Probably the biggest turn we ever made was when the women got the right to vote.

[garbon]

Meri: both Target and Walmart offer a month supply of berf control pills for $9.  No insurance required

You know that not all pills are made the same, right? That the $9 pill may not be the one that best suits a woman's medical concerns?

So?  The generic cholesterol medicine that my health insurance would pay for back when I was carrying health insurance wasn't necessarily the best cholesterol medicine for me, either.

I think a better argument would be that those two listed big box stores aren't easy to reach for many - especially those in cities.

[Scipio]

Pretty interesting take from a libertarian. @ scips

It's called sarcasm.  I understand it's all the rage.

I do know that you can't get pregnant without fucking, barring an act of God.

[Razgovory]

Arguments about health care insurance aside, I think Meri is still missing the point that the Tea Party movement is basically about fiscally responsible government, not social issues.

Except it's not.  As Derspeiss pointed how that people who hate the tea party, see things in that aren't necessarily there, people who support see things in that aren't there either.  The Tea Party stood for very little except dissatisfaction amongst conservatives.

Asked what they are most angry about, the top four answers among Tea Party supporters who identify as angry were the health care reform bill (16 percent), the government not representing the people (14 percent), government spending (11 percent) and unemployment and the economy (8 percent).

More than nine in ten (92 percent) say America is on the wrong track, while just six percent say the country is headed in the right direction. Fifty-nine percent of Americans overall say the country is on the wrong track.

Eighty-eight percent disapprove of President Obama's performance on the job, compared to 40 percent of Americans overall. While half of Americans approve of Mr. Obama's job performance, just seven percent of Tea Party supporters say he is doing a good job.

Asked to volunteer what they don't like about Mr. Obama, the top answer, offered by 19 percent of Tea Party supporters, was that they just don't like him. Eleven percent said he is turning the country more toward socialism, ten percent cited his health care reform efforts, and nine percent said he is dishonest.

Seventy-seven percent describe Mr. Obama as "very liberal," compared to 31 percent of Americans overall. Fifty-six percent say the president's policies favor the poor, compared to 27 percent of Americans overall.

Sixty-four percent believe that the president has increased taxes for most Americans, despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans got a tax cut under the Obama administration. Thirty-four percent of the general public says the president has raised taxes on most Americans.

While most Americans (58 percent) say the president understands their needs and problems, just 24 percent of Tea Party supporters agree. Just one in five say the president shares the values of most Americans.

Only one percent of Tea Party supporters approve of the job Congress is doing, compared to 17 percent of Americans overall.

Twenty-four percent of Tea Party supporters say it is sometimes justified to take violent action against the government. That compares to 16 percent of Americans overall who say violence against the government is sometimes justified.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20002529-503544.html

[Jacob]

Pretty interesting take from a libertarian. @ scips

It's called sarcasm.  I understand it's all the rage.

I do know that you can't get pregnant without fucking, barring an act of God.

That's factually incorrect, Amski.

I'm not sure what it brings to the conversation, but it's whatever it does bring, it's also incorrect.

[garbon]

Pretty interesting take from a libertarian. @ scips

It's called sarcasm.  I understand it's all the rage.

I do know that you can't get pregnant without fucking, barring an act of God.

That's factually incorrect, Amski.

I'm not sure what it brings to the conversation, but it's whatever it does bring, it's also incorrect.

[merithyn]

So?  The generic cholesterol medicine that my health insurance would pay for back when I was carrying health insurance wasn't necessarily the best cholesterol medicine for me, either.

Apples and oranges.

The hormones are different from pill to pill. Some are good for birth control but bad for cancer. Some are bad for regulating periods, but do a great job of mitigating breast cancers concerns. They are not only a little different, they are, in fact, very different medications with very different indications.

A better analogy is should I take Aspirin, Acetametophin, or IBUprofen? They're all pain relievers, but they all have different contra-indications and different positive indications. You don't give someone suffering from an ulcer an IBUprofen or an aspirin, but a Tylenol works fine. At the same time, it's a waste of time to give IBUprofen or Acetametophin to someone who has a heart condition.

[garbon]

Arguments about health care insurance aside, I think Meri is still missing the point that the Tea Party movement is basically about fiscally responsible government, not social issues.

Except it's not.  As Derspeiss pointed how that people who hate the tea party, see things in that aren't necessarily there, people who support see things in that aren't there either.  The Tea Party stood for very little except dissatisfaction amongst conservatives.

Asked what they are most angry about, the top four answers among Tea Party supporters who identify as angry were the health care reform bill (16 percent), the government not representing the people (14 percent), government spending (11 percent) and unemployment and the economy (8 percent).

More than nine in ten (92 percent) say America is on the wrong track, while just six percent say the country is headed in the right direction. Fifty-nine percent of Americans overall say the country is on the wrong track.

Eighty-eight percent disapprove of President Obama's performance on the job, compared to 40 percent of Americans overall. While half of Americans approve of Mr. Obama's job performance, just seven percent of Tea Party supporters say he is doing a good job.

Asked to volunteer what they don't like about Mr. Obama, the top answer, offered by 19 percent of Tea Party supporters, was that they just don't like him. Eleven percent said he is turning the country more toward socialism, ten percent cited his health care reform efforts, and nine percent said he is dishonest.

Seventy-seven percent describe Mr. Obama as "very liberal," compared to 31 percent of Americans overall. Fifty-six percent say the president's policies favor the poor, compared to 27 percent of Americans overall.

Sixty-four percent believe that the president has increased taxes for most Americans, despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans got a tax cut under the Obama administration. Thirty-four percent of the general public says the president has raised taxes on most Americans.

While most Americans (58 percent) say the president understands their needs and problems, just 24 percent of Tea Party supporters agree. Just one in five say the president shares the values of most Americans.

Only one percent of Tea Party supporters approve of the job Congress is doing, compared to 17 percent of Americans overall.

Twenty-four percent of Tea Party supporters say it is sometimes justified to take violent action against the government. That compares to 16 percent of Americans overall who say violence against the government is sometimes justified.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20002529-503544.html

3 out of those 4 top things they are angry about involve money. And then 4th can't be assessed as the descriptor is ambiguous.

[garbon]

[merithyn]

Arguments about health care insurance aside, I think Meri is still missing the point that the Tea Party movement is basically about fiscally responsible government, not social issues.  Tea Party adovocates, as such, really don't really care one way or another whether or not employers, including Catholic institutions, have to include birth control in the health care plans they provide for their employees, so Tea Party influence within the Republican Party is irrelevant to that discussion.  The influence of the "religious right", though, is a different story.

The Tea Party platform is all about fiscal responsibility, except where it's about social issues like denying people the right to marry (God's law), re-instating religion in schools and government buildings (what the forefathers wanted), and providing healthcare for everyone (that's what charity is for).  The Tea Party Platform

The truth is that I agree with a good portion of what they suggest, but then MOST people agree with a good bit of what they propose. Even Obama agrees with some of their platform ( HR-3808 ).  It's the bits where the religious right get involved where it all falls apart for me.

Even if you agree with Meri's position on health care, I think it's unfair to characterize women who disagree with it as "stupid".  First, in order to agree with her, you have to agree with the proposition that the concerns of some women about having affordable access to contraceptives should trump the rights of employers to practice their religious beliefs.  It seems to me that there's a fine line here between the free exercise clause of the 1st Amendment and the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment.  I wouldn't characterize people who fall on either side of the argument as "stupid".  Second, it seems to me that even a woman who comes down on the same side of that argument as Meri does could still reasonably decide to vote Republican because she agrees with the Republicans more than the Democrats on other issues, and isn't a single-issue voter.

It was a stupid comment on my part. I don't get how women could vote against themselves, but like you say, it doesn't mean that they are stupid.

Additionally, I have a philosophical problem with considering birth control strictly a woman's issue.  A big part of the reason that we have so many unplanned pregnancies is that way too many men don't consider birth control something that they should worry about, and characterizing access to birth control as a woman's issue would tend to just reinforce that attitude.

On this, we are in total agreement. I can't wait until the pill for men hit the market. That will completely change the world's perspective on this, I think.

[Malthus]

"Go forth and multiply."

It's all in the math.

:smug:

Hey it says multiply. Not increase exponentially. 

[Razgovory]

3 out of those 4 top things they are angry about involve money. And then 4th can't be assessed as the descriptor is ambiguous.

That's an interesting way to spin it.

[MadImmortalMan]

The Tea Party Platform

I'm pretty sure that blogger is not the guy who gets to write the official platform for them. 

[garbon]

3 out of those 4 top things they are angry about involve money. And then 4th can't be assessed as the descriptor is ambiguous.

That's an interesting way to spin it.

Spin?

health care reform bill (16 percent), the government not representing the people (14 percent), government spending (11 percent) and unemployment and the economy (8 percent).

All three of those that I marked in bold involve money (at least money is typically the reason I hear complaints on the health care reform)...so?

[Razgovory]

Yeah, and you know what?  Everything about the fucking government involves money.  Money is single biggest factor in politics because governments run on money rather then say, candy or warm feelings.  If they said their major issue was the preserving the one eyed pocket trout the lives in one stream in Utah, it'd involve money.

[merithyn]

The Tea Party Platform

I'm pretty sure that blogger is not the guy who gets to write the official platform for them. 

How far off is it? Seems to hit the majority of things I've heard Tea Partiers talk about.