Shut up and play nice: How the Western world is limiting free speech

Started by jimmy olsen, October 14, 2012, 08:44:36 PM

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Richard Hakluyt


Martinus

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 15, 2012, 02:10:53 AM
Free speech does not really prevail in the UK anymore.

Has it ever prevailed, though? I mean, you guys had blasphemy trials (and banned movies) still in the 60s/70s, then came up with Section 28, then smoothly moved into political correctness madness.

Viking

blasphemy, discrimination, hate, mendacity.

The author is wrong.

blasphemy - ok, not about everything... There is an islamic attempt to impose (or re-active) blasphemy laws in the west to force us to observe islamic standards of reverence when talking about Mohammed ibn Abdullah. In some countries there is PC pressure to give way but France, Denmark and other countries have absolutely supported the absolute freedom of speech (at least when it comes to criticizing religion). It takes a weak and weasly politician to try and pass such laws. Philosophically for me this is an issue of individual rights vs group rights. It doesn't surprise me that both the religious and socialist parties support this since both prefer group identity to individuality.

discrimination - this makes no sense. Calling somebody a jew or a nigger or a kyke or fag or a belgian is not discrimination. Using a racial epithet is not discrimination. Firing somebody because he is a jew, nigger, kyke, fag or belgian is discrimination. I think the way that the american black community has experienced the changing use of epithets nigger-coloured-black-afroamerican-african-american etc. just goes to show that the word used doesn't matter, it is the purpose to which the word is used viz. modern use of the word nigger.

hate - "using free speech to incite hate, discrimination or violence" just unpack that for a bit. Using words to encourage somebody to commit crime is a crime. Why do we need to focus on the speech bit? Why can't we focus on the crime bit? Inciting violence is an action using words, it is not merely speech. Conflating the freedom to act when speech is involved with the freedom of speech just muddies and confuses the issue while it gives ammunition to the enemies of free speech.

mendacity - like with hate, you are not prohibited from lying, the law is there to prevent fraud and theft. Ban those, not the speech related.

If we are harming free speech it is because we are confusing the central issue with periferal ones (just because you use speech in your action doesn't mean the action is illegal) and the fundamental philosophical one (the conflict between individual and group rights).
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.