about what he said then (as flex time has generally been seen as a positive by feminists) and more about the already negative opinions that Democrat women have for him

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/17/romney-binders-full-of-women

[DGuller]

I guess the solution to gender inequality in the workforce is to understand that women need to be given some time to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.  And plenty of affirmative action.

[merithyn]

So while it was silly (and easy to laugh at) - I'm not sure how Romney's binders of women answer translates into sexism.  Is it sexist to say that you made you were able to hire women candidates and allowed female staffers with children flex time?  I can see it seeming like bullshit rhetoric given that it is a) Romney and b) his stance on reproductive rights but that's about it. 

I saw friends posting all over facebook with "I'm a woman and I don't need no flex time." which leads me to believe that people are suggesting that Romney's positing a place where only women stay at home to raise the kids (so if they want to work, they'd better have time to raise kids too). (which is apparently the take in the guardian article below).  That makes it seem less about what he said then (as flex time has generally been seen as a positive by feminists) and more about the already negative opinions that Democrat women have for him

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/17/romney-binders-full-of-women

What bothered me about the comment was that none of the initial candidates were women, despite the fact that he had "binders full of qualified women". It took him requesting them specifically before they were trotted out to be vetted.

As for the flex time thing, I had to explain to my single, childless female friend why that was so important to parents. She said, "If it's important to parents, why did he only mention it in regards to women? Don't men need it, too?" Which, to me, kind of sums up the problem.

[Grey Fox]

Flex time is important to me! Hell, I have flex time, my gf doesn't.

Also, I took 10 weeks off to take care of my kids while she work.

but is it an issue for one of the parties? Is it even on the agenda?

[Kleves]

The Libya answer is a debate 'moment' because Romney fucked up.

I am not sure that will have a big impact. It looked bad on TV, but the media (maybe not MSNBC) has been pointing out that Romney was substantively right about what the president said (the video caused the attack), even if he was technically wrong about the words the president used.

[merithyn]

Flex time is important to me! Hell, I have flex time, my gf doesn't.

Also, I took 10 weeks off to take care of my kids while she work.

but is it an issue for one of the parties? Is it even on the agenda?

This is the first time I've heard it brought up, so probably not. It was just a way for Mitt to explain how "pro-woman" he is, despite his religion and personal opinion regarding birth control, etc. It sounded, to me, like a way to try to mitigate the "Republicans are anti-women!!" mantra that's been danced out all election season.

[merithyn]

The Libya answer is a debate 'moment' because Romney fucked up.

I am not sure that will have a big impact. It looked bad on TV, but the media (maybe not MSNBC) has been pointing out that Romney was substantively right about what the president said (the video caused the attack), even if he was technically wrong about the words the president used.

What made it bad, in my opinion, was the way it was played out by both candidates. Mitt kept trying to "catch" Obama in a lie, and Obama just said, "No, really, just keep going." That, to me, made it look like Obama really had the upper hand during the discourse. On top of that, Obama took absolute responsibility for what happened to the ambassador, while Mitt never acknowledged that he handled the situation poorly.

From beginning to end, that whole vignette went to Obama.

[DGuller]

From the POV of a man, it seems to me that the main problem with Mitt's woman response is that he betrayed the gender stereotypes while trying to show how understanding he is.  It's almost like he went "Employers have to be flexible enough to not put too much on the women's shoulders during that time of the month."

[merithyn]

From the POV of a man, it seems to me that the main problem with Mitt's woman response is that he betrayed the gender stereotypes while trying to show how understanding he is.  It's almost like he went "Employers have to be flexible enough to not put too much on the women's shoulders during that time of the month."

I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but yeah, that's kind of how it felt to me, too. He wasn't responding as though women were as capable, adaptable, and necessary as men. Just that they could be useful if things were made just so for them.

[Kleves]

From beginning to end, that whole vignette went to Obama.

I think the same, but Obama did have a big advantage in that exchange - Mitt can hardly say that he takes responsbility for what happened, or that he feels terrible when he greets the coffins coming home or when he grieves with the families or whatever. Next to that, any attacks would look fairly petty.