The Nobel Peace Prize goes to ...

[Syt]

Damn, even the pinkiest of you Euros are some xenophobic motherfuckers when it comes to Turkey.  Stop the hate.

I can see how people become unfavorably disposed to religious conservative country hicks coming to the big cities in droves. Mind you, if the Turkish immigration to Europe came from Western Turkey or Istanbul there would be hardly any problems.

Imagine Seattle having a 10% share of conservative, traditionalist folks from West Virginia or similar who after two or three generations still don't integrate well, with generation 3 often still struggling with the main language.

In fact, some of the challenges are similar to the Hispanic immigration into the U.S., I guess.

[PDH]

In fact, some of the challenges are similar to the Hispanic immigration into the U.S., I guess.

3rd generation Mexican immigrants are almost always monolingual in English here.  (excepting border regions where there is a strong bi-lingual emphasis)

I can't think of any immigrant group since the 19th century that hasn't become English-only speakers by the third generation.

[Valmy]

The EU's not just about finance charges and interest rates;  it's still an organization of nation states with a vested interest in collective security, even before the Berlin conference.

But, since it's not a military organization, it doesn't deserve a peace prize then.  They should endorse the reward check and deposit it to NATO's account to cover the lack of GDP commitment spending most of them still don't meet.

I have been arguing since the late 90s (back when people cared enough about the EU to talk about it alot) that the EU needed to unite Europe's military and diplomacy and be a real military alliance in order to really have legitimacy...well that and be more democratic.  But that would destroy the nation states really.  Which is why the EU will never be a big success as anything but an economic union (and probably not even that) since that will never happen.  And since when do you have to be a military organization to get the Nobel Peace Prize?  Doctors Without Borders cannot exactly project force.

Ah yes, the arms embargo and other associated platitudes.

Yeah ok key events that were primary movers in the way things unfolded are not platitudes.

Did wonders to stop the shelling of civilians and mass graves.

You know what would have done wonders to stop the shelling of civilians and mass graves?  Guns for the Bosniaks.

And none of them were willing to stand next to Tony Blair, who was the only leader over there that had the balls to say this shit doesn't happen in Europe anymore.

Yeah I guess I missed the massive British intervention.

Filty Serbs didn't start fucking dying and Europeans wouldn't drop a single bomb until NATO (read: the United States) agreed to come along for the ride.

Well the Croat Army also helped.  Also the Bosniaks did eventually scrounge up enough guns to start fighting back.  But yeah for the most part the EU countries did not do much beyond donating troops to the UN efforts.

They have everything to do with it.   I believe the OSCE still prints its own stationery.

The EU lacks the power, authority, and legitimacy to do anything about things like Bosnia and Kosovo.  They are even less able to than the Article of Confederation US government was able to deal with the secession of Vermont.  At least the Congress was supposed to handle things like that, they simply lacked the ability to.  The EU does not even have a mandate.

[Valmy]

In fact, some of the challenges are similar to the Hispanic immigration into the U.S., I guess.

Not really.  The Hispanics are Westerners with the Western religion and beliefs.  They are just a bit more old school than most Americans and speak and look a little different.  But they integrate just like every other immigrant group.

[CountDeMoney]

Ah yes, the arms embargo and other associated platitudes.

Yeah ok key events that were primary movers in the way things unfolded are not platitudes.

Did wonders to stop the shelling of civilians and mass graves.

You know what would have done wonders to stop the shelling of civilians and mass graves?  Guns for the Bosniaks.

Which is why I called them platitudes.  Useless.

The EU lacks the power, authority, and legitimacy to do anything about things like Bosnia and Kosovo.

They possess as much power, authority and legitimacy as they choose to have.   Which is none, because they're a collection of neutered weenies that can't take care of their own back yard without Uncle Sam kicking them in the ass.  It doesn't have to be that way:  the EU can do more.

[The Brain]

In fact, some of the challenges are similar to the Hispanic immigration into the U.S., I guess.

3rd generation Mexican immigrants are almost always monolingual in English here.  (excepting border regions where there is a strong bi-lingual emphasis)

Border regions? The Montana border?

[Syt]

the EU can do more.

Unfortunately, its member states are very strongly against ceding additional competencies to Brussels. Many people see the EU as a bureaucratic mess that wastes money and doesn't get anything useful done.

[garbon]

the EU can do more.

Unfortunately, its member states are very strongly against ceding additional competencies to Brussels. Many people see the EU as a bureaucratic mess that wastes money and doesn't get anything useful done.

Except apparently - peace.

[CountDeMoney]

Many people see the EU as a bureaucratic mess that wastes money and doesn't get anything useful done.

Unfortunately, that's the view from over here as well.

[Valmy]

Which is why I called them platitudes.  Useless.

That makes no sense.

They possess as much power, authority and legitimacy as they choose to have.   Which is none, because they're a collection of neutered weenies that can't take care of their own back yard without Uncle Sam kicking them in the ass.  It doesn't have to be that way:  the EU can do more.

Right the states of Europe went out to create a confederation without any power and then were shocked when this organization was able to achieve little.  Also they were mad that the EU was undemoctratic after they decided to make it undemocratic.  The EU is basically what the US would be if we kept the Articles of Confederation around.

[Barrister]

Damn, even the pinkiest of you Euros are some xenophobic motherfuckers when it comes to Turkey.  Stop the hate.

I can see how people become unfavorably disposed to religious conservative country hicks coming to the big cities in droves. Mind you, if the Turkish immigration to Europe came from Western Turkey or Istanbul there would be hardly any problems.

Imagine Seattle having a 10% share of conservative, traditionalist folks from West Virginia or similar who after two or three generations still don't integrate well, with generation 3 often still struggling with the main language.

In fact, some of the challenges are similar to the Hispanic immigration into the U.S., I guess.

Except for your example to apply, those third generation west virginians would have to be denied Washington State citizenship, despite being born there...

Canada doesn't get a lot of Turkish immigrants.  But we get a lot of iranian and pakistani immigrants.  And by the third generation they're very well assimilated.  Hell the second generation is well assimilated.

[Cecil]

To even mention the A word would brand you racist here.

[Valmy]

To even mention the A word would brand you racist here.

Keeping them in a cultural ghetto is far more racist.  Since, you know, one of the ways racism works is you refuse certain groups the ability to assimilate.  How in the world is assimilation racist?

[Viking]

While The leader of the Norwegian Nobel Comittee Thorbjørn Jagland was the leader of the European Movement (the organisation trying to get norway to vote yes in the referendum about joining in 1994) he called on the EU to get the peace prize; he now was able to give it to them himself.

The man is scum, but he is right about the EU.

[The Brain]

To even mention the A word would brand you racist here.

Keeping them in a cultural ghetto is far more racist.  Since, you know, one of the ways racism works is you refuse certain groups the ability to assimilate.  How in the world is assimilation racist?

THEIR CULTURE IS LOVELY DAMMIT